Oline and WRs

[Pete]

Right now our defense is looking really nice. Allen/McCarron is the best depth chart in decades.  And Shady is Shady.  I like the Ray Ray pick and think he will be a factor at WR and most definitely as a returner.  But Benjamin-Zay-Ray Ray-Kerley is lacking a true #1.  Dion-Miller-Groy-Vlad-Mills is scary though.  My guess is we add a oline starter after roster cut downs and post June 1.  What is the plan at oline and WR?  Who starts?

 

There is some depth on this team now.  And we got a lot younger.  The future is bright for the Bills.  The Sabres winning the lottery just might be the confirmation that Buffalo is on the up and up!

[Hebert19]

I want maclin

[Wayne Cubed]

I think you are underestimating Teller on the OL, he’s got a really good shot of starting, he was easily a top 50 pick in 2017. The Bills got a steal because a little bit of a down year, although he was still top 10 in both pass and run production.

 

Im hoping it’s:

 

Dawkins-Teller-Groy/Bodine-Miller-McDermott

 

This line isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Wayne Cubed

[whatdrought]

13 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think you are underestimating Teller on the OL, he’s got a really good shot of starting, he was easily a top 50 pick in 2017. The Bills got a steal because a little bit of a down year, although he was still top 10 in both pass and run production.

 

Im hoping it’s:

 

Dawkins-Teller-Groy/Bodine-Miller-McDermott

 

This line isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

 

Im really hoping Miller bounces back In a more power based scheme. It sounds like the issues Teller had last year were related to scheme and that he is a bully, so a more power base will help him as well.

[Wayne Cubed]

9 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Im really hoping Miller bounces back In a more power based scheme. It sounds like the issues Teller had last year were related to scheme and that he is a bully, so a more power base will help him as well.

 

Yea and I guess he(Teller) had a bit of a falling out with the staff. The guy is a beast. 

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

55 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think you are underestimating Teller on the OL, he’s got a really good shot of starting, he was easily a top 50 pick in 2017. The Bills got a steal because a little bit of a down year, although he was still top 10 in both pass and run production.

 

Im hoping it’s:

 

Dawkins-Teller-Groy/Bodine-Miller-McDermott

 

This line isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

As long as Ducasse and Mills aren't involved AJ/Allen and McCoy have a chance against a decent front 7.

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, Bills Fan of Maryland said:

As long as Ducasse and Mills aren't involved AJ/Allen and McCoy have a chance against a decent front 7.

 

My gosh, I hope they get pushed to the bench. Although as much as it pains me to say, Ducasse wasn’t that bad the second half of the season ??‍♂️

[MarlinTheMagician]

And as much as I hate to say it - McDermott keeps identifying Mills as a leader.  Save San Diego, I thought he was better.  Perhaps he can become adequate?  And if not, maybe McDermott can take his job.  Dawkins - Teller/Groy - Bodine-Groy - Miller - Mills/McDermott does not strike me as horrific.  How is the FA they signed, Newhouse I think is his name?  Is he a player that could give Mills competition?

[swnybillsfan]

3 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I think you are underestimating Teller on the OL, he’s got a really good shot of starting, he was easily a top 50 pick in 2017. The Bills got a steal because a little bit of a down year, although he was still top 10 in both pass and run production.

 

Im hoping it’s:

 

Dawkins-Teller-Groy/Bodine-Miller-McDermott

 

This line isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

i will also be interested to see if miller can bounce back. and i really like the teller pick. the knock is that for whatever reason, he was not himself this year. if anyone can reach him, i billieve it is McDermott...the coach. McDermott the ot intrigues me because he is friggin' uuuuuuge!

[The Now Moment]

4 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

My gosh, I hope they get pushed to the bench. Although as much as it pains me to say, Ducasse wasn’t that bad the second half of the season ??‍♂️

Why would a player getting/playing better make it painful to say?  That's a positive thing

[Rc2catch]

Why is receiver sooooo worried about? 

Benjamin may have injury issues but he’s a legit #1 when healthy. Has anyone ever watched Carolina? And how their teams are built..?

pound the rock pound the rock.. Benjamin was a great receiver there when he was on the field and Greg Olsen got tons of targets every game. 

We are a running team, plain and simple.

that could change in the future if AJ or Allen show they can run a high octane passing attack. But we are a ball control clock control run team who plays punishing defense. 

We don’t need legit top tier receivers cause we won’t be throwing 40 times a game. 

If/when their strategy works you’re talking 20-25 passes a game. Benjamin Clay shady O’Leary will be handling a lot of those targets. 

Bring in Dez? Marlin? For what? Decoy? Dez wants 20 targets for himself a game lol he would freak out here “blocking” all game and getting 2 targets. 

[Pete]

3rd and 15- who is catching the ball?

 

[QB12]

@ 3rd & 15

 

Clay's capable of making some clutch catches. Same for Benjamin... hopefully these guys stay healthy.

[Magnum Force]

Anyone like the idea of Dez or Eric Decker?  I am not sure if Dez is a McDermott type of guy but he would be a nice addition if he was willing to come here.

[bobobonators]

2 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:

Anyone like the idea of Dez or Eric Decker?  I am not sure if Dez is a McDermott type of guy but he would be a nice addition if he was willing to come here.

 

Dez does not strike me as a McD kinda guy. And hes an average receiver at this point. Bad combo. 

[Magnum Force]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

 

Dez does not strike me as a McD kinda guy. And hes an average receiver at this point. Bad combo. 

Yes but right now our Receiving core is average at best and that is being generous. 

[McNubbins]

Oline is my biggest concern.  If you watch Josh Allen at the senior bowl, where he performed really well, he mostly had a clean pocket.  I hope that by the time he is starting we have an oline that can give him a chance to do what he does best.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:05 AM, Rc2catch said:

Why is receiver sooooo worried about? 

Benjamin may have injury issues but he’s a legit #1 when healthy. Has anyone ever watched Carolina? And how their teams are built..?

pound the rock pound the rock.. Benjamin was a great receiver there when he was on the field and Greg Olsen got tons of targets every game. 

We are a running team, plain and simple.

that could change in the future if AJ or Allen show they can run a high octane passing attack. But we are a ball control clock control run team who plays punishing defense. 

We don’t need legit top tier receivers cause we won’t be throwing 40 times a game. 

If/when their strategy works you’re talking 20-25 passes a game. Benjamin Clay shady O’Leary will be handling a lot of those targets. 

Bring in Dez? Marlin? For what? Decoy? Dez wants 20 targets for himself a game lol he would freak out here “blocking” all game and getting 2 targets. 

 

A young QB's best friends are a stout OL and a stout running game

But when he does throw, his next best friend are at least 2 legit top tier receivers who can gain separation and haul in those errant throws.

 

What gave you the notion that only matters if you throw 40 times a game?

 

1 hour ago, McNubbins said:

Oline is my biggest concern.  If you watch Josh Allen at the senior bowl, where he performed really well, he mostly had a clean pocket.  I hope that by the time he is starting we have an oline that can give him a chance to do what he does best.

 

Agreed.  Some of our posters here think the O Line is not as bad as I think.  I hope they're right.

[Turk71]

On 4/29/2018 at 3:45 PM, MarlinTheMagician said:

And as much as I hate to say it - McDermott keeps identifying Mills as a leader.  Save San Diego, I thought he was better.  Perhaps he can become adequate?  And if not, maybe McDermott can take his job.  Dawkins - Teller/Groy - Bodine-Groy - Miller - Mills/McDermott does not strike me as horrific.  How is the FA they signed, Newhouse I think is his name?  Is he a player that could give Mills competition?

Fwiw Newhouse and Bodine graded on Pff as two of the worst linemen available in fa. 

[thunderingsquid]

I sincerely hope that we add both an o lineman and a wr before training camp ends.  I don't think Beane is done.  I also think that Foster will have a surprisingly good camp.

Edited May 5, 2018 by thunderingsquid

[PIZ]

Anyone know who the potential June 1 cuts are at oline and wr?

 

 

[Adam727]

I'd rather keep both positions the way they are.  If they can trade for a young player on a cheap contract at WR or OG I'd be open to that.  But NO big name free agents please.  The Bills aren't going to the playoffs this year anyway.  and Bryant/Maclin aren't going to change that.  Let's take the opportunity to see what we have in Groy, Miller, Bodine, Newhouse,  Zay, and the rookies we just drafted at WR & OG.  Save the salary cap space for the future and address both positions aggressively next year if needed.

[Aussie Joe]

Oline biggest worry for me..

 

Bodine and Newhouse both have that journeyman look about them and their campaigns in 2017 were nothing to write home about based on what I have read since they got picked up...

 

Hoping they are depth at best in 2018...

 

Best case scenario is Groy building on what he showed in 2016, and McDermott stepping up to secure the RT spot- there has been some buzz that the team is pretty high on him..

 

I would also add Teller being an immeadiate starter at LG but that is asking for too much.., more likely Beane picks up a solid post June cut on a reasonable 1 year deal... 

[LeGOATski]

They're gonna try to play great defense and run a lot this year. Let Allen come along at his own pace.

 

Then land a #1 WR next year.

[Domdab99]

OL is going to be fine...I think it’s going to be sneaky good this year. 

 

WR...you got me. Sign Jerry Rice?

[SoTier]

It's highly unlikely that either the OL or the WRs "will be fine" despite all the whistling past the graveyard.

 

The Bills have a decent LT, a journeyman RT, and a black hole in the interior of the OL.  They are depending upon a backup and a rookie to replace a solid OC.  They are hoping that 1 of the 2 RGs who struggled last season can step up and play better.  AFAIK, they have only a name penciled in at LG to replace a Pro Bowl LG.  This is easily the worst pre-season OL the Bills have had since 2009.  They're depending upon backups to replace good starters, and didn't add any depth.

 

The WR unit stunk last season with 1 NFL-caliber WR (Benjamin) on the roster, and he only arrived in mid-season, and was hurt for much of his time with the Bills.   Jones was a bust, and will have to have a major turn around to even merit a starting spot on this poor unit.  All the others are STers or street FAs.  What have the Bills done to improve their WRs?   Nothing.  AJ McCarron isn't Tom Brady who can make useful WRs out of rookies and street FAs, and if Josh Allen has the misfortune to see the field (which seems likely because of the crappy OL), he's likely doomed.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm really afraid that the Bills are going to struggle to score on offense even more than they did last year, which doesn't bode well for them winning many games. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by SoTier

[Magnum Force]

How about either Luke Joekel or Greg Robinson as a reclamation project?  Both are young and highly touted out of college but haven't been able to put it together at the pro level.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Magnum Force

[SoTier]

17 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:

How about either Luke Joekel or Greg Robinson as a reclamation project?  Both are young and highly touted out of college but haven't been able to put it together at the pro level.

 

Both are OTs which is not nearly as pressing a need as OC/OG, but the Bills could use upgrades at both OTs just for depth.  I'm not sure that the Bills can afford Joekel or Robinson, though, especially as depth players.  Established OLers, even when they're busts, are old, and/or injury-prone are expensive in FA.   Another concern is that Dawkins being only a sophomore,  he's not exactly a sure thing.  He wouldn't be the first kid to have an impressive rookie season and then fail to play up to that standard again.   The Bills may rue the day that they traded away Cordy Glenn, especially if Allen doesn't work out.

Edited May 5, 2018 by SoTier

[Magnum Force]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Both are OTs which is not nearly as pressing a need as OC/OG, but the Bills could use upgrades at both OTs just for depth.  I'm not sure that the Bills can afford Joekel or Robinson, though, especially as depth players.  Established OLers, even when they're busts, are old, and/or injury-prone are expensive in FA.   Another concern is that Dawkins being only a sophomore,  he's not exactly a sure thing.  He wouldn't be the first kid to have an impressive rookie season and then fail to play up to that standard again.   The Bills may rue the day that they traded away Cordy Glenn, especially if Allen doesn't work out.

Didn't Joekel also play guard in Seattle?

[Rc2catch]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A young QB's best friends are a stout OL and a stout running game

But when he does throw, his next best friend are at least 2 legit top tier receivers who can gain separation and haul in those errant throws.

 

What gave you the notion that only matters if you throw 40 times a game?

 

 

Agreed.  Some of our posters here think the O Line is not as bad as I think.  I hope they're right.

 

My point was you don’t need 2 legit top tier receivers because there’s not enough targets to go around if you don’t throw a lot. For the offense they are gonna run Benjamin Clay and shady will eat 85% of the targets. O’Leary has shown flashes in the passing game and most of us expect a little jump in production from Zay. There are plenty of weapons for the style they wanna play. Very few teams have let alone need 2 top tier receivers 

[JoeF]

The GM is not denying there are still needs.  He won't fill them with anything but 1-year deals unless someone comes to market in a need position that has a future.  That would be rare -- but the Bills are in a position to back-end load a contract.  I think the end of next week will bring some vets to market to add to the ones already there in positions of need.

[MrEpsYtown]

6 hours ago, Magnum Force said:

Didn't Joekel also play guard in Seattle?

Yes he's a guard now and Robinson was tried there as well. Joeckel is a great fit for what we do imo. He actually played pretty well in Seattle before he got hurt, and he should come cheap at this point. 

[Magnum Force]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yes he's a guard now and Robinson was tried there as well. Joeckel is a great fit for what we do imo. He actually played pretty well in Seattle before he got hurt, and he should come cheap at this point. 

I feel the same way about Joekel....and like you said, he should come at a pretty reasonable price.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Magnum Force

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, Magnum Force said:

Didn't Joekel also play guard in Seattle?

 

Joeckel wasn't impressive at Tackle but his more to Guard seems to fit him better.

 

Dawkins - 11 Starts

Groy - 11 Starts (7 of them 2 years ago)

McDermott - 0 Starts

Teller - 0 Starts

Playing too many of these young guys together will be a problem.

 

Don't be surprised if the starting OL to begin the season is:

Dawkins

Groy

Bodine

Ducasse

Mills/Newhouse

 

The younger guys will get looks during the season.

 

 

[Magnum Force]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Joeckel wasn't impressive at Tackle but his more to Guard seems to fit him better.

 

 

Ball park figure....what do you think it would cost to sign him and what term?

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:

Ball park figure....what do you think it would cost to sign him and what term?

 

Spotrac and other were thinking he wanted 7 million or so per year to start FA.

No one touched him for that.

Seattle paid him 8 last year.

 

Maybe a 2 year 12 million or so could get him.  I'm not sure if teams would think that's too much.

[Magnum Force]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Spotrac and other were thinking he wanted 7 million or so per year to start FA.

No one touched him for that.

Seattle paid him 8 last year.

 

Maybe a 2 year 12 million or so could get him.  I'm not sure if teams would think that's too much.

Yes no or maybe at 10 to 12 million over 2 years?

Edited May 5, 2018 by Magnum Force

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:

Yes no or maybe at 10 to 12 million over 2 years?

 

I truly couldn't say but it doesn't sound unreasonable.

One would think they should bring him in for a visit at least.

It's one of the threads I look for every time I log in.

[SoTier]

33 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yes he's a guard now and Robinson was tried there as well. Joeckel is a great fit for what we do imo. He actually played pretty well in Seattle before he got hurt, and he should come cheap at this point. 

 

If he can play guard even decently, then I'm for bringing him in.  He'd be an instant upgrade at LG (where there's no legit starter) and possibly at RG as well.

[Pete]

My guess is Richie returns.  The dude loves football and he does not want to miss out playing with the up and coming Bills.  Richie was due $7.9 million I believe, but restructured.   He then fired his agent.  As is, Richie has zero leverage.  And he is costing himself millions this year by retiring.  Next year he is a free agent, he could set himself up for one last big payday if he plays well this year.  Richie likes money.  If Richie does return- Dawkins-Richie-Groy-Vlad-Mills is a returning line somewhat.  Not world beaters, but hopefully sufficient.  Miller-Bodine-McDermott-Newhouse-Teller-Redmond is great depth and could contend for starting.  This will be interesting camp battle.  And we will see who else is added to mix