Beane & McDermott Address the Buffalo Media after Round 1

[DisplacedBillsFan]

A top QB prospect and a day one starter at LB. Fantastic job in this draft so far!

 

[Ayjent]

5 hours ago, BeefCurtns said:

Ok. Ive heard enough of your whining. Explain how we would stocked the cupboard if we took Rosen at the same spot ? They had Edmunds high on their board and went and got him before someone else did. You don't know Jack or shyt about how Allen will do yet or Rosen for that matter. Your opinion and your entitled to it but listen to yourself.

Dude I’m losing no sleep over a silly game played that I watch on TV as a distraction for a couple of hours.  Whining?  Okay.  I watch a lot of football because I enjoy the strategy of the game and you can easily spot good players in college if you just pay attention.  They did a lot of maneuvering with draft picks but to me it looks like they made a lot of moves and passed up a lot of players to get extra picks and then undid all of that to get two boom or bust prospects.  Just looks like they made bad moves and I’m pointing it out.  I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but it’s just what I see.  We’ll see what I know, but I’ll gladly praise Beane if he got it right.  I doubt he did, though.  

 

Also they didn’t need to jump anyone to get Edmunds most likely, no one else was looking for a LB ahead them.  And he’s a bit of a risky prospect because of his youth - the history of NFL players drafted that young isn’t great.  Could be a really good pick, but still a risky one.  I didnt mind them moving up for the QB pick, and I figured Tampa made sense as an NFC team that didn’t need a QB. Didn’t want Allen to be the pick though.  He wasn’t impressive on the field and there isn’t much else to discuss about him other than some hope in his potential - because there isn’t much of a history of consistent good play from him.  Rosen had his flags as well, but is a much better passer and I thought that was what the team needed.  Not another inconsistent, inaccurate athlete.

[billsherd]

7 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So you mean they won't walk of the bus as  starters?

[26TrapDraw]

5 minutes ago, Ayjent said:

Dude I’m losing no sleep over a silly game played that I watch on TV as a distraction for a couple of hours.  Whining?  Okay.  I watch a lot of football because I enjoy the strategy of the game and you can easily spot good players in college if you just pay attention.  They did a lot of maneuvering with draft picks but to me it looks like they made a lot of moves and passed up a lot of players to get extra picks and then undid all of that to get two boom or bust prospects.  Just looks like they made bad moves and I’m pointing it out.  I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but it’s just what I see.  We’ll see what I know, but I’ll gladly praise Beane if he got it right.  I doubt he did, though.  

 

Also they didn’t need to jump anyone to get Edmunds most likely, no one else was looking for a LB ahead them.  And he’s a bit of a risky prospect because of his youth - the history of NFL players drafted that young isn’t great.  Could be a really good pick, but still a risky one.  I didnt mind them moving up for the QB pick, and I figured Tampa made sense as an NFC team that didn’t need a QB. Didn’t want Allen to be the pick though.  He wasn’t impressive on the field and there isn’t much else to discuss about him other than some hope in his potential - because there isn’t much of a history of consistent good play from him.  Rosen had his flags as well, but is a much better passer and I thought that was what the team needed.  Not another inconsistent, inaccurate athlete.

Why didn't you say that in the first place ?

[26CornerBlitz]

MCDERMOTT: "YOU LOOK FOR GUYS WHO CAN MAKE PLAYS" (19:51)
Bills general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott talk about selecting quarterback Josh Allen and linebacker Tremaine Edmunds in the first round of the NFL Draft.

[cd1]

7 hours ago, Sherman said:

Im only hearing the EJ comparisons on Bills boards. Everywhere else compares him to Rothlisberger, Wentz and Newton. As a Bills fan I get that we all want to think negatively right away but the potential is there.

 

He was also talked about as the biggest boom or bust guy so maybe all the comparisons are good. Only time will tell if it’s the good comparisons or EJ. 

How many times do you burn yourself on a stove BEFORE you learn NOT to touch it?

 

I liked EJ and it bothered me when folks knocked his accuracy by referring to him "hitting the big tents at training camp".  

 

ACCURACY - Someone PLEASE name one NFL player who came in and overcame "Inaccuracy".

 

At least EJ Manuel played for a respected "football" school. This info on Wiki is just frightening...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Allen_(quarterback)

[Ayjent]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

It is the giving up assets for a “maybe” prospect in Allen, that is the issue. If Allen fails the entire

fan base, and league will say “I told

you so” And we will have dipleated the roster to do so. 

 

Allen has to turn out and show tons of promise in the next 3 years or the McBeane are toast. We cleared our entire scouting staff, LT, CB1, and gave away our DT1. This QB needed to hit. 

 

... Allen HAS TO HIT

Yeah that’s a good summary of the problem with the two 1st round picks, no room for error, and less players to save your ass if you screw one up.  

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

MCDERMOTT: "YOU LOOK FOR GUYS WHO CAN MAKE PLAYS" (19:51)
Bills general manager Brandon Beane and head coach Sean McDermott talk about selecting quarterback Josh Allen and linebacker Tremaine Edmunds in the first round of the NFL Draft.

Ah the good ol’ players that can make plays playing football.  I’m glad that is what they are looking for.  In other news employers are looking for employees that can work.  

Edited April 27, 2018 by Ayjent

[Carmel Corn]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

These types of posts are the most unnecessary and useless of all posts on messages anywhere. You're telling us to wait and see, it could be better than it appears on it's face. Enlightening.

 

Sure it could be, but it probably won't. I'm not interested in waiting 3 years to talk about whether or not this was a bad move. If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant. It was a bad move TODAY. They shouldn't be given a pass if they get lucky and the kid doesn't suck. He sucked in college, badly. history suggests he'll suck in the pros. The Bills had countless chances over the last 2 drafts to grab far more accomplished prospects, and instead they sell the farm for a kid from a farm, that still belongs on a farm. Allen at 12 would have been bad enough, Allen + two high second round picks is inexcusable.
 

It was true in 2008 and a decade later it's still true: http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135

 

Simply crap!

 

[NewEraBills]

6 hours ago, bobobonators said:

 

Thats fine. But comparisons of Rosen to Aaron Rodgers are kosher. 

 

I never compared them so I'm not sure the relevance 

 

[Gigs]

9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He’s gonna love the Cheektowaga racist

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Yeah that’s a good summary of the problem with the two 1st round picks, no room for error, and less players to save your ass if you screw one up.  

Ah the good ol’ players that can make plays playing football.  I’m glad that is what they are looking for.  In other news employers are looking for employees that can work.  

 

I was referring to trading guys like Glenn and Darby. Not first round picks. 

[707BillsFan]

9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

And his name is AJ McCarron. Using your brain doesn't hurt as much as you might think.

All I see is blah, blah, blah, I just want to be a miserable Bills fan. 

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant.

 

That is what you just wrote.  Do you not understand what the draft is all about?

 

I would have liked Rosen more, but that kind of critique is just silly.

 

The draft is about capturing value and getting elite talent otherwise inaccessible via free agency. Allen neither represents value or elite talent.

 

If you spend your entire life savings on powerball tickets it's a terrible investment even if you get lucky. The guy that makes solid investment moves over a lifetime will always come out ahead. That's the point.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The draft is about capturing value and getting elite talent otherwise inaccessible via free agency. Allen neither represents value or elite talent.

 

If you spend your entire life savings on powerball tickets it's a terrible investment even if you get lucky. The guy that makes solid investment moves over a lifetime will always come out ahead. That's the point.

 

 

No it's not.  The point is that you have no way of knowing whether any guy picked last night or tonight or tomorrow ultimately work out or not.  That is why you cannot judge things right now.  He could very well be an elite talent.  So could Rosen.  Or Allen could be and Rosen not.  Or vice versa.  Or they could both not pan out.  As for value, if he leads us to the playoffs and becomes our QB for the next 12 years, that is tremendous value.  There are way to many folks arounfd mhere that think they are Nostradamus-like when it comes to players.

 

Your statement that it doesn't matter if he becomes a star in several years or not, that it would not affect your judgment of the pick, simply defies any sense of logic or defies any idea of what drafts are meant to accomplish.

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No it's not.  The point is that you have no way of knowing whether any guy picked last night or tonight or tomorrow ultimately work out or not.  That is why you cannot judge things right now.  He could very well be an elite talent.  So could Rosen.  Or Allen could be and Rosen not.  Or vice versa.  Or they could both not pan out.  As for value, if he leads us to the playoffs and becomes our QB for the next 12 years, that is tremendous value.  There are way to many folks arounfd mhere that think they are Nostradamus-like when it comes to players.

 

Your statement that it doesn't matter if he becomes a star in several years or not, that it would not affect your judgment of the pick, simply defies any sense of logic or defies any idea of what drafts are meant to accomplish.

 

Go ahead and drop your life savings on powerball tickets then. It will be a brilliant investment strategy if it works.

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

The draft is about capturing value and getting elite talent otherwise inaccessible via free agency. Allen neither represents value or elite talent.

 

If you spend your entire life savings on powerball tickets it's a terrible investment even if you get lucky. The guy that makes solid investment moves over a lifetime will always come out ahead. That's the point.

 

The draft is about getting talent, period.  If you can get value, it's a bonus. 

 

And the better analogy would be buy 1,000 shares of a stock at $1 when you possibly could have gotten it at $.80, and seeing it go to $100/share.  Is the $200 difference worth complaining about when you still have $100K?

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The draft is about getting talent, period.  If you can get value, it's a bonus. 

 

And the better analogy would be buy 1,000 shares of a stock at $1 when you possibly could have gotten it at $.80, and seeing it go to $100/share.  Is the $200 difference worth complaining about when you still have $100K?

 

When all historical data suggests that something will be a bust, it's usually a bad idea to go all in at a premium price.

 

I've been scouring NFL history and records for a raw cannon armed inaccurate and unpolished QB that fixed it all and went on to great things and I cant find one. Not a single one.

 

There are a lot of small accurate, smart players that improved arm strength, though.

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Go ahead and drop your life savings on powerball tickets then. It will be a brilliant investment strategy if it works.

Your analogy makes no sense.  We all know what the odds are of Powerball and we all know the ROI on the market, and we know which is a better choice.  Why?  Because we know the history of each; we actually have seen performance.  You have not seen one guy from this draft perform in the NFL yet. 

 

Your lack of understanding of such a simple concept is somewhat alarming.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Your analogy makes no sense.  We all know what the odds are of Powerball and we all know the ROI on the market, and we know which is a better choice.  Why?  Because we know the history of each; we actually have seen performance.  You have not seen one guy from this draft perform in the NFL yet. 

 

Your lack of understanding of such a simple concept is somewhat alarming.

Historic data, friendo. You're betting on a thing that's never happened in modern NFL history to happen. Good luck.

Edited April 27, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[oldmanfan]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Historic data, friendo.

Which you have not shown.  Plus your predicate that he is inaccurate is flawed, because you likely look at one data point and don't consider others like the type of throws, etc.

 

I would have liked to have seen Rosen picked.  But the statement that even if any player becomes a star still means it was a bad pick just truly defies any sense of logic.

[Mat68]

23 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

When all historical data suggests that something will be a bust, it's usually a bad idea to go all in at a premium price.

 

I've been scouring NFL history and records for a raw cannon armed inaccurate and unpolished QB that fixed it all and went on to great things and I cant find one. Not a single one.

 

There are a lot of small accurate, smart players that improved arm strength, though.

What is this historical data?  Qbr, completion %?  Are we only talking recent history or NFL history?  Its easy to paint stats in an effort to determine future outcomes that meet pre determined outcomes and biases.

 

Tell me a Qb who succeed in the NFL with poor passer rating and completion %?  Farve.  No you cant use Farve he was drafted 30 years ago.  Well Allen has the best arm in 30 years?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mat68

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

What is this historical data?  Qbr, completion %?  Are we only talking recent history or NFL history?  Its easy to paint stats in an effort to determine future outcomes that meet pre determined outcomes and biases.

 

I cant find a single example of a strong armed inaccurate college QB prospect that resolved his accuracy issues in the pros and found success. I'm talking 80's+

 

In fact nearly all successful NFL QBs posted 60%+ in college. Allen is 2 points or worse below every decent QB I've found at 56%.

 

I'd love to find an example. Help me change my mind. Help me find a player he could morph into. Ben Roethlisberger completed 65% in college so comparisons between him and Allen are about as accurate as Peyton Manning and Favre.

 

Of the 30+ good/great QBs I researched, none improved their college accuracy by more than a couple points besides Drew Brees and his numbers were already great.

 

That's my data - what's yours?

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I cant find a single example of a strong armed inaccurate college QB prospect that resolved his accuracy issues in the pros and found success. I'm talking 80's+

 

In fact nearly all successful NFL QBs posted 60%+ in college. Allen is 2 points or worse below every decent QB I've found at 56%.

 

I'd love to find an example. Help me change my mind. Help me find a player he could morph into. Ben Roethlisberger completed 65% in college so comparisons between him and Allen are about as accurate as Peyton Manning and Favre.

 

Of the 30+ good/great QBs I researched, none improved their college accuracy by more than a couple points besides Drew Brees and his numbers were already great.

 

That's my data - what's yours?

Farve

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mat68

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Farve

 

I'll be damned. Favre it is. I'm actually really happy to have that. Let's hope on the scale of Boller -> Favre he skews the right way.

Edited April 27, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I'll be damned. Favre it is. I'm actually really happy to have that. Let's hope on the scale of Boller -> Favre he skews the right way.

That we agree on

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

I'll be damned. Favre it is. I'm actually really happy to have that. Let's hope on the scale of Boller -> Favre he skews the right way.

Boller was actually much worst.  He was under 50% Marino was much worst but that is nearly 40 years ago.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mat68

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Boller was actually much worst.  He was under 50% Marino was much worst but that is nearly 40 years ago.

 Marino was better and he raised his accuracy less than 2% which seems to be the best you can reasonably expect.

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting that Beane and McDermott called a bunch of Bills players and asked them if they had any problem with drafting Allen because of the tweets. Obviously the players had no real objections. I like that they did that although I didn't think the tweets were a deal breaker myself. 

[dakrider]

so for all those who are so enamored with college completion percentage....  2 guys who had great college completion % are Kellen Moore and Tim Tebow.  I think both guys are available!   Kellen Moore was phenomenal in college, over 70%.  

John Elway completion % in college was 58% his Jr year and 64% his Sr year, but his overall NFL completion % was 57%

Brett Farve completion % in college was just over 54% his Jr & Sr years, but his overall NFL completion % was 62%

 

Trying to say either Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield's college completion percentage will determine their NFL success, is completely ridiculous.   

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, dakrider said:

so for all those who are so enamored with college completion percentage....  2 guys who had great college completion % are Kellen Moore and Tim Tebow.  I think both guys are available!   Kellen Moore was phenomenal in college, over 70%.  

John Elway completion % in college was 58% his Jr year and 64% his Sr year, but his overall NFL completion % was 57%

Brett Farve completion % in college was just over 54% his Jr & Sr years, but his overall NFL completion % was 62%

 

Trying to say either Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield's college completion percentage will determine their NFL success, is completely ridiculous.   

Moore can't play in NFL because he has a rag arm. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, dakrider said:

so for all those who are so enamored with college completion percentage....  2 guys who had great college completion % are Kellen Moore and Tim Tebow.  I think both guys are available!   Kellen Moore was phenomenal in college, over 70%.  

John Elway completion % in college was 58% his Jr year and 64% his Sr year, but his overall NFL completion % was 57%

Brett Farve completion % in college was just over 54% his Jr & Sr years, but his overall NFL completion % was 62%

 

Trying to say either Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield's college completion percentage will determine their NFL success, is completely ridiculous.   

College accuracy is not a solo indicator of pro success. College inaccuracy however is a strong and reliable indicator of failure in the Pros.

[yungmack]

McD says "you look for guys who can make plays." So how in God's name do you the take Allen over Rosen. Or over Jackson for that matter. Allen wasn't even considered the best QB in a rinky dink conference. And one of the big criticisms is that he didn't make plays when it counted! If the Bills are very, very lucky, they can" coach him up" to Kyle Boller/Jake Locker level. And to think they traded UP for him. It's just embarrassing. 

[yungmack]

14 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Allen will need to sit for the year... but they all have warts. 

No way a #7 pick should be sitting for a year. But then, no way should Allen be that pick. 

[Dkollidas]

4 minutes ago, yungmack said:

No way a #7 pick should be sitting for a year. But then, no way should Allen be that pick. 

 

Why not? Goff sat the first half of his first season.

People are raving about Mahomes, and he sat his entire first year... is it really that big a difference if they were picked 7th as opposed to 10th overall?

 

Hes obviously got raw talent that needs to be developed & refined. Just because you don’t like the pick doesn’t mean a guy should immediately start day 1 because he was picked in the first round, especially at QB. 

[Kelly the Dog]

5 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

 

Why not? Goff sat the first half of his first season.

People are raving about Mahomes, and he sat his entire first year... is it really that big a difference if they were picked 7th as opposed to 10th overall?

 

Hes obviously got raw talent that needs to be developed & refined. Just because you don’t like the pick doesn’t mean a guy should immediately start day 1 because he was picked in the first round, especially at QB. 

Mahomes was behind a 10+ year vet who lead the league in passing. 

[Dkollidas]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Mahomes was behind a 10+ year vet who lead the league in passing. 

Correct. But the point is where the development of the QB is served greatest. And that’s clearly with him on the bench for year one. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Dkollidas said:

Correct. But the point is where the development of the QB is served greatest. And that’s clearly with him on the bench for year one. 

Thats not clear at all. There are a ton of examples of guys starting right away that was the best thing for them. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

15 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I really wish we can stop with this weather nonsense. We get it, it gets cold and there is snow on the ground in the winter. Why does it have to make up the identity of our offense? This whole run the ball and drafting QBs with big hands to throw it in the swirling winds blah blah blah

 

Just once I’d like to draft a guy who is good at actually passing the ball and gets to rip it on Sundays. I foresee the next several years of being an offense that has the fewest passing attempts simply because our QBs suck at it. Three yards and a cloud of dust buecause we are a blue collar town and that’s what we deserve

Not that I’m huge fans of theirs but the last 2 qbs to get us to the playoffs were Tyrod Taylor and Doug flutie. How bout just get us the best !@#$ing QB. Also I remember Rogers having to play away playoff games on the rd in domes. What if we have to play teams in the south? What a joke the weather line is at this point. 

[Dkollidas]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Thats not clear at all. There are a ton of examples of guys starting right away that was the best thing for them. 

I just think his limited experience (was in JUCO two years ago and shows a lot raw type of traits) could be better served by a year (or at least a good portion of the year), on the bench learning the playbook, focusing on his mechanics, etc. 

[yungmack]

9 hours ago, DisplacedBillsFan said:

A top QB prospect and a day one starter at LB. Fantastic job in this draft so far!

 

Who is this team you are referring to? I know it isn't the Bills who spectacularly overreached for a QB who has bust written all over him, and traded up for a LB regarded as a 2nd round talent by many.

Edited April 27, 2018 by yungmack