Making the case for Lamar Jackson

[dlonce]

On 3/26/2018 at 5:19 PM, Blokestradamus said:

 

I'll go as far as saying this. Lamar Jackson is a quarterback. If his film says anything but that to you, you're doing it wrong.

 

His mobility is a plus in theory. PFF put out a stat about 70% of his rushing yards being on designed runs, not scrambles. If you watch the games, you should tell the difference between a scramble and a zone read or inverted veer play.

 

Does Lamar need work? Of course. His feet get too narrow, causes accuracy issues. He can look to escape pressure but he does a good job of keeping his eyes up against the rush. I think the biggest difference between him and Tyrod is that Lamar wants to be a passer and will stick with his reads longer. He's more intuitive and aggressive as a passer.

 

Narrow feet isn’t his biggest issue,it’s his release that causes velocity issues. He also throws an “ugly” ball,which is also caused by his odd release.  There’s only a forward wrist flick with no wrist follow through, which is akin to a pitcher throwing a screwball. That is why his ball spins awkwardly and wobbly passes seem to be the norm. That could be a reason his receivers dropped so many passes,or they just suck.

 

Tack on a professional pass rush, with the necessity of quick reads and you’ve got a huge project QB.

Can he learn to change all this? Maybe if he has time to throw,but once the bullets start flying he will revert to his comfort zone.

 

I agree,he appears to be a much better passer than Taylor, mostly because he doesn’t have to find throwing lanes as often and will complete his checks.

Running for a QB is a last resort and shouldn’t be done often for the obvious health reasons.

 

The Bills are not drafting this kid. They’ll draft Rudolph before Jackson.

Pass.

Edited March 30, 2018 by dlonce

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

Just finished watching some Jackson highlights.  All I can say is: if the Bills take him at 12, for his sake, he better hope and pray that we play bad teams like Kent State, Murray State, Syracuse and Boston College in an endless loop over a 16 game season.

[dlonce]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

 

Hes a huge Tyrod Taylor  fan. Enough said.

[mead107]

Riley Ferguson is the chosen one.  

[racketmaster]

I like to watch all the top qbs during interviews and I can’t say that I am surprised by his low score. Jackson seems like a nice kid but he was the least impressive qb to me during interviews. If I had not known better, I actually would have thought Jackson was CB and not at QB. 

 

He still is an incredible talent as a runner but I would have serious concerns about him as a long term answer at qb. NFL defenses are fast and throw complicated looks at qbs every week. Only those  qbs that are able to figure out the puzzles being thrown at them each week remain at the top for long periods.

 

It’s possible he is more football smart and could still work out like a Kelly or Marino. But I think the game has evolved more toward the thinking player. Players need to process lots of info quickly and solve defensive riddles being thrown their way. I think that is why the Bills would end up taking Rudolph over Jackson if they can’t trade up.

 

 

[billsfan89]

Lamar Jackson is a project but honestly, if he is there at pick 22 I wouldn't mind taking him there. They can fill 4 other needs on the roster at picks 12, 53, 56 and 65 while having AJ game manage a team that suddenly can add 4 possible starters via the draft along with depth in the mid rounds. The Bills have already filled needs this off-season and 2 or more quality starters plus some useful depth acquired in the draft are enough to improve the team to a point where AJ McCarron as a game manager can win the team games. Then throw in a windfall of cap space in 2019 and you could be comfortable with a project QB for a couple of seasons. 

 

Jackson to me has the most tantalizing potential of any QB in this draft. He could be Michael Vick like with his freak athleticism and raw throwing ability. But Vick was coming into replace Chris Chander at the very back end of his career and Vick didn't have the right environment in Atlanta where they failed to develop Vick as a player and person. Maybe the Bills with McCarron hold down the fort and do well enough to actually allow for a project QB to develop for 2-3 years. 

 

If Jackson secures his fundamentals (Which are not nearly as bad as scouts make them out to be but certainly need work) and learns to operate an NFL system by sitting for 2-3 years he can actually develop into his potential while learning from a smart QB (McCarron played under a notoriously demanding coach in Saben and a respected coach for 4 years in Marvin Lewis.)

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, dlonce said:

 

Hes a huge Tyrod Taylor  fan. Enough said.

Its amazing how you idiots just explain things away when it suits you.....

[OCinBuffalo]

Same question as Allen thread(s), for same reason: College football is now Live Action Techmo Bowl, but I think I found a way to cut through its BS.

 

How many different receivers does Jackson target per game? (Forget stats, forget defenses, because its all relative, and, because, again, Techmo Bowl. Also, forget completions, because I don't wanna get into coulda/shoulda RE: drops, bad routs, defender fell down, blah)

 

I figure if he targets lots of different guys/game, he must have to see them to target them, and that might tell us if he can do what is required in the NFL.

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

I’d sooner roll mother Theresa out there than another sub 20 wonderlic qb

 

Yeah... that Jim Kelly guy really sucked

[transplantbillsfan]

There just seems to be a lot of shade being thrown at Jackson here as though the wonderlic is icing on the cake.

 

Yeah, you want your QB to be smart, but football smart. Why is it important for a QB to be able to quickly do arithmetic or solve analogies or state what's the 8th month in the year?

 

It's been debated whether the Wonderlic is racially biased or not. I don't know and don't want to debate that. But what I do know, from professional experience as a teacher: standardized tests are being weighed less and less by colleges, which are looking at the all-around student.

 

Jackson has incredible natural physical talent, but is he football smart and willing to work? I think so:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2662128-the-education-of-lamar-jackson-how-louisville-qb-went-from-project-to-superstar.amp.html

The Education of Lamar Jackson: How Louisville QB Went from Project to Superstar

 

He picked Louisville, knowing coach Bobby Petrino's history of developing QBs. Then Petrino delivered the playbook.

 

"It looked like foreign letters," Jackson remembers. "I came from a high school where I didn't have a playbook or anything like that. Coach would draw it up and get the headset on, and we'd go after it."

 

and

 

 

And so when Jackson arrived on campus, he was not even named among the three guys who might be the starting quarterback. The playbook was still Greek to him, as were progressions, tight ends in motion and blitzes. Darn blitzes.

 

That was a year ago. A few days ago, he threw for six touchdowns and ran for two more.

 

and

 

"At first, I was like, 'Why are they trying to make me do this?'" Jackson says. "'I'm trying to sleep.' It was crazy. I'd watch my bad plays—my good plays, too."

 

The truth is, at first he wasn't even sure exactly what he was watching. Then it started making sense, and he realized he enjoyed it. "When I started getting more into it, I realized, 'This is what I'm here for.'"

 

and

 

Petrino says some of the things usually considered "natural intangibles" need to be worked on, too. For example, last year, Jackson was petrified to talk with the media. So he took a media class and also enlisted the help of a local reporter.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yeah... that Jim Kelly guy really sucked

 

I will say it again for the people at the same wonderlic as Lamar:

 

different era

Edited March 30, 2018 by joesixpack

[ALF]

Lamar is a good and humble guy. I respect him and think he could develop into a good backup but using his legs like in college and Taylor .

 

That is still a good career just not a 1st rd for me.

[racketmaster]

The wonderlic score for Jackson (13) is another similarity to Taylor (15). Taylor was able to sit behind Flacco and learn for 4 years before he competed and won a starting job in his 5th year. 

 

Taylor seemed to overcome the low score through hard work and Jackson could do the same. But Taylor never took the next step and developed into the franchise qb and whether the low wonderlic score played a factor in limiting him is not really known. 

 

As a fan of Tyrod, I admired his athletic ability, dedication, toughness and calm demeanor. One area where Tyrod seemed to struggle was situational football, especially 2 minute drives. He did not move fast enough in those situations for my liking and whether that had anything to do with processing speed we don’t know. But there was a vast difference in the way Brady, Wilson, Rodgers etc. ran 2 minutes situations as opposed to Taylor. Some of this might have been coaching but Taylor did not seem to always know the right times to spike the ball to conserve the most time. Again, not sure this is related to an intelligence test but it is possible there is a relationship. 

 

I just think the timing is bad for Jackson to Buffalo with the Bills coming off 3 years of Taylor. This regime clearly made a decision to move on from Taylor to get better and I don’t think they moved on from him to draft a player that is all to similar to Taylor. Right or wrong it does not appear to be a match. 

 

And before we go too far down the rabbit hole of the wonderlic being racially biased keep in mind that Colin Kaepernick (37), Wilson (28), Winston (27) and Newton (21) all performaned at a moderate to excellent level. 

 

I think the wonderlic is probably like most of the other measurables like height, hand size, arm strength etc.  A qb needs a certain amount to be successful but there are outliers and players can compensate for deficiencies in one area by being particularly strong in another. But there is a reason the NFL gives the test and I suspect the size of NFL playbooks has something to do with it. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by racketmaster

[4merper4mer]

9 hours ago, kdiggz said:

Nope I'd take Cam or Jameis any day of the week and if you look back you will find posts saying we need to do whatever it takes to draft them. Jameis was my top QB since Luck at the time

I understand trepidations about Lamar or any of these guys especially Allen, but Lamar is not the same as TT.

[ALF]

I was not impressed with his accuracy on long passes  (pro day)  against no pressure , no coverage.  He would not be a upgrade from Taylor  jmo.

[racketmaster]

23 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I understand trepidations about Lamar or any of these guys especially Allen, but Lamar is not the same as TT.

No two players are exactly the same but it is hard to deny that they share many similar qualities (lower comp. %, explosive runners, big play ability with the deep ball, hard working and determined to be a quarterback (Taylor was also asked to change positions by some teams), similar wonderlic score etc.  There are more similarities and also some differences but I don’t think there is a better current player comparison to Jackson. 

 

We often hear the comparison of Darnold to Romo and they do share many similarities but also have some differences. Overall it seems like a fair comparison and comparing players  is just what evaluators do at this time of year. They rate players in part by what they have seen in the past and what will work and what does not. Those experiences help decision makers get an idea of what a player will be like at the next level. 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

I am glad that people are starting to see that Jackson is just not a very good passer.  He misses a lot of throws and has real trouble passing outside the hashes.  I really feel like a lot of people who are high on him, are that way because of Jeremy White and Mike Schopp, who really don't know what they are talking about.  Schopp just wants to go against the grain no matter what it is.  About 6 weeks ago, White was talking about Jackson being a top 5 pick, the guy is clueless.  Then you have Howard Simon who agrees with everything White says, and Bulldog who agrees with everything Schopp says, reinforcing the beliefs among the fan base, much of whom have probably never watched a full game of Lamar Jackson or maybe just his highlights.

Edited March 30, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[mead107]

One thread

[Solomon Grundy]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/lamar-jackson-pro-day-results-analysis-steelers-2018-nfl-draft/1lrgc5g6uxeud1qdxwd6jur04m

Most of these articles project him to possibly end up in......

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767259-lamar-jackson-opts-against-running-40-yard-dash-does-position-drills-at-pro-day

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/30/lamar-jackson-pro-day-draft-stock-prediction-themmqb-newsletter

Edited March 30, 2018 by the skycap

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[John from Riverside]

On 3/30/2018 at 5:08 AM, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

I am glad that people are starting to see that Jackson is just not a very good passer.  He misses a lot of throws and has real trouble passing outside the hashes.  I really feel like a lot of people who are high on him, are that way because of Jeremy White and Mike Schopp, who really don't know what they are talking about.  Schopp just wants to go against the grain no matter what it is.  About 6 weeks ago, White was talking about Jackson being a top 5 pick, the guy is clueless.  Then you have Howard Simon who agrees with everything White says, and Bulldog who agrees with everything Schopp says, reinforcing the beliefs among the fan base, much of whom have probably never watched a full game of Lamar Jackson or maybe just his highlights.

This needle has not moved

the same uninformed people are still parroting the same bad information and latching onto anything and everything to prove their point

i don’t even listen to those commentators that you mention my points are 

there are 3 better qbs in this draft

we currently are not in a position to get one

we need to have a plan in case we don’t get one of them

we cannot come out of this draft without a guy

lj represents the best of the next tier

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

Chris Isaak = John from Riverside.  The woman = Lamar Jackson
 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Roundybout]

I would be fine with Lamar at 12, poor Wonderlic notwithstanding. 

[Ittakestime]

There is zero percent chance Lamar is drafted by Bills 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Ittakestime said:

There is zero percent chance Lamar is drafted by Bills 

LOL

[Reed83HOF]

Can we please stop making this case? There is no case for him...

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Can we please stop making this case? There is no case for him...

There is ABSOLUTELY a case for him

 

AT this current point in time we are not in a position to get better out of this draft

 

That could change.....or it might not change at all

 

IF that happens....you are looking at a guy like Mike White if you dont take Lamar Jackson....who has a lot to like as a QB especially if you are willing to take your time with him

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, Ittakestime said:

There is zero percent chance Lamar is drafted by Bills 

^^This^^

 

How many times do McD and Beane have to emphasize they want a pocket passer.

 

They're not drafting Jackson.

[1billsfan]

4 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:

^^This^^

 

How many times do McD and Beane have to emphasize they want a pocket passer.

 

They're not drafting Jackson.

 

If they're a couple of great poker players, then those emphatic claims are probably a bunch of baloney.

 

Those claims would concern me greatly if I were a huge Rosen guy. For Jackson guys like me, I'm feeling much less concerned that they don't want Jackson.

 

[Tyrod's friend]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

Can we please stop making this case? There is no case for him...

 

Clearly I am not in the Jackson camp - I started a whole thread against him.

 

Sorry dude, but you and others making this claim can't be serious. There is certainly a case for a talented QB playing in Buffalo. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There is ABSOLUTELY a case for him

 

AT this current point in time we are not in a position to get better out of this draft

 

That could change.....or it might not change at all

 

IF that happens....you are looking at a guy like Mike White if you dont take Lamar Jackson....who has a lot to like as a QB especially if you are willing to take your time with him

 

.....a difficult call to figure out what McBeane/McD/McDaboll are thinking offensively.....assume generically that Jackson and TT are similar mobility styles......was TT traded because his style did not fit?....or was his style acceptable but his substance within that style was the reason?....who the hell knows.......if TT's style was not the issue, then Jackson probably fits and has a bigger "substance" upside from what I am reading as a non-collegiate ball watcher.....OR....is this gang looking for a more prototypical pocket passer type with some mobility skills as needed?....OR........do they favor a spread/Air Raid type which they feel they can mold into someone successful under center as well as in the shotgun?.....picture seems to be clear as mud to me.......

[pennstate10]

Playing QB in the NFL is about making good decisions, and executing those decisions.  

I have no doubt Jackson has the arm and legs to play in the NFL.  Although if he runs too much, those legs will be injured.  He doesnt have a core like Rothelesberger (?sp).

 

His decision making worries me.  A lot.

He played in the one read and run system.  Scan half the field, if the guys open, great, if not, then run.

 

And he is his own agent?  And mom is his manager?  

 

These may turn out to be really wise decisions.  But history says no.

 

This guy doesnt make good decisions.

 

Coupled with an abysmal Wonderlic score....

 

Pass.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, pennstate10 said:

Playing QB in the NFL is about making good decisions, and executing those decisions.  

I have no doubt Jackson has the arm and legs to play in the NFL.  Although if he runs too much, those legs will be injured.  He doesnt have a core like Rothelesberger (?sp).

 

His decision making worries me.  A lot.

He played in the one read and run system.  Scan half the field, if the guys open, great, if not, then run.

 

And he is his own agent?  And mom is his manager?  

 

These may turn out to be really wise decisions.  But history says no.

 

This guy doesnt make good decisions.

 

Coupled with an abysmal Wonderlic score....

 

Pass.

 

Did he? 

[Big Gun]

59 minutes ago, 1billsfan said:

 

If they're a couple of great poker players, then those emphatic claims are probably a bunch of baloney.

 

Those claims would concern me greatly if I were a huge Rosen guy. For Jackson guys like me, I'm feeling much less concerned that they don't want Jackson.

 

Fair enough, you don't believe One Bills Dr.

 

They are still not drafting Jackson, imo.

[John from Riverside]

59 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Playing QB in the NFL is about making good decisions, and executing those decisions.  

I have no doubt Jackson has the arm and legs to play in the NFL.  Although if he runs too much, those legs will be injured.  He doesnt have a core like Rothelesberger (?sp).

 

His decision making worries me.  A lot.

He played in the one read and run system.  Scan half the field, if the guys open, great, if not, then run.

 

And he is his own agent?  And mom is his manager?  

 

These may turn out to be really wise decisions.  But history says no.

 

This guy doesnt make good decisions.

 

Coupled with an abysmal Wonderlic score....

 

Pass.

Why do people keep telling lies hoping other people believe them?

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Why do people keep telling lies hoping other people believe them?

<Chris De Burgh's "Lady in Red" starts to play.  John from Riverside grabs the microphone>

I've never seen you looking so lovely as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright
I've never seen so many men ask you if you wanted to dance
They're looking for a little romance, given half a chance
And I have never seen that uni you're wearing
Or the highlights in your hair that catch your eyes
I have been blind

Lamar Jackson is dancing with me, cheek to cheek
There's nobody here, it's just you and me
It's where I want to be
But I hardly know this beauty by my side
I'll never forget the way you look tonight

I've never seen you looking so gorgeous as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright, you were amazing
I've never seen so many people want to be there by your side
And when you turned to me and smiled, it took my breath away
And I have never had such a feeling
Such a feeling of complete and utter love, as I do tonight

Lamar Jackson is dancing with me, cheek to cheek
There's nobody here, it's just you and me
It's where I want to be
But I hardly know this beauty by my side
I'll never forget the way you look tonight

I never will forget the way you look tonight
Lamar Jackson, Lamar Jackson
Lamar Jackson, my Lamar Jackson

I love you

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Can we please stop making this case? There is no case for him...

 

Yes, there is.

7 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

<Chris De Burgh's "Lady in Red" starts to play.  John from Riverside grabs the microphone>

I've never seen you looking so lovely as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright
I've never seen so many men ask you if you wanted to dance
They're looking for a little romance, given half a chance
And I have never seen that uni you're wearing
Or the highlights in your hair that catch your eyes
I have been blind

Lamar Jackson is dancing with me, cheek to cheek
There's nobody here, it's just you and me
It's where I want to be
But I hardly know this beauty by my side
I'll never forget the way you look tonight

I've never seen you looking so gorgeous as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright, you were amazing
I've never seen so many people want to be there by your side
And when you turned to me and smiled, it took my breath away
And I have never had such a feeling
Such a feeling of complete and utter love, as I do tonight

Lamar Jackson is dancing with me, cheek to cheek
There's nobody here, it's just you and me
It's where I want to be
But I hardly know this beauty by my side
I'll never forget the way you look tonight

I never will forget the way you look tonight
Lamar Jackson, Lamar Jackson
Lamar Jackson, my Lamar Jackson

I love you

 

What's with the ridiculous new trend on this board of just copying and pasting song lyrics and changing 2 or 3 words thinking it's really clever?

 

Has there been an inundation of junior high kids on this board no one told me about?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/03/lamar-jackson-mother-felicia-jones-draft-agent-manager-louisville

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, there is.

 

What's with the ridiculous new trend on this board of just copying and pasting song lyrics and changing 2 or 3 words thinking it's really clever?

 

Has there been an inundation of junior high kids on this board no one told me about?

But he's the detective!!