NFL Could Change Defensive Pass Interference to a 15-yard Penalty - Unlikely to be Adopted

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

So the DB is right there, you as a coach will tell him to just grab the WR instead of get your head around and play the ball? 

 

Are people even thinking? 

 

People are thinking and it wouldn't be a situation where DBs would do it every time as I previously stated.  There would be instances where committing PI would be preferable to giving up a huge gain or a TD.  We see that now with the rules calling for a spot foul. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, TheTruthHurts said:

So the DB is right there, you as a coach will tell him to just grab the WR instead of get your head around and play the ball? 

 

Are people even thinking? 

 

You're a cb lined up against a wr like Julio Jones

You know he's going to beat you on a jump ball

Why?

Because he's Julio Jones and that's what he does

You can prevent a 40 yard reception by just pulling him down, to only get a 15 yard penalty

You pull Julio down every time.

Period.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

People are thinking and it wouldn't be a situation where DBs would do it every time as I previously stated.  There would be instances where committing PI would be preferable to giving up a huge gain or a TD.  We see that now with the rules acalling for a spot foul. 

How? What situation would it be OK for a 15 yard interference? You would have to be completely embarrassed early in the route. It rarely happens.  

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

You're a cb lined up against a wr like Julio Jones

You know he's going to beat you on a jump ball

Why?

Because he's Julio Jones and that's what he does

You can prevent a 40 yard reception by just pulling him down, to only get a 15 yard penalty

You pull Julio down every time.

Period.

That's never going to happen. For one thing rarely will a WR like Jones be 1 on 1 deep. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

How? What situation would it be OK for a 15 yard interference? You would have to be completely embarrassed early in the route. It rarely happens.  

 

I see it often on double moves.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I see it often on double moves.

Yeah, holding, 5 yards. Or pass interference but early in the route, likely less than 15 yards. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, TheTruthHurts said:

Yeah, holding, 5 yards. Or pass interference but early in the route, likely less than 15 yards. 

 

It depends on the route and how badly a DB is beaten, but I believe we'd see WRs getting hauled down late in deep routes where a DB is beaten badly knowing it would be better to give up 15 yards. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It depends on the route and how badly a DB is beaten, but I believe we'd see WRs getting hauled down late in deep routes where a DB is beaten badly knowing it would be better to give up 15 yards. 

I just don't know why people think that would happen. It doesn't happen often in college football, it would happen less in the NFL. NFL CB'S don't get beat bad enough. They are typically right there to make a play on the ball. 

 

Do you want Tre White making a play on the ball or give up and give the team 15 yards? He'll be benched. 

[GrizzReaper]

It could go good and bad. I am tired of seeing PI calls flip the field though. Heck in this year's Superbowl I watched Gronkowski start flopping around like a fish out of water to try to draw a PI on that final bomb to the end zone. I can't post a video of it but I remember watching it and thinking how much of a douche Gronk is. You can clearly see how bad he was acting to try to get the PI call. That could've changed the outcome of the Superbowl. It's sickening.

Edited February 28, 2018 by GrizzReaper

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

I just don't know why people think that would happen. It doesn't happen often in college football, it would happen less in the NFL. NFL CB'S don't get beat bad enough. They are typically right there to make a play on the ball. 

 

Do you want Tre White making a play on the ball or give up and give the team 15 yards? He'll be benched. 

 

Again. No one is talking about a typical situation, but DBs would be incentivized to take the PI penalty when it's advantageous. 

[SouthNYfan]

21 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

How? What situation would it be OK for a 15 yard interference? You would have to be completely embarrassed early in the route. It rarely happens.  

That's never going to happen. For one thing rarely will a WR like Jones be 1 on 1 deep. 

 

Okay.

Keep telling yourself that.

[LA Grant]

23 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Except once teams hit 3pi, it would go back to the "Chuck and aim for pi" bs the pats do again, just delayed until later in game, and it would encourage them to try for pi more often earlier in games to get into the "penalty

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

If anything, this is what it has to be, or along this line.

Otherwise, if it's just a flat 15 yard, it'll turn into the NFL version of "hack a Shaq" when they would just hard foul Shaq , taking their chance at him and his terrible sub-50% free throws instead of his 75%+ fg chance to close.

 

I can see it now in the film room with belicheat

Bb: "Okay , mccourtney and Chung, see this play? Where Gilmore gets torched on a deep post by Julio Jones? Next time you see ANYBODY gets any separation on the DB I want you heading over to smash him before the ball gets there"

 

Chung: "but coach, that's a 15 yard penalty"

 

Bb: "better than a 40 yard completion. Make sure he doesn't catch it. Lay him out"

....

 

Only problem with the "levels" of the penally is it's one more thing for the refs to have "judgment" calls on... We all know how well that works out...

 

Precisely this. But the problem of refs making unreliable judgments is a problem that comes with refs being human. Just needs to be clearer rules, imo. I don't understand why the NFL is incapable of having a centralized officiating system with the NY office or whatever essentially calling every play through the officials on the field. Which is kind of what they're doing now, just not the full version of it. Or, better yet, just find and employ the most consistent referees you can find, instead of the same old saggy jokers we've been watching for 20 years, and just let the call be the call, and move on. 

 

Booth or Coaches can still challenge, but I'd like to hear the debate. That'd be more fun than listening to Collinsworth get it completely wrong and then double down on it, and just seem like a complete fool. If we're going to see a call challenged, then put the coach or OC/DC on the phone with a ref and the central NY office, and let the audience in on why this should or should not be a catch, or a fumble, or a touchdown. I don't think that will ever happen but it'd be more fun for the audience, more straight-forward, more educational. I feel like there's less ambiguity or reasons to suspect corruption if you can just hear the decision-making process for how & why the call is the call. 

 

It's not like this would be technologically difficult, nor would be it any more time-consuming than it is now. It would just require NFL refs, coaches, and officials to be more transparent with the audience. Don't think it will happen, but it would be better.

 

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

It depends on the route and how badly a DB is beaten, but I believe we'd see WRs getting hauled down late in deep routes where a DB is beaten badly knowing it would be better to give up 15 yards. 

 

Unless there was a counter to that strategy: the Flagrant/volume II version of the penalty where a flagrant cheap shot results in spot foul and, depending how flagrant, an ejection.

 

Seems like a win-win proposition.

 

NFL gets more scoring + CBs get a bit of a break when PI is called for a little bit of grabbing not costing them 40 yards on 3rd and long. I would also suggest that the vol I tier does not automatically result in a first down, in the case that it's 3rd and 20 or something, and it gets called. In that scenario, a CB can choose this, if they're coached by someone like Belichick to go right up against the rules — if you think your WR is getting open, get grabby, just don't flagrantly knock them down or knock their hands away or something. The offense then would likely send WRs on go routes to prevent this, leaving the CB to either do their best to properly cover, or if they get grabby or go for a hit on the player before the ball arrives, then they're giving up the spot-foul and perhaps an ejection depending on how obvious they're mugging the WR. But say it's an incompletion on 3rd & 20, but the 15-yard PI is called. This wouldn't result in 1st down, but instead to 3rd & 5, and back to a 'normal down' where intentionally comitting PI is a bad strategy either way.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

22 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Again. No one is talking about a typical situation, but DBs would be incentivized to take the PI penalty when it's advantageous. 

When do you want the Bills DBs to give the opposing offense 15 yards and a 1st?

Edited February 28, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, TheTruthHurts said:

When do you want the Bills DBs to give the opposing offense 15 yards?

 

On a play like this if possible: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000857727/Can-t-Miss-Play-A-J-Green-torches-rookie-CB-White-for-long-TD

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

On a play like this if possible: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000857727/Can-t-Miss-Play-A-J-Green-torches-rookie-CB-White-for-long-TD

Great example that supports my point. He could have tackled him at 10 yards now, only a 10 yard penalty. At over 15 Green was too far.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Great example that supports my point. He could have tackled him at 10 yards now, only a 10 yard penalty. At over 15 Green was too far.

 

Not the exact scenario, but I'm talking about the end result of a TD on a big play.   He had no reason to tackle him at 10 yards. White just anticipated a different route when it was a straight go that Green was running. 

[LA Grant]

Thinking more on the tiers — It should be a three strike system with the real possibility of ejection.

 

PI i — The common version of it. Defender gets too grabby, puts hands on receiver before ball arrives, likely unintentional or, no obvious intent to harm the player. 15 yard penalty, results in replay of down, or 1st down if less than 15 yards.

 

PI ii — Defender intentionally hits receiver before ball arrives to prevent reception. "Hit" and "intent" are the major distinctions between i & ii, which are human judgment calls, obviously. If the current refs get too bogged down by the philosophical question of "what is a hit? what is intent" then replace them with a child, because any 6-year-old can show you the difference between hitting & touching during playtime, and 'on purpose' and 'on accident.' 

 

PI iii — Defender intentionally hits receiver before ball arrives to prevent reception in a way that could injure the receiver. In other words, an obvious cheap shot. This results in ejection and potentially a suspension.

 

You have it where if the same defender gets up to to level 3 in one half (if they get three PI is, or a PI ii and a PI i) then they're ejected. 

 

This way, the CBs shouldn't want to get the calls in any strategy, and the refs would be less inclined to call it just for the hell of it to make it interesting, unless it's a serious warning that, like, hey Gregg Williams or hey Belichick — we see you, we see what you're doing, and you'd better get your players to stop, or you're going to start seeing them ejected, or they're going to stop playing your strategy for their own good.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, LA Grant said:

Thinking more on the tiers — It should be a three strike system with the real possibility of ejection.

 

PI i — The common version of it. Defender gets too grabby, puts hands on receiver before ball arrives, likely unintentional or, no obvious intent to harm the player. 15 yard penalty, results in replay of down, or 1st down if less than 15 yards.

 

PI ii — Defender intentionally hits receiver before ball arrives to prevent reception. "Hit" and "intent" are the major distinctions between i & ii, which are human judgment calls, obviously. If the current refs get too bogged down by the philosophical question of "what is a hit? what is intent" then replace them with a child, because any 6-year-old can show you the difference between hitting & touching during playtime, and 'on purpose' and 'on accident.' 

 

PI iii — Defender intentionally hits receiver before ball arrives to prevent reception in a way that could injure the receiver. In other words, an obvious cheap shot. This results in ejection and potentially a suspension.

 

You have it where if the same defender gets up to to level 3 in one half (if they get three PI is, or a PI ii and a PI i) then they're ejected. 

 

This way, the CBs shouldn't want to get the calls in any strategy, and the refs would be less inclined to call it just for the hell of it to make it interesting, unless it's a serious warning that, like, hey Gregg Williams or hey Belichick — we see you, we see what you're doing, and you'd better get your players to stop, or you're going to start seeing them ejected, or they're going to stop playing your strategy for their own good.

 

 

Too much judgment in this stuff to create confusion where officials have to determin intent. 

[LA Grant]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Too much judgment in this stuff to create confusion where officials have to determin intent. 

 

We have to deal with their judgment either way. Make it simpler by giving the rules narrower, clearer lines. Not complicated.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Not the exact scenario, but I'm talking about the end result of a TD on a big play.   He had no reason to tackle him at 10 yards. White just anticipated a different route when it was a straight go that Green was running. 

It's much easier said then done. Happens so fast. You even see White try to grab him at about 15 yards.

[Estro]

Don't like it.

 

If the D interferes with a WR 7 yards down field now the offense get a 15 yard penalty.  Fans will rightfully b*tch.

 

If the D interferes with a WR 47 yards down field the offense only advance the ball 15 yards.  Fans will rightfully b*tch

 

Like others have said....if a CB gets roasted deep coaches will be teaching their corners and safeties to simply maul the WR, take the 15 yard penalty and live to see another day.  One of the most exciting plays in football is the deep bomb for a TD...and this rule change, will make that play happen far less.  Why?  

 

Hate it.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

It's much easier said then done. Happens so fast. You even see White try to grab him at about 15 yards.

 

Sounds like you agree with me. 

[Doc Brown]

I think they should only change the rule for the Patriots.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, cage said:

 

Couldn't they do it the same way they've modified "roughing the kicker"?  There's a 5 yd version and a 15 yd automatic first down version.  A close, aggressive play where there was some contact could be a 15 yard penalty (hand on the back, hands on should or arm as ball is arriving...).  However blatant PI, obvious mugging, not even turning to play the ball is a spot foul.  Also gives referees some latitude on late "hail mary" passes.  Those heaves always make me nervous that the offense will get a cheap PI penalty,... not sure how much that actually happens.  Anyway, penalty could be at the discretion of referee.

 

This is the only reasonable change, IMHO. And it would undoubtedly cause some controversies about which version would've been correct. But would be an overall improvement,  most calls would be correct.

[Dadonkadonk]

Spot foul and let coaches challenge if they want to.  

[Manther]

11 hours ago, LABillzFan said:

 

I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure the Pats have a play called Gronk Deep Riveron Call.

Bahahaaa!  Funny!  The Pats * probably have that play.  95% sure it’s not called that.  But, 5% chance that is exactly what that play is called!

[row_33]

I hate it when a long PI call goes against the Bills.  It’s just fine when the Bills get the call though.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Awesome, tired of all those cheap yards, maybe this will bring the running game back into balance.

 

 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

there should be two

1 if it is an obvious pull down , meaning corner is clearing beat and is doing anything to knock down the receiver it is a spot foul 

2 all others 15 yards

if you don't have the ability to call "intentional Pass interference" any time a db is beat he will take the 15 yard penalty and yes it should be reviewable 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I like the idea.

[Tenhigh]

16 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'd rather see refs held accountable when making crappy calls.

 

Most of these PI calls are when both players are going for it.  Either flag them both, or don't throw one at all.

Totally agree that far too many of these calls are BS.  They should leave it as is, and stop being so overly protective of the WR.   

[Mrbojanglezs]

If the corner is beat that badly he won't be in position to tackle the receiver...

 

If this happens they should be more aggressive with calling defensive holding penalties especially the first year after implementation

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[QCity]

10 hours ago, Estro said:

Don't like it.

 

If the D interferes with a WR 7 yards down field now the offense get a 15 yard penalty.  Fans will rightfully b*tch.

 

If the D interferes with a WR 47 yards down field the offense only advance the ball 15 yards.  Fans will rightfully b*tch

 

Like others have said....if a CB gets roasted deep coaches will be teaching their corners and safeties to simply maul the WR, take the 15 yard penalty and live to see another day.  One of the most exciting plays in football is the deep bomb for a TD...and this rule change, will make that play happen far less.  Why?  

 

Hate it.

 

Anything under 15 yards can be a spot foul, that's not an issue. If your WR is getting interfered with 47 yards downfield, then he likely wasn't open in the first place.

 

It bears repeating, if your WR truly has the DB beat on a deep route, and the pass is accurate, there is nothing the DB can do about it. He can't tackle him. He can't even touch him. And if he can, then either a) the WR didn't get separation or b) the pass was poorly underthrown -- and in either case the offense doesn't deserve to get 50+yds of offense on a flag. That's the cheesiest play in football, and it's happening more often every year.

 

[Livinginthepast]

I cannot believe what I am reading on here. All these people who want the rule to stay as is??? and not change it?? Sorry but the officials are getting WORSE in this league not better and the amount of bad PI calls last year that resulted in huge and undeserved gains down the field was ridiculous, especially in the playoffs. The sad fact is that receivers in the NFL are now like soccer players and they fake PI and "simulate" it when they cannot get to the ball to get an undeserved call.   A bad PI call swung that Jags/Pats game in the playoffs.

 

I think this would be a great rule change because it would mitigate the damage from inevitable bad officiating that is only going to get worse!! The current punishment for the crime of PI doesn't equate to the offense. Its literally the worst penalty you can take in football. Even unsportmanlike or unnecessary roughing (far more serious offenses) are maxed at 15 yards yet you can gain 50 yards or more on a phantom PI call. That is simply ridiculous.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Livinginthepast

[26CornerBlitz]

Good!

[Fan in San Diego]

Awesome rule change

[TheFunPolice]

anything that takes the refs out of the game more I am in favor of.

 

15 yards doesn't ruin a game the way a 50 yard ticky tack BS penalty does. Just ask Jacksonville. Play an entire half of amazing football and it all goes down the drain with one flag that sets the other team right up in prime scoring position.

 

Guys are not going to just interfere with long passes because long passes where the DB is near enough to the WR to interfere are not likely to be completed anyway. 2/3 outcomes favor the defense: INT or incomplete. Why would you just yank a guy down and let the offense take a free 15?

 

If you are in the process of the WR running past you there is always the option of grabbing him as he runs by, which happens all the time now and gets you the defensive holding 5 yard 1st down penalty. Once he's past you your chance to interfere is gone.

 

 

We need fewer game-changing calls by the refs. Most playoff games this season there were fewer flags and the game is so much better to watch.

 

Refs should only call blatant holding or pass interference, and focus on catch/no catch, ball spots, TD/no TD, headshots and intent to injure. Enough with the refs who want to "steal the show" and get on TV while they change the outcome of games by making borderline at best calls that result in 50 yard gains.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Cmdjr85]

1) as someone said they should make it reviewable. 

 

2) 15 yards is fine unless its blatant then you could make it a spot foul.

 

3) will owners actually vote to change this?

[CodeMonkey]

22 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

 

Overall I would slightly prefer them to keep the rule as is, but let the players play more and don’t call it PI unless it really impacts the play.

 

 

I absolutely HATE that. People are bitching now at how inconsistent calls are.  Imagine what happens if they deliberately make this arbitrary based on the refs perception of it if impacted the play or not. That would be worse than "is it a catch?".

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by CodeMonkey