Zay Jones played injured all season...

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, cale said:

Was an injured Zay Jones really better than another healthy WR? I don't get this logic. Why didn't they get him fixed and use someone far more effective?

 

Why not? Tyrod made Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Matthews look like bums this year, and Watkins & Woods before that. It wouldn't have mattered if he had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss out there, we'd still be dead last in YAC.

Edited January 16, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Why not? Tyrod made Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Matthews look like bums this year, and Watkins & Woods before that. It wouldn't have mattered if he had Jerry Rice and Randy Moss out there, we'd still be dead last in YAC.

Its a fair question. All the blame doesn't fall on TT. The WRS deserve their share of the blame as well as they struggled to get separation all year.

 

Having Jones as the 2 receiver especially while he was hurt and not producing at all, makes absolutely no sense

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, billsfan11 said:

The WRS deserve their share of the blame as well as they struggled to get separation all year.

 

Nonsense. I watched them run free constantly. The big difference is that to Taylor a step or, god forbid, a CB on the wrong hip is still covered. We saw when Peterman came in that plays were there to be made. He missed a lot more than he hit, but that's a limitation on his own development, not on the WRs. If Taylor QB'd the vikings, he checks that 4th down throw to Mike Tolbert who stole McKinnon's jersey before the last drive.

[Captain Murica]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Tell me about it.  I have partial blindness and furry palms from all that volleyball too.

Lasik and Nair, you'll be good as new. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:45 PM, Luka said:

 

PFF deemed 40% of his targets uncatchable and with the way PFF is, it was probably more in the 50-60% range. But let's go with 40%. That's 30 balls his way completely uncatchable. So now you're down to 27 catches on 45 "catchable" passes. Not every incomplete pass is a drop so out of 18 incomplete passes I'd say 10 actual drops is a pretty accurate representation of his season.

 

Have a nice day.

 

3/4 of Big Ben's TD passes on Sunday were uncatchable.

 

Yeah, Dropzone Jones probably flat-out dropped 10-12 of the 45 wide open,  well placed passes........and that is just an awful %.

 

But the bigger issue still was not making plays.

 

He's a guy that is built to catch contested passes.........big, long arms, huge catch radius with big hands that were like glue in college.

 

Yet everything that was thrown to him in contested situations he could not make a play on.

 

Tyrod put a bunch of perfectly thrown balls on Jones hands and he just couldn't make a single contested grab.   They needed him to be able to make plays on those nine routes and he just could not.

 

It was uncanny.   He at no point looked like an NFL WR this year.    If he had just been some 6th round pick he'd have been cut for sure for all the drops and bobbles.

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Nonsense. I watched them run free constantly. The big difference is that to Taylor a step or, god forbid, a CB on the wrong hip is still covered. We saw when Peterman came in that plays were there to be made. He missed a lot more than he hit, but that's a limitation on his own development, not on the WRs. If Taylor QB'd the vikings, he checks that 4th down throw to Mike Tolbert who stole McKinnon's jersey before the last drive.

Call it nonsense all you want, read the article.

 

What was the Bills weak link going into the season?

 

QB and WRS I would say. And they ended up both being weak.

 

Don't fool yourself by saying Zay Jones had a good year and TT deserves all the blame for his lack of production.

 

You really cant have much worse of a season than he did

[Irv]

3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Call it nonsense all you want, read the article.

 

What was the Bills weak link going into the season?

 

QB and WRS I would say. And they ended up both being weak.

 

Don't fool yourself by saying Zay Jones had a good year and TT deserves all the blame for his lack of production.

 

You really cant have much worse of a season than he did

 

Agree.  With hands of stone like his, I doubt he'll make it through training camp.  

 

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Badthingsman said:

 

Agree.  With hands of stone like his, I doubt he'll make it through training camp.  

 

I mean, he will because they invested a 2nd round pick in him and he was hurt last year.

 

But for people to defend Jones last year just makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

The guy was awful in literally every single category.

 

I'm not calling him a bust, but it's time for people to call a spade a spade as well. Jones had an awful first year

[papazoid]

silver lining ?

 

his injury is a valid excuse for some drops ....hopefully he has good year 2

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

EVEN stronger?   Dude.......we HATED your season.   Couldn't have been weaker.

[Elite Poster]

Here we go again

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

Call it nonsense all you want, read the article.

 

What was the Bills weak link going into the season?

 

QB and WRS I would say. And they ended up both being weak.

 

Don't fool yourself by saying Zay Jones had a good year and TT deserves all the blame for his lack of production.

 

You really cant have much worse of a season than he did

 

Maybe you should re-read it. The stat is at the time of QB release. Taylor has the longest time to throw in the league this year and at least 2015, not sure about '16. During that time, we've also ranked dead last in YAC. I put the blame on Taylor, because he doesn't release the ball at the top of routes, so WRS don't stay open. I just won't listen to the fact the Benjamin, Clay, Watkins, Woods gave him no weapons over the last two years. The guy is a total bum as a passer. Fix that and then we can worry about WRs.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

Way too many here dismissing a shoulder injury like spoiled kids.  Last I checked, catches are generally made with two hands and a bad shoulder certainly affects the ability to position at least the hand on that arm.

 

i don’t know if Zay Jones will end up being a good NFL WR, but I really don’t understand the hate for the guy that some are showing.

 

MANY WRs struggle early in the NFL - see Eric Moulds’ first two years.  On top of that Jones had a shoulder injury that likely affected his arm movements AND he came from a lower-level of collegiate competition AND he appeared to have gutted his injury out without excuses AND many passes were off target.  I just don’t see the need to bury the guy so early.  If he doesn’t pan out, there will be plenty of time to tell everyone that you were so prescient that you knew he would suck.

[GG]

The injury should explain his poor performance. But it doesn't explain how the medical staff missed it and he was active every week.  

[OldTimer1960]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

The injury should explain his poor performance. But it doesn't explain how the medical staff missed it and he was active every week.  

Uh, OK.  I get it - “ someone must be responsible for this travesty”

[GG]

6 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Uh, OK.  I get it - “ someone must be responsible for this travesty”

You don't think there's a bit of a disconnect between Zays father saying that he couldn't lift a glass of water and Zay never appearing on the injury list and playing like garbage?

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Maybe you should re-read it. The stat is at the time of QB release. Taylor has the longest time to throw in the league this year and at least 2015, not sure about '16. During that time, we've also ranked dead last in YAC. I put the blame on Taylor, because he doesn't release the ball at the top of routes, so WRS don't stay open. I just won't listen to the fact the Benjamin, Clay, Watkins, Woods gave him no weapons over the last two years. The guy is a total bum as a passer. Fix that and then we can worry about WRs.

Ok you’re right. Zay was a monster last year 

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, GG said:

You don't think there's a bit of a disconnect between Zays father saying that he couldn't lift a glass of water and Zay never appearing on the injury list and playing like garbage?

 

 

You misunderstood my post.  I DO think that is a mitigating factor.  I was trying to argue for some patience with Jones (see post just above)

[Irv]

Hands of Stone Jones will be released in training camp.  He's just no good.  Let's stop making excuses for the dozens of drops he had this year and his complete lack of getting open the rest of the time. 

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

Gag.  Hurt the team.

[Steptide]

1 minute ago, Badthingsman said:

Hands of Stone Jones will be released in training camp.  He's just no good.  Let's stop making excuses for the dozens of drops he had this year and his complete lack of getting open the rest of the time. 

 

Dude you're insane if you think they'll cut a 2nd year guy who they drafted. How long did it take Stevie Johnson to see the field? Or how about Goodwin who had a great season with the 9ers this year? 

 

No way they cut him 

[Irv]

10 minutes ago, Steptide said:

 

Dude you're insane if you think they'll cut a 2nd year guy who they drafted. How long did it take Stevie Johnson to see the field? Or how about Goodwin who had a great season with the 9ers this year? 

 

No way they cut him 

 

I know it sounds crazy but you saw Darby, Watkins, and Dareus get launched.   Guy had an awful year.  What did you see that made you want to keep him?  He didn't do anything.  Free agents outplayed him 5X.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Badthingsman

[YoloinOhio]

The stats below are from the first 2 years of another WR in the league, also drafted in the 2nd round. And he was playing with a future HOF QB. Guess who?

 

Age
2014 Catch % 57.6
2014	22
2015	23
2016	24
2017	25

2015 catch % 53.2

					Games		Receiving									Rushing
Year ▲	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Rush	Yds	TD	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2014	22		WR		16	11	66	38	446	11.7	3	45	2.4	27.9	57.6%								446	3	0	5
2015	23		WR		13	12	94	50	483	9.7	1	40	3.8	37.2	53.2%

[Blokestradamus]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

The stats below are from the first 2 years of another WR in the league, also drafted in the 2nd round. And he was playing with a future HOF QB. Guess who?

 

Age
2014 Catch % 57.6
2014	22
2015	23
2016	24
2017	25

2015 catch % 53.2

					Games		Receiving									Rushing
Year ▲	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Rush	Yds	TD	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2014	22		WR		16	11	66	38	446	11.7	3	45	2.4	27.9	57.6%								446	3	0	5
2015	23		WR		13	12	94	50	483	9.7	1	40	3.8	37.2	53.2%

 

Davante.

[26CornerBlitz]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:12 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Maybe he'll have his hands fixed while he's at it. 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Blokestradamus said:

 

Davante.

Adams was also referred to as stone hands and he had no excuses with his QB. Fan base ragged on him for two years. Lo and behold, He just signed a huge extension and has developed into their #1 WR.

 

You don’t give up on WR in their rookie seasons who have a history of producing in college, haven’t had a decent passer throwing the ball, and played with a torn labrum. To even suggest it is crazy imo. 

[Blokestradamus]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Adams was also referred to as stone hands and he had no excuses with his QB. Fan base ragged on him for two years. Lo and behold, He just signed a huge extension and has developed into their #1 WR.

 

You don’t give up on WR in their rookie seasons who have a history of producing in college, haven’t had a decent passer throwing the ball, and played with a torn labrum. To even suggest it is crazy imo. 

 

I was in that large group of people that gave up on Davante. Justifiably so, I'd like to believe. He was pretty useless early on.

 

I've given Zay as much crap as anyone over the past 4 months. His hands were the one trait I liked in college and the injury makes some sense as to why they deserted him this year. They have a high 2nd invested in him (plus traded away assets) so that'll buy him the time to prove this season to be an anomaly. As one of the "haters", I'll relent for now and give the kid a chance at redemption. He's a nice lad, I'll root for him.

[cale]

4 hours ago, GG said:

The injury should explain his poor performance. But it doesn't explain how the medical staff missed it and he was active every week.  

 

This!

[thunderingsquid]

Oh. My.  God.

 

Please haters STFU and go try to catch a football above your chest with a torn labrum.  

 

End thread.

[Bills Pimpin']

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

3/4 of Big Ben's TD passes on Sunday were uncatchable.

 

Yeah, Dropzone Jones probably flat-out dropped 10-12 of the 45 wide open,  well placed passes........and that is just an awful %.

 

But the bigger issue still was not making plays.

 

He's a guy that is built to catch contested passes.........big, long arms, huge catch radius with big hands that were like glue in college.

 

Yet everything that was thrown to him in contested situations he could not make a play on.

 

Tyrod put a bunch of perfectly thrown balls on Jones hands and he just couldn't make a single contested grab.   They needed him to be able to make plays on those nine routes and he just could not.

 

It was uncanny.   He at no point looked like an NFL WR this year.    If he had just been some 6th round pick he'd have been cut for sure for all the drops and bobbles.

Big Ben was fantastic on Sunday and if i recall every TD pass was perfect. If Tyrod played 1/10th as good a week ago, the Bills win going away against the Jags. You should never make any comparison between Ben and Tyrod. Ever.

Also, I would like you to post one "perfect" pass Tyrod threw to Jones all year. I watched every single play this year probably twice and I can't remember one "perfect" pass to Zay Jones. I'm not saying the kid was good this year, but ffs he's a rookie. You are way over the top critical IMO.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Bills Pimpin'

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Big Ben was fantastic on Sunday and if i recall every TD pass was perfect. If Tyrod played 1/10th as good a week ago, the Bills win going away against the Jags. You should never make any comparison between Ben and Tyrod. Ever.

Also, I would like you to post one "perfect" pass Tyrod threw to Jones all year. I watched every single play this year probably twice and I can't remember one "perfect" pass to Zay Jones. I'm not saying the kid was good this year, but ffs he's a rookie. You are way over the top critical IMO.

 

In the end:

 

Big Ben lost by one score at home with the best set of playmakers in the NFL(and did they ever make plays/catches that virtually nobody else could have, wow).

 

Tyrod also lost by one score.....but on the road.....with maybe the worst receiving corps in the NFL(and boy did they drop passes that hit them on the hands,  KB in end zone, Deonte before end of half, O'Leary).

 

As a comparison.......the Bills were like an old Parcells Giants team and the Steelers played like an old Walsh/Siefert Niners team on an off year..........the Niners played to beat you and they viewed themselves as their biggest competition.........the Giants played to the scoreboard.

 

Nobody would argue that Hostetler belongs in the same category as Montana or Jim Kelly but he did beat them and win a SB playing their conservative style of football.

 

 

[Bills Pimpin']

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

In the end:

 

Big Ben lost by one score at home with the best set of playmakers in the NFL(and did they ever make plays/catches that virtually nobody else could have, wow).

 

Tyrod also lost by one score.....but on the road.....with maybe the worst receiving corps in the NFL(and boy did they drop passes that hit them on the hands,  KB in end zone, Deonte before end of half, O'Leary).

 

As a comparison.......the Bills were like an old Parcells Giants team and the Steelers played like an old Walsh/Siefert Niners team on an off year..........the Niners played to beat you and they viewed themselves as their biggest competition.........the Giants played to the scoreboard.

 

Nobody would argue that Hostetler belongs in the same category as Montana or Jim Kelly but he did beat them and win a SB playing their conservative style of football.

 

 

Very good point and I don't deny that the Bills receiving corp could make Tyrod look like a much better QB stat wise by making a few standard catches as well as one or two great catches. But as an overall picture of the offense IMO our quarterback had enough talent on the field to score 14-24 points. Did Zay help Tyrod? No. But Tyrod didn't help him either and I put that more on Tyrod.  I'm excited to see this WR group with a true deep threat, a new OC and a new QB.

[MikeSpeed]

People can and should complain about Zay's in-ability to get separation. Unless you are going to complain about Clay's drops, you shouldn't be complaining about Zay's. Both had 74 targets Clay had 5 drops Zay had 2. This is according to https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills-team-stats?season=2017&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=2&qualified=0&sortOrder=0

 

Not sure how they determine drops, but it seemed like Clay dropped at least 1 pass every game.

 

Now Zay's completion/ target % that is not good. Which I would think would be a function of how open you are when the pass is thrown.

[ColoradoBills]

12 hours ago, thunderingsquid said:

Oh. My.  God.

 

Please haters STFU and go try to catch a football above your chest with a torn labrum.  

 

End thread.

 

Thank you 'squid.

 

The man had a rough rookie season.

He will be here next year.

IF he has another rough season.

Then a decision will need to be made.

 

Until then, end thread.

Sheesh

[thunderingsquid]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thank you 'squid.

 

The man had a rough rookie season.

He will be here next year.

IF he has another rough season.

Then a decision will need to be made.

 

Until then, end thread.

Sheesh

 

Amen, brother.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Young34]

On 1/13/2018 at 6:16 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I've heard this excuse before 

I was just thinking that.

[Fred Clause]

On 1/14/2018 at 9:03 PM, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

 

I was expecting to read he was playing with a broken finger all year. At least that would explain the drops

Stay in Canada please if you don’t think your shoulder affects your ability to catch a pass...

[Canadian Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Fred Clause said:

Stay in Canada please if you don’t think your shoulder affects your ability to catch a pass...

 

 

Umm I have stayed in Canada. That is where I post from.

 

Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread

[Fred Clause]

9 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

 

Umm I have stayed in Canada. That is where I post from.

 

Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread

Your contributing has been crap, as others have said if you don’t understand how his injury affected his ability to catch the ball, you have the brains of a slab of Back bacon. Next year will be a better indicator of his ability’s and if you can’t figure that out I guess you will keep trolling your poor opinions. What value is that to the board?