OL doing pretty well, actually

[Domdab99]

So is this because TT runs arround like crazy, or is the OL actually, you know....good? 

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/946474844211818496

 

 

 

can't post the JPEG because it's too big...oh well

Edited December 28, 2017 by Domdab99

[westerndecline]

I'll put it this way the o-line has not been the problem past 3 years

[Happy]

 

25 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

So is this because TT runs arround like crazy, or is the OL actually, you know....good?

 

Tyrod holds the ball too long, which is one of his problems, and can reflect poorly on the offensive line.

[Capco]

Kinda surprising but I'll take it.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Capco said:

Kinda surprising but I'll take it.  

Not really. Then again Dawkins has been a big surprise. I just wish the Bills were not shopping Glenn. Plug him in at RT next season. Or maybe even RG. No reason to weaken our talent there. 

 

 

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

So is this because TT runs arround like crazy, or is the OL actually, you know....good? 

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/946474844211818496

 

 

 

can't post the JPEG because it's too big...oh well

This points out the problem with stats generated by people other than the pro football professionals.   Pretty obvious to me that your rating on this list is NOT a measure of offensive line play.   It's a measure of something that is related to having a mobile quarterback.  Taylor, Brees, Carr, Mariota are all on the top of this list.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by Shaw66

[ducej11]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This points out the problem with stats generated by people other than the pro football professionals.   Pretty obvious to me that your rating on this list is NOT a measure of offensive line play.   It's a measure of something that is related to having a mobile quarterback.  Taylor, Brees, Carr, Mariota are all on the top of this list.  

 

I agree. I have real issues with Pro Football Focus in general rating individual players. They are watching the film and I think on some plays you can probably give a grade, but they have NO IDEA what the players actual responsibility was on a given play. A player can be way out of position who just happens to make a play because of it and they will rate them really well on that play but in the film room, the player will probably get torn apart for being out of position. I hate how much people rely on this third party company to determine how good or bad a player is.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, ducej11 said:

 

I agree. I have real issues with Pro Football Focus in general rating individual players. They are watching the film and I think on some plays you can probably give a grade, but they have NO IDEA what the players actual responsibility was on a given play. A player can be way out of position who just happens to make a play because of it and they will rate them really well on that play but in the film room, the player will probably get torn apart for being out of position. I hate how much people rely on this third party company to determine how good or bad a player is.

They are credible. The ratings are typically accurate. Not 100%.

[hemma]

 "Throw it!  Throw it!  Throw it!"

[ducej11]

4 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

They are credible. The ratings are typically accurate. Not 100%.

 

What makes you say they are credible and they are accurate?

Edited December 28, 2017 by ducej11

[Forward Progress]

For the first ten weeks of the season, I held a burning cross outside of Ducasse's home.  He's been playing at the NFL QB level for the last few weeks, in case you hadn't noticed.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, ducej11 said:

 

What makes you say they are credible and they are accurate?

Many NFL teams have paid them for research. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

They've definitely had some stinker games, but for the most part they've done pretty well.  The 2nd jets game sticks out in my mind as a game where they really disappointed.

[Dadonkadonk]

1 hour ago, westerndecline said:

I'll put it this way the o-line has not been the problem past 3 years

Not true.  The O-line has never been fully healthy and has always had issues with pass protection.  Even when Glenn is healthy the right side has been below average at best.

Yes TT holds the ball too long, but he escapes many more sacks than he takes. 

Ducasse has looked better.  Mills is probably not the worst RT in the league but probably bottom 5.

Best hope is Glenn is healthy and Dawkins replaces Mills.  Hope McDumbass doesn't trade him for a conditional 7th round pick. I think it is less than 50/50 Glenn is back.

[ducej11]

1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Many NFL teams have paid them for research. 

 

Couple of things here. What did they pay for? I highly highly doubt if they paid anything it had to do with the players and how they perform. My guess is IF, and it's a big IF, any NFL team ever paid them a dime, it had more to do with scheme and tendencies. Maybe even tendencies of individual players sure. I am not saying PFF doesn't have some value, it's just not in evaluating every player on every play since they had no idea what the responsibility is.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

So is this because TT runs arround like crazy, or is the OL actually, you know....good? 

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/946474844211818496

 

can't post the JPEG because it's too big...oh well

 

 

ESPN and PFF don't agree.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

ESPN and PFF don't agree.

They do agree about Saints Raiders Titans.  But you have to wonfer about the quality of ratings when the Bills are at the tip of one list and the bottom of another.  

 

It's all based on amateurs evaluating film.  That's a joke. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

They do agree about Saints Raiders Titans.  But you have to wonfer about the quality of ratings when the Bills are at the tip of one list and the bottom of another.  

 

It's all based on amateurs evaluating film.  That's a joke. 

 

Hard to reconcile such a disparity. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

They've definitely had some stinker games, but for the most part they've done pretty well.  The 2nd jets game sticks out in my mind as a game where they really disappointed.

Chargers game was no picnic either. That one definitely sticks out as well.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Chargers game was no picnic either. That one definitely sticks out as well.

Yeah - Peterman didn't have a ton of time and the game was blown open by the 2nd half.  Tyrod against theJets was just under constant pressure with the 5 man stunts and the o-line was collapsing all game.

[8-8 Forever?]

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Not really. Then again Dawkins has been a big surprise. I just wish the Bills were not shopping Glenn. Plug him in at RT next season. Or maybe even RG. No reason to weaken our talent there. 

 

 

I have thought for awhile that Glenn goes to RT.  

[The Now Moment]

32 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

ESPN and PFF don't agree.

The PFFs stats could be based on how long the QB has to throw the ball and with Tyrod holding onto it longer than most QBs...it wouldn't be surprising that they are rated high.  They give up a lot of pressures after several seconds of blocking and that counts as a pressure for ESPN but for PFF they recognize that the offensive line is asked to block for an extended amount of time and have done fairly well with it??  Just a guess.

 

Dawkins has been nothing short of great.  He's often out in front of Mccoy as the lead blocker on a gashing run down the field.  He's been impressive.

[fansince88]

I'm having a tough time understanding this post because the link does not work.

 

[The Now Moment]

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Not really. Then again Dawkins has been a big surprise. I just wish the Bills were not shopping Glenn. Plug him in at RT next season. Or maybe even RG. No reason to weaken our talent there. 

 

 

While I like the idea and am all for it, he's gotta be healthy and just hasn't been.  Hoping he'll turn it around next year

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

The PFFs stats could be based on how long the QB has to throw the ball and with Tyrod holding onto it longer than most QBs...it wouldn't be surprising that they are rated high.  They give up a lot of pressures after several seconds of blocking and that counts as a pressure for ESPN but for PFF they recognize that the offensive line is asked to block for an extended amount of time and have done fairly well with it??  Just a guess.

 

Dawkins has been nothing short of great.  He's often out in front of Mccoy as the lead blocker on a gashing run down the field.  He's been impressive.

 

Your guess on PFF sounds plausible, but the OL did struggle with PassPro in a few games with the TNF NYJ and LAC games immediately coming to mind.

 

Dawkins has been good, but great seems like an overstatement. He's better in the run game at this stage of his career. 

[The Now Moment]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your guess on PFF sounds plausible, but the OL did struggle with PassPro in a few games with the TNF NYJ and LAC games immediately coming to mind.

 

Dawkins has been good, but great seems like an overstatement. He's better in the run game at this stage of his career. 

For a rookie thrust into the lineup at LT...he's been pretty great.  

 

Every offensive line has a few games that aren't great.  It happens.  Those teams have solid D-lines

Edited December 29, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Dopey]

12 minutes ago, 8-8 Forever? said:

I have thought for awhile that Glenn goes to RT.  

I don't think he'll have a problem with that, as long as we don't ask for a pay cut due to being a rt now and not a Lt. If we do, he declines and he's trade bait. Is he worth that $ as a rt?

[THEHARDTRUTH]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This points out the problem with stats generated by people other than the pro football professionals.   Pretty obvious to me that your rating on this list is NOT a measure of offensive line play.   It's a measure of something that is related to having a mobile quarterback.  Taylor, Brees, Carr, Mariota are all on the top of this list.  

Cmon. You just dont understand the coaxial coefficient as it relates to Beltrams theorem of offensive line spacial variations multiplied by the Miriam transfer efficiencies of quarterback drop variations.

[Big Turk]

46 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

They do agree about Saints Raiders Titans.  But you have to wonfer about the quality of ratings when the Bills are at the tip of one list and the bottom of another.  

 

It's all based on amateurs evaluating film.  That's a joke. 

 

You have to read what its measuring.

 

PFF is weighting sacks allowed higher than  pressures on a per snap basis.  Tyrod likely is getting away from a lot of sacks by using his mobility.  Thsi does not mean he isn't pressured on the play, just that he is able to get away from it.  

 

Sicne PFF is weighing sacks more heavily, Bills get a higher grade.

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your guess on PFF sounds plausible, but the OL did struggle with PassPro in a few games with the TNF NYJ and LAC games immediately coming to mind.

 

Dawkins has been good, but great seems like an overstatement. He's better in the run game at this stage of his career. 

 

Dawkins pulling to the outside as a lead blocker downfield is going to be a staple of the Bills run game for a long time to come...he has led several long runs by McCoy this year on that play...including both long runs against san Diego on the 2 play McCoy drive.

[westerndecline]

I have to admit when I'm wrong but your ducasse has played at a very high level the past month and he's someone that we should definitely hang on to some guys just get it very late in their career I do believe you passed was a first-round pick but had no experience entering the league

Glenn 

Incognito

Wood

Ducasse

Dawkins

 

Mills

Miller

Groy

 

Plus they will add some guard or ot high

That's as good as you're going to get in the NFL that's the best you can really hope for after that everything else hinges on the quarterback

[26CornerBlitz]

Interesting that PFF deleted the tweet with the Bills OL as the best at Pass Blocking. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[3rdand12]

13 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Intersting that PFF deleted the tweet with the Bills OL as the best at Pass Blocking. 

Not much for stats. So much context is needed.
Watching the Bills O line all season via TV , i felt the O line was pretty poor at pass pro. and struggled 50% + in the run game.

They really have not been a strong feature from play to play.
 Shady has a nice number  breaking plays, but his average Yardage is below league average. 4.1 maybe ? compared to 4.2 ??

 

been hit and miss all year IMO.

 

Dawkins has done his work.  I Like that Kid longterm

Edited December 29, 2017 by 3rdand12

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, 3rdand12 said:

Not much for stats. So much context is needed.
Watching the Bills O line all season via TV , i felt the O line was pretty poor at pass pro. and struggled 50% + in the run game.

They really have not been a strong feature from play to play.
 Shady has a nice number gigger plays, but his average is his lowest and below league average.

 

been hit and miss all year IMO.

 

Dawkins has done his work.  I Like that Kid longterm

 

Good breakdown here. 

[3rdand12]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Good breakdown here. 

I had to edit, sorry for spelling errors again...

 

old eyes

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

For the first ten weeks of the season, I held a burning cross outside of Ducasse's home.  He's been playing at the NFL QB level for the last few weeks, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

Will make sure to let those at peace bridge know.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Taylor in the game.......pass rush gets muted.

 

Peterman in the game.......pass rush teed off.

 

Taylor runs into his share of sacks as he tries to extend plays into big plays.........but most weeks he changes the gameplan of defensive fronts by making them play more contain and less attack.  

 

That was VERY helpful when they could back the safeties up with deep threats like Watkins and Goodwin and then run into tentative fronts(often with a spy hovering off the LOS rather than attacking).     That's how your RB's lead the league in yards before contact and average 5.5 ypc.

 

This is not a good pass blocking OL in general..........I am concerned about Dawkins at LT next year for a pocket passer.........it's a lot different blocking for a QB who can buy nearly 1/3 more time to throw on every snap like Tyrod.

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

 

Tyrod holds the ball too long, which is one of his problems, and can reflect poorly on the offensive line.

Tyrod doesn't open holes for the RB, the OL does!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 hours ago, ducej11 said:

 

Couple of things here. What did they pay for? I highly highly doubt if they paid anything it had to do with the players and how they perform. My guess is IF, and it's a big IF, any NFL team ever paid them a dime, it had more to do with scheme and tendencies. Maybe even tendencies of individual players sure. I am not saying PFF doesn't have some value, it's just not in evaluating every player on every play since they had no idea what the responsibility is.

PFF says they have 27 teams as clients. To what extent I don't know. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am concerned about Dawkins at LT next year for a pocket passer.

 

Me too.  He has played well for a rookie... but he is absolutely not yet a guy I am ready to trust in year 2 with the blindside of my highly prized rookie Quarterback.  It's why my preference is to do everything we can to get Glenn healthy and keep him for 1 more season.  

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This points out the problem with stats generated by people other than the pro football professionals.   Pretty obvious to me that your rating on this list is NOT a measure of offensive line play.   It's a measure of something that is related to having a mobile quarterback.  Taylor, Brees, Carr, Mariota are all on the top of this list.  

 

I agree with this, 100%.

 

However, I will also opine that that o-line - throughout Taylor's tenure - has been, overall, very good.