Is the 2018 QB class highly overrated?

[simpleman]

I don't see moving up if it costs you more than one of your 1st rounds, a 2nd and possibly another latter round. We have too many serious holes to fill at OL, DL, LB and WR. We need to first build an Oline to protect the QB if we get one, or they are doomed to failure.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Lamar Jackson is NOT going to make it as a QB in the NFL. He's not. He's a great athlete who's future lies likely at WR.

 

Several GMs looking for QBs will agree with this, and they will all be looking for new jobs within 3 years.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, simpleman said:

I don't see moving up if it costs you more than one of your 1st rounds, a 2nd and possibly another latter round. We have too many serious holes to fill at OL, DL, LB and WR. We need to first build an Oline to protect the QB if we get one, or they are doomed to failure.

 

....ABSOLUTELY agree bud.....MUST play these draft capital cards smart (best position in YEARS)......how 'bout Danny Boy Snyder's ransom for RG II 1/8?....Ditka for Ricky?.....Vikes for Herschel?...or closer to home Donohole for Losman?......

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would be ok with any of the 4 QB's Darnold, Allen, Mayfield or Rudolph. One should drop to us.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

My numbers are dependent on Darnold coming out. I would say that Rosen, Darnold and Allen/Jackson (someone will love the talent) end up in the top 5 and Baker shortly thereafter. That’s 5 in the first IMO. 

Have you watched Jackson this year? He’s been even better than last year. He’s completing over 60% while staying at 8.7 yards per attempt. His TD to INT is about 5:1. He’s a QB that can move but he’s absolutely a QB.

 

I have a feeling Lamar Jackson will still be there at our original first pick. Teams are going to miss him like they missed Russell Wilson because they don't learn. Wouldn't surprise me if Josh Allen gets drafted before him, maybe even by the Bills.

[GoBills808]

Goddamit I certainly !@#$ing hope not.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I have a feeling Lamar Jackson will still be there at our original first pick. Teams are going to miss him like they missed Russell Wilson because they don't learn. Wouldn't surprise me if Josh Allen gets drafted before him, maybe even by the Bills.

 

 

....so is it substance over style or style over substance?.....is it a Jackson/Watson/Wilson type kid that fits?....OR....what a team perceives is the more prototypical NFL ready pocket passer type?......does a spread/shotgun/Air Raid type invoke fear?......other than those questions, I say the whole picture is as clear as mud.....

[Mat68]

4 to 6 Qbs could be in contention to be picked in the first round this year.  Darnold and Rosen are the top 2.  Then its personal preference.  Lamar Jackson looks like Mike Vick 2.0.  6-2 220 and will probabaly break the record for fastest combine speed for a Qb and wont be surprised if he grades out as one of the most athletic player in the draft.  With the success of Watson I think Lamar Jackson is def top 10 maybe top 5.  Next is Allen from Wyoming.   unique guy to scout because of decline in production year over year.  People that like him will point to 5 of his skill players from last years team floating around NFL rosters, and this years skill players are not that good.  His frame, Arm strength and mobility will blow away anyone in a workout.  There will be dicussions on who has more potential Jackson or Allen.  I think Allen goes top 15 around the same place Mahomes was drafted.  I expect Mayfield to dominate the TV and media over the next month.  He will win the Heisman and is also making Oklahoma the odds on favorite to win the title.  If he goes through both SEC defenses and beat Georgia an Alabama in stunning fashion he will shoot up the draft board.  I think in interviews he will do very well and come across as fiery not cocky or immature.  He will be talked about as the most accurate passer in the draft but in shorts during workouts will not impress like the others.  Later part of Rd 1 i think a team who missed out on their guy take Mayfield.  The propect that is the hardest to gauge imo is Randolph some sites have him as the top QB others dont have him in the top top 5.  He has the size and the look of a franchise Qb does he have the arm and accuracy?  If he impresses I could see him going after Allen and before Mayfield.  Or he may slip to the end of rd 1 or day 3.  But to say this class has diminished like years past is not true at the least.  

[JaCrispy]

37 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

'Crispy:

 

....don't see Falk's name on anyone's radar anymore....what happened to the kid to vanish?......had read some decent stuff about him earlier.....

I really liked him early on as well, going back to last year...

 

First, I think he padded his stats against a lot of weak competition.

 

Second, he was benched, not once, but twice... this should send up some red flags because he is a senior and seems to be regressing.

 

Third, he plays in a gimmicky offense where the majority of his throws are bubble screens and throws to the flat...you rarely see NFL type throws (although he has flashed on occasion) and his arm strength is simply average.

 

Fourth, he wasn’t recruited out of high school...while not always the case, often this could mean that schools don’t necessarily see the potential for greatness.

 

With regards to intangibles, it appears he may lack the grit, aggressiveness, or moxy I think one needs to succeed at the NFL...every time I’ve watched him he never seems to be enjoying himself and his body language often appears lethargic and indifferent. 

 

I could honestly see see him going 5th round- UFA

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....so is it substance over style or style over substance?.....is it a Jackson/Watson/Wilson type kid that fits?....OR....what a team perceives is the more prototypical NFL ready pocket passer type?......does a spread/shotgun/Air Raid type invoke fear?......other than those questions, I say the whole picture is as clear as mud.....

 

To me Lamar Jackson is the same prospect as Deshaun Watson but with better accuracy and less interceptions. I think he should be the #1 pick although I've come around on Mayfield a lot too. Those are my top 2 for sure, then Rosen and Darnold. I have a really bad feeling about the Bills and Josh Allen though. Coming from a team with Can Newton the new regime might see Allen as that guy and that terrifies me.

[H2o]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

My numbers are dependent on Darnold coming out. I would say that Rosen, Darnold and Allen/Jackson (someone will love the talent) end up in the top 5 and Baker shortly thereafter. That’s 5 in the first IMO. 

Have you watched Jackson this year? He’s been even better than last year. He’s completing over 60% while staying at 8.7 yards per attempt. His TD to INT is about 5:1. He’s a QB that can move but he’s absolutely a QB.

Yes, I have absolutely watched Jackson this year and last year. He's not an NFL QB, he's just an exceptional athlete. He is not the new Deshaun Watson by any means. Don't get it twisted. You can spit whatever stats you want, but I hope to God that he is not anywhere on our list of QB's we are looking at. It would be like drafting a Kaep/Tyrod clone with worse accuracy. No thanks. 

[Augie]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Rosen or Darnold will be the first QB taken if they both come out. The other will be the 2nd. I still think Darnold should head back to school for another year, and he might, but the $$$ is enticing for a 20 year old. Mayfield will be the 3rd QB. Allen's stock has dropped, but Wyoming isn't exactly chocked full of talent around him. He has great athleticism, a great arm, but the questions about him revolve around his consistency. Is that due to the lack of talent around him? Maybe, maybe not. Lamar Jackson is NOT going to make it as a QB in the NFL. He's not. He's a great athlete who's future lies likely at WR. The much vaunted class doesn't look quite as deep as before, but there are still 3 or 4 guys who have the potential to be the answer for some franchise. 

 

It will be very interesting to see what he does. He should be a wealthy man regardless, but one extra year on the back end of his career could be worth north of $30 million. That’s a mountain of cash to leave on the table. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Yes, I have absolutely watched Jackson this year and last year. He's not an NFL QB, he's just an exceptional athlete. He is not the new Deshaun Watson by any means. Don't get it twisted. You can spit whatever stats you want, but I hope to God that he is not anywhere on our list of QB's we are looking at. It would be like drafting a Kaep/Tyrod clone with worse accuracy. No thanks. 

Why isn’t he like Watson? He’s a more polished passer than Watson was at the same point and he’s absolutely a better athlete. I don’t think Jackson makes it to the Bills pick. People calling him a WR is beyond insulting. 

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

To me Lamar Jackson is the same prospect as Deshaun Watson but with better accuracy and less interceptions. I think he should be the #1 pick although I've come around on Mayfield a lot too. Those are my top 2 for sure, then Rosen and Darnold. I have a really bad feeling about the Bills and Josh Allen though. Coming from a team with Can Newton the new regime might see Allen as that guy and that terrifies me.

Intersting take with the Carolina connection.  I think Allen does posses the most potential and upside.  Probably the least pro ready so a Vet Qb would need to be on the roster.  Lamar Jackson may intrigue them with his abilities much like cam.  Jackson has a cannon as well.  

[GoBills808]

I do not think Jackson is a good prospect.

[H2o]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Why isn’t he like Watson? He’s a more polished passer than Watson was at the same point and he’s absolutely a better athlete. I don’t think Jackson makes it to the Bills pick. People calling him a WR is beyond insulting. 

You can't be serious? A more polished passer than Watson?  Did you EVER watch Watson play? Watson had that "it" factor and could throw the ball all over the field from day one. It's not insulting by any means to think his position lies elsewhere in the NFL. If anything, it speaks volumes about the overall talent of an athlete he is. He will not make it as a QB in the NFL. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, H2o said:

You can't be serious? A more polished passer than Watson?  Did you EVER watch Watson play? Watson had that "it" factor and could throw the ball all over the field from day one. It's not insulting by any means to think his position lies elsewhere in the NFL. If anything, it speaks volumes about the overall talent of an athlete he is. He will not make it as a QB in the NFL. 

I watched a ton of Watson and liked him a lot.  Watson has NFL talent all over the place with him. Jackson has carried a trash offense by himself.

 

And yes it is extremely insulting. He is the reigning Heisman winner and a Heisman finalist again. He has one of the best arms in the draft. How come we try to switch positions of every athletic black QB? You even said “like Kaep/Tyrod” who are 2 of the best 30 QBs in the world. ?

 

It’s 2017, the mobile QB isn’t going away. We are going to see them keep coming in, even the black ones.

[Coastie]

Living here in Kentucky I have seen a lot of Jackson. His OL is bad, running game is average to below average and somehow he still is able to get the job done. Without him Louisville wins maybe five games each of the last two years. The one thing I have seen that concerns me is his balls will sometimes sail on him, my thought being he is too excited but that is a short term concern. 

 

I would love to pick him up with our first pick but I think once scouts talk to him and see him throw without having to run for his life he will move up boards and be gone top ten.

[westerndecline]

 Jackson is incredibly talented, he's Vick but an even better passer 

 

 

If he was white hed be called the next elway

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

31 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I really liked him early on as well, going back to last year...

 

First, I think he padded his stats against a lot of weak competition.

 

Second, he was benched, not once, but twice... this should send up some red flags because he is a senior and seems to be regressing.

 

Third, he plays in a gimmicky offense where the majority of his throws are bubble screens and throws to the flat...you rarely see NFL type throws (although he has flashed on occasion) and his arm strength is simply average.

 

Fourth, he wasn’t recruited out of high school...while not always the case, often this could mean that schools don’t necessarily see the potential for greatness.

 

With regards to intangibles, it appears he may lack the grit, aggressiveness, or moxy I think one needs to succeed at the NFL...every time I’ve watched him he never seems to be enjoying himself and his body language often appears lethargic and indifferent. 

 

I could honestly see see him going 5th round- UFA

 

 

...thanks bud....appreciate the insight......

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, xRUSHx said:

This is the class we need to swing big on at QB. They always wait or try to build first and wait on drafting one or with EJ move back and then grab one.

 

Problem is it lessens the chance of hitting on one. If there is any QB class to swing on it's this one. Fans have been waiting too long, if they do not swing this time this team is never going to get out of the longest playoffless hole in all of sports and fans are just going to end up jumping over the falls wondering why this team never buys a lottery QB ticket. If you never buy a ticket you will never win. Sadly for Tyrod it is why the bridge idea is dead with most fans, IMO we are all ready to jump.

 

Just do it, if you strike gold the dynasty starts if not you buy another ticket. If they keep avoiding going for one another decade will past of the exact same groundhogs day of new staffs and other teams backup QBs trying to get that one miracle season. Just do it we have been waiting long enough.

I actually agree with this.....qb is supposed to be one of the strength positions of this draft........I am a firm believer that you take players from strength positions because its about accumulating talent when it comes to the draft.

 

The qb we need is probably not on the team

 

We accumulated draft ammo for a reason......

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

To me Lamar Jackson is the same prospect as Deshaun Watson but with better accuracy and less interceptions. I think he should be the #1 pick although I've come around on Mayfield a lot too. Those are my top 2 for sure, then Rosen and Darnold. I have a really bad feeling about the Bills and Josh Allen though. Coming from a team with Can Newton the new regime might see Allen as that guy and that terrifies me.

 

You think Lamar Jackson is more accurate than Deshaun Watson???

 

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but I just am not seeing the same thing at all. I don't hate Jackson.... I just don't see a first round Quarterback at this stage. I have a low 2nd / high 3rd on him. The prospect I might more liken him to than Watson is Dak Prescott. 

 

I am with you on Josh Allen though. If the Bills draft him in the first two rounds let alone in the top 10 I will be mortified. 

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s a more polished passer than Watson was at the same point. 

 

Not for me and to be honest I don't even have it close. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

I actually agree with this.....qb is supposed to be one of the strength positions of this draft........I am a firm believer that you take players from strength positions because its about accumulating talent when it comes to the draft.

 

The qb we need is probably not on the team

 

We accumulated draft ammo for a reason......

 

....the track record with the QB spot is BELOW abysmal.......however thanks to Pegula's BIG check book, Beane has assembled a formidable (at least on paper) staff.....with 2018 draft capital, they damn well need to produce, but it is not and never will be an exact science....do your homework boyz and roll 'em..............

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You think Lamar Jackson is more accurate than Deshaun Watson???

 

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but I just am not seeing the same thing at all. I don't hate Jackson.... I just don't see a first round Quarterback at this stage. I have a low 2nd / high 3rd on him. The prospect I might more liken him to than Watson is Dak Prescott. 

 

I am with you on Josh Allen though. If the Bills draft him in the first two rounds let alone in the top 10 I will be mortified. 

 

Not for me and to be honest I don't even have it close. 

 

....Drafttek said OL/DL or DL/OL in the 1st and Falk in the 2nd (he's disappeared from the radar though)....so would you go OL/DL or DL/OL in the 1st and grab Jackson in the 2nd?..........

[H2o]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I watched a ton of Watson and liked him a lot.  Watson has NFL talent all over the place with him. Jackson has carried a trash offense by himself.

 

And yes it is extremely insulting. He is the reigning Heisman winner and a Heisman finalist again. He has one of the best arms in the draft. How come we try to switch positions of every athletic black QB? You even said “like Kaep/Tyrod” who are 2 of the best 30 QBs in the world. ?

 

It’s 2017, the mobile QB isn’t going away. We are going to see them keep coming in, even the black ones.

Dear God, don't start that bs. It has nothing to do with black or white. Don't pull an ESPN here. There are NUMEROUS Heisman winning QB's that didn't make it in the NFL. If he stays a QB then he won't make it either. Kaep and Tyrod are two of the most mediocre QB's in the world. Maybe none of the white guys playing QB are good enough athletes to make a switch in the NFL to another position? Have you ever thought about that? Tebow could have been a TE, but he said no. Edelman was a QB and made the switch. It's not about white or black, but paint it how ever makes your little heart happy.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You think Lamar Jackson is more accurate than Deshaun Watson???

 

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but I just am not seeing the same thing at all. I don't hate Jackson.... I just don't see a first round Quarterback at this stage. I have a low 2nd / high 3rd on him. The prospect I might more liken him to than Watson is Dak Prescott. 

 

I am with you on Josh Allen though. If the Bills draft him in the first two rounds let alone in the top 10 I will be mortified. 

 

Not for me and to be honest I don't even have it close. 

I know where you stand on Watson. I like Watson and loved him in college. I’d say this season that Jackson took that step for me. In addition, me made a handful of throws that no other QB in this class can make (with the exception of Allen who is an enigma). He still has room to grow too. He wouldn’t be my first choice (Rosen) but I wouldn’t hate him at all.

 

I was taking exception to the suggestion that he is a WR. Nathan Peterman is a heading QB that throws on time and Lamar Jackson is a wide receiver?!? That is not the first time that I have seen that thrown around on here and it is just ridiculous.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....the track record with the QB spot is BELOW abysmal.......however thanks to Pegula's BIG check book, Beane has assembled a formidable (at least on paper) staff.....with 2018 draft capital, they damn well need to produce, but it is not and never will be an exact science....do your homework boyz and roll 'em..............

 

....Drafttek said OL/DL or DL/OL in the 1st and Falk in the 2nd (he's disappeared from the radar though)....so would you go OL/DL or DL/OL in the 1st and grab Jackson in the 2nd?..........

 

If Jackson was there then of course I would. I think he will go a round higher than I have him graded. I see him off the board between about pick 26 and 36. I would not be against the Bills taking Jackson in the 1st at all. We need to stop punting on QBs... but I do think that is a projection pick because if Lamar Jackson is already anywhere near his ceiling then he isn't an NFL Franchise QB.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Dear God, don't start that bs. It has nothing to do with black or white. Don't pull an ESPN here. There are NUMEROUS Heisman winning QB's that didn't make it in the NFL. If he stays a QB then he won't make it either. Kaep and Tyrod are two of the most mediocre QB's in the world. Maybe none of the white guys playing QB are good enough athletes to make a switch in the NFL to another position? Have you ever thought about that? Tebow could have been a TE, but he said no. Edelman was a QB and made the switch. It's not about white or black, but paint it how ever makes your little heart happy.

Peterman throws on time and is a heady QB, Jackson is a WR?!? 

[GunnerBill]

Peterman sucks. I am not sure how that is relevant though. 

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

You think Lamar Jackson is more accurate than Deshaun Watson???

 

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but I just am not seeing the same thing at all. I don't hate Jackson.... I just don't see a first round Quarterback at this stage.

 

I know better than to argue with you about QBs, you know your stuff. That being said a lot of film analysts I follow and trust love Lamar Jackson and think he should go 1st overall. I've been really impressed with what I've seen but I doubt I've watched nearly as much film as you.

[H2o]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Peterman throws on time and is a heady QB, Jackson is a WR?!? 

I'm not a Peterman advocate. We need a QB and Jackson isn't an NFL caliber one. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Jackson was there then of course I would. I think he will go a round higher than I have him graded. I see him off the board between about pick 26 and 36. I would not be against the Bills taking Jackson in the 1st at all. We need to stop punting on QBs... but I do think that is a projection pick because if Lamar Jackson is already anywhere near his ceiling then he isn't an NFL Franchise QB.

...and as you know GB, NOBODY has the answer to that....if so, a BUST would never happen..........so you poke, prod, analyze, interview, test, work out all of them, put the names in a hat and draw....

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Nope, this class was thought of as a great QB class and that hasn’t changed. QB is a strength of this draft. There will probably be 3 QBs in the top 5 picks, maybe 4-5 in the top 10. 

 

Seems to me there also are a lot of teams wanting a QB this year too.

Better hope Jimmy G. plays great for the 49ers in the remaining games.

If not the top 3 QBs could go to Browns, 49ers and Giants.

Not to mention Jets, Cardinals and others.

 

I think it may not be as easy as some think for us to get in a position to get "our guy".

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know better than to argue with you about QBs, you know your stuff. That being said a lot of film analysts I follow and trust love Lamar Jackson and think he should go 1st overall. I've been really impressed with what I've seen but I doubt I've watched nearly as much film as you.

 

Let me be clear I think there is a lot of good on Jackson but there is bad sprinkled in. The reason I make the Dak comparison is I had similar notes on Dak as I have on Jackson. Throws a good deep ball, spotty intermediate range accuracy, inconsistent feet and the ball too often doesn't come out on time. When it all lines up and works in sync there is a lot of good in Jackson's game. And if you could get that consistently then the potential is unlimited. The ceiling is very high and his ability to use his legs is a plus because like for Dak and Deshaun (though he is more of a runner than those two) it will buy him time early in the NFL and allow him to move the chains while he learns to play against NFL defenses. But if is at or close to what he ends up being now then he is a lower end starting NFL QB and that to me is a 2nd round grade not a 1st round grade. 

 

My full reports will be on here sometime in the new year but that is a snapshot of what I see on Jackson. 

[Jay_Fixit]

57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I do not think Jackson is a good prospect.

I don’t either. And his accuracy is definitely not better than Watson’s. Not even close.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...and as you know GB, NOBODY has the answer to that....if so, a BUST would never happen..........so you poke, prod, analyze, interview, test, work out all of them, put the names in a hat and draw....

 

Of course. So you try and find the one you feel best about. I wouldn't hate Jackson - I would hate Allen early - but there are others I would prefer.

Edited December 9, 2017 by GunnerBill

[Jay_Fixit]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know better than to argue with you about QBs, you know your stuff. That being said a lot of film analysts I follow and trust love Lamar Jackson and think he should go 1st overall. I've been really impressed with what I've seen but I doubt I've watched nearly as much film as you.

Jackson plays in a QB friendly system and is a 57% passer with over 1000 attempts.

 

His accuracy is pretty marginal.

[Kirby Jackson]

15 minutes ago, H2o said:

I'm not a Peterman advocate. We need a QB and Jackson isn't an NFL caliber one. 

Ok

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Peterman sucks. I am not sure how that is relevant though. 

 

...c'mon....you're much smarter than that.....the 5th rounder had minis, OTA's, TC and some spot pre-season duty followed by the" thrown to the wolves disaster" in SD and he sucks?.. Jesus, sure glad Peyton didn't start his 3-13 career in Buffalo...think you woulda been his Uber ride to the airport.........

Edited December 9, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Peterman sucks. I am not sure how that is relevant though. 

Just picked some random qb that isn’t good that everyone accepts as a QB. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...c'mon....you're much smarter than that.....the 5th rounder had minis, OTA's, TC and some spot pre-season duty followed by the" thrown to the wolves disaster" in SD and he sucks?.. Jesus, sure glad Peyton didn't start his 3-13 career in Buffalo...think you woulda been his Uber ride to the airport.........

 

Oh I thought he sucked way before the LA debacle. If Peterman proves to be a long term NFL Quarterback I will have got him very wrong and my hands will be held up. I had him borderline undraftable.