Josh Rosen's Comments on academics and football

[Spiderweb]

 

doesn't matter. He didn't graduate from Harvard.

 

 

 

Which makes him a crappy locker room lawyer

 

At least Fitz kept his educated mouth shut.

.. and your opinion is so much more valuable than Rosen's.

 

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Guest NeckBeard]

I think that Rosen is right, no matter how much he's said a lot of what's already been said. I am curious, tho, as to what happens when you get a full ride at a university only to turn around 3 years later, after taking "blah" classes just to get through, then ditch college for the NFL. I honestly don't know the answer here. Certainly you forfeit your scholarship, right? But does the college recognize any benefit from the departure of a student-athlete, or do they just find somebody else and hand out another scholarship? I assume the latter, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

Now, certainly, I respect the aim of having student-athletes. In my lifetime I've known 3 guys who've done well enough at the high school level to get some kind of student-athlete deal at a respectable university. The first guy went to a well-known college in CA, did well in school, and then went in the second round to the Chargers, and from there spent a decade with the club. Great guy, smart, hard working, and the shining star of why athletics can open doors (to college) for those who have huge financial constraints. The second guy went to a respected college in the east, did well in school, never assumed that his ball career would continue after college, got tire kicks from several NFL teams, ended up in camps and once on a practice squad, then started his regular career three years after pursuing his dream. Same as the last guy, and I root for guys like that. The third guy went to an ivy school on a non-football athletic scholarship, did awesome in school, and started a career after that.

 

I don't want to block people from going to college even though I am against paying college football players beyond the bounds of a scholarship. I do think that it's absolutely insane that the NFL largely uses colleges as its farm system, and that a bunch of players get the benefit of a free ride in college just so they can do well enough in school to turn around and play in the NFL. I guess what I'm asking the NCAA experts of TBD is if it's feasible to have college players who leave to the NFL (without graduating) be counted against a pool of scholarship money that's been preallocated? Is this a real thing? Is it a possibility?

[Bill from NYC]

Look someone who didn't read the article. Big time schools push you to certain majors and classes so they don't interfere with football. His point was the schools aren't looking out for the best interests of the athletes. Which they aren't.

 

Ohio State flat out told Robert Smith he couldn't go to medical school because his classes would interfere with football. The NCAA is a sham.

He didn't need (imo) to single out Alabama. I hope that he plays them at some point and gets his ass kicked.

[thenorthremembers]

The topic he is speaking about has been beat to death. Aside from the free tuition the athletes are given, they also have the ability to walk away with a degree which will make them a great deal more money throughout their lifetime than they could have ever expected without college. Do they make the money up front? Officially no (unofficially, how many of you have driven a Cadillac in college?), but make no mistake, in some way shape or form football gives them the opportunity they may not have had without it.

 

If having "two full time jobs" is too much for someone, they have the free will to quit one or both of those and deal with the consequences. No one is keeping them in the insufferable situation. If they dont like the situation, they have free reign to leave. I have a very hard time drumming up empathy for people in advantageous situations who complain because their situation isnt more advantageous.

 

Average people go to work everyday for billion dollar companies in a lot less enviable situations with less personal financial gains, and somehow still appreciate the paycheck. It's pretty clear Rosen has never been one of those people.

 

On the football side of things, his game tape is underwhelming and reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya hype from last summer.

[billsfan60]

No need to change the standards. Stupid people manage to find a way to eliminate themselves (look no further than Johnny football). As a high school teacher in Mississippi I saw where the real problem lies. Rosen needs to hope some 300 pound defensive tackle whose only way out of the ghetto was football doesn't read this and then gets him in his sights this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Oh waaa...crybaby.

 

Welcome to life.

 

I work full time, go to school full time(14 credit hours this semester---5 classes) in pursuit of my computer science degree which I don't even really need because I already work full time as a computer programmer, have a wife and kids, go the gym religiously, and am the lead developer on an open source Football game being developed and worked on by 10-15 people.

 

Pretty sure I'm a little busier than he is and I'm not complaining.

Are you also generating millions of dollars and not getting a cent of it too?

 

It's amazing how many people missed the point of the article. It's probably the media's fault because they sensationalize everything. He will be fine. But the schools aren't truly interested in the best interests of their student athletes. They use and abuse these kids.

 

And he made very average talents like Jordan Payton (5th rounder) & Thomas Duarte (7th) look very good in college. If he stays healthy, he will challenge for the #1 overall pick and I hope he falls.

No need to change the standards. Stupid people manage to find a way to eliminate themselves (look no further than Johnny football). As a high school teacher in Mississippi I saw where the real problem lies. Rosen needs to hope some 300 pound defensive tackle whose only way out of the ghetto was football doesn't read this and then gets him in his sights this year.

I definitely could guess you were from Mississippi.

The topic he is speaking about has been beat to death. Aside from the free tuition the athletes are given, they also have the ability to walk away with a degree which will make them a great deal more money throughout their lifetime than they could have ever expected without college. Do they make the money up front? Officially no (unofficially, how many of you have driven a Cadillac in college?), but make no mistake, in some way shape or form football gives them the opportunity they may not have had without it.

 

If having "two full time jobs" is too much for someone, they have the free will to quit one or both of those and deal with the consequences. No one is keeping them in the insufferable situation. If they dont like the situation, they have free reign to leave. I have a very hard time drumming up empathy for people in advantageous situations who complain because their situation isnt more advantageous.

 

Average people go to work everyday for billion dollar companies in a lot less enviable situations with less personal financial gains, and somehow still appreciate the paycheck. It's pretty clear Rosen has never been one of those people.

 

On the football side of things, his game tape is underwhelming and reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya hype from last summer.

It's also pretty clear you've never been a college athlete. Kids from good financial homes and school struggle in college. Some of these athletes are being completely unprepared at colleges.

 

Also, why is the NBA and NFL the only sports that make you go to college? I wonder what the difference is between those sports and tennis or golf.

[Billzgobowlin]

Gee I hope we don't draft him. I get the feeling he won't even be first round material. He has a long delivery and doesn't look like he surveys the field too well.

[billsfan60]

sorry Chief, born and bred in Upstate New York. College in Albany then lots of years in Niagara Falls. Life took me South. Your comment shows me why you agree with Rosen.

[Guest NeckBeard]

The topic he is speaking about has been beat to death. Aside from the free tuition the athletes are given, they also have the ability to walk away with a degree which will make them a great deal more money throughout their lifetime than they could have ever expected without college. Do they make the money up front? Officially no (unofficially, how many of you have driven a Cadillac in college?), but make no mistake, in some way shape or form football gives them the opportunity they may not have had without it.

 

If having "two full time jobs" is too much for someone, they have the free will to quit one or both of those and deal with the consequences. No one is keeping them in the insufferable situation. If they dont like the situation, they have free reign to leave. I have a very hard time drumming up empathy for people in advantageous situations who complain because their situation isnt more advantageous.

 

Average people go to work everyday for billion dollar companies in a lot less enviable situations with less personal financial gains, and somehow still appreciate the paycheck. It's pretty clear Rosen has never been one of those people.

 

On the football side of things, his game tape is underwhelming and reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya hype from last summer.

 

I will challenge you on one point; how many student-athletes out of all scholarship players actually make a mint in the NFL?

 

To my question earlier in this thread, if colleges are really and truly interested in educating people (irony strongly implied here), then they should absolutely be held accountable for bringing players on board who do nothing in terms of academics, but who are just there in wait of the NFL draft. This would mean capping scholarships, and having "dead money" against players who've left school for a pro league before graduation. Certainly it would seem that the NCAA enacting real policies for a change would alter the trajectories of a number of teams (in the short term), but I find it impossible to believe that college stadiums would be vacant on the weekends as a result.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The topic he is speaking about has been beat to death. Aside from the free tuition the athletes are given, they also have the ability to walk away with a degree which will make them a great deal more money throughout their lifetime than they could have ever expected without college. Do they make the money up front? Officially no (unofficially, how many of you have driven a Cadillac in college?), but make no mistake, in some way shape or form football gives them the opportunity they may not have had without it.

 

If having "two full time jobs" is too much for someone, they have the free will to quit one or both of those and deal with the consequences. No one is keeping them in the insufferable situation. If they dont like the situation, they have free reign to leave. I have a very hard time drumming up empathy for people in advantageous situations who complain because their situation isnt more advantageous.

 

Average people go to work everyday for billion dollar companies in a lot less enviable situations with less personal financial gains, and somehow still appreciate the paycheck. It's pretty clear Rosen has never been one of those people.

 

On the football side of things, his game tape is underwhelming and reminds me a lot of the Brad Kaaya hype from last summer.

 

So here is a list of the top-10 majors for college football players. Just curious, since you seem to be "up" on these matters: what is a typical entry-level salary for a degree in sociology, communications, liberal arts, and general studies?

What percentage of students graduating with these degrees have found a job in their field within 6 months? What is the 4 year or 5 year graduation rate for a kid on a football scholarship?

 

What happens if a football player at a major program tries to study something that will pretty well guarantee him a good paying job, such as engineering or computer science or even nursing?

 

Please be consistent. If a sport is someone's ticket to college, who wouldn't otherwise get to college, then he doesn't have "free will" to walk away from one of those "full time jobs", right? He can either quit both, or stick with both. He doesn't have the option to quit football and keep college.

[Big Turk]

No offense, but it appears from your post that you have NO idea how demanding the athletic schedule is for players in on big-time D1 sports teams. Oh - and Alabama's football team alone generated $103.9 million in revenue last year.

I'm sure it's demanding, but so is everything I just listed as well..

 

Bet they never spent a few hours trying to figure out why code that looks perfect and throws no errors doesn't work either...that's demanding too...I mean let's be real, what they are doing is not harder than what many other people do on a regular basis.

[DrDawkinstein]

Rosen is hardly the problem. I suggest reading this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/5/30/15704320/ucla-football-2017-preview-schedule-roster .

Again, read above. He's been a lot better player than you suggest. Look at that run game. It has been historically awful the past two seasons.

From the broken record dept: read the link above before you judge his game.

 

I never said he payed poorly. I just plain dont like him and dont think he has the grit to be a long-lasting NFL franchise QB. I will get a lot of entertainment in following him this year and hope he changes my mind. But as of today, August 9th, no thanks.

I'm sure it's demanding, but so is everything I just listed as well..

 

Bet they never spent a few hours trying to figure out why code that looks perfect and throws no errors doesn't work either...that's demanding too...I mean let's be real, what they are doing is not harder than what many other people do on a regular basis.

 

Its not about the difficulty, its about the simple time demand. And most of the college coding savants arent keeping even part time jobs either. They're making money from their craft on the side.

Edited August 9, 2017 by DrDareustein

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

I will challenge you on one point; how many student-athletes out of all scholarship players actually make a mint in the NFL?

 

To my question earlier in this thread, if colleges are really and truly interested in educating people (irony strongly implied here), then they should absolutely be held accountable for bringing players on board who do nothing in terms of academics, but who are just there in wait of the NFL draft. This would mean capping scholarships, and having "dead money" against players who've left school for a pro league before graduation. Certainly it would seem that the NCAA enacting real policies for a change would alter the trajectories of a number of teams (in the short term), but I find it impossible to believe that college stadiums would be vacant on the weekends as a result.

 

Good points there Neckbeard. To your first question, my understanding is it's less than 1%, but perhaps the percentage is higher for scholarship players. Maybe 2% or 5%?

 

I would be on board with colleges somehow being accountable for the 4 or 5 year graduation rates of their scholarship athletes.

[Big Turk]

Are you also generating millions of dollars and not getting a cent of it too?

 

It's amazing how many people missed the point of the article. It's probably the media's fault because they sensationalize everything. He will be fine. But the schools aren't truly interested in the best interests of their student athletes. They use and abuse these kids.

 

And he made very average talents like Jordan Payton (5th rounder) & Thomas Duarte (7th) look very good in college. If he stays healthy, he will challenge for the #1 overall pick and I hope he falls.

 

I definitely could guess you were from Mississippi.

 

It's also pretty clear you've never been a college athlete. Kids from good financial homes and school struggle in college. Some of these athletes are being completely unprepared at colleges.

 

Also, why is the NBA and NFL the only sports that make you go to college? I wonder what the difference is between those sports and tennis or golf.

That's how it works with schools...they know how it works going in...they get free scholarships, room and board, a stipend now, a free education and the ability to show they should be drafted into the NFL/NBA, etc...

 

Not to mention they are "celebrities" on campus and have hot chicks throwing themselves at them and theu get more ass than a New Era field toilet seat on game day.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

I will challenge you on one point; how many student-athletes out of all scholarship players actually make a mint in the NFL?

 

To my question earlier in this thread, if colleges are really and truly interested in educating people (irony strongly implied here), then they should absolutely be held accountable for bringing players on board who do nothing in terms of academics, but who are just there in wait of the NFL draft. This would mean capping scholarships, and having "dead money" against players who've left school for a pro league before graduation. Certainly it would seem that the NCAA enacting real policies for a change would alter the trajectories of a number of teams (in the short term), but I find it impossible to believe that college stadiums would be vacant on the weekends as a result.

 

 

I dont disagree with anything you've said here, necessarily. However, if you look at college as a "professional preparation system", then it changes things a bit.

 

Let's face it, you only need to go to college for professions you need a "certification" for. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.

 

We don't make Doctors and Lawyers pass a physical achievement exam to get their certification. They don't have to run a sub-5 40 to pass the bar.

 

So why do college athletes need to have the same academic standards? Frankly, their participation on the school team should technically count as credits towards a degree in their pursued career (professional athlete).

 

I'm being extreme here, but lets face the reality of it.

[Guest NeckBeard]

 

 

I dont disagree with anything you've said here, necessarily. However, if you look at college as a "professional preparation system", then it changes things a bit.

 

Let's face it, you only need to go to college for professions you need a "certification" for. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.

 

We don't make Doctors and Lawyers pass a physical achievement exam to get their certification. They don't have to run a sub-5 40 to pass the bar.

 

So why do college athletes need to have the same academic standards? Frankly, their participation on the school team should technically count as credits towards a degree in their pursued career (professional athlete).

 

I'm being extreme here, but lets face the reality of it.

 

Well, no. After I got being a young weenie out of my system (partying, playing in rock bands, being a semi jock), I focused my attention on STEM, so I did Computer Science at UB. Certainly, I have met non-degreed engineers who are really, really good, but they are the exception rather than the rule in my line of work. A college math/computer science curriculum, among many others, is a gateway to getting a prospective employer to even look at you. That is fact. Want to clear the hurdles of the Google interview process (which I have done), for example? You need to be able to do the work, do the math, and to answer the tough questions. College is highly foundational for a real professional career; I hated college at the time, but I can't deny its results when faced with difficult questions in an interview... that I was able to answer because I'd already solved the problem in college.

 

However, there is no football curriculum in college. If you're going to college to bide your time while waiting for the NFL draft, then you are defeating the purpose of college. Either colleges need to actually show some integrity with regards to scholarship dollars, or the NFL has to start letting people in way younger.

Edited August 9, 2017 by NeckBeard

[TH3]

There is barely any possible way to play serious Division 1 football and survive a real academic degree program.

Huh....what?

 

My kids play a D1 sport - at a school with a medium "big" football program. Every athlete HATES the football players as they suck all the money, all the scholarships for the men's side and all the resources in the athletic department. ALL athletic programs are limited by the NCAA to how much they can practice - and it is NOT A FULL TIME JOB. All athletic departments provide counselors and academic tutors to those who need it.

 

The guys like Rosen are the 1 percent of the 1 percent - even football players at Alabama have maybe a 1 in 15/20 to get drafted and even bigger odds to actually make an NFL team. For every "star" like Rosen they are 200-300 athletes in football and other sports who devote just as much time to their sports as Rosen does - they do it because they love the sport - not because it is a problematic step to the pro's.

 

You have to remember top college b-ball and f-ball are extremely small percentage of what college sports are and what they are about.

[mjd1001]

While I like watching college football, I tend to think its not the best system. Too much money in it now to change, but in my ideal world, I'd like to a minor league or D-league where the players get paid and can get drafted out of that system.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Look someone who didn't read the article. Big time schools push you to certain majors and classes so they don't interfere with football. His point was the schools aren't looking out for the best interests of the athletes. Which they aren't.

 

Ohio State flat out told Robert Smith he couldn't go to medical school because his classes would interfere with football. The NCAA is a sham.

Looks like I incidentally irritated some snowflakes. Plenty of folks go to big time schools, play big time sports and get degrees in good majors too. It just takes dedication and effort. Yes you need to sacrifice party time and hanging out at the quad. Sure there are exceptions.

 

Quotes from the article, WHICH I READ prior to my conclusion:

 

Exhibit a:

"human beings don't belong in school with our schedules."

 

Exhibit b:

"Look, football and school don't go together," Rosen said. "They just don't. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs."

 

(My quote: By the way there are people in this country that work 3 full time jobs to get the money this kids is per year in free education for spending a few hours a day getting free massages and watching football clips- there are plenty of people that worked their way through school that hear this LOUD AND CLEAR)

 

Exhibit c:

"No one in their right mind should have a football player's schedule and go to school..."

 

Exhibit d:

"It's not that some players shouldn't be in school; it's just that universities should help them more...."

 

Exhibit e:

"We're still amateurs though ... Gotta love non-profits #NCAA"

 

 

So yeah he conflated in points about SAT thresholds but if you can't see his underlying theme its blindness, marginal reading comprehension, are work ethically challenged too or resemble the spokesman.

Sometimes reading the articles will help.

 

I love what Rosen said. Now I just hope he can stay healthy this year and attempt to live up to the hype.

See above

You should just stick to coloring books. Reading is hard.

Also see above... and color if compelled Lesnowflake Edited August 9, 2017 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Augie]

Oh waaa...crybaby.

 

Welcome to life.

 

I work full time, go to school full time(14 credit hours this semester---5 classes) in pursuit of my computer science degree which I don't even really need because I already work full time as a computer programmer, have a wife and kids, go the gym religiously, and am the lead developer on an open source Football game being developed and worked on by 10-15 people.

 

Pretty sure I'm a little busier than he is and I'm not complaining.

I get where you're coming from (really I do!), but it may not be quite the same. Is someone else making billions off of your efforts without sharing with you? I tend to fall on the side of the student athlete gets a good deal, but I can see both sides. I think he may be a spoiled brat in some ways, but his arguments are also well thought out and spoken (if not original). What is he, 20 years old? The frontal lobe still has a half decade to go.

 

 

He didn't need (imo) to single out Alabama. I hope that he plays them at some point and gets his ass kicked.

I'd agree with not singling out any one program, but I'll write that off to youth. The point remains....

 

Also, Rosen is an exception as a QB for a major program. He's putting in a ton more time than the "allotted 20 hours" if he's doing it right. Granted, it can be, and has been, done.....but that's crazy tough. To tell Robert Smith medical school is not allowed is to say you don't get the college education you want, you get the watered down version we let you have. That's not preparing him for the life he's capable of.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Augie