Josh Rosen's Comments on academics and football

[Bills757]

No, Ive never been a college athlete. But again, no one is making college athletes continue to stay in college or continue to be an athlete if doing one or both is too hard. I am not denying the fact it may be difficult, but its also not the only difficulty facing college students, and athletes arent the only ones who have full time jobs while attending college. Your statement that kids from good financial homes struggle in school is a little baseless, I dont doubt its true, but also not an outlier.

 

I also dont feel like its up to College to prepare someone for life. You pay to learn, not for them to make you more mature. That should start with parents, and be coupled with the fact that by 18 or 19 years old you shouldnt be a complete child any longer. I dont disagree that the NCAA is a sham, but I am also not going to feel bad for student athletes who do profit from both being in college and also being an athlete.

 

Also on your point about being made to go to college...no one, not a single person has ever been "made" to go to college. They could just as easily not go to college, which means they wouldnt be able to pursue the NFL. Kind of like how I couldnt pursue my job without going to college.

 

Furthermore, can we please do away with the poor kid from the South makes it big stereotype like everyone who guys to Alabama to play football is some podunk idiot with superior physical talents like Shaq's character in Blue Chips? The one which Rosen seems to reference here. I dont have the stats, but athletes are groomed long before they enter college and passing, lineman and other camps arent cheap.

 

Good post!!

 

Of course, many of these schools can just follow UNC's lead and let the athletes take fictitious classes!! Seems to have worked for them considering the NCAA hasn't done squat yet.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Baby boomers digging holes and yelling down at the people stuck in them that they are lazy. Even though we are kind of lazy......

UNFORTUNATELY, BOOMERS show no appetite for maintaining the assets their parents accumulated. Public higher education, nearly free for boomers, has become dauntingly expensive. Infrastructure is neither built nor maintained, and not even responsible boomers take this seriously. It was then-candidates John McCain and Hillary Clinton, those paragons of boomer probity, who proposed a gas-tax holiday in 2008, the year the Highway Trust Fund went bust. Federal research and development funding also suffered, with dispiriting consequences for the future. Smartphones may be fairly recent, but their core technologies were developed with government money long ago. Enjoy your iPhone now, because your iCopter and iKidney will be indefinitely delayed.

The consequences of boomer overconsumption, underinvestment, and appetite for risk reveal themselves every time a bridge or bank collapses, but can be summarized in Americas prolonged economic mediocrity. Finding decent growth requires stretching all the way back to the 1990s, and even so, the 1990s barely edged out 1970s squalor on a per capita GDP basis. Thanks to boomer policies, the new normal is 1.6 percent real growth, well below the 2.5 to 3.5 percent rates prevailing from the 1950s to the 1980s. For the young, the price will be incomes 30 percent to 50 percent lower than they could have been.

I'm no boomer. I have a very positive net worth, pay income tax every year that provides the federal government enough money to give 1 entire household a median income. I dug no hole, I built stuff and brought jobs from overseas to here. My issue is I can not find college grads from this county who want to work. They consider an 8 hour day a prison. When I first got out of school in the late 90s me and my peirs would put in 10-12 hour days trying to climb the ladder and succeed. And come back asking for more. It was commonplace. I paid my own school, got my masters while working full time.

 

I could go on about the pros and cons of all gens, including mine. But the current is the most alarming. There are outliers, yes... but in aggregate the generation is just plain soft.

 

This woe is me, don't make me have to work hard mentality is what I extract from this rosepetal guys comments. But as others pointed out, maybe it's Attention whoring.

 

I will guarantee this guy flames out in the pros. Did you ever hear Peyton or Brady complain about how hard they have to work to be succeed? Could you even imagine it?

Edited August 10, 2017 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I know a lot about Alabama and publish authors who teach there (I'm a book editor at Oxford University Press.) It's a perfectly fine public university but it's simply not in the same league as a UCLA, Michigan, or Berkeley. The latter three are by consensus among the best universities in the world. It's not like I'm a snob about this - I went to UB for undergrad (a fairly mediocre public university but a place where you can get a perfectly fine education.) Anecdotal stories about someone doing well at Alabama are all well and good, but in the aggregate it's not even close in terms of quality (meaning measurables) to the top UCs in areas like faculty research output, the quality of the undergrad student body, and the grad student population (especially). Of course, it doesn't mean that smart people don't go to places like Alabama, get very good educations, and do well in life (as you well know). If one is from Alabama, it's the logical place to go.

Is the quality of education at Alabama even relevant to this conversation? Rosen is bashing Alabama for low standards. Outside of the Ivy League most universities lower their standards specifically for football players. This makes the standards of the universities as a whole somewhat irrelevant to football. I'm not sure that calling out Alabama was fair. Alabama may have lower general standards than Michigan. This doesn't mean that Michigan holds football players to the same standard as the general student body. Every big time college program lowers academic standards for football players.

[dave mcbride]

If it's a trade it's not something for nothing anyway, but fair.

 

On point 3 my i was merely putting this narrative of 'evil universities exploiting these poor kids by asking for more of their time in exchange for hundreds of thousands for billions' as some said, i context.

 

If UCLA lost its entire athletic department revenue it wouldn't even appear in the annual revenue statement as it's lost in the rounding error.

 

I wouldn't say that it's quite a rounding error, but you're correct in that it's a slender piece of the overall pie. The UCLA athletic department generated $97 million in 2016, with about 47 percent of it coming from football alone. The entire budget of the university is $6.8 billion.

 

In contrast, the Alabama AD made something like $160 million, and the total budget for the U of Alabama in 2016 was $875 million. That's a lot more than a rounding error, particularly given that a lot of the AD money was straight-up profit generated by the football program.

Edited August 10, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Sky Diver]

I know a lot about Alabama and publish authors who teach there (I'm a book editor at Oxford University Press.) It's a perfectly fine public university but it's simply not in the same league as a UCLA, Michigan, or Berkeley. The latter three are by consensus among the best universities in the world. It's not like I'm a snob about this - I went to UB for undergrad (a fairly mediocre public university but a place where you can get a perfectly fine education.) Anecdotal stories about someone doing well at Alabama are all well and good, but in the aggregate it's not even close in terms of quality (meaning measurables) to the top UCs in areas like faculty research output, the quality of the undergrad student body, and the grad student population (especially). Of course, it doesn't mean that smart people don't go to places like Alabama, get very good educations, and do well in life (as you well know). If one is from Alabama, it's the logical place to go.

The ratio of out-of-state to in-state students is 60:40. UA is attracting top students from all over the country.

 

We aren't from Alabama and my son was accepted at two public Ivy's. He met his objective of getting into a top software company in CA and we saved $100K. Roll Tide!

[dave mcbride]

Is the quality of education at Alabama even relevant to this conversation? Rosen is bashing Alabama for low standards. Outside of the Ivy League most universities lower their standards specifically for football players. This makes the standards of the universities as a whole somewhat irrelevant to football. I'm not sure that calling out Alabama was fair. Alabama may have lower general standards than Michigan. This doesn't mean that Michigan holds football players to the same standard as the general student body. Every big time college program lowers academic standards for football players.

Alabama, as I understand it, does have lower standards than UCLA, Berkeley, Northwestern, UVA, etc. for football player acceptancee. But all of these places (including Stanford and Duke) lower their standards for athletes to a degree. Let's remember that Alabama gets the best players in the country, and clearly a lot of them are not fit for college. But that school lives in a different world -- college football is a religion in that part of the country, and bigger than the NFL. Florida State, Clemson, and LSU are all in similar boats. The competition in that world is ferocious - more ferocious than at a place like UCLA or UVA, where the level of fan and media attention is markedly lower. The pressure to win there is unbelievable.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I wouldn't say that it's quite a rounding error, but you're correct in that it's a slender piece of the overall pie. The UCLA athletic department generated $97 million in 2016, with about 47 percent of it coming from football alone. The entire budget of the university is $6.8 billion.

 

In contrast, the Alabama AD made something like $160 million, and the total budget for the U of Alabama in 2016 was $875 million. That's a lot more than a rounding error, particularly given that a lot of the AD money was straight-up profit generated by the football program.

Thx- like taking facts and numbers. We were previously talking UCLA and rosebuds comments on profits that he won't get his cut of.

 

Yes football is more import to some unis than others. But ADs likely payout what like hundreds of full ride sports scholarships? Let's recognize it's not all profi mongering at work- at least I don't think.

 

Do you think it's unfair to expect kids on scholarship to put in the work for sport and in the classroom? Say it is two full time jobs, or 10-11 hours a day most days, which is an over exaggeration. Betting it's 12 hour weekdays and 10-12 hours per weekend MAX

[dave mcbride]

The ratio of out-of-state to in-state students is 60:40. UA is attracting top students from all over the country.

 

We aren't from Alabama and my son was accepted at two public Ivy's. He met his objective of getting into a top software company in CA and we saved $100K. Roll Tide!

I realize that. It's happening all over the country. Increasing out-of-state enrollment is a primary way for schools to increase revenue generation. http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-out-of-state-20140818-story.html. The cost to attend Michigan out of state is now $60K per year, and more than half of those enrolled there are from out-of-state. It's one of the reasons why getting into a master's program at a place like Oxford isn't THAT hard - the university charges people in the UK barely anything, but can charge out-of-country enrollees Ivy league prices.

[bobobonators]

I have a couple of issues with Rosen's comments:

 

1. First and foremost, nobody is forcing you to play football AND got to college. It's your choice. If you feel you're up to it, do it. If you feel you can't handle it, then don't. That simple. Multiple people go to school Full time and work MULTIPLE part-time jobs and/or raise families.

 

2. Athletes like Rosen don't get enough help? You have a free ride to a top-tier university. That in and of itself is worth around $150,000 - $250,000. (This isn't even scratching the surface of all of the other perks they receive that aren't reported)

 

3. I went to a university that has a football program in the Big 10. To say that those athletes didn't get assistance in their academics is ludicrous. The athletes had tutors/assistants at their beck and call - they didn't need to seek out help like your average student, help was afforded to them without being sought out.

Edited August 10, 2017 by bobobonators

[dave mcbride]

Thx- like taking facts and numbers. We were previously talking UCLA and rosebuds comments on profits that he won't get his cut of.

 

Yes football is more import to some unis than others. But ADs likely payout what like hundreds of full ride sports scholarships? Let's recognize it's not all profi mongering at work- at least I don't think.

 

Do you think it's unfair to expect kids on scholarship to put in the work for sport and in the classroom? Say it is two full time jobs, or 10-11 hours a day most days, which is an over exaggeration. Betting it's 12 hour weekdays and 10-12 hours per weekend MAX

I dunno. I am more familiar with D1 college baseball, and they play upwards of 60 games per year and practice pretty intensely all fall and travel far and wide. It's tough to handle both, but obviously many do. I do think it's more demanding than holding a job and attending school, for what it's worth.

I have a couple of issues with Rosen's comments:

 

1. First and foremost, nobody is forcing you to play football AND got to college. It's your choice. If you feel you're up to it, do it. If you feel you can't handle it, then don't. That simple. Multiple people go to school Full time and work MULTIPLE part-time jobs and/or raise families.

 

2. Athletes like Rosen don't get enough help? You have a free ride to a top-tier university. That in and of itself is worth around $150,000 - $250,000. (This isn't even scratching the surface of all of the other perks they receive that aren't reported)

 

3. I went to a university that has a football program in the Big 10. To say that those athletes didn't get assistance in their academics is ludicrous. The athletes had tutors/assistants at their beck and call - they didn't need to seek out help like your average student, help was afforded to them without being sought out.

Actually, if you want to play football professionally, you ARE forced to play football and go to college. There is no other option. That's not debatable.

[yungmack]

He didn't need (imo) to single out Alabama. I hope that he plays them at some point and gets his ass kicked.

Why do you want him to get his ass kicked? I don't understand that.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I have a couple of issues with Rosen's comments:

 

1. First and foremost, nobody is forcing you to play football AND got to college. It's your choice. If you feel you're up to it, do it. If you feel you can't handle it, then don't. That simple. Multiple people go to school Full time and work MULTIPLE part-time jobs and/or raise families.

 

2. Athletes like Rosen don't get enough help? You have a free ride to a top-tier university. That in and of itself is worth around $150,000 - $250,000. (This isn't even scratching the surface of all of the other perks they receive that aren't reported)

 

3. I went to a university that has a football program in the Big 10. To say that those athletes didn't get assistance in their academics is ludicrous. The athletes had tutors/assistants at their beck and call - they didn't need to seek out help like your average student, help was afforded to them without being sought out.

I think this quote from Rosen sums up his attitude best "I want to own the world. Every young person should be able to have that dream and the ability to access it. I don't think that's too much to ask". Edited August 10, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[bobobonators]

I dunno. I am more familiar with D1 college baseball, and they play upwards of 60 games per year and practice pretty intensely all fall and travel far and wide. It's tough to handle both, but obviously many do. I do think it's more demanding than holding a job and attending school, for what it's worth.

Actually, if you want to play football professionally, you ARE forced to play football and go to college. There is no other option. That's not debatable.

 

And the point? That's like saying if you want a law degree you have to get a Bachelor's first. Or if you want to become a Doctor, you have to get a Bachelors first. If you want to pursue a law degree badly enough or an MD, you know this beforehand don't you? Deal with it, or you know what? Don't. Go work at your local pizza shop.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

And the point? That's like saying if you want a law degree you have to get a Bachelor's first. Or if you want to become a Doctor, you have to get a Bachelors first. If you want to pursue a law degree badly enough or an MD, you know this beforehand don't you? Deal with it, or you know what? Don't. Go work at your local pizza shop.

You predict a grim future for people who don't go to college. Quite the elitist remark.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

And the point? That's like saying if you want a law degree you have to get a Bachelor's first. Or if you want to become a Doctor, you have to get a Bachelors first. If you want to pursue a law degree badly enough or an MD, you know this beforehand don't you? Deal with it, or you know what? Don't. Go work at your local pizza shop.

 

Well... a doctor needs to be a smart person. Does a football player need a degree to play football professionally?

[bobobonators]

You predict a grim future for people who don't go to college. Quite the elitist remark.

 

Listen, that's not my point. You can be extremely successful without going to college. I think you get my point, however.

[Sky Diver]

I realize that. It's happening all over the country. Increasing out-of-state enrollment is a primary way for schools to increase revenue generation. http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-out-of-state-20140818-story.html. The cost to attend Michigan out of state is now $60K per year, and more than half of those enrolled there are from out-of-state. It's one of the reasons why getting into a master's program at a place like Oxford isn't THAT hard - the university charges people in the UK barely anything, but can charge out-of-country enrollees Ivy league prices.

My son had a lot more opportunities at UA than he would have had at the public Ivy's and he got his BS/MS in 4 yrs with no debt (in fact, he graduated with substantial savings from top internships). I have nothing but good things to say about UA. it served us well. It's a top 50 public according to US News (whatever that means).

[bobobonators]

 

Well... a doctor needs to be a smart person. Does a football player need a degree to play football professionally?

 

 

 

Do we need a college degree for anything really? We could internship at probably 95% of jobs for a few years and learn how to do that job without a degree.

 

I could probably make a stronger argument that a High School kid needs more preparation/maturity/physical growth for the NFL than an 18yr old kid needs to go into marketing for example. Unfortunately or fortunately college is a means to an end for many things, whether it's deemed fair or not. It's a reality.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Listen, that's not my point. You can be extremely successful without going to college. I think you get my point, however.

I do. Rosen is simply a spoiled silver spoon kid. If football is stopping him from pursuing his degree of choice, why doesn't he pursue an easier one while he is playing or stop playing? He could easily pursue whatever degree he wants when he's done playing football.

[dave mcbride]

 

And the point? That's like saying if you want a law degree you have to get a Bachelor's first. Or if you want to become a Doctor, you have to get a Bachelors first. If you want to pursue a law degree badly enough or an MD, you know this beforehand don't you? Deal with it, or you know what? Don't. Go work at your local pizza shop.

Huh?? If someone is extremely talented at football but none too bright, they still should have a chance to apply their skills and be remunerated for it provided an organization that is willing to pay him. Or are you saying that a person who by every physical measure is a fit for professional football should forego that career path because he isn't good at college and instead ply his skills in a pizza parlor? Because that's the alternative if he doesn't go to college. No one can play in the NFL without going to college. That makes zero sense to me.

I do. Rosen is simply a spoiled silver spoon kid. If football is stopping him from pursuing his degree of choice, why doesn't he pursue an easier one while he is playing or stop playing? He could easily pursue whatever degree he wants when he's done playing football.

That's not what he said AT ALL. Sheesh.

Edited August 10, 2017 by dave mcbride