teef Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Irish need another Lou Holtz to get the standards to be dropped as well. as much as i hate the irish, they've help pretty strong to their academic standards lately from what it seems. fortunately for them the program reputation will still have some of the top recruits coming their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Oh waaa...crybaby. Welcome to life. I work full time, go to school full time(14 credit hours this semester---5 classes) in pursuit of my computer science degree which I don't even really need because I already work full time as a computer programmer, have a wife and kids, go the gym religiously, and am the lead developer on an open source Football game being developed and worked on by 10-15 people. Pretty sure I'm a little busier than he is and I'm not complaining. You think he's just complaining about work load? From what I read, he's discussing the conflict between academics and amateur sports and how the system doesn't have the student-athlete's best interests in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) You think he's just complaining about work load? From what I read, he's discussing the conflict between academics and amateur sports and how the system doesn't have the student-athlete's best interests in mind. And what's the fix for that exactly? The two things are completely diametrically opposed as to what they are trying to accomplish. Sports = get players ready to compete and win to help bring money to the school. Academics = help people learn so they can be productive in the workforce, although I'd counter their value is significantly overrated and nowhere near the money they are charging these days. If I was headed to college from highschool I'd either take advantage of New York States free college tuition programs or go online where the cost is substantially lower or even free(my classes are being paid for by Pell Grants right now, I paid I think about $250 total for the two semesters) The schools use these kids for money, but then cry when they have to provide minimal stipends---star athletes bring them tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Edited August 9, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Oh waaa...crybaby. Welcome to life. I work full time, go to school full time(14 credit hours this semester---5 classes) in pursuit of my computer science degree which I don't even really need because I already work full time as a computer programmer, have a wife and kids, go the gym religiously, and am the lead developer on an open source Football game being developed and worked on by 10-15 people. Pretty sure I'm a little busier than he is and I'm not complaining. No offense, but it appears from your post that you have NO idea how demanding the athletic schedule is for players in on big-time D1 sports teams. Oh - and Alabama's football team alone generated $103.9 million in revenue last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 No offense, but it appears from your post that you have NO idea how demanding the athletic schedule is for players in on big-time D1 sports teams. Oh - and Alabama's football team alone generated $103.9 million in revenue last year. There is barely any possible way to play serious Division 1 football and survive a real academic degree program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Love this kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 There is barely any possible way to play serious Division 1 football and survive a real academic degree program. Not just football. Here is a randomly selected D1 baseball schedule for a pretty good team in a big-time conference: http://www.wvusports.com/schedules.cfm?sport=baseball. Look at how long the season is and the travel it entails. Plus they practice nearly every day in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 There is barely any possible way to play serious Division 1 football and survive a real academic degree program. What about people with children and full time jobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 And what's the fix for that exactly? The two things are completely diametrically opposed as to what they are trying to accomplish. Sports = get players ready to compete and win to help bring money to the school. Academics = help people learn so they can be productive in the workforce, although I'd counter their value is significantly overrated and nowhere near the money they are charging these days. If I was headed to college from highschool I'd either take advantage of New York States free college tuition programs or go online where the cost is substantially lower or even free(my classes are being paid for by Pell Grants right now, I paid I think about $250 total for the two semesters) The schools use these kids for money, but then cry when they have to provide minimal stipends---star athletes bring them tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. I think you and I both know the fix, but it seems unfathomable. Hard to imagine the NFL and NBA creating minor league systems like the MLB and NHL have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Not just football. Here is a randomly selected D1 baseball schedule for a pretty good team in a big-time conference: http://www.wvusports.com/schedules.cfm?sport=baseball. Look at how long the season is and the travel it entails. Plus they practice nearly every day in the fall. fair enough, anyone on a full ride scholarship is committing too many hours to it. football adds to it by the physical toll handed out to its athletes. it was bad enough in Canada playing varsity sports without the $$ demands on your body. What about people with children and full time jobs? we are talking about a system which winks at academics in the name of hustling a $ on kids athletic ability. you've raised a side issue nobody cares about in depth except themselves (and a tip of the hat to those getting through...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 This problem has very few solutions. I played DIII about 25 yrs ago and people were saying the exact same things that Rosen is saying. The school I went to was in the NESCAC, and the league seriously considered pulling out of the NCAA, an organization has long since outlived its usefulness. But the criticism was overwhelming as the Rick Reilly's of the world all made a huge stink about it and it never happened. But I think we will soon see the power conferences break free of the NCAA, and some of the ridiculous regulations (that hurt the kids just as much as the schools) will be done away with. I could see a scenario where a kid gets to play football/basketball with a very minimal course load but with the ability to finish his education in the future, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I wouldn't touch this kid. I don't want him on this team period. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 What, That he spoke truthfully, logically, and made perfect sense? -Really? I was referring your interpretation, but that seems to have missed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Student-athletes (at least those who participate in D1 football and basketball) should be allowed to "major" in "athletics" during their 4-5 years representing the program. Then after their eligibility is finished they should be allowed to receive an education for free from the same college/university in a real field at any time they wish. This is to protect/benefit those who have little-to-no professional careers after college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Student-athletes (at least those who participate in D1 football and basketball) should be allowed to "major" in "athletics" during their 4-5 years representing the program. Then after their eligibility is finished they should be allowed to receive an education for free from the same college/university in a real field at any time they wish. This is to protect/benefit those who have little-to-no professional careers after college. Interesting recent example: Jeremiah Estrada (who faced my 16-year old son's team in a Georgia tournament last year!) is an elite pitcher from Southern California who committed to UCLA. Because of that, he was drafted far later in the MLB draft than his talent suggested (this happens all the time in the MLB draft--many players rightly see free college as a better financial deal than a single-A salary). Anyway, he was taken in the 6th round by the Cubs in June. The signing bonus (via MLB's slotting system) for a 6th rounder is $200,000, but the Cubs offered him $1 million *and* guaranteed to fully pay for a UCLA education if he washes out. He chose to sign with the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Interesting recent example: Jeremiah Estrada (who faced my 16-year old son's team in a Georgia tournament last year!) is an elite pitcher from Southern California who committed to UCLA. Because of that, he was drafted far later in the MLB draft than his talent suggested (this happens all the time in the MLB draft--many players rightly see free college as a better financial deal than a single-A salary). Anyway, he was taken in the 6th round by the Cubs in June. The signing bonus (via MLB's slotting system) for a 6th rounder is $200,000, but the Cubs offered him $1 million *and* guaranteed to fully pay for a UCLA education if he washes out. He chose to sign with the Cubs. No-brainer on his part. I wonder if that type of contract guarantee (teams paying for education later on) is allowed in the NFL and NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) No-brainer on his part. I wonder if that type of contract guarantee (teams paying for education later on) is allowed in the NFL and NBA. Dunno. Good question. In the mid-80s, a very close friend of mine from Palo Alto was drafted in the 8th round by the Mets coming out of HS but had scholarship offers from UCLA, Arizona State, SC, and the Univ of Washington. He's extremely smart and preferred basketball, so he went to Pomona and played D3 ball with Greg Popovich as his coach. But he told me that if had to choose, he would definitely have chosen college baseball because it was a better financial deal AND he'd get a free education. In HS, he played for an elite travel team (Greg Joyner was on it) and something like half the team was drafted. He told me that one kid got a $50K signing bonus, which he immediately blew $37K on for a BMW. He spent a year or two playing A ball in Idaho and washed out. He was 20 and broke. Gerritt Cole of the Pirates was drafted in the late first by the Yankees about 8 years ago (28th overall), but went to UCLA and was drafted #1 overall by the Pirates. Jacoby Ellsbury was drafted in the 23rd round out of HS, but went to Oregon State and ended up being a 2nd round pick by the Red Sox. The list goes on. The craziest stuff that happens is in the DR and Venezuela, where signing bonuses are given to 16 year olds. Edited August 9, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Rosen is hardly the problem. I suggest reading this: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/5/30/15704320/ucla-football-2017-preview-schedule-roster . Again, read above. He's been a lot better player than you suggest. Look at that run game. It has been historically awful the past two seasons. From the broken record dept: read the link above before you judge his game. Actually his freshman year we had Jonathan Franklin and the run game was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I was referring your interpretation, but that seems to have missed you. Yah, whatever mysterious ninja-chick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Actually his freshman year we had Jonathan Franklin and the run game was very good. Paul Perkins, and yes they were solid that year. Last year, however, they were unbelievably bad - one of the very worst in the entirety of D1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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