NoSaint Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 2.6 million would have made him the 13th highest cap hit on the team, for our backup running back. It makes contract negotiations much more difficult as the agent starts at 2.6 per year if not more. So u end up with him for a high cap hit for 1 year then he walks to start somewhere else. You might get a comp pick in 2019. It's also a ton to pay a backup running back when u have the 2nd highest paid back in the NFL. Unfortunately you have to go young and cheap when u carry a contract like mccoys. Not always true on negotiations. Some guys like money up front and the tag comes with zero pay til September essentially. If you could sign a 2-3 year deal at slightly less per year but a good bit in signing bonus there's an argument to be made for a player to take it. Also 13th highest pay day for the guy that would likely be 3rd highest touches behind Tyrod and McCoy isn't absurd. He would have been minimally ahead of a backup interior lineman, backup linebacker, fullback and 3rd string RT in our top 20 at the moment. With us leaning heavy on the run game, I'll take some known depth, personally. Edited June 27, 2017 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Geico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 On the Gillislee point, not only would he be HB2 and as mentioned probably get a hefty amount of carries, but he would also be great insurance in the very possible case McCoy goes down and likely heir apparent to the soon-to-be 29 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Reggie Bush is available Didn't he set a record last season somewhere? Or, we can wait until MG is cut by the Pats. seems like they have like 15 RBs at camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Would rather wait for someone to get cut than trade away an asset for a HB. If we were going to allocate more resources to the position, then we should have kept Gillislee. (We should have tendered him at the higher amount anyways...). I do not share the optimism for Williams, although I do hope he ends up the player that his Arkansas output projected him to be. Regardless, I think Tolbert ends up solidly the HB2 to McCoy. Could be a great thunder to his lightning. I'm aware he hasn't had much production in his last few years in Carolina, but he was used almost exclusively as a FB. When called upon, he has shown he can be an effective runner - 4 seasons of 4.0 or higher YPC and has scored 7, 8, and 11 rushing TDs in single seasons. Do I think he's ideal? No, but I think he'll be enough considering the yards our halfbacks get before contact. I think there's a good chance the Eagles will cut Ryan Mathews. They added L.Blount in free agency and Pumphrey in the draft and still have Sproles. Then again, since Pumphrey is similar in size to Sproles, it could also be Sproles that's cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 2.6 million would have made him the 13th highest cap hit on the team, for our backup running back. It makes contract negotiations much more difficult as the agent starts at 2.6 per year if not more. So u end up with him for a high cap hit for 1 year then he walks to start somewhere else. You might get a comp pick in 2019. It's also a ton to pay a backup running back when u have the 2nd highest paid back in the NFL. Unfortunately you have to go young and cheap when u carry a contract like mccoys. Where you're ranked in terms of cap hit on the team doesn't mean much. Cap hits go up and down year to year depending on the contract. Means little to nothing. What means something is the money per year average number, $2.6 mill, which would've put Gillislee as the 27th highest paid RB in the league last year, probably a bit lower next year as salaries go up. That's about where he should be. Would've been very very reasonable to pay him that. But the bottom line is that we were having serious salary cap problems. We had to take some hits and not bring back some guys we would've liked to keep. Gillislee was in that group, probably with Gilmore, Zach Brown, Robey-Coleman and some depth guys. If we'd been in better shape we'd have almost surely kept at least some of those guys. This is what happens when your front office spends too much. And it doesn't make sense to do so on a team that then goes 7-9. We'd be a significantly better running game with Gillislee here. But getting the cap back into some kind of reasonable shape took priority. They're still tight but will be much better after another year of relative austerity. Edited June 27, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Debate what he's worth all you want, but the Dynasty, Super Bowl Champs felt it was worth to pay him more than we did and make him their starter. They are right and will be right until proven otherwise. We messed up with Gilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Debate what he's worth all you want, but the Dynasty, Super Bowl Champs felt it was worth to pay him more than we did and make him their starter. They are right and will be right until proven otherwise. We messed up with Gilly. He will not start. He is part of the Genius's rotation plan for Pats RB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Where you're ranked in terms of cap hit on the team doesn't mean much. Cap hits go up and down year to year depending on the contract. Means little to nothing. What means something is the money per year average number, $2.6 mill, which would've put Gillislee as the 27th highest paid RB in the league last year, probably a bit lower next year as salaries go up. That's about where he should be. Would've been very very reasonable to pay him that. But the bottom line is that we were having serious salary cap problems. We had to take some hits and not bring back some guys we would've liked to keep. Gillislee was in that group, probably with Gilmore, Zach Brown, Robey-Coleman and some depth guys. If we'd been in better shape we'd have almost surely kept at least some of those guys. This is what happens when your front office spends too much. And it doesn't make sense to do so on a team that then goes 7-9. We'd be a significantly better running game with Gillislee here. But getting the cap back into some kind of reasonable shape took priority. They're still tight but will be much better after another year of relative austerity. We are not particularly tight. We could have kept more than one of those guys and been fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Would rather wait for someone to get cut than trade away an asset for a HB. If we were going to allocate more resources to the position, then we should have kept Gillislee. (We should have tendered him at the higher amount anyways...). I do not share the optimism for Williams, although I do hope he ends up the player that his Arkansas output projected him to be. Regardless, I think Tolbert ends up solidly the HB2 to McCoy. Could be a great thunder to his lightning. I'm aware he hasn't had much production in his last few years in Carolina, but he was used almost exclusively as a FB. When called upon, he has shown he can be an effective runner - 4 seasons of 4.0 or higher YPC and has scored 7, 8, and 11 rushing TDs in single seasons. Do I think he's ideal? No, but I think he'll be enough considering the yards our halfbacks get before contact. i've asked before without an answer, but what is so special about having someone slow and plodding as a replacement for someone as dynamic as McCoy. What is the benefit? I do agree with you in that Tolbert hasn't had much, if any, worthwhile production for the last 3 years. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine him making any significant contribution to this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) i've asked before without an answer, but what is so special about having someone slow and plodding as a replacement for someone as dynamic as McCoy. What is the benefit? I do agree with you in that Tolbert hasn't had much, if any, worthwhile production for the last 3 years. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine him making any significant contribution to this team. It's less the slow and plodding, more the physicality and down-hill nature of his running. Just the change from a juking, shifty, quick McCoy to a straight-line runner like Tolbert is beneficial in that it requires opposing defenses to account for both running styles, not to mention the possibility that his last 3 years at fullback make whether he is blocking or carrying the ball an unknown. Tough to have production as a halfback when placed at fullback, but that's what happens when you're behind the likes of DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart (Whittaker and Artis-Payne aren't half bad either). Plus, he's shown ability as a pass-catcher. And if you're going as general as contribution to the team, then leadership and special teams, too. He's a do-it-all type (https://apnews.com/8b8f2058d7c84d6c85a966bd8878e333/veteran-fullback-tolbert-still-has-value-panthers). Edited June 27, 2017 by JohnBonhamRocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 If we weren't going after being the #1 rushing team in the NFL, I wouldn't be as worried. But we're 1 Shady injury away from season over. Letting Gilly go was very foolish. Williams and the others are just meh...better keep LeSean healthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 He will not start. He is part of the Genius's rotation plan for Pats RB's For what it's worth, most early fantasy projections have him around 15th in RB lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'll say it. Ray Rice. Bring him to camp and just see. If he's out of shape, no big deal. But yes, we need another HB and there are plenty of guys out there whom we can kick the tires on Yeah, I'm sure he's just the type of player McD is on record of looking to acquire as a Buffalo Bill.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'm hoping, but not confident, that a healthy Jonathan Williams can provide excellent depth at RB this season. With that being said, would it not be prudent for the Bills to be actively pursuing a trade for a quality backup RB. Many teams are loaded if not overloaded at RB. Some of those teams have RB's like Chris Ivory, Alfred Morris, C J Prosise, Jermy Hill, and C J Spiller in a long queue. Prudent to give up assets for a reserve RB? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Didn't he set a record last season somewhere? :w00t:Or, we can wait until MG is cut by the Pats. seems like they have like 15 RBs at camp Reggie's horizontal running game last season was something to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Prudent to give up assets for a reserve RB? No. If it's a late pick or guy we may cut later this offseason I wouldn't much stress over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 If it's a late pick or guy we may cut later this offseason I wouldn't much stress over it No need to stress over it because if they need an RB at some juncture, the can get a street free agent just as they have done in the past w/o giving up anything. In the mean time, they'll go with what they have at reserve RB with JWill 1st up. The guy should be in a better position in his 2nd year to showcase his skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Would rather wait for someone to get cut than trade away an asset for a HB. If we were going to allocate more resources to the position, then we should have kept Gillislee. (We should have tendered him at the higher amount anyways...). I do not share the optimism for Williams, although I do hope he ends up the player that his Arkansas output projected him to be. Regardless, I think Tolbert ends up solidly the HB2 to McCoy. Could be a great thunder to his lightning. I'm aware he hasn't had much production in his last few years in Carolina, but he was used almost exclusively as a FB. When called upon, he has shown he can be an effective runner - 4 seasons of 4.0 or higher YPC and has scored 7, 8, and 11 rushing TDs in single seasons. Do I think he's ideal? No, but I think he'll be enough considering the yards our halfbacks get before contact. I wonder if losing a player at a position of need to the Pats for the 2nd year in a row was the last straw for Whaley. His inability to learn from his mistakes was simply astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Invest in the O Line and it doesn't matter who you throw back there. It's been proven over and over again. That's not quite true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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