Public Financing of Stadiums

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I agree. You are using sound logic to prove that there is no need for a new stadium. Especially one built on the backs of the taxpayers. The issue is that the NFL owners all want new stadiums across the board. That's why sound logic is missing from this debate. The sole purpose of new stadiums are to squeeze more cash out of the fans. This makes it hard for me to comprehend why anyone would want a new stadium in Buffalo.

Problem is the average fan which is the premise on which this league was founded no longer matters. Corporate dollars and TV revenues made the average fan an irrelevant afterthought. The two most gluttonous pigs are Jones and Snyder who loathe revenue sharing, both in markets along with others that are self-sustaining because of corporate sponsors, higher per capita income than Buffalo as well as smaller markets and easily demand exorbitant suite prices as well as seat licenses.....Snyder once quipped when talking about the financial cash cow NFL, "WE have to realize what WE built here"....what did HE build?....he wrote a check in 1999 just like Jones did in 1989, BUYING their way into the fraternity...Buffalo/WNY market per capita could never support huge ticket price increases, seat licenses or major increase in suite prices....our 20 person corporate suite at The Hat is 75 grand BEFORE food, beverage, parking, transporation, etc....final tab is >100 grand....same suite in the pigs' venues would be 225 grand before the trimmings...we'd be out........

[Big Turk]

I would hate for the Bills to ever leave Buffalo, but this story just confirms how taxpayers gets screwed time and time again when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I'd rather the Bills leave than the taxpayers of Buffalo, Erie County or New York get fleeced just to build a play pen for the rich owners of a sports franchise.

 

Nevada Taxpayers, Please Bend Over

How is this any different from the government passing on costs via postage stamp raises so they can pay their mail carriers 100K to walk around all day? Or a company passing on costs to consumers for their ridiculous CEO paychecks?

 

There really isn't much difference, it's just something we get to vote on while the others we have no real say

Edited May 31, 2017 by matter2003

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

How is this any different from the government passing on costs via postage stamp raises so they can pay their mail carriers 100K to walk around all day? Or a company passing on costs to consumers for their ridiculous CEO paychecks?

 

There really isn't much difference, it's just something we get to vote on while the others we have no real say

...of course there's a difference.....if you can no longer afford Bills tix, you don't go.....if you can't afford stamp price increases or any other governmental increase, do you stop mailing and what's your alternative theoretically (ignore on-line payment opportunities for npw to answer your postage analogy)?..........

[OldNMBillsFan]

At this point in time, I see no need for the stadium to be replaced. However, when that time comes, I have no problem with the state footing a large percentage of the cost. I have no idea the economic impact of having an NFL team in the area does, but I am sure the State does. State income tax on 52 professional football players, coaches, and all supporting personnel to include stadium employees. Property tax collected by the same employees. Then the sales tax generated every home game, to include the estimated 12,000 (last I heard) Canadians who spend their hard earned money supporting the team as well. How much Tax do they collect for every beer I drink at the game? How much gasoline tax is collected from all those who need to fill up to get to the game and back home. I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on the services such as restaurants and hotels and the impact of those employees and the sales and income tax generated. When you think about it, it could be staggering. Ralph Wilson Stadium was built in 1973 for 22 Million. I would think that the state and local taxes collected every couple of years now, easily recovers their original investment.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

At this point in time, I see no need for the stadium to be replaced. However, when that time comes, I have no problem with the state footing a large percentage of the cost. I have no idea the economic impact of having an NFL team in the area does, but I am sure the State does. State income tax on 52 professional football players, coaches, and all supporting personnel to include stadium employees. Property tax collected by the same employees. Then the sales tax generated every home game, to include the estimated 12,000 (last I heard) Canadians who spend their hard earned money supporting the team as well. How much Tax do they collect for every beer I drink at the game? How much gasoline tax is collected from all those who need to fill up to get to the game and back home. I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on the services such as restaurants and hotels and the impact of those employees and the sales and income tax generated. When you think about it, it could be staggering. Ralph Wilson Stadium was built in 1973 for 22 Million. I would think that the state and local taxes collected every couple of years now, easily recovers their original investment.

...are you a NY resident?..........

[OldNMBillsFan]

...are you a NY resident?..........

Yes, I moved back to the area about 2 years ago. Are you?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Yes, I moved back to the area about 2 years ago. Are you?

yup...and the income taxes and property taxes are killers..........life long New York State resident and what I pay is repulsive.....I think we are in the top 3 in the US.....

[OldNMBillsFan]

yup...and the income taxes and property taxes are killers..........life long New York State resident and what I pay is repulsive.....I think we are in the top 3 in the US.....

Oh i agree, and how much income and property taxes are paid to NY state by just the players every year? That initial investment of 22 million is looking pretty small after 45 years. That is my whole point. The state makes a killing off of the team. It would be in their best interest to fund a large portion of the stadium when it is needed.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Oh i agree, and how much income and property taxes are paid to NY state by just the players every year? That initial investment of 22 million is looking pretty small after 45 years. That is my whole point. The state makes a killing off of the team. It would be in their best interest to fund a large portion of the stadium when it is needed.

...if I am correct, athletes are subject to non-resident income taxes when they play in a State venue as well as local taxes in municipalities......so an NFL domiciled resident in the state of Florida (no income taxes) plays in Philadelphia, 1/16 of their income is subject to Pennsylvania state income taxes (3.7%) as well as City of Philadelphia local tax (don't know the rate-PA is usually .5% to 2%).....extortion.........

[OldNMBillsFan]

...if I am correct, athletes are subject to non-resident income taxes when they play in a State venue as well as local taxes in municipalities......so an NFL domiciled resident in the state of Florida (no income taxes) plays in Philadelphia, 1/16 of their income is subject to Pennsylvania state income taxes (3.7%) as well as City of Philadelphia local tax (don't know the rate-PA is usually .5% to 2%).....extortion.........

 

According to this article, NY gets a cut of the Dolphins players salary every time they play in Buffalo because Florida does not have any state income tax. So every time the Dolphins play in Buffalo. The players on both teams are taxed by NY state on their income. Again, NY is making a killing off of the Bills being in NY

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-071447565.html

Edited June 1, 2017 by OldNMBillsFan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I believe you are incorrect. I think what you are referring to is the away games. According to this article, NY gets a cut of the Dolphins players salary every time they play in Buffalo because Florida does not have any state income tax. So every time the Dolphins play in Buffalo. The players on both teams are taxed by NY state on their income. Again, NY is making a killing off of the Bills being in NY

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-071447565.html

....yup....away games,...ludicrous right?..............

[OldNMBillsFan]

....yup....away games,...ludicrous right?..............

Crazy. NY must love the fact that Miami comes to town once a year.

[Augie]

Athletes pay in states where they have away games. This "jock tax" is a complete rip off (and SERIOUSLY complicates their taxes!). If a banker or CPA goes to another state for a deal, they don't pay state taxes there.

Crazy. NY must love the fact that Miami comes to town once a year.

 

It's all teams in all sports, not just the Dolphins.

[OldNMBillsFan]

Athletes pay in states where they have away games. This "jock tax" is a complete rip off (and SERIOUSLY complicates their taxes!). If a banker or CPA goes to another state for a deal, they don't pay state taxes there.

 

It's all teams in all sports, not just the Dolphins.

"Jock tax" assessments to players by away-game jurisdictions are credited back to the player in their state of residence but only to the maximum rate in their home state. Players who live in the nine states without state income tax (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming) pay full fare on "jock tax" assessments, Raiola says.

[Augie]

"Jock tax" assessments to players by away-game jurisdictions are credited back to the player in their state of residence but only to the maximum rate in their home state. Players who live in the nine states without state income tax (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming) pay full fare on "jock tax" assessments, Raiola says.[/size]

Interesting, and must lead to a hefty tax prep fee every year!

[SoCal Deek]

I would like a new stadium because traditions form? That means football is more important than the stadium. So tell me again why I would benefit from a new stadium?

My response has NOTHING to do with any 'benefit' you would get from a new stadium. My point is that the stadium you are currently fond of hanging on to was at one time just hole in the ground, built on the cheap, in what was widely thought to be an architectural low point in arena/stadium venue design. I'm pretty sure you would come to grow fond of a new stadium over time as well. Notice that I did NOT use the word 'benefit' in this response either.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I'd be ok with taxpayer money as a loan, where after a tax to repay the loan with reasonable interest was agreed by the stadium operations and or foootball team, if they are the same organization. I'd require multi-use facility planning to return faster.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood

[Chris66]

...no owner in his right mind would break rank and privately fund a stadium 100%.....

one already has. Kraft built his stsdium with private money. Mass. kicked in 80 mill for infrastructure.

[BillsFan2313]

I enjoy New Era Field, so yes it is a waste. I wouldn't enjoy a new stadium any more than New Era. In fact probably less. Tailgating would be dead, and I wouldn't enjoy the actual game any more than I do now.

 

Just an honest question, have you every been to another stadium to watch a sporting event? If so, a new one? I think the experience is WAY better then New Era Field.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Just an honest question, have you every been to another stadium to watch a sporting event? If so, a new one? I think the experience is WAY better then New Era Field.

Not in the NFL because I wouldn't want to pay the price it cost to watch a game at a new stadium. I only watch the game. I don't see how a new stadium would enhance my experience. I don't have club suites, and I don't desire fancy in stadium cuisine or nightclubs. I would go to a new stadium to watch a football game, the same thing I do at older stadiums. Edited June 1, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[BillsFan2313]

Not in the NFL because I wouldn't want to pay the price it cost to watch a game at a new stadium. I only watch the game. I don't see how a new stadium would enhance my experience. I don't have club suites, and I don't desire fancy in stadium cuisine or nightclubs. I would go to a new stadium to watch a football game, the same thing I do at older stadiums.

 

I honestly don't think you can say that, without experiencing it. It's also not just the stadium, the location and what around is a factor. For instance,I found the entertainment district near University of Phoenix stadium pretty cool. We tailgated, then checked that out before heading in for the Bills game. Also, just being a in a state of the art stadium just has a better feel. Going to Pittsburgh, hitting up the casino before a ball game was pretty neat. Check out the Altanta Braves new ball park and whats called "Battery Atlanta" outside the stadium, and tell me that doesn't sound awesome? Now, when you build a new stadium, typically a nice chunk of entertainment around the stadium comes with it. Sadly, it's not all about just the game anymore. People take time out of their busy lives, to enjoy the day with friends/family. Having a new stadium, and what typically comes with that, does enhance the fan experience.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

If the Bills do on fact build a new stadium in the near future, I highly doubt it will include all, or most of the amenities that you find in many of these other new stadiums. Cities like Atlanta, Minneapolis, San Francisco (area), Dallas, all have much larger metropolitan areas than Buffalo, and many more large corporations. Average income there is much different. More people there can afford to spend their money on those amenities than the people in WNY. It's not going to be a straight forward, "build it and they will come" approach.

 

As many here have stated, we don't care to attend a football game to enjoy a night club, or caviar dinners. We care about the game, and tailgating. The people in charge know this. The stadium committee takes several factors into account, including the local economy, fan interest, income, etc., when planning. I'm sure there will be some "updated" amenities, but no where near to the extent of these other buildings. Tickets will cost a bit more, I'm sure, and there will be some PSLs, but all things considered, I'm sure the Pegulas and those in charge will build a stadium that caters to the specific interests of the fan base. It may not be cheap, but I doubt it will be more than $900 million. They can avoid added costs by eliminating or minimizing certain things, like marble floors and granite countertops. Depending on the project, infrastructure may be a larger issue, but if and when the time comes, they'll do it right.

[Real McClappy]

 

I honestly don't think you can say that, without experiencing it. It's also not just the stadium, the location and what around is a factor. For instance,I found the entertainment district near University of Phoenix stadium pretty cool. We tailgated, then checked that out before heading in for the Bills game. Also, just being a in a state of the art stadium just has a better feel. Going to Pittsburgh, hitting up the casino before a ball game was pretty neat. Check out the Altanta Braves new ball park and whats called "Battery Atlanta" outside the stadium, and tell me that doesn't sound awesome? Now, when you build a new stadium, typically a nice chunk of entertainment around the stadium comes with it. Sadly, it's not all about just the game anymore. People take time out of their busy lives, to enjoy the day with friends/family. Having a new stadium, and what typically comes with that, does enhance the fan experience.

 

Still Blue collar man.

 

Just give 90% of Bills fan a parking lot with beer and a seat to sit in and we are good to go. I can personally careless about fancy restaurants or casino's

[BillsFan2313]

 

Still Blue collar man.

 

Just give 90% of Bills fan a parking lot with beer and a seat to sit in and we are good to go. I can personally careless about fancy restaurants or casino's

 

 

That's not being "blue collar". That's being stone age.

If the Bills do on fact build a new stadium in the near future, I highly doubt it will include all, or most of the amenities that you find in many of these other new stadiums. Cities like Atlanta, Minneapolis, San Francisco (area), Dallas, all have much larger metropolitan areas than Buffalo, and many more large corporations. Average income there is much different. More people there can afford to spend their money on those amenities than the people in WNY. It's not going to be a straight forward, "build it and they will come" approach.

 

As many here have stated, we don't care to attend a football game to enjoy a night club, or caviar dinners. We care about the game, and tailgating. The people in charge know this. The stadium committee takes several factors into account, including the local economy, fan interest, income, etc., when planning. I'm sure there will be some "updated" amenities, but no where near to the extent of these other buildings. Tickets will cost a bit more, I'm sure, and there will be some PSLs, but all things considered, I'm sure the Pegulas and those in charge will build a stadium that caters to the specific interests of the fan base. It may not be cheap, but I doubt it will be more than $900 million. They can avoid added costs by eliminating or minimizing certain things, like marble floors and granite countertops. Depending on the project, infrastructure may be a larger issue, but if and when the time comes, they'll do it right.

 

 

 

How is the Harbor Center doing? This is an example of an entertainment addition to his Hockey arena, which seems to be doing well? Pegula will do the same thing with the football stadium, regardless of "keeping it simple" crowd.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

How is the Harbor Center doing? This is an example of an entertainment addition to his Hockey arena, which seems to be doing well? Pegula will do the same thing with the football stadium, regardless of "keeping it simple" crowd.

 

Yeah, but isn't that apples to oranges? The NFL is entirely different. The Harbor Center (to my knowledge) had nothing to do with the NHL, other than being located near the arena. And I don't know the fine details of that, but I don't think the state provided funding, but I could be wrong. That was all Pegula, I think; I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about with that.

 

As far as a new stadium goes, adding things in the vicinity of the stadium isn't necessarily mutually exclusive to the stadium itself. Robert Kraft did something like that around Gillette, I believe, but there was state contribution with infrastructure. Kraft had a plan that would maximize his potential profit, and it worked masterfully. Pegula could do something similar, and probably will, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll receive "extra" funding from the state to do so, other than infrastructure improvements. A potential stadium deal would likely be exclusive to the stadium only, and surrounding infrastructure. Location is unknown, but if the Perry Projects is the plan, that's pretty much the same area as the Harbor Center improvements anyways. If at the current location, I'm not sure what would be done.

 

Let me just say that I have no real preference here. I live outside of NY state, and week 3 will be my first home game attended. If they move downtown, or stay in OP, it doesn't affect me personally. But I have done a ton of research on the topic, including other stadium projects and their funding, so I just try to give some insight on things. Many people have posted on the topic without doing any kind of research (not necessarily in this thread only, but in the past also).

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Still Blue collar man.

 

Just give 90% of Bills fan a parking lot with beer and a seat to sit in and we are good to go. I can personally careless about fancy restaurants or casino's

Exactly. Nothing more to say. I can go to a restaurant or casino any time I please. Twenty dollars at the casino will last for one minute. That twenty dollars could have gotten me beer. I'd rather watch thousands of drunken maniacs in the parking lot. Isn't it more fun to hang out with your friends tailgating than sitting in a restaurant? Edited June 1, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[CodeMonkey]

These same threads pop up all the time. If you asked many people they would prefer that every tax dollar be spread around back to all the people that paid, and did not pay, them. The problem with that is that you wouldn't get anything back larger than a monthly allowance. As someone else said...no parks, museums, roads, etc.

 

Should the United States not have built the Washington Monument? An NFL Stadium is far more than a playground for billionaires. And being an NFL City gets Buffalo far more national (and international) exposure than Des Moines Iowa will ever get. There is indeed a soft marketing value to being home to a major league sports franchise.

Agreed that it does come up from time to time here. But disagree completely about the value to a city of having a NFL team.

There is is no "soft marketing" value to a city having a team. No one, or business, in their right mind is making a decision to go to a city, or stay away from a city, based on having a football team.

 

Teams generate income for businesses near the stadium 8-10 days a year. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things to all but a very select few (like Hammer for example). I would assume the team pays taxes as do most of the management and players. But that in no way offsets anywhere near the cost of the stadium, ongoing maintenance and improvements, and other costs such as police presence.

 

Having a NFL team is great fun for the 60,000 ish that go to those 8-10 games a year. But it is a very expensive luxury if the billionaire owners get handed stadiums by the city and/or state. Buffalo, and new york, really cannot afford that IMO.

 

I live in NY, but not in Erie County. So if the county wants to give the Bills a new stadium, then go for it with my blessing as I have no skin in that game. The same is true if the Bills add costs like a seat license to the fans that go to the games (since they at least use the stadium) to pay for it. But under no circumstances do I want NY giving them a penny. Teams make an awful lot of money to burden the taxpayers, most of which couldn't care less about the Bills, with the very high cost of their stadiums.

Edited June 1, 2017 by CodeMonkey

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Agreed that it does come up from time to time here. But disagree completely about the value to a city of having a NFL team.

There is is no "soft marketing" value to a city having a team. No one, or business, in their right mind is making a decision to go to a city, or stay away from a city, based on having a football team.

 

Teams generate income for businesses near the stadium 8-10 days a year. Insignificant in the grand scheme of things to all but a very select few (like Hammer for example). I would assume the team pays taxes as do most of the management and players. But that in no way offsets anywhere near the cost of the stadium, ongoing maintenance and improvements, and other costs such as police presence.

 

Having a NFL team is great fun for the 60,000 ish that go to those 8-10 games a year. But it is a very expensive luxury if the billionaire owners get handed stadiums by the city and/or state. Buffalo, and new york, really cannot afford that IMO.

 

I live in NY, but not in Erie County. So if the county wants to give the Bills a new stadium, then go for it with my blessing as I have no skin in that game. The same is true if the Bills add costs like a seat license to the fans that go to the games (since they at least use the stadium). But under no circumstances do I want NY giving them a penny. Teams make an awful lot of money to burden the taxpayers, most of which couldn't care less about the Bills, with the very high cost of their stadiums.

Great post. We are all here because we are Bills fans. We are undoubtedly a biased group because of this. Football teams aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. How many people moved away from Houston because the Oilers moved? Outside of team employees I'm sure the answer is zero.

[PolishDave]

 

Just an honest question, have you every been to another stadium to watch a sporting event? If so, a new one? I think the experience is WAY better then New Era Field.

 

Nonsense. Completely disagree. And I have been to numerous other stadiums in the NFL including new ones, including domes.

 

Some have better seating. But as far as football experience goes, Buffalo is the top or damn close. Atmosphere in Buffalo is way more energetic than most too. As long as the seat is comfortable, it is easy to get food/beer and take a leak, what else really matters? The stadium in Orchard Park has all those things. Complete waste to spend taxpayer money on a new one. If the Pegulas want to drive a fancier car, they should buy it themselves. The existing car is still running great and just got a new coat of paint. Run it. Run it till the wheels fall off.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

Nonsense. Completely disagree. And I have been to numerous other stadiums in the NFL including new ones, including domes.

 

Some have better seating. But as far as football experience goes, Buffalo is the top or damn close. Atmosphere in Buffalo is way more energetic than most too. As long as the seat is comfortable, it is easy to get food/beer and take a leak, what else really matters? The stadium in Orchard Park has all those things. Complete waste to spend taxpayer money on a new one. If the Pegulas want to drive a fancier car, they should buy it themselves. The existing car is still running great and just got a new coat of paint. Run it. Run it till the wheels fall off.

...if the Feds would pay for a substantial revision of waterfront interstates and traffic flow, what's wrong with a Lucas Oil Field type downtown?.....certainly don't need Jones or Blank type mausoleums....New Era also has right of first refusal now to a new stadium fully knowing the naming cost escalates.....Chris Koch is on board.............

Edited June 1, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Augie]

I honestly don't think you can say that, without experiencing it. It's also not just the stadium, the location and what around is a factor. For instance,I found the entertainment district near University of Phoenix stadium pretty cool. We tailgated, then checked that out before heading in for the Bills game. Also, just being a in a state of the art stadium just has a better feel. Going to Pittsburgh, hitting up the casino before a ball game was pretty neat. Check out the Altanta Braves new ball park and whats called "Battery Atlanta" outside the stadium, and tell me that doesn't sound awesome? Now, when you build a new stadium, typically a nice chunk of entertainment around the stadium comes with it. Sadly, it's not all about just the game anymore. People take time out of their busy lives, to enjoy the day with friends/family. Having a new stadium, and what typically comes with that, does enhance the fan experience.

 

I live about 3 miles from The Battery, and I can tell you the stadium and the surrounding area are awesome! Don't get me wrong, I have loved the Ralph since the day it opened (I was there), but I'd be surprised if you could find many people who wouldn't want to have something like The Battery in town. It's great to have 365 days a year, not just on game days.

[QCity]

Complete waste to spend taxpayer money on a new one. If the Pegulas want to drive a fancier car, they should buy it themselves. The existing car is still running great and just got a new coat of paint. Run it. Run it till the wheels fall off.

 

 

This argument comes up in every single new stadium thread. It comes down to this: Are you the type of person that

 

A) Enjoys driving a brand new car and typically trades-up before things start falling apart on your current car or

 

B) Will drive a car into the ground running up 300K+ miles on it over decades and keeps the rust held together with duct tape almost as a sense of pride?

 

Have you figured out which personality you associate with? Don't bother, because it doesn't matter. Today's NFL is a country club and they don't want your rust bucket in their parking lot.

 

Sorry, but ticket prices are going up and the title of "Drunkest Fans in the NFL" is going away. A new stadium in the old First Ward may be the worst kept secret in town. Real estate speculation in the area is escalating, the owners just purchased a building that could conveniently be used as an Ops center, and hey -- there's already established parking for ~20K people.

 

[4_kidd_4]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/11/higgins-announce-plans-commodore-perry-housing-complex/

 

interesting.

 

Many residents say they are convinced the housing authority is delaying repairs at Perry because the property will be sold, either to developers or to the Buffalo Bills for a new stadium. The area has been mentioned as a possible site for a new stadium for the Bills, but team owners Terry and Kim Pegula so far have shown little interest in building a new stadium in the city or anywhere else.

[machine gun kelly]

My vote has always been to keep the Ralph and just upgrade it. We go to a game each year as we live in FL, and if they just had some more concession options and a little state money in 2022 maintain the building.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You aren't going to find a lot of support with, "I'd rather the Bills leave than..."

 

The reality is you are going to be looking at a public-private partnership. There are lots of ways to pass the cost along. That's the way the world works and there are 32 teams. You can either fall in line or watch your team leave.

Gary, Indiana... Chicago calling Line #1.

 

Oh wait...

My vote has always been to keep the Ralph and just upgrade it. We go to a game each year as we live in FL, and if they just had some more concession options and a little state money in 2022 maintain the building.

This.

 

We have to keep the hooks out of private parking and tailgating!

 

We are the last of the old model. We are cooler toters that want to pay 20 bucks to park and keep it in the hands of the private enterprises, like private parking and supermarkets.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...start the debate at the top.....would a new venue be domed to potentially facilitate the revenue stream as a four seasons multi-purpose venue versus an open air venue concentrating on 8 home games a year and potentially attracting events during the right season?.....

[DriveFor1Outta5]

...start the debate at the top.....would a new venue be domed to potentially facilitate the revenue stream as a four seasons multi-purpose venue versus an open air venue concentrating on 8 home games a year and potentially attracting events during the right season?.....

How many events would we really get though? McCartney and the Stones only have a few years left. After that point stadium concerts are done. I don't see us getting Super Bowls or Final Fours, so I'm not really certain much would happen in a domed stadium.

[Kirby Jackson]

How many events would we really get though? McCartney and the Stones only have a few years left. After that point stadium concerts are done. I don't see us getting Super Bowls or Final Fours, so I'm not really certain much would happen in a domed stadium.

Final Fours are certainly a possibility but that's maybe once in a 20 year span? The stadium wouldn't be generating a ton of outside income.

 

The reason for the stadium (and it's been hammered ad nauseum) on here is to match the ammentiites and location. The Bills will need the "cover" of a new stadium to raise prices. People don't downgrade locations they just quit. The Bills don't have the luxury of people quitting. The Bills can generate substantially more non-shared revenue with a new venue.

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

The core of the problem has been the increasingly lavish nature of the stadiums themselves. These facilities are WAY over designed. You simply don't need the kind of amenities that they're building into them. I would still like to see Buffalo get a new stadium...but one that speaks to the 'working man' nature of the fan base. One that has a game day experience fitting WNY.

 

As a practicing Architect the idea of a Buffalo-like Stadium really is intriguing.

 

Agreed, An outdoor, grass, open roof stadium is all thats needed, not some ridiculous multipurpose stadium that wont get used much anyway.

Ive always hated football being the 3rd wheel in the current proposals.

-Tracker pulls, rofl, that's worth a billion extra bucks for a roof. I'd rather keep getting winter classics.

-A snowballs chance in Texas that at a Super Bowl will be hosted here.

 

I dont mind a sin tax paying to help build and maintain a FOOTBALL stadium from Erie County with NYS and Pegs help, but I would hate paying an absurd tax to maintain a luxurious dome with the Buffalo winters we get. As St Louis about the dome they had for the Rams that they count maintain and in effect lead to the Rams laving to go back to LA.

 

We dont need a Jerry Jones style stadium just a nice, modern football stadium. This is not a wealthy community its barely blue collar anymore it's more pink, and pink collar workers will never be able to afford season's with PSL's and sin taxes.

 

Here's a quick reality check

-We are the 2nd smallest market in the NFL, 1st being Green Bay, simple stadium is all that is needed.

-The WNY area is ill-equip to handle hosting a Super Bowl.

-The bigger and more multi-purpose the stadium is the higher the taxes will be to maintain and upgrade.

-PSL's suck.

-Retractile roof will not only cost more but be pointless.

-This is WNY where a new international bridge has had its ground breaking on Canada's side 17 years ago and yet no new international bridge yet due to WNY politics.

 

In the end the keeping Ralph might be the best option in all this

[Hammered a Lot]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/11/higgins-announce-plans-commodore-perry-housing-complex/

 

interesting.

 

 

Could it be the new public housing as promised? Or selling the land, which gets it on the tax rolls, and privately developed. It's been suggested the later as it's a natural progression of development from Larkinvile.