No sure fire Franchise QB's in 18' draft class

[JohnC]

That most certainly was not a fact. That might have been the Bills' negotiating stance, but IMO it is unlikely they would have released him, especially after McDermott was hired. You're statement that Tyrod would have been released is nothing more than your uninformed speculation.

Exactly right. They want to see what Tyrod does this year, with another season under his belt, a new system, and (hopefully) some healthy WRs.

Your response makes no sense at all. If what you are saying is accurate then why did TT agree to a modified deal? TT and his reps knew that there wasn't a better deal for him on the market. Because if there were offers (under the table) he would have simply walked away to a better offer and situation.

 

The facts are that the Bills didn't release him because he adjusted[/b[ his contract. If he would have insisted on keeping his original deal then odds are that McDermott would have also allowed him to walk. What is well known now is that once McDermott was hired he was running the show. And it is probable that he was not going to keep him under the original terms because the lower deal was worked out when McDermott was de facto the boss.

Someone made an important distinction between a "bridge" deal and a "prove-it" deal. Hoyer is a bridge QB. McCown is a bridge QB. Glennon (now) is a bridge QB (but wasn't at the time of signing). Bridge QBs are guys that you are certain to move on from. Often you have the successor in the building already.

 

Tyrod is on a prove-it deal to me. It's a totally new staff and scheme. They had an opportunity to add his successor this year and they punted. They kicked that can down the road, electing to evaluate him instead. They've insured against a bad season with the extra 1st rounder. I would suspect that the plan is to use it on a QB but certainly wouldn't guarantee it. The actions that they've taken show us that they want to evaluate.

You and I are riding different horses on the carousel so neither one is going to catch up to the other. Our differences are irreconcilable because our evaluations are the qb are different. My position is that being an adequate qb is not good enough to get you anywhere meaningful. You see more than I do; I have seen enough. We just respectfully disagree.

[mannc]

Your response makes no sense at all. If what you are saying is accurate then why did TT agree to a modified deal? TT and his reps knew that there wasn't a better deal for him on the market. Because if there were offers (under the table) he would have simply walked away to a better offer and situation.

 

The facts are that the Bills didn't release him because he adjusted[/b[ his contract. If he would have insisted on keeping his original deal then odds are that McDermott would have also allowed him to walk. What is well known now is that once McDermott was hired he was running the show. And it is probable that he was not going to keep him under the original terms because the lower deal was worked out when McDermott was de facto the boss.

 

John, you have no idea whether what you are espousing as established fact (that Tyrod would have been dropped if he did not restructure) is true. And then you attempt to back it up with speculation about what teams might have illegally offered "under the table" for Tyrod's services. You then throw in some circular reasoning: McDermott would not have kept Tyrod under his original deal because he negotiated a lower one. Come on, you're better than that.

 

There were many potential reasons Tyrod would have agreed to restructure, many of which Hokie has already covered in this thread. But one of the potential reasons is that Tyrod and his agent believed that the Bills might not pick up the option if he refused to restructure, and they chose to take what the Bills were offering, for many different reasons. It's called a negotiation, and neither side really knows what the other side is going to do.

[Kirby Jackson]

Your response makes no sense at all. If what you are saying is accurate then why did TT agree to a modified deal? TT and his reps knew that there wasn't a better deal for him on the market. Because if there were offers (under the table) he would have simply walked away to a better offer and situation.

 

The facts are that the Bills didn't release him because he adjusted[/b[ his contract. If he would have insisted on keeping his original deal then odds are that McDermott would have also allowed him to walk. What is well known now is that once McDermott was hired he was running the show. And it is probable that he was not going to keep him under the original terms because the lower deal was worked out when McDermott was de facto the boss.

You and I are riding different horses on the carousel so neither one is going to catch up to the other. Our differences are irreconcilable because our evaluations are the qb are different. My position is that being an adequate qb is not good enough to get you anywhere meaningful. You see more than I do; I have seen enough. We just respectfully disagree.

This has nothing to do with my evaluation. I'm simply reading the tea leaves of their actions. They decided to keep him and have not made a move to bring in the "next guy" which they had a chance to do. Peterman isn't that guy either or they wouldn't have passed on him 3 times. They made a conscious decision to let it play out. They did this despite the fact that the GM (who is no longer here) was not very fond of TT. The decision to keep him was certainly McDermott and his staff.

 

We aren't going to agree on the player but this isn't about OUR feelings. This is about how the Bills chose to handle the situation. If the Bills would have declined the option and/or drafted a guy early it may have been different. That's where Alex Smith is now. The Bills could have signed a Hoyer or McCown for WAY less than $15M and drafted a guy in the 1st. They could have done what SF did and signed Hoyer and waited a year. They would have saved the cap dollars. They didn't. They elected to pay him $15M and bring him back without real competition. That is a prove-it deal.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[mannc]

 

You and I are riding different horses on the carousel so neither one is going to catch up to the other. Our differences are irreconcilable because our evaluations are the qb are different. My position is that being an adequate qb is not good enough to get you anywhere meaningful. You see more than I do; I have seen enough. We just respectfully disagree.

Kirby can speak for himself, but I don't think he was expressing his own opinion about Tyrod's ability. He was just arguing from the available evidence that the Bills don't necessarily view Tryod as strictly a bridge QB, and I think the fact that they did not draft Watson or Mahomes this year lends strong support to that view.

[JohnC]

John, you have no idea whether what you are espousing as established fact (that Tyrod would have been dropped if he did not restructure) is true. And then you attempt to back it up with speculation about what teams might have illegally offered "under the table" for Tyrod's services. You then throw in some circular reasoning: McDermott would not have kept Tyrod under his original deal because he negotiated a lower one. Come on, you're better than that.

 

There were many potential reasons Tyrod would have agreed to restructure, many of which Hokie has already covered in this thread. But one of the potential reasons is that Tyrod and his agent believed that the Bills might not pick up the option if he refused to restructure, and they chose to take what the Bills were offering, for many different reasons. It's called a negotiation, and neither side really knows what the other side is going to do.

With respect to the highlighted segment one side was going down and the other side was not moving up. It was repeatedly reported that TT had to accept a lower deal in order to remain with the team. If Whaley had the authority and he didn't, he would have simply cut him.

 

As far as dismissing the reality of the business world where agents (technically illegal but tacitly accepted practice) make inquiries into what the market has to offer I say this respectfully that you are being naive. His agents knew what his value was and was not in the market. And they knew which teams were interested or not for his services before his contract expired.

 

Do you really believe that there was a team or teams interested in him as a starter and willing to abide by his original contract he would have stayed?

[mannc]

John, you have no idea what was happening in the negotiation. All you're doing is guessing. And any reporter who said Tyrod had to accept a lesser deal to remain with the team was guessing, too, or being duped. I'm sure OBD wanted Tyrod and his agent to believe that.

 

That being said, it's not unreasonable to conclude that Tyrod and his agent had some idea what his value might be on the open market, whether through back channels or just through talking to people around the league. The truth is, I don't know if they had inside information or not, and neither do you. But it would not surprise me if there was a pretty tepid market for Tyrod. He is an unconventional quarterback and I'm sure a lot of teams were not interested in redesigning their offenses to suit his perceived strengths and weaknesses. Ironically, it is those same unconventional qualities that make Tyrod a difficult QB for other teams to gameplan against.

Edited May 22, 2017 by mannc

[DasNootz]

Watson was "Next Year's Guy" last year at this time...

[Doc]

Watson was "Next Year's Guy" last year at this time...

 

Was he?

[jeffismagic]

With respect to the highlighted segment one side was going down and the other side was not moving up. It was repeatedly reported that TT had to accept a lower deal in order to remain with the team. If Whaley had the authority and he didn't, he would have simply cut him.

 

As far as dismissing the reality of the business world where agents (technically illegal but tacitly accepted practice) make inquiries into what the market has to offer I say this respectfully that you are being naive. His agents knew what his value was and was not in the market. And they knew which teams were interested or not for his services before his contract expired.

 

Do you really believe that there was a team or teams interested in him as a starter and willing to abide by his original contract he would have stayed?

 

John, this won't work. The true believers now take it as an article of faith that Tyrod took less money because he believed in Buffalo. Of course this would sound ridiculous if a Bear fan made the same case for Mike Glennon but here we are.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

With respect to the highlighted segment one side was going down and the other side was not moving up. It was repeatedly reported that TT had to accept a lower deal in order to remain with the team. If Whaley had the authority and he didn't, he would have simply cut him.

 

As far as dismissing the reality of the business world where agents (technically illegal but tacitly accepted practice) make inquiries into what the market has to offer I say this respectfully that you are being naive. His agents knew what his value was and was not in the market. And they knew which teams were interested or not for his services before his contract expired.

 

Do you really believe that there was a team or teams interested in him as a starter and willing to abide by his original contract he would have stayed?

 

....nothing to argue with here.....a spot on assessment IMO......he's young enough to set himself up for a bigger payday down the road if Dennison succeeds in developing him.....

 

....nothing to argue with here.....a spot on assessment IMO......he's young enough to set himself up for a bigger payday down the road if Dennison succeeds in developing him and he opts for FA to test the market........

[JohnC]

 

....nothing to argue with here.....a spot on assessment IMO......he's young enough to set himself up for a bigger payday down the road if Dennison succeeds in developing him.....

Taylor has been in the league six years or so. He is far from being a rookie. What you see is what you get. His style of play and level of play are what you now see. Can he get appreciably better? I don't believe so. He has certain strengths such as his mobility and he throws an exceptional long ball. (Beauty to behold.) But his limitations that relate to vision, reading defenses, going through progressions, feel for the pocket and anticipatory throws etc are simply part of his game that you have to be willing to accept. As with Fitz what you see is what you get. Wishing a player to play beyond his abilities is an exercise in frustration.

 

I'm not condemning him as a player. I'm pointing out that he is not the caliber of qb that is going to get your team anywhere meaningful. Those opinions have a tendency to rile up the loyalists.

[stuvian]

the only sure thing franchise QBs of this generation are Luck and Newton. Any GM who advocates waiting for that has as much chance as a lotto player and should be fired. The whole premise of paying football men is their ability to spot, recruit and develop talent.

[JTO]

..

[BillsFan17]

Tyrod him self said his agent spoke to teams at the combine. Not officially, but they absolutely knew the interest around the league.

 

I sincerely doubt anyone would have given him a deal with term or security.

 

I have been told that this is exactly what Tyrod wanted and him and his agent won't this negotiation.

 

Either way you slice it, buffalo isn't making a major roll of the dice with Tyrod. They shaved off years for a reason. They structured the money so that they could walk away easily for a reason.

 

Barring some miracle run by Tyrod, I would strongly suggest paying attention to the potential specs coming out in the 2018 draft.

the only sure thing franchise QBs of this generation are Luck and Newton. Any GM who advocates waiting for that has as much chance as a lotto player and should be fired. The whole premise of paying football men is their ability to spot, recruit and develop talent.

Newton was far from that come draft time. There were plenty of detractors with him only having one full season of Division 1 ball. Yes, he played at Blinn and dominated, but there was plenty of sceptics.

 

As far as Luck, he was the "generational" talent, and even then some thought RG3 was the better PROSPECT.

 

Funny, now there is a debate if Winston/Mariota are better than Luck.

[gonzo1105]

I'd say Josh Allen has the most upside out of Rosen Darnold and Allen. Darnold will be the safest guy out of those 3.

[Big Blitz]

The next big elite QB is Derek Carr. Drafted in the 2nd round.

 

From the list of QBs drafted since 2010, IMO he's the cream of a thin crop. The 2000 teens have been very uninspiring so far.

 

Carr

Cam

Luck

Marriota

Jameis

Dalton?

Cousins?

 

Everyone else is meh.

 

We're well over due on getting a new wave of elite QBs like we saw 2000--2009.

 

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

As it sits right now it looks like Sam Darnold and Josh Allen have a better ceiling then what we had in the 2017 draft. But here are 2 undeniable Facts

 

1. Out of the QB's picked this year.. one of them are going to look good out of the gate.

2. Picking any QB is like playing craps... No one knows how a QB will turn out.

 

Pat Mahomes and Kizzer are the 2 QB's that were there for the taking and we didn't take them.. chances are they wont work out but who knows.. No one has a crystal ball.

 

I do not want Yates on this team.. Period.. I don't care how many games we loose, we need to look at what we have with the prospects this year.. Including starting Peterman 1 game this year if/when Taylor plays bad.. We need to evaluate and quickly because next year we are in position to move up and get our man.. but anyone that says next years draft will be better then this year for QB's? is full of it.. the only way to gauge is look at there ceiling.. and Sam Darnold or Josh Allen looking good at this point.

[BigBuff423]

I'm not sure where the Bills will be Drafting next year of course, and we don't know how the college season will play out leading to the evaluation of QBs, but one thing I do know is that the Bills have accumulated a nice group of talent evaluators and trust if they were to ever to get it right since the Kelly era, I believe this is the group to do it...so, let's see what happens, but it currently appears to be a good year to have TWO 1st round picks, more so than some other years.

[KDIGGZ]

i've heard a lot of negative things about Rosen. before you believe that stuff read this: http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

 

the guy is going to be a star. reminds me of aaron rodgers. and we are going to miss out on him because we are picking 10-15 and even with an extra first in the 20's we can only move up to around 5. probably going to the 49ers. we are going to be 6-10 forever

[oldmanfan]

i've heard a lot of negative things about Rosen. before you believe that stuff read this: http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/a-beautiful-brash-mind/

 

the guy is going to be a star. reminds me of aaron rodgers. and we are going to miss out on him because we are picking 10-15 and even with an extra first in the 20's we can only move up to around 5. probably going to the 49ers. we are going to be 6-10 forever

Drama queen