Reed83HOF Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Josh NorrisVerified account @JoshNorris 15m15 minutes ago Josh Norris Retweeted Cian Fahey "Kizer’s footwork is special. His feet are always balanced and patient but he knows when to make decisive movements." http://presnapreads.com/2017/04/12/evaluating-quarterback-prospects-mitchell-trubisky-and-deshaun-watson/ A few tidbits: "Yet despite the constant failures that come with being a draft analyst, there are plenty of people who will try to teach you how to scout. As if there is some formula that works perfectly. Michael Lombardi is one of those people. Recently Lombardi wrote his seven rules to finding a franchise quarterback on the Ringer. The article primarily focuses on mental attributes and the aesthetics. Most of what Lombardi said sounds great until you realize it can’t actually be used to proactively identify franchise quarterbacks. It relies on catchphrases and tries to examine elements of the person rather than the player. ... It’s hard to win in the NFL with a quarterback who wastes snaps. Andy Dalton, Blake Bortles and Alex Smith are some of the worst offenders when it comes to this. Tyrod Taylor and Russell Wilson are too but they offset the plays they waste by creating outside of structure more often than other quarterbacks. Wilson and Taylor are great examples of players who have some very specific flaws but those flaws exist in the minority of their performances. The 90+ percent of what they do on the field outweighs the other 10 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 qb no.1 evaluation over everything else...td to int. ratio. qbs who are in the 90/10% seem to always succeed vs. 60/40% thats why i'd rather go trubisky 30-6 my ratios above are a general but it's the idea and the number one indicator to me. a qb who throws over 15 picks in a season in college is probably gonna be a pick machine in the pros///jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You want college production with NFL traits. Using this metric I like Trubisky and Mahomes the best out of the 4 most mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I don't think Tru will be there at 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I don't agree with the entire article and take great exception to Cam Newton being lumped in with Ryan Leaf. Those two don't belong in the same article. I agree that Watson is a superior prospect to Trubisky at this point and has of the charts intangibles. Looking at film I was surprised by how good of a runner Trubisky is and watching the Watson film I was pleasantly surprised by his passing technique and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I am still shocked at how little respect Watson gets. The guy did thing against defenses that regularly produce first and second round talent. I agree, the whole MPH at the combine on the ball is concerning, however there is the unmeasurable "IT" factor that Watson has. You always want players that shine when the lights are the brightest and Watson does that in spades. However, I have to wonder if his turnovers will carry over into the NFL. You look at or current NFL MVP and his draft year stats. Crazy to think he was so much more regarded than Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lothar Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I don't agree with the entire article and take great exception to Cam Newton being lumped in with Ryan Leaf. Those two don't belong in the same article. I agree that Watson is a superior prospect to Trubisky at this point and has of the charts intangibles. Looking at film I was surprised by how good of a runner Trubisky is and watching the Watson film I was pleasantly surprised by his passing technique and accuracy. I believe he thinks Watson would flop in the NFL based on his tangible traits, Mahomes has some upside but probably isn't capable of changing his propensity to run, Kizer has great footwork and bad accuracy.The only one he thinks has the necessary footwork and accuracy required to be a top 10 pick is Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulles Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Josh NorrisVerified account @JoshNorris 15m15 minutes ago Josh Norris Retweeted Cian Fahey "Kizer’s footwork is special. His feet are always balanced and patient but he knows when to make decisive movements." http://presnapreads.com/2017/04/12/evaluating-quarterback-prospects-mitchell-trubisky-and-deshaun-watson/ Serious question...Who is Josh Norris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Serious question...Who is Josh Norris? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=josh+norris+nfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Who do you think he's referring to? Recently a top prospect I wont say who was dinged by his college teammates. They hated him to the degree that they refused to attend any of his private workouts. Thats a huge red flag. An unfortunate NFL team ignored it and drafted him on Day 1. What happened? His new teammates ended up feeling just like his old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Who do you think he's referring to? Lynch? Goff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Lynch? Goff? Would we know one way or the other about them by now? I think possibly Bortles who has developed a rep in Jacksonville for not loving the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Would we know one way or the other about them by now? I think possibly Bortles who has developed a rep in Jacksonville for not loving the process. Cian Fahey. Analytics expert turned QB "guru". He is training at the school of Cossell ballet dancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Cian Fahey. Analytics expert turned QB "guru". He is training at the school of Cossell ballet dancing. The line about teammates hating him was from Lombardi actually not Fahey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 The line about teammates hating him was from Lombardi actually not Fahey. Yeah, I saw that. Just laughed at anyone retweeting Fahey. What really annoys me is he refuses to use analytics on the QBs, that's what he gets known for. Instead he is writing about the beauty of Kizer's footwork?! Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I saw that. Just laughed at anyone retweeting Fahey. What really annoys me is he refuses to use analytics on the QBs, that's what he gets known for. Instead he is writing about the beauty of Kizer's footwork?! Ugh. Yet he says that Kizer's accuracy flaws outweigh the footwork skills. I thought it was an excellent piece -- one of the better ones I've read lately. Someone above (not you) takes issue with the article for comparing Newton to Leaf. What article was he reading? Newton comes off well in this piece. People on this board can be so nasty toward the passionate amateurs who craft theses sites, regardless of the fact that those passionate amateurs are far better than most of us at breaking things down and actually have the get up and go to actually craft an article and post it. Edited April 13, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Cian Fahey. Analytics expert turned QB "guru". He is training at the school of Cossell ballet dancing. You have a weird obsession with Cian Fahey. Can't handle a little difference in opinion huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You have a weird obsession with Cian Fahey. Can't handle a little difference in opinion huh? I can handle a different opinion. Greg Cossell has a completely different view on QB evaluation. But at least he shows his work and you understand where he is coming from. Fahey gets press for his analytics articles but during draft season he seems to be cribbing from Cossell but making it more click worthy. I see some of his latest QB work and talking about Kizer like a dancer made me laugh out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Who do you think he's referring to? Bo Callahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Bo Ca Bo Callahan LMAO can you see on Draft day McDermott looking at Whaley and the top scouts saying "I am trying real hard not to completely lose my **** on all of you right now, but you're not making it easy." I can handle a different opinion. Greg Cossell has a completely different view on QB evaluation. But at least he shows his work and you understand where he is coming from. Fahey gets press for his analytics articles but during draft season he seems to be cribbing from Cossell but making it more click worthy. I see some of his latest QB work and talking about Kizer like a dancer made me laugh out loud. My friend you and I agree on many things, but I say Cosell is nothing more than another "expert" that knows nothing. Remember this? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152748/article/ryan-nassib-is-top-qb-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 LMAO can you see on Draft day McDermott looking at Whaley and the top scouts saying "I am trying real hard not to completely lose my **** on all of you right now, but you're not making it easy." My friend you and I agree on many things, but I say Cosell is nothing more than another "expert" that knows nothing. Remember this? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152748/article/ryan-nassib-is-top-qb-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says I like Cossell because it helps me understand how 75 year old scouts on NFL teams pick QB's so poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Yet he says that Kizer's accuracy flaws outweigh the footwork skills. I thought it was an excellent piece -- one of the better ones I've read lately. Someone above (not you) takes issue with the article for comparing Newton to Leaf. What article was he reading? Newton comes off well in this piece. People on this board can be so nasty toward the passionate amateurs who craft theses sites, regardless of the fact that those passionate amateurs are far better than most of us at breaking things down and actually have the get up and go to actually craft an article and post it. Agreed. I read his others on Kizer and Mahomes too. They are very convincing. No one can project QB success perfectly, but he is definitely looking at some intriguing subtleties, which I, for one, would never notice on my own. I enjoyed his takes, and learned a lot from them. Made me feel a lot more intrigued by Kizer than I otherwise would have been, and much more skeptical about Mahomes than I have been to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I like Cossell because it helps me understand how 75 year old scouts on NFL teams pick QB's so poorly. #truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I like Cossell because it helps me understand how 75 year old scouts on NFL teams pick QB's so poorly. I put Cossell / Polian / Jaws / Kiper / McShay in the same bucket. If they knew half as much as they pretend to, some NFL team would be paying them A LOT more money than their current networks. I tend to respect Jeremiah's (and Bucky Brooks on their podcast) opinion the highest of the bunch. He's had offers to work for teams but NFL net is making it worth his while to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I put Cossell / Polian / Jaws / Kiper / McShay in the same bucket. If they knew half as much as they pretend to, some NFL team would be paying them A LOT more money than their current networks. I tend to respect Jeremiah's (and Bucky Brooks on their podcast) opinion the highest of the bunch. He's had offers to work for teams but NFL net is making it worth his while to stay. It's not like these guys don't bring value. Jaworski is one of the best guys at bringing information on current QB's playing in the NFL. Cossell seems solid when talking about current NFL play as well. Cossell's methods would be useful for finding a good backup or marginal starter in a later round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 qb no.1 evaluation over everything else...td to int. ratio. qbs who are in the 90/10% seem to always succeed vs. 60/40% thats why i'd rather go trubisky 30-6 my ratios above are a general but it's the idea and the number one indicator to me. a qb who throws over 15 picks in a season in college is probably gonna be a pick machine in the pros///jmo Matt Ryan senior season 19 Ints Jameis Winston senior season 18 Ints Deshaun Watson senior season 17 Ints The first two guys appear to be working out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I put Cossell / Polian / Jaws / Kiper / McShay in the same bucket. If they knew half as much as they pretend to, some NFL team would be paying them A LOT more money than their current networks. I tend to respect Jeremiah's (and Bucky Brooks on their podcast) opinion the highest of the bunch. He's had offers to work for teams but NFL net is making it worth his while to stay. Did you really lump Bill Polian in with those guys? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 It's not like these guys don't bring value. Jaworski is one of the best guys at bringing information on current QB's playing in the NFL. Cossell seems solid when talking about current NFL play as well. Cossell's methods would be useful for finding a good backup or marginal starter in a later round. Dude your takes are so... bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Moulds on my A** Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Dude your takes are so... bizarre. How bizarre... how bizarre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Dude your takes are so... bizarre. Cossell falls in love with Blake Bortles hates Derek Carr. This year it's Davis Webb and he hates Mahomes. Cossell your cup of tea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Cossell falls in love with Blake Bortles hates Derek Carr. This year it's Davis Webb and he hates Mahomes. Cossell your cup of tea? Who is this "Cossell" you keep talking about? Edited April 13, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Who is this "Cossell"? He works for NFL films. His uncle was Howard Cossell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 He works for NFL films. His uncle was Howard Cossell.Who is Howard Cossell? Is he any relation to Howard Cosell, of MNF fame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Matt Ryan senior season 19 Ints Jameis Winston senior season 18 Ints Deshaun Watson senior season 17 Ints The first two guys appear to be working out You can't discount the TDs either, the guy have 50 combined. 50/17 is not a bad ratio, that is +43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You can't discount the TDs either, the guy have 50 combined. 50/17 is not a bad ratio, that is +43. I am reliably told by many on this board that the qb interest is a smokescreen, so apparently none of this matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You can't discount the TDs either, the guy have 50 combined. 50/17 is not a bad ratio, that is +43. You sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You sure about that? 33, Cosell -- you happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 33, Cosell -- you happy now? Someone has to maintain the high standards of TSW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Someone has to maintain the high standards of TSW... Message board proofreader is a full-time job. Watch out for Trubinsky . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I am reliably told by many on this board that the qb interest is a smokescreen, so apparently none of this matters. Recent history shows our supposed QB interest is more likely a smokescreen than not. I remember us loving Carson Wentz, and having dinner with Garrett Grayson, and before that it was Ryan Nassib as our potential 1st pick. Don't believe anything you hear this time of the offseason. You can't discount the TDs either, the guy have 50 combined. 50/17 is not a bad ratio, that is +43. College stats are mostly meaningless anyways. Watson ran a one-read spread offense at Clemson, had inconsistent footwork and inconsistent accuracy/ball placement. Throwing that many interceptions in a college offense is a big red flag. He relied on his athleticism which won't work as well in the NFL. IMO he is a 3rd round project at best. Which means I expect him to get taken in the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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