teef Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) It is myth that the "lower types" (and I say this as a born and bred WNY'er) pay for the likes of the people from NYC. NYC has Wall Street (Buffalo doesn't have that). NYC has massive travel and tourism (WNY has it but not to that level). It's been an enduring theme in WNY that WNY'ers support so-called "welfare" in NYC, but WNY doesn't have the industrial base, and I don't mean just factories, to support that theme. I happen to be partial to WNY, and hopes that it really can smash it in its current resurgence, but to crap on other residents of the same state as being a burden is highly disingenuous. To look at it another way, NYC, CA, TX, and many other large cities (who reside in larger states population-wise) have a higher GNP growth than a vast number of countries in the world, and in that light, people like me have a reason to gravitate towards these cities given their opportunities -- rather than holding fort in WNY, because, you know, if we're all conservatives here (I'm sure we all are), you reward ambition and so forth, oh, and I just happen to be highly ambitious. Yes, there is a higher cost center to run cities in these states, but seriously? Do you think that the force of Wall Street, the strong travel and tourism, and NYC being NYC doesn't trump (no pun intended) a market like WNY -- who is finding its way? I don't believe for a second that WNY is holding NYC together, to be completely frank. that certainly wasn't my intention. don't get me wrong...nyc is the economic capital of the world, but how much goes back to the actual day to day living in the city. with a huge city come a large police/security force, infrasturcture, mass transit, water, electricity etc. i looked around quickly for an article that outlines how much of the money is dolled out, and of course i can't find it, so i can't back any of this up . i'm not saying that nyc needs upstate to exist, but i know that a chunk of taxes up here are used towards city issues. also, i have no idea what being ambitious has to do with moving towards the city. i'm 39, have my own business, and create jobs in the area. it's not a large business, but i was more than able to be in wny and make a good profit. i'm sure i could have done well in nyc, but i'd literally have to gouge my clients to cover my overhead. i fix a lot of messes that i see come from guys in the city, and on top of that, they were financially held over the coals to get the work done in the first place. Edited March 28, 2017 by teef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Great points and honestly I agree. However, and along with the matters as stated above please let us not leave out our fresh water and hydroelectric power, which other areas don't have, but seemingly it's every other part of the State's (and other States) entitlement to enjoy. Please, please anyone around here feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I may just have a bad memory on something. That said, I thought there was a bill on the ballot a couple of decades ago proposing a water pipeline be built down to the Southern States and that we would pay for part of it. Our compensation? I am not even sure it was mentioned in the Bill or the lead up to it...I just know we weren't involved. I was amazed at the Bill and voted "No" on it...I was more amazed that it almost passed. NYC's power comes from a variety of sources, from the Hudson, Atlantic Ocean, and from WNY. NYT and other sources documented this a few years ago. There is no single-payer system to powering NYC, or for picking up its trash, but it's a behemoth, so it's not like WNY is footing the bill for it as some would lead you to believe. As for the water bill, well, water in this country is a highly complex issue, because there is not a single source for that resource. Out west, people are proposing damming the Rio Grande/Chamma to get the desired results. In NYC people still use water towers to catch rain water, which, in spite of how long it has been used, is a fantastic idea (some stuff just never gets old). Not sure how the water issue negatively impacts WNY, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crowing Rooster Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 A lot of people here believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. Yeah. Just ask my grandsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Some people like attention. The OP is one of those and he got what he desired. Beside that, there is nothing worth commenting on concerning this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 can we just ban everyone who signed up after the bills closed their board and has started a thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 that certainly wasn't my intention. don't get me wrong...nyc is the economic capital of the world, but how much goes back to the actual day to day living in the city. with a huge city come a large police/security force, infrasturcture, mass transit, water, electricity etc. i looked around quickly for an article that outlines how much of the money is dolled out, and of course i can't find it, so i can't back any of this up . i'm not saying that nyc needs upstate to exist, but i know that a chunk of taxes up here are used towards city issues. also, i have no idea what being ambitious has to do with moving towards city. i'm 39, have my own business, and create jobs in the area. it's not a large business, but i was more than able to be in wny and make a good profit. i'm sure i could have done well in nyc, but i'd literally have to gouge my clients to cover my overhead. i fix a lot of messes that i see come from guys in the city, and on top of that, they were financially held over the coals to get the work done in the first place. I just happen to work in tech, and that wasn't a priority in WNY back in the day. Thinking of moving back, now that I can do something meaningful for a change. Prior to getting a degree, while living in WNY, I worked at Tops, Record Theater, as a security guard at a hazardous waste dump, and at a patch-making factory. Good times one and all, and I mean that in earnest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I see the Bills as extremely safe but you never know in this world. Given how much dedication and money the Pegula's have I cant see them looking at another market and thinking the grass is greener there. I'd say the Bills are 99% safe with 1% reserved for if a meteor or earthquake devastated the area and there was no choice but to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) I just happen to work in tech, and that wasn't a priority in WNY back in the day. Thinking of moving back, now that I can do something meaningful for a change. Prior to getting a degree, while living in WNY, I worked at Tops, Record Theater, as a security guard at a hazardous waste dump, and at a patch-making factory. Good times one and all, and I mean that in earnest. certain profession needed to move out of wny at one point. there just wasn't the demand, and i saw a lot of close personal friends move away. for whatever reason, most are beginning to move back. i loved city living for a while as i lived in boston, but at the end of the day, i can do what i do anywhere, and opportunity popped up, and here i am. to be honest, if it wasn't for my family and now established work, i likely wouldn't live in this state at all due to the tax structure, but now there's no way my wife if leaving her extended family. i have one friend who had to leave wny for work, and can't wait to blast the area any chance he can. he's almost bitter about it, but thats just the way certain professions went. Edited March 28, 2017 by teef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't give a damn what Terry and Kim say. I guess some of you still believe the media and in Santa and the easter bunny. Buffalo aka WNY, can NOT afford a new stadium, sorry no. Fans in WNY can't afford PSL's and jacked up ticket prices, parking prices etc. It's possible the market there cannot support all the costs that come. This alone might be the reason why the pause. Now all of a sudden the NFL dude says its right for the Pegulas to back off working on a new stadium for awhile? Sorry folks am an old realist and right now, in light of THREE Teams moving, I say the plan is to move to Toronto. The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. Any team could move or fold at any time for any unforeseen reason. Unlikely but not impossible. Why worry? The NFL wants a team there badly, they can support the new stadium, will pay to get the Bills there and it makes the NFL more money. If you buy this Bull crap of "oh they have the greatest fans, they have history there blah blah blah" I don't know what to tell you. The NFL wants a team there soooo badly 3 teams relocated to.... no there. Maybe it's not so Badly wanted. I'm not convinced Toronto is a slam dunk for the NFL. Are we sure the NFL is? Not all Canadians will welcome a foreign product coming in and attempting to usurp the CFL fan base... The NFL does not give one S#@! about us the fans, they don't care about the history of Buffalo. They care about money, and if they get a new stadium in a big new market by moving the Bills, the Bills are gonna move no matter what the Pegulas say publicly. By definition, caring about money means caring about the fans continuing to pay money, which means caring about the fans. They just don't care about fans the way you wish they did, but they are in the business of caring about fans. No go ahead and rant and whatnot on this thread, it won't matter in the long run if you do or don't. I am just looking at a financial reality with the NFL, and the WNY market. I'm really not sure the 'reality' that is presented here. Because you believe the NFL has a profit motive and because you believe Toronto has significant market potential, the Bills owners must be lying about their intent to keep the Bills in WNY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbillsball Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 If the Pegulas moved the Bills to Toronto, they better move the Sabres there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROONDOGG55 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't give a damn what Terry and Kim say. I guess some of you still believe the media and in Santa and the easter bunny. Buffalo aka WNY, can NOT afford a new stadium, sorry no. Fans in WNY can't afford PSL's and jacked up ticket prices, parking prices etc. Now all of a sudden the NFL dude says its right for the Pegulas to back off working on a new stadium for awhile? Sorry folks am an old realist and right now, in light of THREE Teams moving, I say the plan is to move to Toronto. The NFL wants a team there badly, they can support the new stadium, will pay to get the Bills there and it makes the NFL more money. If you buy this Bull crap of "oh they have the greatest fans, they have history there blah blah blah" I don't know what to tell you. The NFL does not give one S#@! about us the fans, they don't care about the history of Buffalo. They care about money, and if they get a new stadium in a big new market by moving the Bills, the Bills are gonna move no matter what the Pegulas say publicly. No go ahead and rant and whatnot on this thread, it won't matter in the long run if you do or don't. I am just looking at a financial reality with the NFL, and the WNY market. The NFL has backed off because they are losing business with all of these moves. The idea for the NFL in "my opinion" is to expand the league by creating new teams rather than moving them. In order to do so, they would need multiple new teams to even out the divisions. With the NFL playing games in London, Toronto, Mexico, and soon in China, I can see a new "World" division coming together. I believe China would be too far, which is why the NFL has backed off from that idea. But, I do believe the NFL has a strong desire to expand in those countries rather than moving a team there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 It is myth that the "lower types" (and I say this as a born and bred WNY'er) pay for the likes of the people from NYC. NYC has Wall Street (Buffalo doesn't have that). NYC has massive travel and tourism (WNY has it but not to that level). It's been an enduring theme in WNY that WNY'ers support so-called "welfare" in NYC, but WNY doesn't have the industrial base, and I don't mean just factories, to support that theme. I happen to be partial to WNY, and hopes that it really can smash it in its current resurgence, but to crap on other residents of the same state as being a burden is highly disingenuous. To look at it another way, NYC, CA, TX, and many other large cities (who reside in larger states population-wise) have a higher GNP growth than a vast number of countries in the world, and in that light, people like me have a reason to gravitate towards these cities given their opportunities -- rather than holding fort in WNY, because, you know, if we're all conservatives here (I'm sure we all are), you reward ambition and so forth, oh, and I just happen to be highly ambitious. Yes, there is a higher cost center to run cities in these states, but seriously? Do you think that the force of Wall Street, the strong travel and tourism, and NYC being NYC doesn't trump (no pun intended) a market like WNY -- who is finding its way? I don't believe for a second that WNY is holding NYC together, to be completely frank. i looked around, and although i didn't find anything great, i'm pretty wrong about the tax money getting funneled down to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The Pegulas have already invested far too much money in the Bills, Sabres and the city of Buffalo to sell off the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NeckBeard Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 i looked around, and although i didn't find anything great, i'm pretty wrong about the tax money getting funneled down to the city. Alright. :-) Don't forget that NYC has borough taxes as well. Love visiting NYC, but would never want to live there. Way, way too much city for my (simple) tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I thought it said Jills in the title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Well, you're wrong. Let's keep this as simple as possible: you actually believe that a guy is going to spend close to $2B on sports teams, and an additional $500M on development of the downtown area, just to turn around and vacate the area? This is without considering that he'd have to sell the hockey team (probably at a loss) and pay hundreds of millions of dollars in relocation fees, plus a cool billion on a new stadium. That would be one of the all-time worst business decisions in the history of business decisions. And it's not going to happen. Period. Also, if we're talking about markets, why hasn't Green Bay moved? I'm not saying it is going to happen, or even likely, but I do think it could. The Bills have 8 regular season games, a couple preseason, and (please god someday) a playoff game or two a year. Hardly make or break for the Buffalo economy as a whole. As someone said, Pegulas passion is hockey, specifically the Sabres. If push came to shove and he had to foot the bill for a new stadium or move the team I could see him selling the Bills and getting back to what he loves, the Sabres. Not one of the "all-time worst business decisions in the history of business decisions" at all. In fact, it would probably give him a few thousand less headaches a year and maybe make him a buck or two if the new owners really wanted the team. Edited March 28, 2017 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Alright. :-) Don't forget that NYC has borough taxes as well. Love visiting NYC, but would never want to live there. Way, way too much city for my (simple) tastes. me too. i love city life, but the convenience of living in the suburbs is just too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I'm not saying it is going to happen, or even likely, but I do think it could. The Bills have 8 regular season games, a couple preseason, and (please god someday) a playoff game or two a year. Hardly make or break for the Buffalo economy as a whole. As someone said, Pegulas passion is hockey, specifically the Sabres. If push came to shove and he had to foot the bill for a new stadium or move the team I could see him selling the Bills and getting back to what he loves, the Sabres. Not one of the "all-time worst business decisions in the history of business decisions" at all. In fact, it would probably give him a few thousand less headaches a year and maybe make him a buck or two if the new owners really wanted the team. As long as he's married to Kim, the Bills aren't going anywhere. She's the local girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorBuf Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Should we really care what you think? I've been following this story for 50 plus years and I think you are going to move before the Bills do. I know as much about that as you know about the Bills moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The Bills have been rumored to move since the late '60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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