Please explain the touchdown pass catching rules

[GunnerBill]

First of all, Little's play should totally be a catch.

 

However, the stupid rule as I understand it is that in order for the receiver to get credit for a catch, he needs to maintain control all the way to the ground or make a football move after getting possession. He can get the ball, get 4 steps in bounds and then 4 more out of bounds like Little did and still not have a catch if he loses it going to the ground.

 

I think if he got two feet down and then made a move, like punching the DB in the face, it would have been a catch if he lost it afterwards.

 

Similarly, if he never went to ground and the the DB knocked it out after he was out of bounds but standing up, then I think it would have been ruled a catch.

Agree with all of this. That is my understanding of the rule as well as wrong as it is.

[What a Tuel]

Agree with all of this. That is my understanding of the rule as well as wrong as it is.

 

I thought a "move" was taking steps as well? I have seen catches in the field be ruled completions because the WR took several steps. What happens after that is normally a fumble. The officials don't take steps into consideration because it's the endzone? If so, they are a bunch of idiots.

Edited August 21, 2016 by What a Tuel

[freeagentqb]

I think the call was complicated because both players were grabbing the ball which somehow nullified the 3 steps taken in the end zone. Then he gets possession out of bounds, takes 2 more steps, falls and loses the ball.

 

Unbelievable, should have been ruled a catch.

 

Simultaneous possession goes to the receiver so the 3 steps in the end zone = touchdown. Falling down 2 steps out of bounds is irrelevant.

 

This was a bad call, period.

[vincec]

 

I thought a "move" was taking steps as well? I have seen catches in the field be ruled completions because the WR took several steps. What happens after that is normally a fumble. The officials don't take steps into consideration because it's the endzone? If so, they are a bunch of idiots.

I think they would say that if you take steps in an effort to run and gain more yards then it's a football move. If you are taking steps while trying to maintain control on the way to the ground then it's not a football move.

[26CornerBlitz]

@YardsPerPass

The refs called the rule right. But why can you have 4 steps in the EZ & not have it be a catch? Awful rule

 

[vincec]

The part that really bakes my noodle, is that "the ground can't cause a fumble" because the player is down as soon as the ball touches the ground ... unless he is a receiver... in which case he is NOT down because the ground CAN cause an incompletion.

[The Wiz]

@YardsPerPass

 

The refs called the rule right. But why can you have 4 steps in the EZ & not have it be a catch? Awful rule

 

thanks for the gif. Based on the description I would have said incomplete but that makes me think it was a bad call. Putting 4 steps down in the ez and having to drag a defender but still had the ball in his hands... That's a catch no matter how the video ended.

[machine gun kelly]

As always 26CB, thanks as you are always Johnny on the spot with the video. This absolutely looked like a catch to me. It doesn't matter the DB is trying to rip the ball out. He had it tucked away rom the beginnings no to the end of the end zone.

 

I'm no normally in the debates over catches, but after seeing the slow motion, it was a bad call. At least it was preseason.

[3rdand12]

Yes, but most of the time the DB had his hand on the ball also, trying to pry it away. The ball was moving down Little's chest while he was getting two feet down although he always had "possession" of it. When they hit the ground OB the ball came loose. Fwiw I thought it was a catch.

This is what i saw except , the defender was pulling the ball down and i assume that mean Little had not secured it.

Oy !

@YardsPerPass

The refs called the rule right. But why can you have 4 steps in the EZ & not have it be a catch? Awful rule

 

Thats a great angle !

As always 26CB, thanks as you are always Johnny on the spot with the video. This absolutely looked like a catch to me. It doesn't matter the DB is trying to rip the ball out. He had it tucked away rom the beginnings no to the end of the end zone.

 

I'm no normally in the debates over catches, but after seeing the slow motion, it was a bad call. At least it was preseason.

Thing is he falls on his back outside of the endzone and loses the ball.

Thats part of the debate. I am hardly able to defend either way.

When i first saw the play i called touchdown. Great defensive effort. But from that angle I want to give him the TD.

I sure can admit when i "might" be wrong : )

[The Wiz]

This is what i saw except , the defender was pulling the ball down and i assume that mean Little had not secured it.

Oy !

 

Thats a great angle !

 

Thing is he falls on his back outside of the endzone and loses the ball.

Thats part of the debate. I am hardly able to defend either way.

When i first saw the play i called touchdown. Great defensive effort. But from that angle I want to give him the TD.

I sure can admit when i "might" be wrong : )

That's the problem with the rule. If a rb breaks the plane and fumbled it's still a td even though he lost possession. If he catches it on the 1 and crosses they probably would call it good. Since he caught it in the ez the rules just go into gray.

[reddogblitz]

The more I read the more I want to see this play. From what I gather, he caught the ball, took a few steps into the ez, was tackled oob and then lost the ball?

Didn't see the game so looking for clarity.

That's what I saw.

[simpleman]

I have some issues of retention, but my thinking is, this year the Officials are more likely to call it incomplete when questionable. And less likely to overturn the call. Going to be on the Receiver to "prove " his possession and control ".

I may or may not agree with whether Little made the catch, because at first blush i called touchdown !!!

But i can see how it could be called the other way and then under review as all TD plays are now.

 

I need to see it again

If you recall the changes were discussed, does that mean this same policy is suppose to apply to the whole field now, regular field sidelines as well as the end-zone? Except all end-zones are already automatically reviewed, while a coach challenge would be needed on the sidelines? This is not an end-zone only rules change?

[moshermw]

This is the rule that applies to that play, IMO:

 

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control.Sep 25, 2012

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just glad it was preseason and the Bills won anyway...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You are asking a question that can not be answered. A committee of top minds has been formed to review every catch and attempt to elucidate the NFL's rules. The prospects of success are considered to be 32.5% owing to the difficulty of the task at hand.

 

Ridiculous, isn't it?

[JESSEFEFFER]

I think that there is an obvious omission to the rule. To allow an action by the defender after normal end-of-play events (knee down, oob, etc.) to be the cause of loss of possession and an incompletion is an invitation to a botched ruling. Much the same with Goodwin's noncatch vs, Chiefs from his rookie season.

Edited August 22, 2016 by JESSEFEFFER

[thebandit27]

2016 NFL Rulebook: Catch Rule

ARTICLE 3. COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

© maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

Note: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.

If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.

If the player goes to the ground before establishing as a runner -- i.e., in cases ofCalvin Johnson in 2010 or Dez Bryant in the 2014 playoffs -- here is what the rule now says: "[He] must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

Edited August 22, 2016 by thebandit27

[PromoTheRobot]

The more I read the more I want to see this play. From what I gather, he caught the ball, took a few steps into the ez, was tackled oob and then lost the ball?

 

Didn't see the game so looking for clarity.

You left out one thing: the defender had his hand on the ball the whole time. So Little caught the ball, took three steps in bounds, then landed on his butt out of bounds before the ball was pried loose by the defender whose hand was on the ball the entire time like a crowbar.

 

Which calls into play another rule: tie goes to the receiver. But in this case the official allowed the play to continue until the defender pried the ball away, even though by every measure Little completed the act of receiving.

Edited August 22, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Kelly the Dog]

2016 NFL Rulebook: Catch Rule

ARTICLE 3. COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS. A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

© maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

Note: If a player has control of the ball, a slight movement of the ball will not be considered a loss of possession. He must lose control of the ball in order to rule that there has been a loss of possession.

If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any part of his body to the ground, it is not a catch.

 

If the player goes to the ground before establishing as a runner -- i.e., in cases of[/size]Calvin Johnson in 2010 or [/size]Dez Bryant in the 2014 playoffs -- here is what the rule now says: "[He] must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."[/size]

I know you are just pointing out the language, but that rule makes no sense on a pass that is out of the back of the endzone when that hitting the ground is completely out of bounds.

[3rdand12]

You are asking a question that can not be answered. A committee of top minds has been formed to review every catch and attempt to elucidate the NFL's rules. The prospects of success are considered to be 32.5% owing to the difficulty of the task at hand.

 

Ridiculous, isn't it?

You left out one thing: the defender had his hand on the ball the whole time. So Little caught the ball, took three steps in bounds, then landed on his butt out of bounds before the ball was pried loose by the defender whose hand was on the ball the entire time like a crowbar.

 

Which calls into play another rule: tie goes to the receiver. But in this case the official allowed the play to continue until the defender pried the ball away, even though by every measure Little completed the act of receiving.

I might now think , this play was fitting for the "tie" rule. Little had a firm grip on the ball. This year is going to have us throwing things again

[Solomon Grundy]

RULE NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED, PERIOD!!