DrDawkinstein Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 ha - it just bugs me when people use "well no one else did it" as the counter argument when theres a relatively sound argument for something. im actually hoping someone will jump in with a great retort. but the cost of the 90th guy a week before cuts just isnt doing it. "the message sent" seems to not be where hes hanging his hat now that the workout is happening (because the message is the same). How do you feel about the rumors that both KW and MD were offered the rehab option to possibly reduce suspension, and Dareus took it while Karlos said no, and that was a factor into his being cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Weo.....so what would you suggest here? I would suggest not claiming the Bills are sending a "no-nonsense message" with the firing of Karlos. Every player knows the message is the exact opposite. Show up overweight and out of shape with two recent arrests and a suspension looming? Two years later suspended again now for 4 games? No problem for tor the guy with the big money invested. Everyone else, not so much. Look, I understand the business decision here--what can you do? But the Bills and a lot of posters here can spare us all the sanctimony suggesting this whole rehab thing is much more than just that--business. They should just say as much in a press conference: Marcel is too expensive to cut and Karlos wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 How do you feel about the rumors that both KW and MD were offered the rehab option to possibly reduce suspension, and Dareus took it while Karlos said no, and that was a factor into his being cut? mixed bag. i speculated that it might have been related to KW doing that. i can wrap my head around there being behind the scenes reasons to say screw it and make a move though. i dont think that changes my wondering about the waiver claim (especially if working him out) though. I would suggest not claiming the Bills are sending a "no-nonsense message" with the firing of Karlos. Every player knows the message is the exact opposite. Show up overweight and out of shape with two recent arrests and a suspension looming? Two years later suspended again now for 4 games? No problem for tor the guy with the big money invested. Everyone else, not so much. Look, I understand the business decision here--what can you do? But the Bills and a lot of posters here can spare us all the sanctimony suggesting this whole rehab thing is much more than just that--business. They should just say as much in a press conference: Marcel is too expensive to cut and Karlos wasn't. yea - once you get into the "sending a message" stuff in these discussions, a lot of times it ends up being more soap opera/reality TV than actual player development.... thats part of why i was pressing 26 on the message point. its so inconsistently applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 mixed bag. i speculated that it might have been related to KW doing that. i can wrap my head around there being behind the scenes reasons to say screw it and make a move though. i dont think that changes my wondering about the waiver claim (especially if working him out) though. yea - once you get into the "sending a message" stuff in these discussions, a lot of times it ends up being more soap opera/reality TV than actual player development.... thats part of why i was pressing 26 on the message point. its so inconsistently applied. People here were diagnosing Dareus with clinical depression and suggesting he might possibly be suicidal. One called me a "douchebag" for suggesting this was not the case!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'm glad they cut him. Sends a no-nonsense message to all the players. Hit the road, Jack. We don't need your kind around here. Time was when we'd all wring our hands and fawn over an athlete with decent talent and a messed-up head. No more. It's a New Era baby! Not sure if you're being sexist, racist, or weightiest so #FatBlackGuysMatter!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I would suggest not claiming the Bills are sending a "no-nonsense message" with the firing of Karlos. Every player knows the message is the exact opposite. Show up overweight and out of shape with two recent arrests and a suspension looming? Two years later suspended again now for 4 games? No problem for tor the guy with the big money invested. Everyone else, not so much. Look, I understand the business decision here--what can you do? But the Bills and a lot of posters here can spare us all the sanctimony suggesting this whole rehab thing is much more than just that--business. They should just say as much in a press conference: Marcel is too expensive to cut and Karlos wasn't. So if Marcell didn't have a big money deal, you'd suggest cutting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 People here were diagnosing Dareus with clinical depression and suggesting he might possibly be suicidal. One called me a "douchebag" for suggesting this was not the case!! I'm sure you've been called that for much more than simply this one instance of insensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 How do you feel about the rumors that both KW and MD were offered the rehab option to possibly reduce suspension, and Dareus took it while Karlos said no, and that was a factor into his being cut? I'd feel better if the players in question initiated a rehab stint in order to get better control of their lives, instead of just going because they can possibly come back sooner($$$). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I would suggest not claiming the Bills are sending a "no-nonsense message" with the firing of Karlos. Every player knows the message is the exact opposite. Show up overweight and out of shape with two recent arrests and a suspension looming? Two years later suspended again now for 4 games? No problem for tor the guy with the big money invested. Everyone else, not so much. Look, I understand the business decision here--what can you do? But the Bills and a lot of posters here can spare us all the sanctimony suggesting this whole rehab thing is much more than just that--business. They should just say as much in a press conference: Marcel is too expensive to cut and Karlos wasn't. I said it was my opinon that is what they might be doing.....I have no way of knowing what message it will or will not send. My question to you is how would you handle it....you know instead of bitching how it was handled actually give what you would have done in this situation. Your still not stating that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 People here were diagnosing Dareus with clinical depression and suggesting he might possibly be suicidal. One called me a "douchebag" for suggesting this was not the case!! People (myself included because in my job field I triage clinical depression in college students and have had to deal with mental health situations in my duties) can verify that Marcel's behavior MIGHT be caused by clinical depression......might. It displays warning signs of it. I am not gonna call you a douchebag over it.....because I might be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 I am not gonna call you a douchebag over it.....because I might be incorrect. Oh, you're correct, he's a douchebag. And if not, surely a douche nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Oh, you're correct, he's a douchebag. And if not, surely a douche nozzle. Well, now you've done it. Here I am All Confused. Is being a douchbag worse or better than being a douche nozzle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Well, now you've done it. Here I am All Confused. Is being a douchbag worse or better than being a douche nozzle? Tough to say. Taken literally, I imagine it would be worse to actually be a douche bag. That said, known around town as a douche nozzle, at least to me, sounds a tad worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Tough to say. Taken literally, I imagine it would be worse to actually be a douche bag. That said, known around town as a douche nozzle, at least to me, sounds a tad worse. Spoken like a real douche canoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Well the nozzle, um...nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Sorry if I wasn't clear -- I was definitely commenting on Shady's remarks, not your retelling of them. I'm sure Karlos' lack of commitment and work ethic was evident in more places than just his waistline and I'm sure that was obvious to his teammates. I'm sure guys cover for each other, even after they are cut and that's the reason for Shady's 'I don't know' comments. Which one would think would pretty much put an end to the "When will the FO be held accountable" thread, but nope! We need a thread for Sully and Bucky to read to steal ideas from! Maybe he can actually start losing weight instead of gaining it? The fact that he showed up in the offseason.......FOURTY POUNDS.....overweight....then showed up at training camp even fatter? Screams that this guy does not get it. It was not just the weight - it was muscle mass, conditioning, following instructions, etc. He could take the weight off but not necessarily improve other items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Who is to say the team gave up on Karlos, when it can just as easily be interpreted that (between missing workouts, showing up fat, and failing drug tests) it was actually Karlos that gave up on the team? FO has nothing to retract. They were committed to Karlos as long as Karlos was committed to them. That's sort of my point....why say anything? Just stick with he didn't live up to his potential in the off season and we are happy with our roster behind McCoy. But they constantly insert foot to mouth and I really don't fault Rex, he's always been a bafoon. Whaley just needs to worry about the personnel and cap functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That's sort of my point....why say anything? Just stick with he didn't live up to his potential in the off season and we are happy with our roster behind McCoy. But they constantly insert foot to mouth and I really don't fault Rex, he's always been a bafoon. Whaley just needs to worry about the personnel and cap functions. Idk I kind of think they did Karlos a favor all year and even in releasing him. Karlos Williams probably would've went undrafted if it weren't for the Bills due to his offseason issues in college. I don't think they really said anything that they shouldn't have. He hurt the team and he hurt himself and his family. They told the truth, truth hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Geezus, this MD vs KW handling isn't rocket science, and its not because of the "big money" deal either. 1. MD is game ready to play, Elite at his position, and a corner stone of this franchise. He has inherently MORE value than a 5th round RB who had fallen to 5th on the depth chart and at his best would be 2nd string behind McCoy until McCoy falls off or is off the team. He also is beloved in the locker room, but the staff, and FO outside of his struggles. Furthermore, he went to rehab to put his best foot forward of both getting on track and staying on track. And rumors are it could lead to a reduced suspension by him agreeing to go, which further illustrates him putting the team first. 2. KW came in fat, beyond fat, and his play had fallen tremendously because of that...further compounded it with a stupid decision. Young players trying to make a roster usually DONT get more than 1 chance. Karlos has THREE strikes against him for a guy fighting for a roster spot and position at one of our deepest positions on the team. Came to camp very fat. Got suspended 4 games. Was underperforming in camp. Lets not forget, they found out he was super fat a LONG time ago...for him to still be so fat and out of shape indicates either an inconsistent or lack of commitment to getting ready for the season. Maybe the knowledge he can't play until week 5 made him think it wasn't as urgent as it should have been. 3. All of that above is more than enough to distinguish the difference, far beyond just contract size. But as touched on above, if the talk is true that KW and MD both were offered rehab to potentially reduce the suspension, then KW refusing it is also a me first decision. Rather than do what was asked of him to help get him on the field sooner to help the team, he chose (again, assuming this talk is true) to decline that option for his own personal image or reasons. And that could have been the final straw for the FO. Its not breaking news that elite players or top prospects get a longer leash. Which is why you don't really see first round draft picks get cut their rookie year while mid round and lower get cut all the time if they struggle their first year. Teams don't just randomly give up on 2nd year players who made the impact he did his rookie year. 31 other teams don't decline to pickup 2nd year players cheap on waivers that had that kind of rookie impact either. Yet all of that happened, why, because guys like him don't get many chances and plenty of talented players have washed out of the league because they couldn't get their lives together off the field. Edited August 24, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Man they love players with drug problems @salsports Source close to situation tells me Steelers continue to show interest in former Bills RB Karlos Williams. His brother Vince plays for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts