JohnC Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I agree for the most part with this last statement, as long as there is a good QB prospect worth taking at 10. Question I ask: Where do you draw the line, if at all? Thank you for your thoughtful responses. All your responses were concisely explained. We are very much in agreement. With respect to drawing the line on qbs prospect you have to make the calculation that the person you are selecting has the potential to be a franchise qb. If there is a grouping of qbs that you believe are capable of developing into good pro qbs then a good strategy to take is to hedge your bets and trade down and get an extra pick or so. The organization did it with EJ but the problem still revolved around the poor evaluation of him. Don't misunderstand my position. I'm not suggesting that the Bills should act out of desperation and take the plunge on a qb for the sake of taking the plunge. Isn't it about time that this dour organization used some creativity and flexibility when evaluating the position? As you and others have pointed out Russell Wilson was rated high in all the traits required to be a franchise qb other than height. A third round pick on him would have been a good calculated risk. The problem was that Country Buddy believed in bigger players over smaller players. His rating scale over emphasized one's physical profile over actual football ability. The Kirk Cousins bypass is another illustration of how this front office operates. Hesitation is not an asset in the pursuit of a qb. This is the one position where judiciously over-drafting by one round makes sense. The EJ example was a boondoggle from a variety of fronts. My complaint is that for this qb deficit franchise to be consistently hesitant as reflected in the Wilson and Cousins's draft year made no sense to me. "What ifs" are a losers lament. Although it is just wishful thinking if the Bills would have taken the opportunity to draft Carr, Wilson or Cousins etc our outlook on this franchise would have a much different tinge to it. We need to stop doing what we usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 @albertbreer Here's another one -- Due to his prior criminal record, Ole Miss WR Demore'ea Stringfellow wasn't invited to the combine in Indy. lol he was here working out with Chad in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The sack of Ryan and fumble recovery was arguably the play that changed the game in New England's favor. New England has always had productive edge rushers under belichik. Pittsburgh has had game changing edge rushers for as long as I can remember...Kevin Greene, joey porter, James Harrison. Green Bay has Clay Matthews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Thank you for your thoughtful responses. All your responses were concisely explained. We are very much in agreement. With respect to drawing the line on qbs prospect you have to make the calculation that the person you are selecting has the potential to be a franchise qb. If there is a grouping of qbs that you believe are capable of developing into good pro qbs then a good strategy to take is to hedge your bets and trade down and get an extra pick or so. The organization did it with EJ but the problem still revolved around the poor evaluation of him. Don't misunderstand my position. I'm not suggesting that the Bills should act out of desperation and take the plunge on a qb for the sake of taking the plunge. Isn't it about time that this dour organization used some creativity and flexibility when evaluating the position? As you and others have pointed out Russell Wilson was rated high in all the traits required to be a franchise qb other than height. A third round pick on him would have been a good calculated risk. The problem was that Country Buddy believed in bigger players over smaller players. His rating scale over emphasized one's physical profile over actual football ability. The Kirk Cousins bypass is another illustration of how this front office operates. Hesitation is not an asset in the pursuit of a qb. This is the one position where judiciously over-drafting by one round makes sense. The EJ example was a boondoggle from a variety of fronts. My complaint is that for this qb deficit franchise to be consistently hesitant as reflected in the Wilson and Cousins's draft year made no sense to me. "What ifs" are a losers lament. Although it is just wishful thinking if the Bills would have taken the opportunity to draft Carr, Wilson or Cousins etc our outlook on this franchise would have a much different tinge to it. We need to stop doing what we usually do. John, in 2014, the Bills signed a defensive back named Ross Cockrell with the 9th pick in round 4. With the 13th pick of round 5, they took Cyrill Richardson. The Bengals, with the 24th pick in round 5, drafted AJ McCarron. The Bengals already had Dalton at QB. The Bills had EJ Manuel. Whaley really needs to go, wouldn't you say? Edited February 10, 2017 by Bill from NYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 lol he was here working out with Chad in the summerwhat is on his record? Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Super-early 2017 NFL Mock Draft: Pass rushers, RBs and Bama rule @si_nfl 2017 NFL Mock Draft: @ChrisBurke_SI introduces you to next year’s top prospects http://on.si.com/1rOixSA @walterfootball 2017 NFL Mock Draft - http://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php I like TT & would hope we keep him. However, if they decide to go in a different direction - a few crazy thoughts. Would the Browns or another QB needy team be interested in a draft day trade AFTER we pick up his option ? Is it unrealistic that the Browns, Jets, Sf etc might take TT & swap 1st rounders? What if, prior to the draft, we put the word out that TT is available ? The QB needy teams would get TT & the 10th pick in exchange for their pick. We get a top 5 pick. Assuming that this was doable, we could then trade that pick for much needed picks somewhere toward the later 1st round plus additional picks. Or, just use the top 5 pick if we choose that route. Is that scenario doable ? Is it unrealistic ? Btw, if either the Bills or the other team had to throw in another mid round pick, would that then make this trade feasible ? Just some random thoughts while I'm debating whether to get Center Ice here in FL. I posted this in another thread but this thread is the more appropriate forum. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I like TT & would hope we keep him. However, if they decide to go in a different direction - a few crazy thoughts. Would the Browns or another QB needy team be interested in a draft day trade AFTER we pick up his option ? Is it unrealistic that the Browns, Jets, Sf etc might take TT & swap 1st rounders? What if, prior to the draft, we put the word out that TT is available ? The QB needy teams would get TT & the 10th pick in exchange for their pick. We get a top 5 pick. Assuming that this was doable, we could then trade that pick for much needed picks somewhere toward the later 1st round plus additional picks. Or, just use the top 5 pick if we choose that route. Is that scenario doable ? Is it unrealistic ? Btw, if either the Bills or the other team had to throw in another mid round pick, would that then make this trade feasible ? Just some random thoughts while I'm debating whether to get Center Ice here in FL. I posted this in another thread but this thread is the more appropriate forum. Sorry about that. Bills cap hit would be too high to trade him after 3/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I like TT & would hope we keep him. However, if they decide to go in a different direction - a few crazy thoughts. Would the Browns or another QB needy team be interested in a draft day trade AFTER we pick up his option ? Is it unrealistic that the Browns, Jets, Sf etc might take TT & swap 1st rounders? What if, prior to the draft, we put the word out that TT is available ? The QB needy teams would get TT & the 10th pick in exchange for their pick. We get a top 5 pick. Assuming that this was doable, we could then trade that pick for much needed picks somewhere toward the later 1st round plus additional picks. Or, just use the top 5 pick if we choose that route. Is that scenario doable ? Is it unrealistic ? Btw, if either the Bills or the other team had to throw in another mid round pick, would that then make this trade feasible ? Just some random thoughts while I'm debating whether to get Center Ice here in FL. I posted this in another thread but this thread is the more appropriate forum. Sorry about that. If we pick up Tyrod's option and trade him on draft day we would still be stuck with $18M+ dead money in '17 for a player that would be playing elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Bills cap hit would be too high to trade him after 3/11 Yea you would be left eating all the remaining bonus money in this year's cap. That isn't feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 John, in 2014, the Bills signed a defensive back named Ross Cockrell with the 9th pick in round 4. In round 5, With the 13th pick of round 5, they took Cyrill Richardson. The Bengals, with the 24th pick in round 5, drafted AJ McCarron. The Bengals already had Dalton at QB. The Bills had EJ Manuel. Whaley really needs to go, wouldn't you say? Bill, I'm not there yet. It is unfair to point out particular selections and then make a declaration that he failed in his job. In general I would say his drafting and even his draft strategy have been average to mediocre. The area I think he does reasonably well is find mid-range good value free agents. From an evaluation standpoint it is obviously easier to evaluate a player who is already playing in the pros than a prospect from the college ranks. Another aspect of Whaley that I find disappointing is that he has a tendency to over rate his roster. For the past couple of years he has publicly stated that he felt that his team was a playoff team. He can make the claim that bad coaching diminished his roster but the reality is that this team isn't as good as he thinks it is. In my opinion next year's team is not a playoff team. The hiring of Rex set this franchise back by a year or two. side note: I believe that Whaley's preferred qb on this roster is Cardale Jones. It seems to me that he is not enamored with TT and wouldn't mind cutting the cord with him. But he may be boxed in because his options are limited. Again, he has a tendency to over rate his own players. I don't see the Bills using either of their top two picks on a qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 @SI_PeterKing The @AlbertBreer column says Trubisky is top QB, OL weak, draft overall strong. Plus regular cornucopia. https://t.co/bFlgJjEafA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Bill, I'm not there yet. It is unfair to point out particular selections and then make a declaration that he failed in his job. In general I would say his drafting and even his draft strategy have been average to mediocre. The area I think he does reasonably well is find mid-range good value free agents. From an evaluation standpoint it is obviously easier to evaluate a player who is already playing in the pros than a prospect from the college ranks. Another aspect of Whaley that I find disappointing is that he has a tendency to over rate his roster. For the past couple of years he has publicly stated that he felt that his team was a playoff team. He can make the claim that bad coaching diminished his roster but the reality is that this team isn't as good as he thinks it is. In my opinion next year's team is not a playoff team. The hiring of Rex set this franchise back by a year or two. side note: I believe that Whaley's preferred qb on this roster is Cardale Jones. It seems to me that he is not enamored with TT and wouldn't mind cutting the cord with him. But he may be boxed in because his options are limited. Again, he has a tendency to over rate his own players. I don't see the Bills using either of their top two picks on a qb. I think the last two rosters were absolutely playoff calibre. Just dreadfully coached by a moron. In fact I can make a case that the Bills should have made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I think the last two rosters were absolutely playoff calibre. Just dreadfully coached by a moron. In fact I can make a case that the Bills should have made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years. I go back and forth on how good this roster is. My take is that it is a fringe playoff team at best. There certainly are holes in the roster but because of the cap system all teams have incomplete rosters. Smartly coached teams not only know how to maximize their assets but also know how to minimize their liabilities. An interesting bar room debate can be made over whether if Marrone would have stayed and he had TT as a qb would the Bills have been a playoff team at least a couple of times? Under Marrone I saw progress from his first to second year. It is frustrating yet futile to assess the damage that Rex did in handling the roster delivered to him. What was even more regrettable was that after his first year the front office wasted that year trying to accommodate his needs. Now the organization is swinging back to a more updated defensive scheme which will require further player shuffling. I'm reluctant to bring up the qb issue responding to your post because that issue seems to permeate every discussion. But it is well known that the best equalizer for a flawed roster is to have a caliber of qb that can overcome the liabilities of the roster. In my estimation TT is a holding pattern caliber of qb who is not going to mask the team's vulnerabilities. There will be intervals where he will raise your expectation of what he is capable of but when all is said and done he is average at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 what is on his record? Anyone know? disorderly conduct and assault. Punched a Seahawks fan while at UW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 disorderly conduct and assault. Punched a Seahawks fan while at UW that's a crime? seems like that's a public service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 @SI_PeterKing The @AlbertBreer column says Trubisky is top QB, OL weak, draft overall strong. Plus regular cornucopia. https://t.co/bFlgJjEafA This draft is loaded compared to last year. Bills should get as many picks as they can and stock up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Advanced warning - in 11 months time, I will start a draft process love affair with Northwestern safety Godwin Igwebuike. You have been warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 John, in 2014, the Bills signed a defensive back named Ross Cockrell with the 9th pick in round 4. With the 13th pick of round 5, they took Cyrill Richardson. The Bengals, with the 24th pick in round 5, drafted AJ McCarron. The Bengals already had Dalton at QB. The Bills had EJ Manuel. Whaley really needs to go, wouldn't you say? I'd say Ross Cockrell getting released then immediately becoming one of the Steelers top DBs might be a more damning move then missing on McCarron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I'd say Ross Cockrell getting released then immediately becoming one of the Steelers top DBs might be a more damning move then missing on McCarron. Top Steelers DB LOL. Also they play primarily in zone and Cockrell may have benefited from that in comparison to Rex's scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Advanced warning - in 11 months time, I will start a draft process love affair with Northwestern safety Godwin Igwebuike. You have been warned. he is from Columbus, same HS as Pat Elflein and Jake Butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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