Deactivate Mario??

[stevewin]

 

We're substituting because we don't have 3 down linebackers. Maybe 1. And we have no real safeties with coverage skills. Add those 2 and we don't need to substitute all the time and can play hurry up with anyone.

 

http://thecomeback.com/blog/nfl/where-did-rex-ryan-go-wrong-in-his-first-season-in-buffalo.html

 

 

2. Rex’s blitz-crazy scheme is outdated and becoming obsolete. When quarterbacks were (still) routinely taking five- and-seven-step drops as Rex came up in the NFL coaching ranks in the early- to-mid-2000s, sending the house in an assortment of ways was brilliant. With quarterbacks focusing on their detailed footwork on deep drops, the variety of rushers destroyed timing of most passing games and consistently forced quarterbacks to get rid of the football before they wanted to. Today, the NFL is almost exactly college football as we witnessed it from about 2008 – 2012.

Think about it. Things are wide open.

The majority of NFL offenses are shotgun-based, while a few teams run “pro-style” — which really just means “old” — attacks. Uptempo offenses are everywhere. Yards-after-the-catch is emphasized. And, probably most importantly, quarterbacks are coached to get rid of the football fast, fast, fast. Get it to the quick slot guy in space. Dump it to the speedy air back with the linebacker in coverage. Throw the slant to Odell Beckham.

As Bills fans have watched often in 2015, blitzing comes with increased risk, and it typically leaves back-seven players in man-to-man coverage with a lot of turf around them. Or, it leaves one side of the field completely “uncovered.” Neither of those are good things for a defense given the way offenses are run today and how quarterbacks are told to play the position. If they were still mostly taking deep drops on long-developing routes, Rex and exotic blitz-aficionados in NFL coaching positions would still be universally lauded as aggressive schemers who dictate to their opponent.

But a plethora of twists, stunts, zone drops and delayed corner blitzes simply don’t have the time to get home anymore. I’m not insinuating NFL quarterbacks have “solved” the blitz once and for all, but the goals of their offensive systems simply make it significantly easier for them to “beat” the blitz… because much more often than not, they plan to throw a quick pass whether a defense throws a three-man rush or the kitchen sink at them.

Schwartz knew enough to make use of elite DLineman that can generate pressure by just letting them loose

[boyst]

The fallacy of Rex having a proven system is not true. Ryan had two defenses that ranked in the top 19 over his 6 year career in New Jersey. That was immediately after Mangini left. That was based on pts, not yards. Yards don't mean much, otherwise his defenses have done well at stopping yards, just not points.

 

That's because he's overrated, overhyped and not good.

 

Like I said, I'm not a fan of his scheme this season, but it's in the past now. What gives me a little bit of hope is that the evidence is pretty clear from a 10-year span that Rex's defense works well provided he has the corners. The Bills have the corners (and the Jets didn't last year). This year was an anomaly given his past success, so hopefully we'll obtain the right pieces that can strengthen the unit so that it's top-10 again.

The 10 year span of it working is really not working, though.

 

Arguments made that Rex never had an offense or developed a QB. That he could never get all the pieces together. Part of me wonders if that is because they spent so much money on defense and so much energy getting parts for the defense.

[dave mcbride]

The fallacy of Rex having a proven system is not true. Ryan had two defenses that ranked in the top 19 over his 6 year career in New Jersey. That was immediately after Mangini left. That was based on pts, not yards. Yards don't mean much, otherwise his defenses have done well at stopping yards, just not points.

 

That's because he's overrated, overhyped and not good.

 

The 10 year span of it working is really not working, though.

 

Arguments made that Rex never had an offense or developed a QB. That he could never get all the pieces together. Part of me wonders if that is because they spent so much money on defense and so much energy getting parts for the defense.

Points allowed is very deceiving and not especially indicative. If you have an offense that is prone to pick sixes, those points allowed stats tend to get skewed pretty darn quick. Let's look at Rex's career via a MUCH more reliable and sophisticated metric: Football Outsiders' Defensive DVOA rankings ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2005). He was DC of the Ravens from 2005-2008, so we have a very neat 10-year window to look at. In those ten years, he had 4 top-2 rankings, 7 top-6 rankings, and 9 top-12 rankings. Regardless of this year's failure, how is that not freaking great??

 

2005 - 6th

2006 - 1st

2007 - 5th

2008 - 2nd

2009 - 1st

2010 - 5th

2011 - 2nd

2012 - 9th

2013 - 12th

2014 - 21st

 

PS: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride

[machine gun kelly]

The Hoody*** and some others would have cut him weeks ago. That is what well run ( although cheating) franchises do.

if anyone watched him today, he barely went through the motions except a play or two. jarius Wynn

If healthy can do that for a fraction of what Mario makes.

 

 

 

 

 

F6

 

IMO Rex has been saying in his own unique way. I am the boss, do what I want. The 100 million dollar man says FU.

 

You made the most important point. If Wynn can provide a better rush and follow assignments, then as the OP stated, bench him. It would be great to stand on high ground and do it anyway, but Rex wants badly to win, and regardless of what he says, he knows he's under heat to finish well for the Pegulas. If Mario in any way helps a win more than Wynn or anyone else, he'll play him.

 

I hate what Rex did to this defense, but there is a point of follow your coach and stop complaining.

[T master]

Would go a long way in showing the team accountability. If u don't want to cover ur rush lanes, and don't feel like contributing in any way other than complaining to the media, sit in the press box. I don't want the guy in my locker room .

 

 

Rather than that to prove his point he could go on the field the last game of the year against the Jets & do what he does, be the animal that he is & rush every down despite the call & get 5+ sacks in the last game !

 

Then he could walk away & walk by Rex & Thurmon & say if you would have only let us do what we do best this season could have been different !!

 

That is the only way that Rex & company MIGHT look in the proverbial mirror & use the players he has to their strengths rather than try to fit a round peg in a square hole . Or he could fire Thurmon & when Pettine gets fired bring him back, because i think if something that drastic doesn't happen i don't see Mario returning ...

Edited December 28, 2015 by T master

[Mr. WEO]

And he signed a monster contract every year and teams (minus the Bucs) got better almost immediately.

 

I won't excuse his lack of effort. And as terrible of a job Rex did with this team this year, I don't want him fired after one year. But IMO, an elite defensive player like Mario was only a year ago is a lot more important to this franchise than Rex Ryan.

 

Nah, Mario can be replaced much more easily than a HC--at least with a competent one.

 

Points allowed is very deceiving and not especially indicative. If you have an offense that is prone to pick sixes, those points allowed stats tend to get skewed pretty darn quick. Let's look at Rex's career via a MUCH more reliable and sophisticated metric: Football Outsiders' Defensive DVOA rankings ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2005). He was DC of the Ravens from 2005-2008, so we have a very neat 10-year window to look at. In those ten years, he had 4 top-2 rankings, 7 top-6 rankings, and 9 top-12 rankings. Regardless of this year's failure, how is that not freaking great??

 

2005 - 6th

2006 - 1st

2007 - 5th

2008 - 2nd

2009 - 1st

2010 - 5th

2011 - 2nd

2012 - 9th

2013 - 12th

2014 - 21st

 

PS: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

 

 

I think that given the pick sixes likely represent very few TDs all year, points allowed is a straightforward metric of a defense.

 

Also, Rex has had outstanding D talent wherever he has gone, yet in Buffalo, his D performance is terrible....

[GG]

Also, Rex has had outstanding D talent wherever he has gone, yet in Buffalo, his D performance is terrible....

 

So he suddenly forgot how to coach a defense in six months?

[Mr. WEO]

 

So he suddenly forgot how to coach a defense in six months?

 

Not in 6 months, it started his last few year in NYJ. As an article posted here a few days ago nicely summed up, the game has passed Rex by. His "scheme" doesn't work. We saw the final flicker of his dying "genius" this season.

 

He's intellectually bankrupt.

[billykaykay]

We know why. Does that give until recently the highest paid DE reason to simply Quit because he doesn't like his new role? No matter how stupid it is. Would you rather see him go and try to compete or just stand there which he almost does? the Bills suck as it is. Playing with virtually 10 players isn't scoring Mario any new suitors. he is a quitter and in team sports they always are frowned on. especially as the highest paid player on the team.

Even when he was lined up and a play called to rush the passer. His best asset, he either did not or simply went through the motions. With a single blocker easily taking him out. The teams know this. he is worse than starting a scrub IMO. I doubt any team actually game plans for his " elite" skills. best of luck to him in the future. he is a pampered turd and brings zero to a team first game.

Amen. He either quit or he simply hit the "wall". Just watch the tape. He just stands there doing exactly nothing. he should be benched. A safety could play DE better.

[thebandit27]

For those discussing Brandon Spikes, he played 46.4% of the defensive snaps in 2014.

[dave mcbride]

 

Nah, Mario can be replaced much more easily than a HC--at least with a competent one.

 

 

 

I think that given the pick sixes likely represent very few TDs all year, points allowed is a straightforward metric of a defense.

 

Also, Rex has had outstanding D talent wherever he has gone, yet in Buffalo, his D performance is terrible....

That's not really a rejoinder, WEO. Turnovers creating short field position, terrible offensive production, bad special teams, etc. all factor in too. Look at FO's methods - they factor in a lot of stuff and in my view weigh the right things (strength of schedule, situational stats, etc.). No offense, but to me points allowed is a somewhat lazy metric.

 

Not in 6 months, it started his last few year in NYJ. As an article posted here a few days ago nicely summed up, the game has passed Rex by. His "scheme" doesn't work. We saw the final flicker of his dying "genius" this season.

 

He's intellectually bankrupt.

Seriously, read more about how Football Outsiders does what it does. The Jets had a bad defense last season, but FO captures that weakness too. But the real reason they were so poor was the terrible secondary play. They had no capable CBs after a series of early round busts at the position.

 

EDIT: I'll make it simple for you. The Jets were 8th in yards allowed and 9th in FO's DVOA in 2012, but they were 20th in points allowed. You may ask why. As it so happens, the offense was 30th in TOs given up, 30th in yards per drive, and 30th in points per drive. Plus the Jets' D had the 23rd best defensive drive start average in the league. Add it all up, and you see how crappy offense skews points allowed stats.

Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride

[rstencel]

I guess I'll take your guys' opinions because I don't want to watch that game again. If the coaches felt he was giving no effort, then they should bench him.

 

But the much bigger point is how Rex ruined one of the best defenses in the NFL.

My opinion on that is he took a team known for being able to rush just 4 linemen and consistently get pressure, and average linebacking core that wasn't asked to do too much, and changed their focus. The linebackers are not asked to rush cover and be the main disruptive force on the team, and the d-line is asked to create holes and keep the linebackers clean to be disruptive. Considering we don't exactly have elite linebackers he basically marginalized the strength of the defense and highlighted a weakness.

[boyst]

For those discussing Brandon Spikes, he played 46.4% of the defensive snaps in 2014.

Thanks! That seems higher than I remembered. I remember taking note early last year but that was when we were facing teams focused more on passing than running.

 

Points allowed is very deceiving and not especially indicative. If you have an offense that is prone to pick sixes, those points allowed stats tend to get skewed pretty darn quick. Let's look at Rex's career via a MUCH more reliable and sophisticated metric: Football Outsiders' Defensive DVOA rankings ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2005). He was DC of the Ravens from 2005-2008, so we have a very neat 10-year window to look at. In those ten years, he had 4 top-2 rankings, 7 top-6 rankings, and 9 top-12 rankings. Regardless of this year's failure, how is that not freaking great??

 

2005 - 6th

2006 - 1st

2007 - 5th

2008 - 2nd

2009 - 1st

2010 - 5th

2011 - 2nd

2012 - 9th

2013 - 12th

2014 - 21st

 

PS: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

Advanced stats hide eye test truth. Ryan and his scheme are resource heavy and will not allow a team to win in modern football where the offense has become the focal point of all things NFL. It is how the Patriots have won and many other teams have continued to win; as crazy as it sounds Seattle was a fluke with their extremely good DB unit masking up so much. Seattle is the defense Rex always wanted to have. Not this Bills defense.

 

 

Nah, Mario can be replaced much more easily than a HC--at least with a competent one.

 

 

 

I think that given the pick sixes likely represent very few TDs all year, points allowed is a straightforward metric of a defense.

 

Also, Rex has had outstanding D talent wherever he has gone, yet in Buffalo, his D performance is terrible....

I'd rather have Mario and a competent coach than no Mario and Rex.

 

Agreed with the second point.

 

That's not really a rejoinder, WEO. Turnovers creating short field position, terrible offensive production, bad special teams, etc. all factor in too. Look at FO's methods - they factor in a lot of stuff and in my view weigh the right things (strength of schedule, situational stats, etc.). No offense, but to me points allowed is a somewhat lazy metric.

Seriously, read more about how Football Outsiders does what it does. The Jets had a bad defense last season, but FO captures that weakness too. But the real reason they were so poor was the terrible secondary play. They had no capable CBs after a series of early round busts at the position.

 

EDIT: I'll make it simple for you. The Jets were 8th in yards allowed and 9th in FO's DVOA in 2012, but they were 20th in points allowed. You may ask why. As it so happens, the offense was 30th in TOs given up, 30th in yards per drive, and 30th in points per drive. Plus the Jets' D had the 23rd best defensive drive start average in the league. Add it all up, and you see how crappy offense skews points allowed stats.

Those advanced stats sit pretty when looking at just stats.

 

When looking at the eye test, Ryans defense in New Jersey simply was not that good. His D would make some big and great plays then turn around and give up big plays or commit errors. His teams could not cover an entire football field with the 34. Yet, his 34, like any, should cover more of the field in passing than a 43. His 34 passing defense was atrocious. His 34 passing relied on pressure up the middle from an MLB who has been vastly underrated and generated by excellent coverage from one of the best cb duos in history.

 

Many, including yourself, will argue he didn't have great personnel. That, again, is on Rex. His scheme relies too heavily on top end talent. The Jets invested a ton of draft talent in to defense.

 

2015

1st round - DE - Leonard Williams

3rd round - OLB Lorenzo Mauldin

2014

1st round - DB - Calvin Pryor

3rd round - DB - Dexter McDougle

2013

1st round - DB - Dee Milliner

1st round - DT - Sheldon Richardson

2012

1st round - DE - Quinton Coples

3rd round - DE - Demario Davis

2011

1st round - DT - Mo Wilkerson

3rd round - DT - Kendrick Ellis

2010

1st round - DB - Kyle Wilson

2009

3 picks made, QB, RB, G

2008

1st round - DE - Vernon Gohlston

4th round - DB - Dwight Lowery

So, in Ryan's time they used 1st round picks for 4 DB's and 4 on DL.

He had 2008 holdovers, among others, as well.

That's a hell of a lot of talent brought in to run a system where only 3 of them ended up as starers. Richardson should count as a .5 starter but he's not...so only 3 starters out of Ryan's involvement with 6 picks. The others drafted outside of the first have flamed out horribly.

Is that an indictment of the FO and talent scouting alone? Not in my opinion. Rex Ryan is a part of that issue, especially now that Bowles took all of that talent and has turned it in to something.

 

How much do you and everyone else want to invest in Rex Ryans defense to attempt success? Investing more than the Jets have is going to be difficult.

[Bill from NYC]

For those discussing Brandon Spikes, he played 46.4% of the defensive snaps in 2014.

Nice catch!

[boyst]

Jets Defensive Starters:

1st rounders:

Calvin Pace

Calvin Pryor

Leonard Williams

Muhammad Wilkerson

Derrelle Revis

Antonio Cromartie

1st round backups:

Dee Milliner

Sheldon Richardson

2nd round Starter:

David Harris

Marcus Gilchrest

--

6 players, over half of their current defense was drafted in the first round, with 2 backups being 1st rounders. Two more were drafted in the first two rounds.

That's boat loads of talent this year. I am going to look at other years defense when I get time.

[dave mcbride]

Thanks! That seems higher than I remembered. I remember taking note early last year but that was when we were facing teams focused more on passing than running.

 

 

Advanced stats hide eye test truth. Ryan and his scheme are resource heavy and will not allow a team to win in modern football where the offense has become the focal point of all things NFL. It is how the Patriots have won and many other teams have continued to win; as crazy as it sounds Seattle was a fluke with their extremely good DB unit masking up so much. Seattle is the defense Rex always wanted to have. Not this Bills defense.

 

 

I'd rather have Mario and a competent coach than no Mario and Rex.

 

Agreed with the second point.

 

 

Those advanced stats sit pretty when looking at just stats.

 

When looking at the eye test, Ryans defense in New Jersey simply was not that good. His D would make some big and great plays then turn around and give up big plays or commit errors. His teams could not cover an entire football field with the 34. Yet, his 34, like any, should cover more of the field in passing than a 43. His 34 passing defense was atrocious. His 34 passing relied on pressure up the middle from an MLB who has been vastly underrated and generated by excellent coverage from one of the best cb duos in history.

 

Many, including yourself, will argue he didn't have great personnel. That, again, is on Rex. His scheme relies too heavily on top end talent. The Jets invested a ton of draft talent in to defense.

 

 

2015

1st round - DE - Leonard Williams

3rd round - OLB Lorenzo Mauldin

 

2014

1st round - DB - Calvin Pryor

3rd round - DB - Dexter McDougle

 

2013

1st round - DB - Dee Milliner

1st round - DT - Sheldon Richardson

 

2012

1st round - DE - Quinton Coples

3rd round - DE - Demario Davis

 

2011

1st round - DT - Mo Wilkerson

3rd round - DT - Kendrick Ellis

 

2010

1st round - DB - Kyle Wilson

 

2009

3 picks made, QB, RB, G

 

2008

1st round - DE - Vernon Gohlston

4th round - DB - Dwight Lowery

 

So, in Ryan's time they used 1st round picks for 4 DB's and 4 on DL.

 

He had 2008 holdovers, among others, as well.

 

That's a hell of a lot of talent brought in to run a system where only 3 of them ended up as starers. Richardson should count as a .5 starter but he's not...so only 3 starters out of Ryan's involvement with 6 picks. The others drafted outside of the first have flamed out horribly.

 

Is that an indictment of the FO and talent scouting alone? Not in my opinion. Rex Ryan is a part of that issue, especially now that Bowles took all of that talent and has turned it in to something.

 

 

How much do you and everyone else want to invest in Rex Ryans defense to attempt success? Investing more than the Jets have is going to be difficult.

Eye test truth? I haven't heard that one before. I always thought the Jets were talented, btw, so be careful about putting words in my mouth. I do think that the cbs they drafted in the first round in recent years - Wilson and Milliner - were terrible picks, so factor that in. Do you ever look at FO, or is all about the eye test? And what about the Ravens under him? Edited December 28, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Dopey]

Mario's role in this defense was like Chris Kelsey's.

 

The not engaging hte player like we have seen several times is not uncommon. I am not trying to give a million excuses but when you set and edge and play the outside hold the edge, secure the fort and keep the play inside type of game you end up playing a wait and see defense.

 

Rex ran a 34 in NJ. He had a great pass rushing, disrupting DE who only once got 10.5 sacks. His second best year with Rex was 5.5. This year under Bowles he has 12.5 and a totally different responsibility. The Jets D is entirely made over with scheme and it shows. Rex doesn't know how to use edge defenders to generate pass without exposing a weak interior. With our substandard LB unit we are doomed with the scheme.

 

Rex held them back, he's holding us back!

 

I am going to beat this drum until people listen or until I get banned/threatened with a crusade. Rex Ryan is our problem. Mario Williams is a symptom.

I don't blame Mario. I would want out too. Yea he took the money to sign with a dysfunctional franchise, but he saw a turn around coming this year with a really good d and a " genious" defensive mind coming aboard. Rex screwed the best part of the team and by golly he's sticking with a philosophy not suited for the line or lbs who got nothing but praise on this board "let's lock up Nigel" was a common theme here. I don't think he sees things getting better even next year.

[Beerball]

But the much bigger point is how Rex ruined one of the best defenses in the NFL.

Yes, it is.

[Augie]

Yes, it is.

If we stunk then produced what we saw, I'm open. We were good, then we were not. It's on Rex. If it's too complicated for NFL players to figure out, he should start a team at MIT.

[3rdand12]

Would go a long way in showing the team accountability. If u don't want to cover ur rush lanes, and don't feel like contributing in any way other than complaining to the media, sit in the press box. I don't want the guy in my locker room .

worse yet. put him at nose. f with his head. he would have to something or get injured.

and yea i did read the whole thread BADOL

I don't blame Mario. I would want out too. Yea he took the money to sign with a dysfunctional franchise, but he saw a turn around coming this year with a really good d and a " genious" defensive mind coming aboard. Rex screwed the best part of the team and by golly he's sticking with a philosophy not suited for the line or lbs who got nothing but praise on this board "let's lock up Nigel" was a common theme here. I don't think he sees things getting better even next year.

so what what he thinks? when does that come onto play?

19 million of my dollars he is pissing away

 

get to line and go to work

somebody else needs to feed their family and will put the effort forward

 

fat can be a state of mind too.

 

Bills should be paying him piecework