Report: Whaley's job is safe

[PlayoffsPlease]

More correct: Whaley as GM -- 9-7 and t.b.d. Not to shabby.

He was the GM for the 2013 season.

Edited December 27, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease

[BillsVet]

What I believe to be the facts:

 

1) OBD in disarray

 

2) Nobody pays the price this offseason

 

Prediction:

 

1) Don't expect success (spelled playoff appearance) for 3-5 years pending regime change which will inevitably happen due too ineptness (primarily coaching staff).

 

The Buffalo Bills of 2014-15 more and more resemble the Buffalo Sabres of 2011-12 and 2012-13. T/K Pegs learned nothing from their experience there and seem inclined to simply accept the status quo until it's abundantly obvious changes must be made. Oddly enough, they spent 90M guaranteed this off-season and have nothing really to show for it. Makes me wonder what would prompt changes to the organization after what's happened this year.

 

This team has no RT and no linebackers. Why is the GM's job safe in December?

 

I'm still not clear why people advocate for Whaley, yet in the same breath note the personnel issues this team has. No RT? Whaley drafted Kouandjio. No LBs? Is that all on Rex? This is a personnel acquisition issue and that is a GM's fault.

Edited December 27, 2015 by BillsVet

[boater]

He was the GM for the 2013 season.

I stand duly corrected.

[Billschinatown]

another great find by Whaley. Giseslelesllele

[C.Biscuit97]

It's funny how much stock is put into reports with no names attached.

[stinky finger]

 

Based upon what?

It seems the owner has some hard decisions to make. 1st being Whaley. If he stays, what's the relationship with existing coaching staff? I'm in the camp that says all is not well. If he does retain Whaley could that mean Pegs has seen enough of Rex (even with remaining contract)?

 

It seems likely there are players not in favor of Rex. Right or wrong it's a factor.

 

QB? How do we invest in TT? If Rex stays, do we overhaul D?

 

I get the feeling everyone isn't rowing together. Seems like there's disarray.....IMO.

[PromoTheRobot]

People need to just suck it up and lower their expectations. Making the playoffs isn't the be all end all. We should just be happy we have a team and if they are better than 0-16 then the season should be considered a success.

No one has a gun to anyone's head forcing them to be fans of the Bills. There's 31 other teams. I'm sure one will meet your needs.

[Beerball]

 

 

 

 

Potential as what? The guy's not a rookie GM. This isn't a training program for GMs. He was made GM way to soon. Let someone else finish his training.

I'm right. You're wrong.

 

The end.

[John from Riverside]

 

There are 4 black holes behind Watkins and Clay too.

 

Whaley is a terrible GM.

 

Literally we will have 0 starting caliber linebackers from this current roster if Bradham leaves.

You wouldnt know a good gm if he walked up and smacked u alongside the head with a tuna fish

[Nihilarian]

What's the success to failure rate on free agent moves and draft picks across the league? What's Whaley?

 

It's completely my perception, I don't have the data, but I believe Whaley is league average or better in these areas. And I think he's very strong in trades.

 

Any argument without this data is not very useful and I'd love to see the data myself. Best way to judge him. Every GM has a huge contingent of misses.

The averages of what other teams do are really irrelevant when you just consider just the Buffalo offensive line and QB positions. and the abject failure that has ensued.

 

LG Andy Levitre was let walk in free agency in the 2013 offseason. The same offseason that Doug Whaley took over as GM. His replacements were Chris Williams, Doug Legurski, Colin Brown, Samy Young, and Kraig Urbik. Then RG Erik Pears, Miller, and Urbik this year. Then RT In Henderson, Kounandjio, and Mills off the street. Five players in attempting to replace one player at one position, and now finally the position is solidified by someone the HC vouched for and asked to be brought in.That's six players and the end result was not even the GM's choice.

 

Erik Pears was horrible at RT so the team moves him to RG and the team ends up suffering at both positions. The team drafts two RT's, and an RG while none of them look to be good enough to be long term starters.

 

Now look at the QB position since 2013 EJ, Jeff Tuel, Thad Lewis. Kyle Orton a one-year stop gap. Matt Cassel and Tyrod Taylor who the HC asked for or the team has Cassel and EJ as starters this year. Five bad players out of six and then the one good one weren't even this GM's idea.

 

The trades for RB Bryce Brown, WR Mike Williams were abject failures. Stuff like all this is hard for me to ignore, and blindly love a guy when he made a trade for Jerry Hughes that the Colts asked for or that he brought in McCoy, Clay because he couldn't find that elite talent in the draft. Whaley has had three years so far.

 

 

Meanwhile, the Jets just beat the Patriots and are 10-5 with noodle arm Fitz at QB, Chan Gailey as OC and did this with a team that was just 4-12 with Rex Ryan last year.

[GunnerBill]

It's pretty amazing.

 

We had little to no flaws on defense before Rex got here, now the defenses needs an overhaul.

 

The franchise is so frustrating. Rex should be fired but he won't be and the team will be bad again next year.

 

Yep. Anyone who watched that abomination tonight and actually thinks this team is anything other than ill prepared and poorly coached needs their head looking at.

[DC Grid]

I really hope Whaley stays, he's been the best at drafting talent this team has had in decades.

[Dorkington]

The averages of what other teams do are really irrelevant when you just consider just the Buffalo offensive line and QB positions. and the abject failure that has ensued.

 

LG Andy Levitre was let walk in free agency in the 2013 offseason. The same offseason that Doug Whaley took over as GM. His replacements were Chris Williams, Doug Legurski, Colin Brown, Samy Young, and Kraig Urbik. Then RG Erik Pears, Miller, and Urbik this year. Then RT In Henderson, Kounandjio, and Mills off the street. Five players in attempting to replace one player at one position, and now finally the position is solidified by someone the HC vouched for and asked to be brought in.That's six players and the end result was not even the GM's choice.

 

Erik Pears was horrible at RT so the team moves him to RG and the team ends up suffering at both positions. The team drafts two RT's, and an RG while none of them look to be good enough to be long term starters.

 

Now look at the QB position since 2013 EJ, Jeff Tuel, Thad Lewis. Kyle Orton a one-year stop gap. Matt Cassel and Tyrod Taylor who the HC asked for or the team has Cassel and EJ as starters this year. Five bad players out of six and then the one good one weren't even this GM's idea.

 

The trades for RB Bryce Brown, WR Mike Williams were abject failures. Stuff like all this is hard for me to ignore, and blindly love a guy when he made a trade for Jerry Hughes that the Colts asked for or that he brought in McCoy, Clay because he couldn't find that elite talent in the draft. Whaley has had three years so far.

 

 

Meanwhile, the Jets just beat the Patriots and are 10-5 with noodle arm Fitz at QB, Chan Gailey as OC and did this with a team that was just 4-12 with Rex Ryan last year.

 

QB: How many top 10 QBs are there? Yes, I put a hint in the question. I have no problem with drafting the 'best' guy (EJ, while also gaining an extra pick), and getting a solid vet (Kolb), then the next year getting another solid vet (Orton, and again, they made the offer early, Orton chose from his offers late in preseason), and then pulling in another vet (Cassel) and another young developing guy (Tyrod). Everything they did there was pretty logical in my opinion. It's not like Aaron Rodgers was floating around, and the draft is a total crap shoot with QBs. Hell, even 'sure thing' Luck is looking more pedestrian these days.

 

OL: Fully agree about some of the bad picks under Marrone... but then this year with Roman, we get Incognito and Miller, and Mills has been relatively solid considering he was a street FA. Definitely a mixed bag there. I'm wondering how much Marrone influenced the OL moves, because this year's moves were solid all of a sudden.

 

RB: Brown was actually relatively productive when he got on the field, he just cocked it up with really bad timing. No problem going for him there, considering how injury prone FredEx and Spiller were. And now, new offense... we get McCoy, Williams, and Gillislee, who all look fantastic. Meanwhile FredEx, Brown, and Spiller are doing relatively nothing elsewhere (though FredEx is heading to the playoffs, good for him!)

 

Defense... Hughes is an obvious win. We got a good year out of Kiko and turned that into McCoy. Picked up Graham who was awesome for us before this year. Ditto for Robey. Now we have Darby as well. We re-signed Hughes, and extended Kyle. All good moves. And the interior D backup players are actually pretty solid. Brown and Bradham also looked really good before this year as well. In fact, on paper, we still have a really good defense, minus some LB depth issues. But the new scheme has not gone well, and it's looking likely we'll have to make some major changes somewhere.

 

I just can't see how Whaley is the failure people paint him as. Most moves he's made make a whole lot of sense. Sometimes they don't work out. That happens. But more often than not, imo, he comes out looking good. This is the most talented team the Bills have had in a very very long time. Defensive coaching, injuries, and the new lockerroom identity are what's holding us back.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Dorkington

[GunnerBill]

The averages of what other teams do are really irrelevant when you just consider just the Buffalo offensive line and QB positions. and the abject failure that has ensued.

 

LG Andy Levitre was let walk in free agency in the 2013 offseason. The same offseason that Doug Whaley took over as GM. His replacements were Chris Williams, Doug Legurski, Colin Brown, Samy Young, and Kraig Urbik. Then RG Erik Pears, Miller, and Urbik this year. Then RT In Henderson, Kounandjio, and Mills off the street. Five players in attempting to replace one player at one position, and now finally the position is solidified by someone the HC vouched for and asked to be brought in.That's six players and the end result was not even the GM's choice.

 

Erik Pears was horrible at RT so the team moves him to RG and the team ends up suffering at both positions. The team drafts two RT's, and an RG while none of them look to be good enough to be long term starters

 

Let me make the counter argument on the o-line. Levitre walking happened before Whaley took control and regardless of whose deicison it was it looks better in hindsight. Young and Brown were already on the team at that point - Nix depth signings. By the time Whaley got the job that off-season the draft was done, FA was done and they were looking on the scrap heap. Legursky (a vet who has been an adequate back up elsewhere in the league) was about as good as you were going to find at that point and whilst he was overmatched when he came in he was an upgrade on Brown. He was Whaley's 1st shot (in almost impossible circumstances) at finding a decent guard. Urbik was already on the team as a starting right guard... who Marrone fell out with, benched and then brought back when almost forced to. Whaley's second shot was Chris Williams... who all Bills fans decided they hated before he played a snap. He actually played ok in his two starts (he was the best guard we fielded in 2014) then his dodgy back played up and it ended up a high priced miss. His third shots were Incognito (you say he obviously didn't want him in 2014 - ever thought maybe Marrone and his "no distractions" policy didn't want him?) and Miller (who I actually disagree with you on - I think he has some way to go in pass protection but he has played well in the run game and I see a lot of potential there).

 

So Whaley had 3 shots at left guard and the first one was with a hand tied behind his back. I think there is more room for argument at right tackle - we know they tried to get Bulaga who took less money to stay in Green Bay and play for Championships - but Kouandjio without a shadow of a doubt is a major draft bust - Whaley's worst so far.

 

The argument that he has forced EJ on people simple does not stand up to scrutiny. Has he been an EJ supporter within the organisation - sure... but he has brought in Orton, traded for Cassel and (admittedly at Rex's request) signed Taylor. They are not the actions of a man ramming EJ down coaches throats.

[Rico]

I really hope Whaley stays, he's been the best at drafting talent this team has had in decades.

It's true that some picks may pan out and some may regress, but as of right now today, he's got Sammy, Darby, and Karlos who look pretty damn good with the arrow pointing upward. That's an average of 1 a year.

[Dorkington]

 

His third shots were Incognito (you say he obviously didn't want him in 2014 - ever thought maybe Marrone and his "no distractions" policy didn't want him?) and Miller (who I actually disagree with you on - I think he has some way to go in pass protection but he has played well in the run game and I see a lot of potential there).

 

The big time success of our run game, and how much time Taylor has to make up his damned mine before throwing points to our OL being relatively decent this year, imo. And that includes our new guards, and the rotating RT.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Dorkington

[GunnerBill]

It's true that some picks may pan out and some may regress, but as of right now today, he's got Sammy, Darby, and Karlos who look pretty damn good with the arrow pointing upward. That's an average of 1 a year.

 

Depends how you look at it.... we turned Kiko into McCoy, he has Woods who whilst not stellar has been a solid player in Buffalo (though won't see a second contract) and I also give him Miller (who I really think will be a good guard in this league and has played better than some think) and Preston Brown who I believe proved last year he is a good football player who has been made to look bad by shocking coaching running a dreadful ill suited scheme.

[Nihilarian]

There really is no argument anyone can make that can sway me from the opinion that Whaley has had three years to build an offensive line, find a QB and he failed at both. The only bright spots on the team in those areas were brought in by the new HC. I'm not convinced that because the Bills have a running QB that suddenly the right side of the line is good. If the Bills had a conventional pocket QB starting this year that line would be exposed.

 

The right side of the line is still a disaster. Urbik can pass block, but stinks at run blocking. Miller can run block but stinks at pass blocking. There are better starting RG's to be had as a starter and backup then those two. At RT both Henderson and Kounandjio stink, pure and simple. Both should be replaced, and not by Mills.

 

I don't even want to think of what this year's team would look like without Incognito or Tyrod Taylor, and the team might just lose LT Cordy Glenn, and LG Richie Incognito this offseason. If that happens what a mess this team will look like then.

 

I just want to see the Bills make the playoffs, and SOON! I don't see that with Doug Whaley calling the shots, making all the decisions. If Rex Ryan was really his choice for HC then there is just another reason to get someone above him to make the final decisions.

[26CornerBlitz]

There really is no argument anyone can make that can sway me from the opinion that Whaley has had three years to build an offensive line, find a QB and he failed at both. The only bright spots on the team in those areas were brought in by the new HC. I'm not convinced that because the Bills have a running QB that suddenly the right side of the line is good. If the Bills had a conventional pocket QB starting this year that line would be exposed.

 

The right side of the line is still a disaster. Urbik can pass block, but stinks at run blocking. Miller can run block but stinks at pass blocking. There are better starting RG's to be had as a starter and backup then those two. At RT both Henderson and Kounandjio stink, pure and simple. Both should be replaced, and not by Mills.

 

I don't even want to think of what this year's team would look like without Incognito or Tyrod Taylor, and the team might just lose LT Cordy Glenn, and LG Richie Incognito this offseason. If that happens what a mess this team will look like then.

 

I just want to see the Bills make the playoffs, and SOON! I don't see that with Doug Whaley calling the shots, making all the decisions. If Rex Ryan was really his choice for HC then there is just another reason to get someone above him to make the final decisions.

 

Get ready to stay mad then. If only you had influence to sway the Pegulas

[GunnerBill]

There really is no argument anyone can make that can sway me from the opinion that Whaley has had three years to build an offensive line, find a QB and he failed at both. The only bright spots on the team in those areas were brought in by the new HC. I'm not convinced that because the Bills have a running QB that suddenly the right side of the line is good. If the Bills had a conventional pocket QB starting this year that line would be exposed.

 

The right side of the line is still a disaster. Urbik can pass block, but stinks at run blocking. Miller can run block but stinks at pass blocking. There are better starting RG's to be had as a starter and backup then those two. At RT both Henderson and Kounandjio stink, pure and simple. Both should be replaced, and not by Mills.

 

I don't even want to think of what this year's team would look like without Incognito or Tyrod Taylor, and the team might just lose LT Cordy Glenn, and LG Richie Incognito this offseason. If that happens what a mess this team will look like then.

 

I just want to see the Bills make the playoffs, and SOON! I don't see that with Doug Whaley calling the shots, making all the decisions. If Rex Ryan was really his choice for HC then there is just another reason to get someone above him to make the final decisions.

 

I think the right guard position has been upgraded and we will have to show some patience with Miller - but he will come good - I have faith. He has played better than many think. The right tackle position I agree has been mismanged and we do not have a starting calibre right tackle on the roster. Henderson might be an ok depth guy possibly - he is not without talent but the mental side of his game is lacking.

 

As for "finding a Quarterback".... that is easier said than done. I think Whaley overall in two full offseasons has built the most talented Bills roster in a long time. The Head Coach is the problem... he just isn't very good. I don't believe he was Whaley's "choice". Was Whaley on board? Yes I think he was - but the Pegulas chose Rex. I'd fire Rex, give Whaley total control and let him hire the next Head Coach.

 

I do see how some of Whaley's decisions split the fanbase... and I understand the counter argument but you have to make a number of assumptions that I am not sure I totally buy. Seeing 3 or 4 of those things differently makes a huge difference to how you see the stay or go argument.