Carucci: Bills won't discuss Whaley's future during season

[Augie]

I think canning Whaley would be a step in the wrong direction at this point. I can't see giving Rex any more power until he learns how to manage a game better and pay attention to the detail of some of the fine points that we've been suffering a death by a thousand cuts this year.

Completely agree on this point. Whaley is much better at his job than Rex is at his. Giving Rex MORE control would make me very, very unhappy.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Augie

[YoloinOhio]

It'd be a typical Bills move to get rid of the guy who has actually put talent on the team.

what is a "typical Bills move" these days? Have the new owners shown that they have done this before? I don't think they've owned the team long enough to establish any pattern of "typical moves" getting rid of someone who had brought talent to the team. Unless you are referring to the Sabres? Edited December 8, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[FireChan]

 

Whaley still hasn't signed an extension, and my guess is that Vic asked OBD what the status is, and they told him they won't discuss it during the season. There's four games left in the regular season, it's a valid question to ask by a reporter, especially in light of Whaley's comments today that he's been in touch with Richie's and Glenn's agents for an extension.

Most likely.

 

Pretty big echo chamber in this here topic. I hope we don't see any tears if Whaley is canned.

[RyanC883]

I think canning Whaley would be a step in the wrong direction at this point. I can't see giving Rex any more power until he learns how to manage a game better and pay attention to the detail of some of the fine points that we've been suffering a death by a thousand cuts this year.

 

Agreed. And giving Rex more power did not work out so well in NY. Whaley has done a great job. Darby, P. Brown, Watkins (when TT remembers to throw to him), getting Roman, etc. We'd look like idiots if we fired Whaley. The talent on the team is not the issue. The utilization of it at critical points in the game is. That's on Rex.

Completely agree on this point. Whaley is much better at his job than Rex is at his. Giving Rex MORE control would make me very, very unhappy.

 

And who would replace Whaley. Some Rex minion (like Dennis Thurman is the minion DC)? This would be a disaster.

[NOVABillsFan]

 

Whaley still hasn't signed an extension, and my guess is that Vic asked OBD what the status is, and they told him they won't discuss it during the season. There's four games left in the regular season, it's a valid question to ask by a reporter, especially in light of Whaley's comments today that he's been in touch with Richie's and Glenn's agents for an extension.

Here is my rational for not doing it now.

 

Getting into the playoffs = more $$$$ for Doug

 

The team has been the best it has been in over a decade yet somehow people want him gone! ?

Edited December 8, 2015 by NOVABillsFan

[KDIGGZ]

Pure speculation here. It made perfect sense with the emergence of Karlos.

And then it made less sense with the injury to Karlos. And then the injury to Karlos again. And again.

[YoloinOhio]

 

Agreed. And giving Rex more power did not work out so well in NY. Whaley has done a great job. Darby, P. Brown, Watkins (when TT remembers to throw to him), getting Roman, etc. We'd look like idiots if we fired Whaley. The talent on the team is not the issue. The utilization of it at critical points in the game is. That's on Rex.

 

 

And who would replace Whaley. Some Rex minion (like Dennis Thurman is the minion DC)? This would be a disaster.

when did they give Rex any power in NY? I thought the story was that they didn't give him any.

[T master]

What is there to talk about ? The guy has put together the most talented roster the Bills have seen in years & him & the HC have the exact same thoughts when it comes to how to build a team so what then ?

 

If the Pegula's were foolish enough to get rid of Whaley after seeing the potential of what this team can do in only the first year of a 2 scheme change would be crazy !

 

I'm not all about Rex scheme i liked Schwartz scheme a lot better i think it fit the players better but even the D is doing some good things but could be better & may be with more familiarity in this scheme .

 

So to clear out the guy that put it all together in such a short time period would be totally a old Bills move, more like something that Ralph would do !!!

[NOVABillsFan]

when did they give Rex any power in NY? I thought the story was that they didn't give him any.

is it a full moon again?

[KDIGGZ]

Can't throw stojan like this out there without something to give it credibility. Your opinion doesn't count.

Heard it from a very reliable source. They are very down to earth people. They didn't like the negativity of getting rid of Fred. They run a billion dollar business but their business contacts are like family to them. Terry has never fired anyone ever (at his company). They would rather keep beloved Fred and have a RB that stinks than get rid of him and have the outcry that resulted. That's not how they do things. Whaley acted on his own and was very sneaky about it. It hurt one of our biggest sponsors (m&t) who had just spent millions on an ad campaign featuring Fred. Not good business and that's not how the Pegula's do things.

 

But that's not why they would get rid of him. It just makes it easier to do so. They have wanted to bring in someone to run football operations from the beginning and that person will have their own ideas about GM. They are willing to spend whatever it takes to win a super bowl

Edited December 8, 2015 by kdiggz

[Leroi]

Make the Playoffs and T^2 and Whaley will get an extension.

 

Lets let the season play out. We still have 4 games remaining...

 

 

Imo

[KDIGGZ]

Make the Playoffs and T^2 and Whaley will get an extension.

 

Lets let the season play out. We still have 4 games remaining...

 

 

Imo

I agree it's easy to make such decisions when you are winning. But if you are not playing up to expectations then that's when things get hairy

[papazoid]

@viccarucci: According to a team source, #Bills won't, per SOP, have any discussions about the future of GM Doug Whaley "during the season."

 

 

Weird tweet - isn't it normal to make these decisions in the offseason? Needless pot stirring by Vic? I mean - was anyone thinking about this while preparing for the Eagles game?

 

 

thats because his fate is tied to making the playoffs.

 

bills in , he stays.

 

bills out, whaley out.

[Nanker]

#WhaleyGoesRogueAgain

 

Bills win means slow week for outrage. Gotta gin some up.

 

Perfect!

[26CornerBlitz]

If the Bills are dumb enough to fire Whaley, another NFL team will be glad to have him as one of their executives. He won't be unemployed for very long.

[Kelly the Dog]

And then it made less sense with the injury to Karlos. And then the injury to Karlos again. And again.

Fred got hurt with Seattle, and then bypassed for playing time by an UDFA. He has 17 carries for 74 yards the entire season on a team that usually runs and has had their #1 RB hurt half of the year.

[Jobu]

Getting rid of Whaley would be a very Billsy move. Nobody shoots themselves in the foot like the Buffalo Bills.

[Rico]

Heard it from a very reliable source. They are very down to earth people. They didn't like the negativity of getting rid of Fred. They run a billion dollar business but their business contacts are like family to them. Terry has never fired anyone ever (at his company). They would rather keep beloved Fred and have a RB that stinks than get rid of him and have the outcry that resulted. That's not how they do things. Whaley acted on his own and was very sneaky about it. It hurt one of our biggest sponsors (m&t) who had just spent millions on an ad campaign featuring Fred. Not good business and that's not how the Pegula's do things.

 

But that's not why they would get rid of him. It just makes it easier to do so. They have wanted to bring in someone to run football operations from the beginning and that person will have their own ideas about GM. They are willing to spend whatever it takes to win a super bowl

Thanks.

[elroy16]

Heard it from a very reliable source. They are very down to earth people. They didn't like the negativity of getting rid of Fred. They run a billion dollar business but their business contacts are like family to them. Terry has never fired anyone ever (at his company). They would rather keep beloved Fred and have a RB that stinks than get rid of him and have the outcry that resulted. That's not how they do things. Whaley acted on his own and was very sneaky about it. It hurt one of our biggest sponsors (m&t) who had just spent millions on an ad campaign featuring Fred. Not good business and that's not how the Pegula's do things.

 

But that's not why they would get rid of him. It just makes it easier to do so. They have wanted to bring in someone to run football operations from the beginning and that person will have their own ideas about GM. They are willing to spend whatever it takes to win a super bowl

 

 

 

So they're willing to spend whatever to get a super bowl, but won't cut fan favorites, even if they're over the hill?

 

 

I understand wanting to treat your business partners with respect and like they're family, but getting upset about football decisions because they might conflict with marketing campaigns is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. If it comes out that this is true and they fire Whaley due to the outcry of cutting a 34 year and the conflict with the marketing campaign, than we are f**ked as a fan base for the next 30 years.

 

 

 

Can you also show us how this hurt M&T bank? I saw Tim Graham post how cutting Fred a day before the marketing campaign came out was embarrassing and made a big deal about it. I told him that is stupid and basing football decisions on anything but football performance is moronic.

Edited December 8, 2015 by elroy16

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

 

So they're willing to spend whatever to get a super bowl, but won't cut fan favorites, even if they're over the hill?

 

 

I understand wanting to treat your business partners with respect and like they're family, but getting upset about football decisions because they might conflict with marketing campaigns is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. If it comes out that this is true and they fire Whaley due to the outcry of cutting a 34 year and the conflict with the marketing campaign, than we are f**ked as a fan base for the next 30 years.

 

Great points!

[Leroi]

 

 

thats because his fate is tied to making the playoffs.

 

bills in , he stays.

 

bills out, whaley out.

 

I'd be okay with this. This year is the window of opportunity when the next step must be taken, there must be consequences to actions.

 

 

 

Imo

[GG]

 

 

 

So they're willing to spend whatever to get a super bowl, but won't cut fan favorites, even if they're over the hill?

 

 

I understand wanting to treat your business partners with respect and like they're family, but getting upset about football decisions because they might conflict with marketing campaigns is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. If it comes out that this is true and they fire Whaley due to the outcry of cutting a 34 year and the conflict with the marketing campaign, than we are f**ked as a fan base for the next 30 years.

 

 

 

Can you also show us how this hurt M&T bank? I saw Tim Graham post how cutting Fred a day before the marketing campaign came out was embarrassing and made a big deal about it. I told him that is stupid and basing football decisions on anything but football performance is moronic.

 

I think that the M&T discussion was beaten to death in the original Fred thread, and kdiggz source confirms a lot of speculation that went on in that thread. It's becoming more clear that Pegulas didn't appreciate how Whaley approached that move, and it will be part of his overall evaluation at the end of the season. This could be a parallel to why Lafontaine was shown the door after he allegedly crossed Kim on handling a personnel matter.

 

Sometimes it's not what people do, it's how they do it.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

I think that the M&T discussion was beaten to death in the original Fred thread, and kdiggz source confirms a lot of speculation that went on in that thread. It's becoming more clear that Pegulas didn't appreciate how Whaley approached that move, and it will be part of his overall evaluation at the end of the season. This could be a parallel to why Lafontaine was shown the door after he allegedly crossed Kim on handling a personnel matter.

 

Sometimes it's not what people do, it's how they do it.

 

People are acting as if he cut Fred and then told the Pegulas and the coaches afterward. That's not what happened as I recall. A GM is supposed to make football decisions and that's exactly what he did. Fred was expendable.

[machine gun kelly]

Agreed, the irony is that I think that Whaley is a lot better at his job than Rex is at his.

 

 

KJ- Couldn't agree more. Whaley is the stronger link here vs. Rex.

 

The critical question always is "ok, if you can him, who is better?" Whaley has the Steelers pedigree, and has shown so many good calls over the last few years. I was about to go through the Hughes trade, and other late hits like Karlos Williams, but too many to share and somebody will find misses thinking a GM is supposed to hit 100% of the time which never happens.

 

Don't forget Whaley did not pick Rex. Pegula did.

[808]

not keeping whaley i believe would be a mistake. but i am also at the point that i don't care what happens i just want to win. I'm tired of losing. in a league with this much parody the bills have been able to continue to be inept. just win thats i care about

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I think that the M&T discussion was beaten to death in the original Fred thread, and kdiggz source confirms a lot of speculation that went on in that thread. It's becoming more clear that Pegulas didn't appreciate how Whaley approached that move, and it will be part of his overall evaluation at the end of the season. This could be a parallel to why Lafontaine was shown the door after he allegedly crossed Kim on handling a personnel matter.

 

Sometimes it's not what people do, it's how they do it.

According to Whaley he spoke to Rex and Roman and the Pegulas before he released Fred.

[LA Grant]

It would be foolish to get rid of Whaley after this year, I think. This past year was his best off-season. Best draft so far. Great choices in free agency.

 

I think Rex has very good GM instincts (Taylor, Darby, and probably Karlos) but I wouldn't trust him to run the whole show. Similarly, Whaley is very good at certain things but has had some foolish gambits (betting too much on EJ and Sammy when we could've been more conservative and better off).

 

I think Rex and Whaley balance each other out.

[FireChan]

According to Whaley he spoke to Rex and Roman and the Pegulas before he released Fred.

According to the criminal, he's innocent.

 

If the Bills are dumb enough to fire Whaley, another NFL team will be glad to have him as one of their executives. He won't be unemployed for very long.

Hopefully he goes to the Pats. He could be voted the best paper GM of all time, and they'll miss the playoffs for his entire tenure

[GG]

 

People are acting as if he cut Fred and then told the Pegulas and the coaches afterward. That's not what happened as I recall. A GM is supposed to make football decisions and that's exactly what he did. Fred was expendable.

 

He obviously bypassed some chain of command, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue still. Even if he informed Pegula, but kept Brandon in the dark, that doesn't bode well for him to bypass his boss. There wouldn't have been as much finger pointing inside the organization if he went through the proper channels. Apparently he didn't.

 

I'll ask you. Name the last good to great GM who was left hanging without a contract extension into the offseason.

[Kelly the Dog]

According to the criminal, he's innocent.

That's not applicable. He WOULD have reason to be fired if he came out in public and said yeah I discussed it with the Pegulas first when they would be the only ones that knew if he really did or not.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

He obviously bypassed some chain of command, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue still. Even if he informed Pegula, but kept Brandon in the dark, that doesn't bode well for him to bypass his boss. There wouldn't have been as much finger pointing inside the organization if he went through the proper channels. Apparently he didn't.

 

I'll ask you. Name the last good to great GM who was left hanging without a contract extension into the offseason.

 

Brandon isn't his boss.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

He obviously bypassed some chain of command, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue still. Even if he informed Pegula, but kept Brandon in the dark, that doesn't bode well for him to bypass his boss. There wouldn't have been as much finger pointing inside the organization if he went through the proper channels. Apparently he didn't.

 

I'll ask you. Name the last good to great GM who was left hanging without a contract extension into the offseason.

Brandon is not his boss.

[FireChan]

That's not applicable. He WOULD have reason to be fired if he came out in public and said yeah I discussed it with the Pegulas first when they would be the only ones that knew if he really did or not.

Or the Pegulas gave him a Mulligan and showed "outward unity."

[Kelly the Dog]

Or the Pegulas gave him a Mulligan and showed "outward unity."

Then all of this Whaley is in trouble and may be fired is moot.

[FireChan]

Then all of this Whaley is in trouble and may be fired is moot.

Why? Because they didn't fire him in the beginning of TC means they're enamored with him? Second-chances don't extend forever.

 

I swear, the mental gymnastics some of y'all go through.

Edited December 8, 2015 by FireChan

[GG]

 

Brandon isn't his boss.

 

 

Brandon is not his boss.

 

He is the President of the Buffalo Bills, and sits higher up the food chain that Whaley. If he's the one with egg on his face with M&T, he would make sure that Whaley knew he screwed up.

[Buftex]

Agreed, the irony is that I think that Whaley is a lot better at his job than Rex is at his.

When your right your right!

Edited December 8, 2015 by Buftex

[KDIGGZ]

So they're willing to spend whatever to get a super bowl, but won't cut fan favorites, even if they're over the hill?

 

 

I understand wanting to treat your business partners with respect and like they're family, but getting upset about football decisions because they might conflict with marketing campaigns is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. If it comes out that this is true and they fire Whaley due to the outcry of cutting a 34 year and the conflict with the marketing campaign, than we are f**ked as a fan base for the next 30 years.

 

 

 

Can you also show us how this hurt M&T bank? I saw Tim Graham post how cutting Fred a day before the marketing campaign came out was embarrassing and made a big deal about it. I told him that is stupid and basing football decisions on anything but football performance is moronic.

It's dumb to us because we only care about football. It's not dumb to the Pegula's who have spent many years building up their brand and don't want to hurt their reputation by looking like the bad guys. They want to win but they want to do it the right way too. Whaley only cares about the team on the field but there are other things to consider when you look at the operation as a whole (unfortunately). Kim is hands on every day with the business so she is the one that looks bad when the top sponsor gets screwed out of a ton of money. They are still building their relationships and that was a bad look for them. As you can imagine they didn't like having to clean up that mess. But again that's not why they would get someone else. They just might not put up a fight if their new football czar wants to bring in his own people. Whaley would be snatched up in about 2 seconds though so maybe if it came down to it he might not want to stay anyhow

[vorpma]

1999 was the last year this team appeared in the playoffs; hired by the Bills in 2010. Less than spectacular drafts, head coaching hires, and the EJ Emanual pick. His future needs to be considered as well as the fact this organization still has a "losing culture."

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

 

He is the President of the Buffalo Bills, and sits higher up the food chain that Whaley. If he's the one with egg on his face with M&T, he would make sure that Whaley knew he screwed up.

IMO he was definitely the one that went crying to Timmah. But that doesn't mean he is Whaley's boss. In fact, he has zero to do with football and Whaley, like Rex, reports directly to the Pegulas.