Tyrod Taylor- The Sitting a QB Approach

[FireChan]

This used to be the way it was done as many QBs are not ready for the NFL. There was a string of a few special talents entering the league and doing very well so now the 1st round QB starts right away and you roll the dice hoping he gets it.

What? When did this change? It's been like this for at least 10 years.

[Bill from NYC]

I was thinking about this the other day. If TT succeeds in a big way, it could change the way the NFL looks at QBs in some ways. First, guys like him may get longer looks, rather than just going with the next new guy every year or every other year.

 

But maybe more so, smaller, running QBs may get more looks. Russell Wilson was an aberration (I still think so until TT can do this more than a year or so). But now Taylor looks like lightning struck twice. The problem for teams doing this however, is that TT is a lot more than a QB who can run, and it doesn't even count the fact he has a rocket arm. He's also very smart, a great leader, very poised, and great work ethic. That's an impressive package and surely not all of these guys teams will be giving chances to have all of those invaluable traits.

 

If TT succeeds he may indeed make the NFL powers that be look at the position differently. And they likely will fail because the guys they will be giving these chances to are not likely to have everything it takes. We may have struck gold but it's not that TT was never given a chance. It will be because he has an extraordinary assortment of talents that are just as unlikely to be found in a 6'4" guy as a 6'1" guy.

KTD, Pat Kirwin has been talking about sitting qbs for a few seasons for weeks now. He mentions Rodgers, Tyrod and yes, Ryan Mallett. Mallett has a 100 million dollar arm and a ten cent head. That said, he won a football game last week without his left tackle. He just might win some more games too. Maybe it helped him just to be on a team around people who know what they are doing, I don't know.

 

Teams play the spread in college these days. It is SO different in the NFL and the transition seems to be taking longer. What I like about this is that in the scenario that Tyrod is the real deal, the trade value for EJ will increase, perhaps by a lot.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 2, 2015 by Bill from NYC

[The Wiz]

What? When did this change? It's been like this for at least 10 years.

I guess it depends on where the player was drafted. Most guys drafted in the 1st round were expected to contribute quickly (especially the high draft picks). The guys drafted outside of the first round were expected to sit and learn unless they showed something the others didn't in camp.

 

Even EJ at 16 was expected to be sitting his first year behind Kolb.

 

As for Rodgers, I'm curious what would have happened if he was drafted where he was expected to go(top 10) instead of at 24.

Edited October 1, 2015 by The Wiz

[FireChan]

I guess it depends on where the player was drafted. Most guys drafted in the 1st round were expected to contribute quickly (especially the high draft picks). The guys drafted outside of the first round were expected to sit and learn unless they showed something the others didn't in camp.

 

Even EJ at 16 was expected to be sitting his first year behind Kolb.

Yep, but it's been like that for a while. For every Rivers and Rodgers, you have at least 5 more guys who started out the gate. And those guys had the luxury of being first round talents and being behind entrenched starters.

[Dragonborn10]

It has been three games. I hope it continues but my god can we just wait a little. As Romes pointed out we have been fooled before by Fitz, Losman, Edwards, and even Bledsoe for eight games.

I was in the EJ camp. This kid seems more accurate on short and mid-range throws. I didn't like his pocket awareness against the Patriots. He should carve up the Giants this week. Let's hope he just keeps building on what he has done.

And get a healthy Watkins back...

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

The thing is, it's not really even a debate. Mostly everyone agrees that it would be ideal for a QB to sit for at least a year, hold a clipboard, and learn as the backup. The problem is getting ownership, the FO/coaching staff, and the fan base to all sign up for that delayed gratification. Somewhere along the way (Luck and Co. being so good so fast didn't help), everyone got so impatient.

 

It's early, but Tyrod has the athleticism and mental makeup of a real top-tier QB in this league that Trent and Fitz never did. Now the key is to draft a QB this year (maybe second to fourth round) to back him up and learn from Taylor the way he did from Flacco. Agree?

[The Wiz]

Yep, but it's been like that for a while. For every Rivers and Rodgers, you have at least 5 more guys who started out the gate. And those guys had the luxury of being first round talents and being behind entrenched starters.

Right. And I think Jeremy is saying the same thing. There was a period when the 1st round QB was guaranteed to be the starter come opening day in a specific time frame of generational talent and now they aren't as good or require the time to develop. Everyone was saying Winston would be fine and he's been looking like he needed a few years behind a vet to get into the game.

[Nihilarian]

Its also not that uncommon for a perennial backup QB to finally get it, and become a decent starter for awhile. Fitz comes to mind.

 

Yea, I do think that there is so much pressure on players to perform asap or they are given up on, and that happens on just about every position nowadays.

 

The Patriots always seemed to be grooming a QB behind Brady for whatever reasons. So many teams still don't have their franchise QB so they don't have the luxury of allowing a QB to sit and learn for four years.

[Herb Sewell]

With the lack of true pocket passers in college, teams will either have to develop the read option/spread guys or adapt the offenses. Going with the premise that TT is The Guy, sitting a QB for a few seasons may be the surest way to find and develop that franchise guy. Or wait every 10 years for a Luck or a lucky late round gem.

 

The instant starter franchise guy is the anomaly, yet every rookie is now expected to do just that. How many potential franchise guys were ruined when they were thrown to the fire rather than given time?

[FireChan]

Right. And I think Jeremy is saying the same thing. There was a period when the 1st round QB was guaranteed to be the starter come opening day in a specific time frame of generational talent and now they aren't as good or require the time to develop. Everyone was saying Winston would be fine and he's been looking like he needed a few years behind a vet to get into the game.

The way he said it made me think he meant it's a newer phenomena.

[jeffismagic]

Patience, grasshopper. Little Jimmy is bulking up on HGH and getting a radio fitted in his helmet so his OC can tell him who's open during plays.

 

So he's taking the Brady developmental path?

[NoSaint]

I believe they can renegotiate but I don't know how anyone would be able to convince a player to take less money over a longer period of time. It's likely he will be released and not extended as a result of it.

 

Ummm.... Easy. "We will not exercise your option, would you like to negotiate a deal to stay or go to free agency? No matter what you are not being paid in the same zip code of the option, yet along ball park."

 

And then he decides if he believes in this staff for his long term future or wants a more immediate shot to compete

[K-9]

Sitting and learning for a few seasons is the ideal scenario. Just as important is the situation that QB is sitting and learning in. In the case of Rodgers and TT, it was ideal. Both learned behind SB winners and coaching staffs that knew how to teach. Ultimately, it comes down to the individual of course, and for my money, Taylor's combination of intelligence and work ethic will ensure he succeeds. The learning curve from week 2 to week 3 was obvious. Yes, Roman tweaked a couple things for him, but you could tell Taylor learned from watching that NE**** tape.

 

Impressive stuff.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beef Jerky]

So he's taking the Brady developmental path?

Not really Brady's... The Devil has last say on who is next in line to sell their soul. Only if one accepts will Brady be granted his freedom and soul back. So it probably won't happen.

[Kelly the Dog]

Sitting and learning for a few seasons is the ideal scenario. Just as important is the situation that QB is sitting and learning in. In the case of Rodgers and TT, it was ideal. Both learned behind SB winners and coaching staffs that knew how to teach. Ultimately, it comes down to the individual of course, and for my money, Taylor's combination of intelligence and work ethic will ensure he succeeds. The learning curve from week 2 to week 3 was obvious. Yes, Roman tweaked a couple things for him, but you could tell Taylor learned from watching that NE**** tape.

 

Impressive stuff.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Very true. Still, IMO the amount of sixth round QBs who sit for four years and then play versus ones that are cut before then or play and are discarded are probably close to being equal. There is a reason there are only 15 people on earth who can do this job well. Tyrod is playing well more because he has a boatload of mad skills, and his head on straight, and great coaching, more than other late round picks in his position would have also succeeded like he has.

[TheJuice]

I'm as excited as anyone about the prospect of Tyrod being the guy. Defenses are just beginning to build a book on him and there are many that fade out of the league quickly defenses start taking away their best stuff.

 

Just from the bills look at Doug Fluties drop off between 98 and 99, Losman had a promising year in 06, Trent fooled everyone for over a year (bill Walsh saw something in the.kid...). Fitz was awarded a big contract based on a 5 game sample under Chans system.

 

Late this year we may have serious discussions about whether Tyrod is any good. It won't be until 2017 until we' have a really good idea

Right on. I don't want to take anything at all away from Taylor but this is a legitimate concern. Being "new", with Greg Roman, and having so many skilled guys to feed the ball to is propping him up big-time. Roman's approach to the game, especially the ground game, along with his experiences with Kaep, Alex Smith and now Tyrod may be unprecedented in the NFL. I feel like Roman is much better equipped than previous regimes at staying a step ahead on adjustments. I feel like his influence could be strong enough to make Tyrod want to follow him actually. Our success offensively could be 75% Roman. I think any of the QBs in the race could have good numbers at this stage. I love Tyrod so far, and that's fine with me if it's as much or more Roman and supporting cast as it is Tyrod. That all said, most of his throws have been on the money and when he misses, it's always the right way to miss. He keeps it nice and low over the middle. Time will tell with Tyrod. I already know Roman is the man.

[The Wiz]

Ummm.... Easy. "We will not exercise your option, would you like to negotiate a deal to stay or go to free agency? No matter what you are not being paid in the same zip code of the option, yet along ball park."

 

And then he decides if he believes in this staff for his long term future or wants a more immediate shot to compete

If it were a qb that has been around the league and everyone knew what he was capable of sure, but for a qb on a rookie contact that has shown enough to hang on to it might be a bit harder. I'm not saying it's not possible but there are probably other teams that will be more desperate was my point about not giving him the 5th year and signing him for more than he's worth.

[K-9]

Very true. Still, IMO the amount of sixth round QBs who sit for four years and then play versus ones that are cut before then or play and are discarded are probably close to being equal. There is a reason there are only 15 people on earth who can do this job well. Tyrod is playing well more because he has a boatload of mad skills, and his head on straight, and great coaching, more than other late round picks in his position would have also succeeded like he has.

Agree entirely. It all starts with the player. Suffice to say, TT was never your average 6th rd. quarterback even when he was a sixth round QB. Needless to say, player evaluation, especially for QBs, is about as far from an exact science as it gets.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

Agree entirely. It all starts with the player. Suffice to say, TT was never your average 6th rd. quarterback even when he was a sixth round QB. Needless to say, player evaluation, especially for QBs, is about as far from an exact science as it gets.

GO BILLS!!!

Yup. That's why this seems and may be different. There are a ton of little things that make me believe TT may be the guy and it's only half because of his play so far. Listening to Bills players talk about him is different. He's totally in control. They think he has command of the huddle and the offense. He's the first to arrive and last to leave. Rex gave the team the choice of what to wear between sweats and casual attire and he wore a suit, saying if I'm the leader of this team I want to set an example. The poise he has shone waiting for the right moment to throw is something that is tough to be taught. I don't want to go overboard but I have long professed that there are 20+ elements to being a good QB in this league and he has a ton of them.

[K-9]

Right on. I don't want to take anything at all away from Taylor but this is a legitimate concern. Being "new", with Greg Roman, and having so many skilled guys to feed the ball to is propping him up big-time. Roman's approach to the game, especially the ground game, along with his experiences with Kaep, Alex Smith and now Tyrod may be unprecedented in the NFL. I feel like Roman is much better equipped than previous regimes at staying a step ahead on adjustments. I feel like his influence could be strong enough to make Tyrod want to follow him actually. Our success offensively could be 75% Roman. I think any of the QBs in the race could have good numbers at this stage. I love Tyrod so far, and that's fine with me if it's as much or more Roman and supporting cast as it is Tyrod. That all said, most of his throws have been on the money and when he misses, it's always the right way to miss. He keeps it nice and low over the middle. Time will tell with Tyrod. I already know Roman is the man.

While I appreciate the spirit of this post, I can't agree with the idea that Roman is 75% of TT's success. It always comes down to a player's ability to assimilate knowledge and execute. Taking nothing away from Roman, but the world is littered with bright football minds that never had the QB to transfer his game from the classroom to the practice field to the game.

 

Roman has done well at putting players in a position to succeed, but it's those players that have realized the success on the field of play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

While I appreciate the spirit of this post, I can't agree with the idea that Roman is 75% of TT's success. It always comes down to a player's ability to assimilate knowledge and execute. Taking nothing away from Roman, but the world is littered with bright football minds that never had the QB to transfer his game from the classroom to the practice field to the game.

Roman has done well at putting players in a position to succeed, but it's those players that have realized the success on the field of play.

GO BILLS!!!

Yep. But it's a great example of you need talent and coaching and other good players. Look at who has succeeded. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, all have had great talent, great coaching, and great players around them even if they made players look good at times.

[K-9]

Yup. That's why this seems and may be different. There are a ton of little things that make me believe TT may be the guy and it's only half because of his play so far. Listening to Bills players talk about him is different. He's totally in control. They think he has command of the huddle and the offense. He's the first to arrive and last to leave. Rex gave the team the choice of what to wear between sweats and casual attire and he wore a suit, saying if I'm the leader of this team I want to set an example. The poise he has shone waiting for the right moment to throw is something that is tough to be taught. I don't want to go overboard but I have long professed that there are 20+ elements to being a good QB in this league and he has a ton of them.

Great to see, isn't it? And what he has is infectious. Themimportance of leadership at the position cannot be overstated. We really hit the jackpot in that regard, although he got high marks in that department coming out of VT, so I shouldn't be surprised. That staff and group of players of players in Baltimore really taught him how to be a pro. I have great respect for that team.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[No Cease Fires]

I love the TD to Clay last week. Taylor drops back and WAITS for the play to develop. He has all day to throw but how many times have we seen a Bills QB then skip the ball at his receiver's feet, or force the guy to lay out to catch it, or come back to the ball. Nope, he waits, exudes calm - seriously watch the play again, TT is taking a stroll in the park - and then slings it to Clay, hitting him in full stride. It's like he looks like he's fallen asleep out there (from the chest up anyway) and then rifles the ball perfectly to his guy. It's the kind of simple play I see Russell Wilson make all the time and our guys, all too rarely.

Edited October 2, 2015 by No Cease Fires

[jumbalaya]

usually rookie QBs fail, because of coaching and / or playing on bad teams not because they sat awhile or played too early. JPP, TE, EJ are prime examples that played early but did not have good coaches or teams. starting rookie QBs that have poor rookie seasons but develop in time have good coaching or developing along with a good team. Aikman, Payton, etc. We just haven't had a good coach or team in a long long time.

[K-9]

I love the TD to Clay last week. Taylor drops back and WAITS for the play to develop. He has all day to throw but how many times have we seen a Bills QB then skip the ball at his receiver's feet, or force the guy to lay out to catch it, or come back to the ball. Nope, he waits, exudes calm - seriously watch the play again, TT is taking a stroll in the park - and then slings it to Clay, hitting him in full stride. It's like he looks like he's fallen asleep out there (from the chest up anyway) and then rifles the ball perfectly to his guy. It's the kind of simple play I see Russell Wilson make all the time and our guys, all too rarely.

 

That was an interesting play from the dropback dynamic. TT dropped back 13 yards on that pass and hit Clay in stride only a yard past the LOS. He was taking deeper drops all day which was a great tweak by Roman. It bought more time, obviously, but also allowed Taylor better downfield of vision. Smart.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Dragonborn10]

This used to be the way it was done as many QBs are not ready for the NFL. There was a string of a few special talents entering the league and doing very well so now the 1st round QB starts right away and you roll the dice hoping he gets it.

Not really. Marino, Elway, Testaverde, Favre, Aikman, Couch, Akio Smith, McNabb. These guys good or bad all started early. Doesn't make it wrong or right. I bet even Marrone wanted to sit EJ behind Kolb for a year. Why the hell they didn't just keep Fitz and sit EJ still is crazy to me.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I didn't read all 5 pages, (I can assume there may be one or two who disagree) so, should I assume now that 95% are in agreement with developing a QB.

Luck has been an INT machine.. I still say sitting him would have helped him to lean to avoid some of them.

[YoloinOhio]

I didn't read all 5 pages, (I can assume there may be one or two who disagree) so, should I assume now that 95% are in agreement with developing a QB.

 

Luck has been an INT machine.. I still say sitting him would have helped him to lean to avoid some of them.

polian wanted to draft him and keep Peyton, letting him sit for a few years. Irsay said no way.just heard this the other day in a interview with the author of the new book Brady vs. Manning. Edited October 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

polian wanted to draft him and keep Peyton, letting him sit for a few years. Irsay said no way. just heard this the other day in a interview with the author of the new book Brady vs. Manning.

interesting. Polian out Irsay in control, same old in Indy. Quality QB and no supporting cast

 

took a look to verify my recollection 5 TD's 7 INT's for Mr Luck.

Edited October 2, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Leap year: Tyrod Taylor proving patience is a virtue

sorry if already posted in this thread.

[26CornerBlitz]

Leap year: Tyrod Taylor proving patience is a virtue

sorry if already posted in this thread.

 

It is and I deleted the other thread.

[PromoTheRobot]

One of the benefits of being out to a big lead early is Roman closing the playbook in the second half. The reason the Bills have looked so conservative with a big lead is because they stopped running plays that show too much to future opponents.

[aristocrat]

So the contract talk is up now and I'm wondering do we have the option to franchise tag him? Or can we do a nice bridge contract for say...2 years 20 mil?

[BuffaloHokie13]

So the contract talk is up now and I'm wondering do we have the option to franchise tag him? Or can we do a nice bridge contract for say...2 years 20 mil?

Contract talk? We're 3 games into 2015 and his contract is through 5 days after the 2016 Super Bowl. Assuming he keeps up his performance and isn't injured I'd imagine the team will work on an extension to his existing deal in the offseason, but no sooner.

[PlayoffsPlease]

I think people over think this issue. Teams start the QB they think has the best chance to win during the current season. There really is no way to show that any great QBs had their development hindered by starting early in their career. There certainly are ton's of success stories from Dan Marino through Marcus Mariotta of guys that seemed to be ready from day 1.

The majority of NFL teams has a QB they are "developing" over extended lengths of time. They are well aware that this is a strategy. But the fruits of that strategy are usually guys's like Ryan Mallet, Matt Flynn, Luke McCown, Case Keenum, TJ Yates, or Chase Daniel (or 50 other names you could add going back over the last 5 to 10 years) have been the league "developing" for years and years without ever breaking out into a major starting role. The Patriots are currently "developing" JImmy Garrapolo (like Mallet and Hoyer before him). Tyrod, so far, is the exception to the rule that the vast majority of QBs that are not starting by year 3, are really just not good enough to be starters.

None of know where Tyrod would be today, if he had started for the Raven's the last four years. There is no way to say that sitting was a "positive benefit". We just know he is pretty solid today, so sitting didn't hurt him. All we know for sure is that the Raven's coaches thought Joe Flacco gave them a better chance to win. (Flacco is an example of a guy that led his team to the playoffs his rookie year)

[26CornerBlitz]

So the contract talk is up now and I'm wondering do we have the option to franchise tag him? Or can we do a nice bridge contract for say...2 years 20 mil?

 

Look at Kaepernick w/o Greg Roman and you'll see a major regression. I wouldn't be in any hurry to start talking extension after three games as a starting QB. Let things play out into next season to see where you truly are at QB. Patience is a virtue......See the Ryan Fitzpatrick contract extension for reference.

Edited October 2, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz

[Canadian Bills Fan]

So the contract talk is up now and I'm wondering do we have the option to franchise tag him? Or can we do a nice bridge contract for say...2 years 20 mil?

 

 

Lets wait.

 

I dont want another Fitzpatrick contract type deal

 

 

 

CBF

[Dark]

Interesting topic. I tend to agree with those who say that it is ideal to allow a young QB to ease his way in, but they have to be talented to succeed. Sitting a young QB isn't some magic bullet to make the Aaron Rogers-level good.

 

I think the better question is: can a truly talented QB be "ruined" by starting too quickly in the NFL? That used to be the thinking even in the late 1990s - Steve McNair and Dante Culpepper were both highly drafted players who sat their entire rookie years, for instance. Is it that being rushed lowers the ceiling while sitting for a couple years maximizes a young QBs ceiling? How much does confidence matter if a young QB has the skills? Will skills win out in the long run?

[PlayoffsPlease]

 

 

Lets wait.

 

I dont want another Fitzpatrick contract type deal

 

 

 

CBF

two years at $20 million isn't really fitzpatrick money.

 

On the other hand, Rex has already told us we have the QB of the present and the QB of the future on the roster, so there might not be any reason to keep Tyrod.

Edited October 2, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Lest we forget: Troy aikman started as a rookie and won one game. In today's nfl he'd have been cut.