thebyrdman31 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Here is what Cole had to say, via SB Nation: "This is really fascinating because there are teams that are sitting at the top of the draft, according to executives that I've talked to, who would believe that they would prefer to have Sam Bradford, who's 27 and coming off basically missing the last year and a half of his career -- that they would rather have then take a chance on, say, somebody like Marcus Mariota or Jamies Winston because they have seen what Bradford can do. One caveat to this is: is Bradford healthy or not coming off of two ACL surgeries? But the belief is: take a shot with Bradford and save your first round draft pick and take somebody else." http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/02/nfl_team_prefer_sam_bradford_over_marcus_mariota.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Seems like QBs are getting worse IMO. NFL will have to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting. Would they then be willing to trade the 1st overall pick to StL for Bradford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Seems like QBs are getting worse IMO. NFL will have to adapt. Or this year's class has risks, either off-field (Winston) or just aren't judged as talented enough to take with a top 5 pick (Mariota). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting. Would they then be willing to trade the 1st overall pick to StL for Bradford? i think the point is they feel better with bradford plus the top player in the draft than with marriota/winston plus whatever the savings on a rookie vs bradford would be (say winston and jerry hughes vs bradford and the guy they pick). i didnt read it as theyd rather pay bradford AND use the pick on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 the league has a QB problem in general. Not nearly enough good ones capable of producing at the next level. If you can run the ball at will and have a stout defense you can essentially get by with an average QB. But the teams with the elite QB's will always dominate. As it stand right now 1/3 of the league has above average QB situation, and only a handful have "elite QB's", the rest are desperately trying to find one, and more teams will fail trying to find one then succeed in doing so. Use to be a time where there was always a top QB worthy of drafting, now it seems like more years than not the top QB's are more likely to fail or underwhelm for their draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 would you guys do our 2 for bradford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 the league has a QB problem in general. Not nearly enough good ones capable of producing at the next level. If you can run the ball at will and have a stout defense you can essentially get by with an average QB. But the teams with the elite QB's will always dominate. As it stand right now 1/3 of the league has above average QB situation, and only a handful have "elite QB's", the rest are desperately trying to find one, and more teams will fail trying to find one then succeed in doing so. Use to be a time where there was always a top QB worthy of drafting, now it seems like more years than not the top QB's are more likely to fail or underwhelm for their draft position. Part of that is the combination of 1) the rampant use of Spread and Option offenses in College 2) Players leaving earlier 3) Players expected to play and perform at a high level year 1 on a team with little surrounding talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Or this year's class has risks, either off-field (Winston) or just aren't judged as talented enough to take with a top 5 pick (Mariota). I'm talking franchise guys that can actually throw from the pocket. Maybe 1 guy since 2008? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Just teams dispersing bad info to try and get other teans to take Bradford and give them a shot at Winston or mariotta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) would you guys do our 2 for bradford? Yes. I think that is the point of the article. These teams are saying the would rather take the bpa with their first and trade a later pick for Bradford. IF this trend continues with sub par QB's coming out of college, look for the NFL to start to play with rules to compensate. IN 5 years we will be left with very few great QB's Edited February 9, 2015 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I'm talking franchise guys that can actually throw from the pocket. Maybe 1 guy since 2008? Guys I'd have liked the Bills to pick since 2008: (I know we weren't in the position to take some of them, but that's okay) 2008: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan (though I'd argue he isn't really a franchise QB) 2009: Matt Stafford (same as Matt Ryan) 2012: Andrew Luck 2014: (1 year, jury is obviously still out) David Carr, Teddy Bridgewater Edited February 9, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 the league has a QB problem in general. Not nearly enough good ones capable of producing at the next level. If you can run the ball at will and have a stout defense you can essentially get by with an average QB. But the teams with the elite QB's will always dominate. As it stand right now 1/3 of the league has above average QB situation, and only a handful have "elite QB's", the rest are desperately trying to find one, and more teams will fail trying to find one then succeed in doing so. Use to be a time where there was always a top QB worthy of drafting, now it seems like more years than not the top QB's are more likely to fail or underwhelm for their draft position. This is the problem with the league changing the rules so far in the direction of helping the passing game. They've increased the delta between a good, smart QB and a not so-good/smart QB to astronomical proportions. There is almost no way for a team w/o a good QB to compete at a high level any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Seems like QBs are getting worse IMO. NFL will have to adapt. I created an entire thread on that topic. Hope you contributed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Guys I'd have liked the Bills to pick since 2008: (I know we weren't in the position to take some of them, but that's okay) 2008: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan (though I'd argue he isn't really a franchise QB) 2009: Matt Stafford (same as Matt Ryan) 2012: Andrew Luck 2014: (1 year, jury is obviously still out) David Carr, Teddy Bridgewater I see 1 true franchise QB since 2008. I like Teddy Bridgewater's potential though. Ryan and Flacco the last true franchise QBs. And Luck obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I see 1 true franchise QB since 2008. I like Teddy Bridgewater's potential though. Ryan and Flacco the last true franchise QBs. And Luck obviously. Yeah, Flacco and Luck are definitely the headliners. And goodness, I think I said David instead of Derek Carr LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Here it comes the articles to try and get the top teams to not draft a potential franchise QB. I bet Chip Kelly will pay lots of money for bad mouthing of Mariota so he can hopefully drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Here it comes the articles to try and get the top teams to not draft a potential franchise QB. I bet Chip Kelly will pay lots of money for bad mouthing of Mariota so he can hopefully drop.worked last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Guys I'd have liked the Bills to pick since 2008: (I know we weren't in the position to take some of them, but that's okay) 2008: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan (though I'd argue he isn't really a franchise QB) 2009: Matt Stafford (same as Matt Ryan) 2012: Andrew Luck 2014: (1 year, jury is obviously still out) David Carr, Teddy Bridgewater Interesting. You really wouldn't state Stafford or Ryan are franchise QB's? I think they are both certainly quarterbacks who can be built around and have proved to will their teams to wins. More so, I wouldn't outright say those two aren't and Flacco is. I think they're all on the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting. You really wouldn't state Stafford or Ryan are franchise QB's? I think they are both certainly quarterbacks who can be built around and have proved to will their teams to wins.More so, I wouldn't outright say those two aren't and Flacco is. I think they're all on the same level. Stafford like Culpepper has the most unstoppable receiver in football. I think Stafford is a good QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Stafford like Culpepper has the most unstoppable receiver in football. I think Stafford is a good QB though. Every top QB has a centerpiece target in their offense... Brees - Graham. Peyton - DT/Julius Thomas Brady - Gronk Rodgers - Nelson/Cobb Big Ben - Brown Romo - Dez So on and so forth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Every top QB has a centerpiece target in their offense... Brees - Graham. Peyton - DT/Julius Thomas Brady - Gronk Rodgers - Nelson/Cobb Big Ben - Brown Romo - Dez So on and so forth.... Not like that guy. Stafford still is good. But I put him more in the Jay Cutler class of QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 With Evans & V-Jax in Tampa, I think whoever goes there can be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Interesting. You really wouldn't state Stafford or Ryan are franchise QB's? I think they are both certainly quarterbacks who can be built around and have proved to will their teams to wins. More so, I wouldn't outright say those two aren't and Flacco is. I think they're all on the same level. I don't think Stafford or Ryan are capable of leading their teams to a Super Bowl, Flacco already has. That's really all it comes down to. Matt Ryan gets so much love, but really he's a new age Peyton Manning sans the ring. Maybe it's my experience rooting for VT in college, but I'd take a championship and 4 years of mediocrity well before I'd take 5 years of 13-3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I don't think Stafford or Ryan are capable of leading their teams to a Super Bowl, Flacco already has. That's really all it comes down to. Matt Ryan gets so much love, but really he's a new age Peyton Manning sans the ring. Maybe it's my experience rooting for VT in college, but I'd take a championship and 4 years of mediocrity well before I'd take 5 years of 13-3 seasons. I'm not suggesting either are elite just that they are what a franchise QB is - Someone you can build an offense around. Ryan has been on a team that has never had any reasonable defense yet they've still consistently been in games or won them. I'd take Ryan in a heartbeat. As well as Staffy. Do I think they can lead a team to a SB? Sure, if everything clicks and falls into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Guys I'd have liked the Bills to pick since 2008: (I know we weren't in the position to take some of them, but that's okay) 2008: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan (though I'd argue he isn't really a franchise QB) 2009: Matt Stafford (same as Matt Ryan) 2012: Andrew Luck 2014: (1 year, jury is obviously still out) David Carr, Teddy Bridgewater Bridgewater is the man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'd prefer Bradford for a 3rd or 2nd over either of those for a high 1st too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Here is what Cole had to say, via SB Nation: "This is really fascinating because there are teams that are sitting at the top of the draft, according to executives that I've talked to, who would believe that they would prefer to have Sam Bradford, who's 27 and coming off basically missing the last year and a half of his career -- that they would rather have then take a chance on, say, somebody like Marcus Mariota or Jamies Winston because they have seen what Bradford can do. One caveat to this is: is Bradford healthy or not coming off of two ACL surgeries? But the belief is: take a shot with Bradford and save your first round draft pick and take somebody else." http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/02/nfl_team_prefer_sam_bradford_over_marcus_mariota.html According to Bleacher report NFL Insider Jason Cole? "Take a shot with Bradford and save your first round pick and take somebody else" Well, gee, I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. What, exactly, do they think the Rams are going to want for Bradford? I'd prefer Bradford for a 3rd or 2nd over either of those for a high 1st too What would be St Louis motivation to trade Bradford for a 2nd or 3rd? Open question, want to understand how you see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 According to Bleacher report NFL Insider Jason Cole? "Take a shot with Bradford and save your first round pick and take somebody else" Well, gee, I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. What, exactly, do they think the Rams are going to want for Bradford? What would be St Louis motivation to trade Bradford for a 2nd or 3rd? Open question, want to understand how you see it. Because he's on a one year nearly 17m contract currently. And they might see an opportunity to save 12m and get a guy like foles with that 2-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Here is what Cole had to say, via SB Nation: "This is really fascinating because there are teams that are sitting at the top of the draft, according to executives that I've talked to, who would believe that they would prefer to have Sam Bradford, who's 27 and coming off basically missing the last year and a half of his career -- that they would rather have then take a chance on, say, somebody like Marcus Mariota or Jamies Winston because they have seen what Bradford can do. One caveat to this is: is Bradford healthy or not coming off of two ACL surgeries? But the belief is: take a shot with Bradford and save your first round draft pick and take somebody else." http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2015/02/nfl_team_prefer_sam_bradford_over_marcus_mariota.html They aren't that bad. What has Bradford done that warrants this? I can understand not knowing what a future draft pick can do but at least go with someone who has done something. Since no good QBs are on the market might as well take a shot on these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'd definitely love to see what Roman would do with Mariota at the helm, but that is obviously just a pipe dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Given the focus on running QBs in college, I wonder how many would be QBs opt for baseball due to a lack of running ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sounds like Bradford has Marrone's agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Seems like QBs are getting worse IMO. NFL will have to adapt.Brad Smith will be starting soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 the league has a QB problem in general. Not nearly enough good ones capable of producing at the next level. If you can run the ball at will and have a stout defense you can essentially get by with an average QB. But the teams with the elite QB's will always dominate. As it stand right now 1/3 of the league has above average QB situation, and only a handful have "elite QB's", the rest are desperately trying to find one, and more teams will fail trying to find one then succeed in doing so. Use to be a time where there was always a top QB worthy of drafting, now it seems like more years than not the top QB's are more likely to fail or underwhelm for their draft position. Well said Daryl. It's disturbing that we had the first pick of any qb in the WORLD two years ago, and it looks like there may have not been a single one eligible that year who pans out to be a good nfl qb. I always hear people say the NFL has so much parity now, but it's pretty much the same teams every year, the ones with great qb's. You really have to bottom out AND get lucky on who is coming up from the college ranks that year. We could go another decade or more without getting a good QB if we keep hovering at 500 every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Given the focus on running QBs in college, I wonder how many would be QBs opt for baseball due to a lack of running ability. Yup- the big statue likely goes a different way these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Hmm......Winston for 5.5 million a year for 4 years or Pretzel Knee Bradford for 17 million for another ACL tear.... Yeah, that is a tough one. I could see Tampa or Tenn falling for that... Edited February 10, 2015 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Because he's on a one year nearly 17m contract currently. And they might see an opportunity to save 12m and get a guy like foles with that 2-3 Fair enough. Thanks. In other words, Cap move. Trifling clarification Bradford's 2015 salary is ~$13M. The "dead money" from prorated bonus is $3.6M. So you're on about the amount of money he's costing the Rams, just wanted to clarify the $$ a new team would take on. My view on it is that the Rams face a paradox. Bradford, on his current $13M 1 year deal which makes him a tempting cap casualty, is not alluring enough to draw a 2nd or 3rd round pick from a savvy GM. $13M plus a 2nd or 3rd round pick is a lot to give up for a guy who hasn't played in 1 1/2 years due to a glass knee and who showed flashes, but only flashes, when he did play. OTOH, if the Rams persuade Bradford to renegotiate (which I'm sure they're trying), he would be both more attractive trade bait AND more plausible for the Rams to keep around as having shown more in the NFL than a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Fair enough. Thanks. In other words, Cap move. Trifling clarification Bradford's 2015 salary is ~$13M. The "dead money" from prorated bonus is $3.6M. So you're on about the amount of money he's costing the Rams, just wanted to clarify the $$ a new team would take on. My view on it is that the Rams face a paradox. Bradford, on his current $13M 1 year deal which makes him a tempting cap casualty, is not alluring enough to draw a 2nd or 3rd round pick from a savvy GM. $13M plus a 2nd or 3rd round pick is a lot to give up for a guy who hasn't played in 1 1/2 years due to a glass knee and who showed flashes, but only flashes, when he did play. OTOH, if the Rams persuade Bradford to renegotiate (which I'm sure they're trying), he would be both more attractive trade bait AND more plausible for the Rams to keep around as having shown more in the NFL than a 2nd or 3rd round pick. correct. whether bradford wants to stay in StL, or wants a clean slate elsewhere would play a lot in this. he could easily force their hand and only negotiate with an outside team.... or refuse major negotiation at all, leaving him as big money 1 year or a free agent. it could be a tough spot, or an incredibly easy one, depending on how the two sides view their futures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Part of that is the combination of 1) the rampant use of Spread and Option offenses in College 2) Players leaving earlier 3) Players expected to play and perform at a high level year 1 on a team with little surrounding talent.Can't stress these factors enough, IMO. If an NFL team wants to get the most bang for it's buck in regards to draft picks, they will find ways to implement a spread type offense in the NFL; not as a change of pace, but as a base offense. Entire offensive rosters are under valued or under utilized because coaches are trying to put square pegs in round holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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