Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) That's a very uninformed response. no it's not http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/statistics.htm Edited October 18, 2014 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 no it's not http://www.mercola.c.../statistics.htm Uggghh. That tripe doesn't even rise to the level of pseudoscience. Complete crap. I've been involved in influenza related research for a large part of my career, if you want to do your own influenza research you can't use sites like mercola.com. Use pubmed for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Uggghh. That tripe doesn't even rise to the level of pseudoscience. Complete crap. I've been involved in influenza related research for a large part of my career, if you want to do your own influenza research you can't use sites like mercola.com. Use pubmed for crying out loud. you can fool some of the people all of the time… i never encountered this shyster before. seems he was on the dr oz show - now there's a surprise. here's a hint to barbarian: if an "expert" posts a copy of his medical license on his website http://www.mercola.com/forms/background.htm, he's probably not considered an expert by his colleagues. same for bragging about being a dept head at a largely unknown small hospital. at any rate, this is data cherry picking at it's worst. i don't know how this guy sleeps at night unless he really believe this crap. that would actually be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Uggghh. That tripe doesn't even rise to the level of pseudoscience. Complete crap. I've been involved in influenza related research for a large part of my career, if you want to do your own influenza research you can't use sites like mercola.com. Use pubmed for crying out loud. Understandable. But somebody WILL get harmed. Kinda sucks when it affects you "taking one for the team." Should people be forced to act collectively? The harm is real for the unlucky few. Please don't misconstrue this as me being anti-vaccination. I am not. Hope that nobody ever has to use it, but people WILL. I am sure stuff like this turns people's worlds upside down: http://www.hrsa.gov/...tion/index.html Edited October 18, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Understandable. But somebody WILL get harmed. Kinda sucks when it affects you "taking one for the team." Should people be forced to act collectively? The harm is real for the unlucky few. Please don't misconstrue this as me being anti-vaccination. I am not. Hope that nobody ever has to use it, but people WILL. I am sure stuff like this turns people's worlds upside down: http://www.hrsa.gov/...tion/index.html and a satellite might drop from the sky onto my house today. it's called risk/benefit analysis. the risks are extremely low. the benefits are very high. ever met anyone that had polio as a child? i've met plenty. the next generation won't. it's been almost completely, globally eradicated (except in the few backwater places where idiots actually fight against immunization). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 and a satellite might drop from the sky onto my house today. it's called risk/benefit analysis. the risks are extremely low. the benefits are very high. ever met anyone that had polio as a child? i've met plenty. the next generation won't. it's been almost completely, globally eradicated (except in the few backwater places where idiots actually fight against immunization). Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 and a satellite might drop from the sky onto my house today. it's called risk/benefit analysis. the risks are extremely low. the benefits are very high. ever met anyone that had polio as a child? i've met plenty. the next generation won't. it's been almost completely, globally eradicated (except in the few backwater places where idiots actually fight against immunization). Precisely. I don't have the energy to fight this on here as 'we' do this every year in real time conversations. Carry on birdog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 and a satellite might drop from the sky onto my house today. it's called risk/benefit analysis. the risks are extremely low. the benefits are very high. ever met anyone that had polio as a child? i've met plenty. the next generation won't. it's been almost completely, globally eradicated (except in the few backwater places where idiots actually fight against immunization). It's the typical confusion between individual health care and public health. You don't get a vaccination to keep from getting sick as an individual, you get a vaccination to stop the spread of disease through a population. Vaccinations are a true public health tool, in that they provide a common, non-exclusive outcome regardless of consumption (i.e. everyone's free of vaccinated illnesses). Were I in charge, vaccinations would be mandatory and free, because that's exactly the type of public program the government should be funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to agree with both birddog and Tom at the same time before, but I have a difficult time seeing how anyone with even a modicum of sensibility could see it any other way. while I think it's good for people to be concerned with exactly what it is that they're getting when they receive a vaccination, there's a degree of associated paranoia that appears to be being spread by a handful of celebrities and 'professionals' of questionable pedigree. my parents' generation were at a much greater risk of contracting life-threatening or crippling maladies that my own generation never had to worry about, due completely to the introduction of vaccines that we, as a class, would line up outside the school nurse's office to receive. flu shots are different. I went for years without receiving one, and I would only catch the seasonal flu once every 3 or 4 years or so. I only began getting them last year, so I can't say one way or another if I'm getting any benefit or not. the flu shot I received last weekend protects against 5 different strains of influenza, so I feel pretty good about my chances of not coming down with it this year. as we get older, we develop other health concerns....some from our lifestyles, some from genetics. I'm not as indestructible as I used to be, so it only seemed like good sense to get a flu shot. my friends that have children get sick all the damn time. one of their kids brings the latest bug du jour home from school, and it gets passed to everyone else in the house. they sometimes catch the same bug twice in the same 'cycle', because school children are constantly passing it back & forth. I believe (but am not certain) that both the flu and the common cold can be passed while the carrier isn't showing any symptoms yet, which makes it even more easy to catch. I'm usually the last person to say that I support new government-funded programs and mandates, but having people line up for free flu shots sounds like a good idea and a good investment to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As a dude who walks around with an artificially compromised immune system, I appreciate all those who get their shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As a dude who walks around with an artificially compromised immune system, I appreciate all those who get their shots. I'm right there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) and a satellite might drop from the sky onto my house today. it's called risk/benefit analysis. the risks are extremely low. the benefits are very high. ever met anyone that had polio as a child? i've met plenty. the next generation won't. it's been almost completely, globally eradicated (except in the few backwater places where idiots actually fight against immunization). Yes. You are right. I am a bit younger, I did know one person who had polio. They got off pretty easy with just athropy (sp) in one leg. NOW the only incidents of polio today in the US come from the vaccine... It will never truly be wiped out 100%. As few as they are, you will get cases from the vaccine. Again, I agree with you... BUT try telling somebody that after they have been harmed. It's an individual tragedy, collateral damage. You have to agree, emphasis is on to not think collectively and big nasty gubmint is bad! You will get me to fall in line, how are you going to get the others? Do you think parents today would have their children lined up like they did for the polio vaccine as they did during the 1950's. In some regard, we all ask too many questions and know too many answers. It's the typical confusion between individual health care and public health. You don't get a vaccination to keep from getting sick as an individual, you get a vaccination to stop the spread of disease through a population. Vaccinations are a true public health tool, in that they provide a common, non-exclusive outcome regardless of consumption (i.e. everyone's free of vaccinated illnesses). Were I in charge, vaccinations would be mandatory and free, because that's exactly the type of public program the government should be funding. Exactly. So true. How are you going to get people to stop thinking of their damn selves? But... Even in the military you have people washing out because they don't want to take a vaccine, like say anthrax. How do you propose in this day in age to enforce mandatory vaccinations? And yes, I am playing a lot of devil's advocate here. I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to agree with both birddog and Tom at the same time before, but I have a difficult time seeing how anyone with even a modicum of sensibility could see it any other way. while I think it's good for people to be concerned with exactly what it is that they're getting when they receive a vaccination, there's a degree of associated paranoia that appears to be being spread by a handful of celebrities and 'professionals' of questionable pedigree. my parents' generation were at a much greater risk of contracting life-threatening or crippling maladies that my own generation never had to worry about, due completely to the introduction of vaccines that we, as a class, would line up outside the school nurse's office to receive. flu shots are different. I went for years without receiving one, and I would only catch the seasonal flu once every 3 or 4 years or so. I only began getting them last year, so I can't say one way or another if I'm getting any benefit or not. the flu shot I received last weekend protects against 5 different strains of influenza, so I feel pretty good about my chances of not coming down with it this year. as we get older, we develop other health concerns....some from our lifestyles, some from genetics. I'm not as indestructible as I used to be, so it only seemed like good sense to get a flu shot. my friends that have children get sick all the damn time. one of their kids brings the latest bug du jour home from school, and it gets passed to everyone else in the house. they sometimes catch the same bug twice in the same 'cycle', because school children are constantly passing it back & forth. I believe (but am not certain) that both the flu and the common cold can be passed while the carrier isn't showing any symptoms yet, which makes it even more easy to catch. I'm usually the last person to say that I support new government-funded programs and mandates, but having people line up for free flu shots sounds like a good idea and a good investment to me. To comment on what you said... I agree, you make great points. But, how the hell are you going to get people to line up like they did in the 1950's? Even if it is free... A lot of flu shots are free they give out. Our culture simply works against it. Edited October 18, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 To comment on what you said... I agree, you make great points. But, how the hell are you going to get people to line up like they did in the 1950's? Even if it is free... A lot of flu shots are free they give out. Our culture simply works against it. you're right, you can't make people do it, and if I sounded like I believe people should actually be forced to be immunized, then I didn't mean to. I do support birddog's stand on taking preventive measures via inoculation, and despite my libertarian leanings, I see value in free flu shots for anyone who wants them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As a dude who walks around with an artificially compromised immune system, I appreciate all those who get their shots. I'm right there with you. Three's a crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 you're right, you can't make people do it, and if I sounded like I believe people should actually be forced to be immunized, then I didn't mean to. I do support birddog's stand on taking preventive measures via inoculation, and despite my libertarian leanings, I see value in free flu shots for anyone who wants them. Fair enough. I also stand by offering free shots, worthwhile investment. I just wonder if the drug companies see value in soley dealing with the gov't, not individuals and businesses. When it comes to making money, flu shots have to be one of the few areas in healthcare that's right side up. ?? And for the people who have the satellite fall from the sky and hit them? Take care of them for life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Fair enough. I also stand by offering free shots, worthwhile investment. I just wonder if the drug companies see value in soley dealing with the gov't, not individuals and businesses. When it comes to making money, flu shots have to be one of the few areas in healthcare that's right side up. ?? And for the people who have the satellite fall from the sky and hit them? Take care of them for life? The vaccination market is a mess, because there's very limited upside and virtually unlimited downside. You might think it's because of dolts like Jenny McCarthy...but it actually goes back to swine flu and Guillainn-Barre in '76-77. Even a hypothetical Ebola vaccine would be a circus here. If they had one available right now, I'd be anticipating James Sokolove running one of his obnoxious "Injured? Class action! Free money!" commercials on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Even a hypothetical Ebola vaccine would be a circus here. That is what I was milling over. Could we ever handle an epidemic now anywhere near the way we handled polio? Of course the answer is: No. Without even digging through the facts, let's not even go there with polio. Ebola would be a total circus like you said. Who wants to be collateral damage? How do we get people to "buy in" and think collectively when its been hammered into their heads the last 30+ years that thinking collectively is bad. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Everybody be just good little soldiers and do what you are told. Well, the trust has been thrown out the window. Edited October 19, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 It's the typical confusion between individual health care and public health. You don't get a vaccination to keep from getting sick as an individual, you get a vaccination to stop the spread of disease through a population. Vaccinations are a true public health tool, in that they provide a common, non-exclusive outcome regardless of consumption (i.e. everyone's free of vaccinated illnesses). Were I in charge, vaccinations would be mandatory and free, because that's exactly the type of public program the government should be funding. Thank God you're not in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 That is what I was milling over. Could we ever handle an epidemic now anywhere near the way we handled polio? Of course the answer is: No. Without even digging through the facts, let's not even go there with polio. Ebola would be a total circus like you said. Who wants to be collateral damage? How do we get people to "buy in" and think collectively when its been hammered into their heads the last 30+ years that thinking collectively is bad. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Everybody be just good little soldiers and do what you are told. Well, the trust has been thrown out the window. sure we could. a good samaritan law like that in effect for cpr would do the trick and would be totally appropriate imo. mandatory vaccination is a no go. but we could certainly have the more intelligent pop culture icons working to help change opinions. find some handsome, mcdreamy, real life doc's that aren't dr oz as spokespeople as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 That is what I was milling over. Could we ever handle an epidemic now anywhere near the way we handled polio? Of course the answer is: No. Without even digging through the facts, let's not even go there with polio. Ebola would be a total circus like you said. Who wants to be collateral damage? We can't even handle measles the way we once handled measles. Measles was eliminated from the US 14 years ago. This year is seeing the worst epidemic of measles in the US since the mid-90s, by a wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 sure we could. a good samaritan law like that in effect for cpr would do the trick and would be totally appropriate imo. mandatory vaccination is a no go. but we could certainly have the more intelligent pop culture icons working to help change opinions. find some handsome, mcdreamy, real life doc's that aren't dr oz as spokespeople as well. I am not sure what to believe. In the late 1950's polio outbreak, did mandatory vaccination really spike new cases 700%? We are armed with so much information, if we ever have major outbreaks how will it be managed. Facts and the information change opinions. Again, everybody wants the herd to protect them... But nobody wants to take the risk for the herd. It's the modern mindset. Well off people can just ride away and isolate themselves from the herd... Like they did during The Plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 sure we could. a good samaritan law like that in effect for cpr would do the trick and would be totally appropriate imo. Tried that in '76, indemnifying vaccine manufactures against liability for the flu vaccine. It failed miserably. Tried to reform the situation in '86 with the Vaccine Act, that failed miserably as well (the resulting "Vaccine Court' is pretty much a joke). The Supreme Court just heard a case three years ago that resulted in the Vaccine Court's decisions being reigned in slightly - vaccine manufactures can't be held liable for "manufacturing defects" any more. They can, however, still be held liable for any other side-effects of a vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) We can't even handle measles the way we once handled measles. Measles was eliminated from the US 14 years ago. This year is seeing the worst epidemic of measles in the US since the mid-90s, by a wide margin. Are we falling below the herd immunity %'s? Too many parents opting out? I know you want mandatory... But how in the heck will that go over? Edited October 19, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 a little retrospective vaccine history appropriate to the topic: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/28/359632703/jonas-salks-polio-vaccine-trials-would-be-hard-to-repeat-today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 a little retrospective vaccine history appropriate to the topic: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/28/359632703/jonas-salks-polio-vaccine-trials-would-be-hard-to-repeat-today I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." I have been giving this lots of thougnt lately. How many parents would line their kid up today like they did to get polio shots. We have been "polio free" in this country since 1994. Othere countries that still have issues, they do get cases of polio from the vaccine. Do we know too much now? Are we "too informed." Gotta think collectively. Just give your little baby shots and pray that they aren't the one of 10,000 (or whatever the harm numbers are). It's worth the risk for them and all. But, when somebody gets zapped... Will the herd be there for them? Damn right they should be! I wonder how the harm was handled in Salk's day? There had to be people harmed. They probably didn't even know. Ignorance is bliss. Suck it up and take one for "the team." This doesn't mean I am not w/you Bird... I am fully behind what you on this. BTW... I know lots of people from this era (Boomers) and I only have met one person that had Polio. He had not too severe athropy in his right leg. I am not downplaying the numbers... The vaccine is a miracle. But in this day and age of Gov't=Bad, everybody thinking of their own self-interest... How would these trials play out on Main Street today? I understand wild polio was different, it could be everywhere. Who would want to even go swimming in a public pool? Then you look @ things like advance in sanitation, etc... Through the 20th century children were just living better and better, cleaner and cleaner and just not exposed to to it. Unintended consequences of an advancing society? YOU BET! The vaccine saved us all. There's a lot to think about know. Maybe stuff we really shouldn't be thinking about. Where do we line up our babies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." Not even that, so much as people had much, much more experience with these diseases back then, and had a very personal understanding of the benefits of vaccination. My parents lost three siblings (that I know of) to preventable childhood diseases when they were young; I'm sure my grandparents and my parents greatly appreciated the development of vaccinations. My generation...never really knew polio, pertussis, mumps, measles, etc., so our appreciation is more theoretical, hence more ambiguous. That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I got a call from a funny accented woman yesterday out of the blue asking if I was going be coming to get a flu shot. I listened and thought it was maybe some sort of scam but she said I could come down to the local store and get a shot, even named the location - off 311 at gum tree road. I amazed that there is enough money there to make it worth Rite Aid's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I've been lazy about the flu shot over my life time. Been lucky in that I never get the flu, but I'm pretty sure I've given it to others... Getting it this year, after I've been educated by multiple folks the necessity in creating a safer environment for those with weakened immune systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Got mine this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I was thinking this all along. I hinted earlier in the thread. People really thought more collectively years ago, especially the "Greatest Generation." I have been giving this lots of thougnt lately. How many parents would line their kid up today like they did to get polio shots. We have been "polio free" in this country since 1994. Othere countries that still have issues, they do get cases of polio from the vaccine. Do we know too much now? Are we "too informed." Gotta think collectively. Just give your little baby shots and pray that they aren't the one of 10,000 (or whatever the harm numbers are). It's worth the risk for them and all. But, when somebody gets zapped... Will the herd be there for them? Damn right they should be! I wonder how the harm was handled in Salk's day? There had to be people harmed. They probably didn't even know. Ignorance is bliss. Suck it up and take one for "the team." This doesn't mean I am not w/you Bird... I am fully behind what you on this. BTW... I know lots of people from this era (Boomers) and I only have met one person that had Polio. He had not too severe athropy in his right leg. I am not downplaying the numbers... The vaccine is a miracle. But in this day and age of Gov't=Bad, everybody thinking of their own self-interest... How would these trials play out on Main Street today? I understand wild polio was different, it could be everywhere. Who would want to even go swimming in a public pool? Then you look @ things like advance in sanitation, etc... Through the 20th century children were just living better and better, cleaner and cleaner and just not exposed to to it. Unintended consequences of an advancing society? YOU BET! The vaccine saved us all. There's a lot to think about know. Maybe stuff we really shouldn't be thinking about. Where do we line up our babies? misinformation is part of the problem here. we need reasonable estimates in order to formulate cost/benefit analyses. the estimated incidence of vaccine associated paralytic polio was about 1 in 24 million, not 10,000. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/polio. and that was before live virus vaccine administration was stopped. therefore, it's unlikely that any of the kids in the initial trial were paralyzed from the vaccine (salk vaccine was not live). and the last case of paralytic polio in the us was in 1979. it's easier to think collectively if the actual extremely small risk of vaccination is known by the general population. unfortunately, the fear mongers have done a better job at spreading their message than the public heath folks. it always amazes me when people choose to believe the quack of the month on tv or the internet without ever looking at their credentials over almost any other source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It always amazes me when people choose to believe the quack of the month on tv or the internet without ever looking at their credentials over almost any other source. I'll bet you're a real fan of Dr. Oz, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm getting over the flu right now. Started Friday or Saturday, got really bad Sunday afternoon into Tuesday. I'm still a little under the weather with a nasty sore throat but I'm on the mend I hardly ever get sick and haven't been this sick in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not even that, so much as people had much, much more experience with these diseases back then, and had a very personal understanding of the benefits of vaccination. My parents lost three siblings (that I know of) to preventable childhood diseases when they were young; I'm sure my grandparents and my parents greatly appreciated the development of vaccinations. My generation...never really knew polio, pertussis, mumps, measles, etc., so our appreciation is more theoretical, hence more ambiguous. That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases. Great point! I didn't really look @ it that way. My aunt (father's older sister) had whooping cough.(pertusis). Heck my first boss here in Illinois was said to have had it (same generation)... Messed up his eyes badly (crossed) that he later had them corrected (to an extent). Side note: One of the old-timers had an old picture of him and basically black-mailed him that he would show others... LMAO! That's one way to score points with the boss (or maybe not!)... Guess what's making a little comeback, pertusis. I guess it is all about way the risks that people see as real and then weighing those risks. Do we really need sh*t to make a comeback before people get their head's out of the arses? I hope not. I'm getting over the flu right now. Started Friday or Saturday, got really bad Sunday afternoon into Tuesday. I'm still a little under the weather with a nasty sore throat but I'm on the mend I hardly ever get sick and haven't been this sick in years. Did you get the shot last Wednesday? ;-P I jest... Just kidding, hope you feel better. Like I said... I am just so scared to get the shot. I know my last RA flare-up was caused by the flu. Lasted well over a year. I am scared to inject anything flu related into my body. I would do anything, even risk getting it the wild again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 http://shotbyshot.org Is a good website for some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The only time in the past 20 years I didn't get the flu shot was the only time in the past 20 years that I got the flu. Got my shot a couple weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) "The authors of the study admitted a bias going into the study," she continued. "Here was the history as described to me: Public health experts long assumed flu shots were effective in the elderly. But, paradoxically, all the studies done failed to demonstrate a benefit. Instead of considering that they, the experts, could be wrong–instead of believing the scientific data–the public health experts assumed the studies were wrong. After all, flu shots have to work, right?" As a result, the National Institutes of Health began a study they were sure would be the definitive answer, and would prove flu shots helped the elderly. But at the end, the data came to the same conclusion: "The death rate had increased markedly since widespread flu vaccination among older Americans," Attkisson wrote. Attkisson investigated on her own and discovered that many studies from all over the world come to the same conclusion, but are mostly ignored. Why? "Too much money being made promoting flu shots?" she asks. " http://www.newsmaxhe...kt_nbr=wwp47ymg Edited November 4, 2014 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I'll bet you're a real fan of Dr. Oz, then. But Dr Oz said..... So, I shared my flu shot experience here, but I thought I'd add this little kicker. I saw my doctor again today and mentioned I got the flu several days after getting my shot. Now, keep in mind the shot was pretty much the default option ("You're getting a flu shot, right?") though I could have refused. Anyway, today my Dr. responds to my story of getting the post-shot flu. "That's why I never get one." Edited November 4, 2014 by The Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 That's why Jenny McCarthy's campaign is so successful. Autism is a much more "real" threat to most parents these days than preventable childhood diseases. I can think of two reasons why her campaign is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Just got back from Walgreens for both chitlen's vaccines. I had mine a few weeks ago at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 "The authors of the study admitted a bias going into the study," she continued. "Here was the history as described to me: Public health experts long assumed flu shots were effective in the elderly. But, paradoxically, all the studies done failed to demonstrate a benefit. Instead of considering that they, the experts, could be wrong–instead of believing the scientific data–the public health experts assumed the studies were wrong. After all, flu shots have to work, right?" As a result, the National Institutes of Health began a study they were sure would be the definitive answer, and would prove flu shots helped the elderly. But at the end, the data came to the same conclusion: "The death rate had increased markedly since widespread flu vaccination among older Americans," Attkisson wrote. Attkisson investigated on her own and discovered that many studies from all over the world come to the same conclusion, but are mostly ignored. Why? "Too much money being made promoting flu shots?" she asks. " http://www.newsmaxhe...kt_nbr=wwp47ymg Again, if you want to research the influenza vaccine google is your enemy and pubmed is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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