taglientep Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I tried searching for this and didnt see anything. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/texas-am-threatens-lawsuit-against-bills-fans-website-20140701 Seriously A&M and this is putting you in a good light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 By extension, shouldn't they also be suing the Bills for putting up the 12th Man on the Wall of Fame? I'd like to see them try that one and see if the trademark holds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taglientep Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Just angers me how T A&M can go after a small website that isnt profiting off of a name, they change it and it still isnt good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 A&M is a joke. They are little man syndrome. They did this same thing to Seattle last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saundena Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I live in Houston and many MANY of the A&M folks I've met are honestly mouthbreathers; so this comes as no surprise. I better be careful though, they may have trademarked "Mouthbreather" Also, how would this hold up in court if there is no financial or commercial harm coming to A&M.... and if The 12th Man can be trademarked, why can't Quarterback, pigskin, gridiron, etc all be trademarked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Arizona is suing a small high school in our area (Appomattox High School) because it says the HS is using its "A." D1 schools are pretty fierce about TM protection. Link: http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/article_65d557d0-6502-11e3-8a18-0019bb30f31a.html?TNNoMobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I live in Houston and many MANY of the A&M folks I've met are honestly mouthbreathers; so this comes as no surprise. I better be careful though, they may have trademarked "Mouthbreather" Also, how would this hold up in court if there is no financial or commercial harm coming to A&M.... and if The 12th Man can be trademarked, why can't Quarterback, pigskin, gridiron, etc all be trademarked. They probably are. Hell, redskins was trademarks. I should see about getting my TM for Pollock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Don't blame A&M, blame the asinine trademark laws that allow "The 12th Man", or "Threepeat" or a host of other such nonsense to be trademarked. But since A&M has the trademark, they have to pursue cases like this to keep it. That's how it works. But that aside, any sympathy for this guy goes out the window when he starts using his handicap as a reason why A&M shouldn't enforce it's rights. I thought people with handicaps wanted to be treated just like everyone else? I'm not buying that he could create this whole site yet now suddenly it's an unmanageable burden to change it. Edited July 2, 2014 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Unfortunately, Texas A&M has to defend their trademark or they risk losing it. Not that it should even be a trademark anymore, since it's become a genercized football term. No one outside of Texas could even tell you the 12th man was even an A&M thing. Don't blame A&M, blame the asinine trademark laws that allow "The 12th Man", or "Threepeat" or a host of other such nonsense to be trademarked. But since A&M has the trademark, they have to pursue cases like this to keep it. That's how it works. But that aside, any sympathy for this guy goes out the window when he starts using his handicap as a reason why A&M shouldn't enforce it's rights. I thought people with handicaps wanted to be treated just like everyone else? I'm not buying that he could create this whole site yet now suddenly it's an unmanageable burden to change it. If this guy had enough money for an extended suit he could attack the trademark itself saying it has become a common football term. That's how words like zipper and aspirin lost their trademarks. It sounds like this guy is in no shape to fight A&M in a court, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Buncha Texas cornpones... This kid better comply. Defending a lawsuit will cost him an arm and a leg. (God help me..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Pollock. You want to trademark a fish? It's POLOCK. Get the slur right, ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Buncha Texas cornpones... This kid better comply. Defending a lawsuit will cost him an arm and a leg. (God help me..) There's a special place in hell for people like you filled with pedophiles and people that talk during movies. I did get a chuckle though. You want to trademark a fish? It's POLOCK. Get the slur right, ffs. On my phone. Auto corrected but fitting in a sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taglientep Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Doesnt the Seattle Seahwks have the 12th man too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saundena Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Don't blame A&M, blame the asinine trademark laws that allow "The 12th Man", or "Threepeat" or a host of other such nonsense to be trademarked. But since A&M has the trademark, they have to pursue cases like this to keep it. That's how it works. But that aside, any sympathy for this guy goes out the window when he starts using his handicap as a reason why A&M shouldn't enforce it's rights. I thought people with handicaps wanted to be treated just like everyone else? I'm not buying that he could create this whole site yet now suddenly it's an unmanageable burden to change it. In no way is his use of the 12th man impacting A&M's bottom line. It's not as if UT is using the "12th Man" as the name of a new section of seats or a restaurant in their stadium... And further to your remark about protect it or lose it; if A&M really wanted to, they could grant him rights for a nominal fee seeing as how this particular Bills fan is using the 12th man in a way which would not cause any financial loss to A&M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 In no way is his use of the 12th man impacting A&M's bottom line. It's not as if UT is using the "12th Man" as the name of a new section of seats or a restaurant in their stadium... And further to your remark about protect it or lose it; if A&M really wanted to, they could grant him rights for a nominal fee seeing as how this particular Bills fan is using the 12th man in a way which would not cause any financial loss to A&M Not sure what you mean by "impacting their bottom line". If they don't protect their trademark, they could eventually lose it. And while I don't have access to A&M's financials and business plans, I would think that losing their trademark would have some financial impact. Few organizations hand out rights to use their trademark (in exchange for nothing) to random people. Kinda makes having a trademark meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 By extension, shouldn't they also be suing the Bills for putting up the 12th Man on the Wall of Fame? I'd like to see them try that one and see if the trademark holds up. Doesnt the Seattle Seahwks have the 12th man too? From the article.... Hinckley said Texas A&M, which has owned the trademark since 1922, only allows the Bills and Seattle Seahawks to pay licensing fees to use the phrase "the 12th man," and under very specific conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Buncha Texas cornpones... This kid better comply. Defending a lawsuit will cost him an arm and a leg. (God help me..) Really? When you come to a Bills game I'll introduce you to Chuck. Everyone knows him and you should too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taglientep Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I hope I do get to meet Chuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Check out Erie County Comptroller's response letter to Texas A&M: http://www.scribd.com/doc/232306329/Mychajliw-s-got-Bills-fan-s-back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Really? When you come to a Bills game I'll introduce you to Chuck. Everyone knows him and you should too. Nothing personal. Just a shakey pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo39416 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Check out Erie County Comptroller's response letter to Texas A&M: http://www.scribd.co...ills-fan-s-back Wow - that is a ballsy letter to write. Good for him. In a fair fight, this is a lawsuit that would be a toss-up at best. The term 12th man has become part of the common vernacular that is used on a day to day basis to describe loyal fan bases. However, this is an issue of a School with a 5 billion dollar endowment bullying trying to beat up on someone who cant pay to fight. If this isn't a case of a generic trademark, then I don't know what is. Edited July 2, 2014 by jo39416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Arizona is suing a small high school in our area (Appomattox High School) because it says the HS is using its "A." D1 schools are pretty fierce about TM protection. Link: http://www.newsadvan...html?TNNoMobile Apparently Howard isn't D1? They claim we stole it from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Alternatives: - "One more than the 11th Man" - "One less than the 13th Man" - "The 12th Non-Gender Specific Person" - "The 12th Player, Not Actually on the Field, which would be a Penalty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I tried searching for this and didnt see anything. http://www.buffalone...ebsite-20140701 Seriously A&M and this is putting you in a good light? That is some low blow BS right there, are they going to Seattle too? ridiculous :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo39416 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 That is some low blow BS right there, are they going to Seattle too? ridiculous :thumbdown: I read that Seahawks and Bills pay something like 5k/year to avoid all out lawsuit, which would likely cost significantly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) What we really need here are some Aggie jokes . . . What is the difference between an Aggie and a carp? One is a bottom feeding scum sucker and the other is a fish. Did you hear about the Aggie terrorist who tried to blow up the Longhorn team bus. He burned his lip on the tailpipe. How many Aggies does it take to screw in a light bulb? One, but he gets 3 hours credit. What is the difference between the Aggies and Rice Crispies? Rice Crispies know what to do in a bowl. (One with a little Bills flavor to it) Where was O.J. hiding right before the famous white Bronco Chase? On the A&M campus, because that's the last place you'll find a football player. Did you hear about the skeleton they found in a closet in one of the dorms at A&M? It was the 1963 hide-and-go-seek champion! Did you hear about the Aggie who won a gold medal at the Olympics? He liked it so much that he decided to get it bronzed. Why did the Aggie get fired from the M&M plant as a quality control inspector? He kept throwing out all the W&W's! Have you heard about the Aggie kamikaze pilot? He flew 22 missions. Edited July 2, 2014 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) If the Redskins can't trademark redskins then how come you can trade mark something as common as the 12th man? Edited July 2, 2014 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Y'all will enjoy the postings on the Texas A&M Facebook Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Don't blame A&M, blame the asinine trademark laws that allow "The 12th Man", or "Threepeat" or a host of other such nonsense to be trademarked. But since A&M has the trademark, they have to pursue cases like this to keep it. That's how it works. But that aside, any sympathy for this guy goes out the window when he starts using his handicap as a reason why A&M shouldn't enforce it's rights. I thought people with handicaps wanted to be treated just like everyone else? I'm not buying that he could create this whole site yet now suddenly it's an unmanageable burden to change it. He never said it was an unmanageable burden to change it, only that he could not comply in the time A&M wanted him to. Totally different. And who knows how long it took him to setup. You all should check out the comments section of the Buffalo News. It appears that a bunch of A&M grads or employees are trolling there in support of their overly-aggressive enforcement of the trademark. It's fine for them to enforce the trademark, but to use bully-tactics because someone cannot comply fast enough when the Trademark law has no express statute of limitations is armature hour. And terrible publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) He never said it was an unmanageable burden to change it, only that he could not comply in the time A&M wanted him to. Totally different. And who knows how long it took him to setup. to be fair he said that it takes a long time to change the name of a facebook group in one of the quotes. even if he lost his internet access and was using his phone, i dont believe thats a lengthy process. in fact i think you click on the group - click options- edit group settings - and then just type a new name. this post took longer. i can get the argument that it was tough to track down all the flyers and such but the facebook one made me feel like he was probably atleast partly culpable in this escalation. We’ve tried to do it as quickly as possible, but it’s hard to change a group name on Facebook,” he said. “It’s very time-consuming.” Edited July 2, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 (edited) Wow - that is a ballsy letter to write. Good for him. In a fair fight, this is a lawsuit that would be a toss-up at best. The term 12th man has become part of the common vernacular that is used on a day to day basis to describe loyal fan bases. However, this is an issue of a School with a 5 billion dollar endowment bullying trying to beat up on someone who cant pay to fight. If this isn't a case of a generic trademark, then I don't know what is. I would not be surprised if a lawyer stepped up and provided some legal services. Edited July 2, 2014 by Hammered a Lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaskerTough Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Unfortunately, Texas A&M has to defend their trademark or they risk losing it. Not that it should even be a trademark anymore, since it's become a genercized football term. No one outside of Texas could even tell you the 12th man was even an A&M thing. My 2 cents (as a trademark attorney), Texas A&M has the right to send C&Ds, and act like a dick till the cows come home..... but actually filing a suit puts their shaky, old, increasingly weakening mark into the spotlight. The name of the game isn't "PROTECTING" - it's using and obtaining a clear identity in the eyes of the consumer. You state the problem in your analysis, no one relates Texas A&M to the 12th man outside of Texas. By your assessment, no one sees the cripple's website and thinks "oh Texas A&M is sponsoring the Buffalo Bills bid to stay in the rust belt.. that's nice" - thus, no consumer confusion and a very weak case. If Texas A&M wants the mark on a national level - they'd be way better off running a few national ad campaigns. Suing people with no hands or feet (Juries, bro), in far off locations (which already have a licensed tie to the phrase, see: the stadium wall, thus the consumer audience being catered too has even less of a chance of being confused)........ might get their registration cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaskerTough Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Also, that letter from the comptroller is embarrassing, small-town hokey, aw'shucks ignorant. Ya don't have to wheel (pun) a guy out like that, when you could just as easily, and more effectively, have a lawyer reply with a pithy lil !@#$ you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm annoyed by how that story is trying to make A&M look even worse since they are going after a double amputee cancer survivor. If they feel the need to protect their trademark, his health status should not play into it one bit. It's a shameful tactic to use that to make A&M look bad. His situation sucks, but he should still be treated just like anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Some interesting documentation over the term "America's Team", which some Bills Fans are also trying to use... http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Sport+slogans+and+trademark+law%3A+are+the+Dallas+Cowboys+really...-a0323258620 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo39416 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2494121&forum_id=5 In case you want to get a bit wound up... Also, that letter from the comptroller is embarrassing, small-town hokey, aw'shucks ignorant. Ya don't have to wheel (pun) a guy out like that, when you could just as easily, and more effectively, have a lawyer reply with a pithy lil !@#$ you. While I agree with your first post - I disagree with this point.. I think the entire reason for the letter is to make as much public outcry regarding this issue as possible. With all of the pub - playing off your initial post, would not be surprised to see some sort of minimum consideration be issued for use of the TM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 He never said it was an unmanageable burden to change it, only that he could not comply in the time A&M wanted him to. Totally different. And who knows how long it took him to setup. You all should check out the comments section of the Buffalo News. It appears that a bunch of A&M grads or employees are trolling there in support of their overly-aggressive enforcement of the trademark. It's fine for them to enforce the trademark, but to use bully-tactics because someone cannot comply fast enough when the Trademark law has no express statute of limitations is armature hour. And terrible publicity. The articled implies A&M has been requesting compliance for a while and not getting a satisfactory response. It also says there are 3 other people involved in the website, not just Sonntag. Hence the suggestion they may be using his disability as an excuse to drag their feet. Sorry I'm not jumping on board with the local mob to crucify A&M. As I said, I think the trademark is absurd, but as it's been granted so I'm not going to demonize an organization for protecting its rights, no matter what that inflammatory article wants me to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Syracuse University held a "12th Man Rally" a couple years ago before playing Pittsburgh http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/10/live_from_armory_square_sus_12.html And there's another Facebook 12th Man page for Utica college https://www.facebook.com/UticaCollegeFootball12thManClub Other 12th Man FB pages https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=12th%20man&sid=0.6887267106321117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Syracuse University held a "12th Man Rally" a couple years ago before playing Pittsburgh http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/10/live_from_armory_square_sus_12.html And there's another Facebook 12th Man page for Utica college https://www.facebook.com/UticaCollegeFootball12thManClub Other 12th Man FB pages https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=12th%20man&sid=0.6887267106321117 Hopefully they have easy Internet access to change the name if asked. The articled implies A&M has been requesting compliance for a while and not getting a satisfactory response. It also says there are 3 other people involved in the website, not just Sonntag. Hence the suggestion they may be using his disability as an excuse to drag their feet. Sorry I'm not jumping on board with the local mob to crucify A&M. As I said, I think the trademark is absurd, but as it's been granted so I'm not going to demonize an organization for protecting its rights, no matter what that inflammatory article wants me to believe. As an initial "I surely don't know the full story" gut reaction, I pretty much 100% agree with that initial assessment. Ridiculous trademark, but the other sides arguments bother me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 From the article.... Hinckley said Texas A&M, which has owned the trademark since 1922, only allows the Bills and Seattle Seahawks to pay licensing fees to use the phrase "the 12th man," and under very specific conditions. Reading is fundamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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