NFL getting "hoggy" according to Mark Cuban

[stevewin]

The NFL will completely jump the shark for me if they put a team in Mexico or Europe. That will be the beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned.

[purple haze]

My biggest issue is that the NFL can't leave well enough alone. Granted, I am a traditionalist, but every time I see something new it just raises the question, "why?" Why did Nike have to come in and put those preposterous white collars on the jerseys? Why are they trying to eliminate the kickoff from the game? Why can't they just leave the extra point alone? Why do they have to add more playoff teams? Why the incessant Thursday night games? Why again is Nike trying to get teams to move to the futuristic uniforms? When you read any article about the new Bucs uniforms, literally 100% of the people commenting thought that their new jerseys looked ridiculous. Same with the whole moving the kickoff to the 40- everyone is against it. Who are they trying to appease with this stuff? Man I miss sports from when I grew up in the 80's and 90's.

 

Amen and Amen! The NFL is going too far and they will regret it at some point. Monday Night Football and Thursday night games used to be special events. Now they are just one more game on the schedule. And don't get me started on the rules handicapping defense. It's pitiful. I still love NFL ball, but not as much as I used to. Greed isn't good.

[Mark Vader]

Metz, you know the answers to all those questions. The rule changes are to give the perception that the league is really concerned about player safety (rather than impending and continuing law-suits), and the other stuff is all about selling merchendise.

 

I think Cuban is right. As an NBA owner, he is obviously concerned with the NFL's seeming obessession with having football every night of the week. The NBA has carved out a nice niche for itself in the pro-sports world, and the NFL is obviously threatening that. But, I will be honest. Unless the Bills are playing, I have no real interest in Thursday Night football. I am starting to lose interest in Monday Night Football as well, unless it is the Bills. What used to make the NFL so awesome, in part, was that it was so limited...one day a week, and one game on Monday night. Now, everything is so constant and so accessible, it is taking some lustre off the game.

I completely agree with you, Buftex.

 

I absolutely love the game of football, and I always will. Having said that, the way the game is being presented to us with having it on 3 times a week, brings the excitement levels down. I remember the anticipation that would build for a week, bringing the anticipation for the games to a high level. Now the anticipation has somewhat dulled.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'd love to see Cuban buy the Bills, actually. He's a Pittsburgh by by birth.

[MikeSpeed]

I can see the NFL losing popularity, but I highly doubt it will lose out to the NBA. Granted I've only lived to 2 parts of the country, but both of those areas have little to no interest in basketball. I travel a lot and I pay attention to other people's conversation on planes and I've heard countless conversations about the NFL, and some about baseball. I can't remember any about the NBA. I've heard some regarding March madness, that's about it. It all sounds like sour grapes to me.

[RyanC883]

I'd love to see Cuban buy the Bills, actually. He's a Pittsburgh by by birth.

 

that would be awesome if Cuban bought the Bills. He wanted to buy the Pirates, but was told they were not for sale. (b/c Bob Nutting is a cheap a&& owner. Makes Ralph look extravagant).

[RealityCheck]

I have said it before and I will say it again. NFL fans are close to maxed out. Personal debt is over 350% of GDP and rising. Wages are frozen in time and raising children is getting more expensive by the minute. The NFL's finances may currently be on the rise, but the finances of it's fan base are not. When your customers' credit cards are maxed out, what then? Perhaps the NFL will go the route of car companies at that point and get into the banking business, allowing fans to apply for lines of credit for the sole purpose of NFL related expenditures. Another way to set the hook in it's fans. Ironically, few teams can even finance their own real estate ventures without tax revenue from non-football fans. Oh, and by the way, if the stadium doesn't sell out, that tax payer in-market can't even check out 1 second of the local team because it is blacked out. More irony is that when businesses get that large and people exercise their free market rights to put their money elsewhere, additional public assistance from the tax payer gets leveraged out of the local politicians despite the free market mechanisms in place. I apologize for my rant. It is just that I am hypersensitive towards the plight of consumers where as when big businesses decline because the consumers have spoken, those same consumers then have to subsidize those businesses through their taxes via lobbying efforts. I need a drink.

[RyanC883]

I can see the NFL losing popularity, but I highly doubt it will lose out to the NBA. Granted I've only lived to 2 parts of the country, but both of those areas have little to no interest in basketball. I travel a lot and I pay attention to other people's conversation on planes and I've heard countless conversations about the NFL, and some about baseball. I can't remember any about the NBA. I've heard some regarding March madness, that's about it. It all sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

I agree. The NFL is a business, it is doing things based on market studies and to make more money. When fans stop watching, they will pull back to my preferred format, and most peoples format of all games Sunday, and one on Monday. With the occasional Thursday game.

[CountDorkula]

You're right. Fast-paced, wide-open, passing-oriented football has certainly killed interest in college football, hasn't it? You observation has little or nothing to do with Cuban's point.

For me it is the opposite. I do not know what is or is not a catch anymore, what is possession. What is a penalty, what is not.

Huge play, but we have to review it to see if he maintained possesion while making a football move and held the ball all the way to the ground.

 

The rules are so complex, that the refs dont even know what they are anymore.

[RyanC883]

I have said it before and I will say it again. NFL fans are close to maxed out. Personal debt is over 350% of GDP and rising. Wages are frozen in time and raising children is getting more expensive by the minute. The NFL's finances may currently be on the rise, but the finances of it's fan base are not. When your customers' credit cards are maxed out, what then? Perhaps the NFL will go the route of car companies at that point and get into the banking business, allowing fans to apply for lines of credit for the sole purpose of NFL related expenditures. Another way to set the hook in it's fans. Ironically, few teams can even finance their own real estate ventures without tax revenue from non-football fans. Oh, and by the way, if the stadium doesn't sell out, that tax payer in-market can't even check out 1 second of the local team because it is blacked out. More irony is that when businesses get that large and people exercise their free market rights to put their money elsewhere, additional public assistance from the tax payer gets leveraged out of the local politicians despite the free market mechanisms in place. I apologize for my rant. It is just that I am hypersensitive towards the plight of consumers where as when big businesses decline because the consumers have spoken, those same consumers then have to subsidize those businesses through their taxes via lobbying efforts. I need a drink.

 

I hear ya. But the average consumer will do nothing about it, and vote for the same people who voted for the subsidies.

[Buftex]

I'd love to see Cuban buy the Bills, actually. He's a Pittsburgh by by birth.

 

Would love that too... though maybe not my first option. But, as with MLB (he tried to by the Rangers, Pirates), I just don't think he would jibe well enough with the NFL establishment to be approved by the other owners...of course, the NFL "establishment" is slowly starting to wither away.

 

A small company that my sister works for was recently selected by Cuban as a company to invest in, on that "Shark Tank" program. He is a smart guy (I used to loathe him, but I am starting to come around to him a little), but he is not one to invest in something for sentimental reasons. Kind of a young turk...he would likely find a million reasons to move the team from Buffalo. Pegula would be my first choice... I know, the Sabres experiment has been a bit of a disaster up til now, but I think he has his heart in the right place...the more he invests in the city of Buffalo, the more buying the Bills makes sense for him.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Buftex

[bills1960]

Cuban's all worked up about nothing. The deal with CBS that he's talking about it just so that there's a simulcast for the thursday night games. Not greed, it's just so that it's easier for people without NFL Network to watch the game. Maybe if the schedule was extended to 18 games or there was another slate of primetime games added then he'd be making sense.

[birdog1960]

I have said it before and I will say it again. NFL fans are close to maxed out. Personal debt is over 350% of GDP and rising. Wages are frozen in time and raising children is getting more expensive by the minute. The NFL's finances may currently be on the rise, but the finances of it's fan base are not. When your customers' credit cards are maxed out, what then? Perhaps the NFL will go the route of car companies at that point and get into the banking business, allowing fans to apply for lines of credit for the sole purpose of NFL related expenditures. Another way to set the hook in it's fans. Ironically, few teams can even finance their own real estate ventures without tax revenue from non-football fans. Oh, and by the way, if the stadium doesn't sell out, that tax payer in-market can't even check out 1 second of the local team because it is blacked out. More irony is that when businesses get that large and people exercise their free market rights to put their money elsewhere, additional public assistance from the tax payer gets leveraged out of the local politicians despite the free market mechanisms in place. I apologize for my rant. It is just that I am hypersensitive towards the plight of consumers where as when big businesses decline because the consumers have spoken, those same consumers then have to subsidize those businesses through their taxes via lobbying efforts. I need a drink.

This is all very true. the haves and have nots of teams and fans are a real threat to the league. but fans can watch at home and not hurt the teams bottom line all that much even with 1/2 empty stadiums as long as the tv money is there. perennial have -not teams threaten that pot of gold much more than the have- not fans. how many buffalo- cleveland prime time games are possible before the brand is irrevocably broken? the league needs to be much more proactive in legislating parity among teams.

[Roger Goodell]

Cuban is just jealous. He'll be eating the NFL's dust for decades to come.

[mead107]

I retire next year . do not think I will renew next year. rather just party at the house.

[Pete]

Money is the ruiner of all things good. Football for me is almost unwatchable. 1:00 games used to be over by 3:40- now they last until 5 because all the added commercials trying to sell you **** you don't need. And they crank the volume for the commercials, making surround sound unlistenable. I used to go to a lot of Bills games, but there was a gap when I didn't see any for many years. Well I couldn't believe how much standing around between plays there was due to all the commercials. There is no flow. I watch champions league soccer- and it is a superior product IMO because there is flow.

 

Then there is the pussification and desecration of the game. First no wedges. In the grasp. Moving kick off up. Defenseless receiver. RB can't lower head. Excessive fines. Etc.

 

The NFL was a beautiful game. I have no idea how anyone could !@#$ it up. But they have

[yungmack]

In the 1930s, the three most popular sports in the US were baseball, boxing and horseracing. Today all three still exist, still draw fans and make money. Baseball is still quite popular but is certainly not the colossus it once was. On the other hand, boxing has dropped precipitously while horseracing is in steep decline.

 

As to football, it is measurably in decline, and not just in the NFL. Pop Warner-level participation has been dropping, more and more parents (including current and former pros) are negative about their children playing the game, and anecdotally it seems more and more youngsters are choosing other pastimes over football. One of the things I've noticed, and I suspect many of you have as well, is that kids from about 12 to 25 do not have the same level of enthusiasm and interest in the game as those same kids would have 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. This is similar to the drop in enthusiasm I and my friends experienced as a kids in the 1950s towards baseball: we never stopped liking it and playing it, but our hearts were more committed towards football. And that signaled a generational change that would eventually make football the most popular sport.

 

The NFL's growth has gone from "vertical" to "horizontal," with its recent growth having more to do with increased "game days" and higher broadcast fees. It has seemingly topped out as far as expansion, with every pocket of population covered, which is why we hear about "expansion" to Toronto, London and even possibly Mexico. Additionally, it seems many areas of the country are weary of giving billionaire owners "subsidies" to keep teams in their cities (LA long ago reached that point) and my guess is that the heyday of lavishing public money on sports teams is drawing to a close.

 

Finally, there is the question of a changing population. If you were born in the 1960s or earlier, you were born into a country that was over 85% white, one in which there was a definable shared "American" culture no matter your race or nationality, most likely the result of immigration being closed from the 1920s to the 1960s. However, the next census is projected to show that the native-born white percentage will be under 50% and that the percentage of native-born for two or more generations will also be sharply lower. If Los Angeles is any indication, interest in traditional American sports is low-to-non-existent. We have experienced a huge influx of immigrants from China, Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam, India, Iran, Armenia, the old USSR and of course Mexico and the countries of Central America. Immigrants and their first-generation children now are the majority population in greater Los Angeles. There was a story in the LA Times just this morning that Chinese are snapping up houses as fast as they hit the market because even older tract homes are seen as a bargain at "only a million dollars." If these kids play sports at all -- very few Chinese kids do -- it is likely to be soccer, cricket (extremely popular with South Asians), and golf (especially among the Koreans). I can't see this population base in 20 years ponying up for football stadiums. Certainly some percentage will become fans but in general it is my belief that all "American" sports are in permanent decline from both the fan base and participation perspective. As the old adage has it, "Demographics are destiny."

Edited March 24, 2014 by yungmack

[May Day 10]

Im at the point where I am checked out a bit. I would perhaps make a difference if the Bills were in the running... but who knows. As it is, the games are too long, too many breaks, too many rules/interpretations, etc. Even fantasy seems to have grown a bit stale. There are only 2 networks carrying games on Sunday and only 1 slot there are 2 at once, so when you have a commercial, you are "stuck".

 

NCAA I love. The game is more exciting (mainly because you have a bigger variety of talent levels amongst players), atmosphere is amazing compared to 95% of the NFL, if there is a commercial, there are 20 other games on you can flip to, its on from like noon to 2 AM if Hawaii is home, it is much more fun and interesting to gamble on (spreads, huge o/u, etc)... Since I discovered the awesomeness of NCAA, my Sundays have been spent often doing other things (unless Im at a Bills game).

[Security]

In the 1930s, the three most popular sports in the US were baseball, boxing and horseracing. Today all three still exist, still draw fans and make money. Baseball is still quite popular but is certainly not the colossus it once was. On the other hand, boxing has dropped precipitously while horseracing is in steep decline.

 

As to football, it is measurably in decline, and not just in the NFL. Pop Warner-level participation has been dropping, more and more parents (including current and former pros) are negative about their children playing the game, and anecdotally it seems more and more youngsters are choosing other pastimes over football. One of the things I've noticed, and I suspect many of you have as well, is that kids from about 12 to 25 do not have the same level of enthusiasm and interest in the game as those same kids would have 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. This is similar to the drop in enthusiasm I and my friends experienced as a kids in the 1950s enthusiasm towards baseball: we never stopped liking it and playing it, but our hearts were more committed towards football. And that signaled a generational change that would eventually make football the most popular sport.

 

The NFL's growth has gone from "vertical" to "horizontal," with its recent growth having more to do with increased "game days" and higher broadcast fees. It has seemingly topped out as far as expansion, with every pocket of population covered, which is why we hear about "expansion" to Toronto, London and even possibly Mexico. Additionally, it seems many areas of the country are weary of giving billionaire owners "subsidies" to keep teams in their cities (LA long ago reached that point) and my guess is that the heyday of lavishing public money on sports teams is drawing to a close.

 

Finally, there is the question of a changing population. If you were born in the 1960s or earlier, you were born into a country that was over 85% white, one in which there was a definable shared "American" culture no matter your race or nationality, most likely the result of immigration being closed from the 1920s to the 1960s. However, the next census is projected to show that the native-born white percentage will be under 50% and that the percentage of native-born for two or more generations will also be sharply lower. If Los Angeles is any indication, interest in traditional American sports is low-to-non-existent. We have experienced a huge influx of immigrants from China, Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam, India, Iran, Armenia, the old USSR and of course Mexico and the countries of Central America. Immigrants and their first-generation children now are the majority population in greater Los Angeles. There was a story in the LA Times just this morning that Chinese are snapping up houses as fast as they hit the market because even older tract homes are seen as a bargain at "only a million dollars." If these kids play sports at all -- very few Chinese kids do -- it is likely to be soccer, cricket (extremely popular with South Asians), and golf (especially among the Koreans). I can't see this population base in 20 years ponying up for football stadiums.Certainly some percentage will become fans but in general it is my belief that all "American" sports are in permanent decline from both fan bases and participation. As the old adage has it, "Demographics are destiny."

 

So, are the "white" sports about to make a move up? Golf, Tennis, maybe even hockey? White people pretty much dominate X-Games. White people sure love the stupid cross-fit and Spartan Races and Warrior dashes and Zombie runs too.

 

I think the NFL has a long way to go before it trends down. Kids may stop playing, but they will end up playing in high school. The best players will still be playing. There is too much money involved here. Some kids that are poor and are great athletes will not be kept out of playing. If you are a dad of a kid with a rocket arm, you will let him play football.

[mannc]

Money is the ruiner of all things good. Football for me is almost unwatchable. 1:00 games used to be over by 3:40- now they last until 5 because all the added commercials trying to sell you **** you don't need. And they crank the volume for the commercials, making surround sound unlistenable. I used to go to a lot of Bills games, but there was a gap when I didn't see any for many years. Well I couldn't believe how much standing around between plays there was due to all the commercials. There is no flow. I watch champions league soccer- and it is a superior product IMO because there is flow.

 

I agree. The incessant stoppages in play make the game almost unwatchable. Similarly, I believe the decline of baseball has a lot to do with the fact that the MLB has completely failed to take action to make the games move faster. Games that used to take just over two hours now take more than three hours. Contrast this with soccer. This is one of the reasons I love the hurry up offenses run by college programs like Oregon--less standing around, more action. A faster game, played by fitter, quicker athletes.

 

Then there is the pussification and desecration of the game. First no wedges. In the grasp. Moving kick off up. Defenseless receiver. RB can't lower head. Excessive fines. Etc.

 

I could not disagree more with this comment. These changes were long overdue and need to be enforced even more strictly. (By the way, the "in the grasp" rule is no longer in effect and has not been for quite a few years.) In fact, I would like to see a rule requiring tacklers to wrap their arms around the ball carrier, like in rugby (hardly a pussified sport, by the way). Edited March 24, 2014 by mannc