grinreaper Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Democrats have zero skin in this game if you think about it. If the Republicans don't repeal, they will be in trouble. If they do repeal and replace, they are probably still in trouble if that CBO estimate is somewhat accurate. At this point, repeal the ACA, patch legislation to keep ACA State based systems in place if the State chooses to do so, block grant Federal Healthcare dollars (exchange subsidies and Medicaid) for 3-5 years and tell States the Fed is done with Healthcare outside of Medicare after that. Its too big and Americans have no stomach for central planning for healthcare. This is the time for Trump to really use the bully pulpit loud and often to shame the dems to come to the game to work out a deal. He has to make the general public see that he wants to make a deal with the dems. Let them be the ones to blame if things fall apart and the ACA is left completely to die. Scaring the schit out of the dems is the only way to get them to the table. To get the far right to agree to a deal will make the deal unacceptable to all dems and some repubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 This is the time for Trump to really use the bully pulpit loud and often to shame the dems to come to the game to work out a deal. He has to make the general public see that he wants to make a deal with the dems. Let them be the ones to blame if things fall apart and the ACA is left completely to die. Scaring the schit out of the dems is the only way to get them to the table. To get the far right to agree to a deal will make the deal unacceptable to all dems and some repubs. You have it backwards. The Dems have said from the start that they would work with the Repubs to fix the long term problems with the ACA. It's the Repubs who insist that it has to be completely repealed and replaced. 7 years of trying to repeal and they still can't come up with a viable alternative. The dog caught the car and doesn't know what to do with it. And if Trump compromises with the Dems and repairs instead of repeals, he will be breaking his promise to his voters on the scale of Bush's "Read my lips, no new taxes". So Trump and the Repubs have painted themselves into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 You have it backwards. The Dems have said from the start that they would work with the Repubs to fix the long term problems with the ACA. No, actually the Dems from the start have said "We and the American people are driving, the Republicans can come along for the ride, but they have to sit in back." Then used parliamentary chicanery to pass it with no Republican input. Then continually modified it, unilaterally, outside any legislative process and without any Republican input. You know what the clearest evidence is that the ACA is a failure? Pinheads like you keep trying to blame it on the Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 No, actually the Dems from the start have said "We and the American people are driving, the Republicans can come along for the ride, but they have to sit in back." Then used parliamentary chicanery to pass it with no Republican input. Then continually modified it, unilaterally, outside any legislative process and without any Republican input. You know what the clearest evidence is that the ACA is a failure? Pinheads like you keep trying to blame it on the Republicans. Numbnutz, I didnt blame the Repubs for the current ACA, which is not a failure. They are to blame if they just repeal and replace instead of working with the Dems who acknowledge it needs modifications to build upon its success for long-term viability. Then the 24 million more without insurance will be on the Repubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 No, actually the Dems from the start have said "We and the American people are driving, the Republicans can come along for the ride, but they have to sit in back." Then used parliamentary chicanery to pass it with no Republican input. Then continually modified it, unilaterally, outside any legislative process and without any Republican input. You know what the clearest evidence is that the ACA is a failure? Pinheads like you keep trying to blame it on the Republicans. You realize the ACA was originally proposed by Republicans in the 1990s, right? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Equity_and_Access_Reform_Today_Act_of_1993 GOP and DNC are filled with oligarchs that would rather give the people *any* health plan other than single-payer because that's the only system where they can't make money off us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 You realize the ACA was originally proposed by Republicans in the 1990s, right? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Equity_and_Access_Reform_Today_Act_of_1993 GOP and DNC are filled with oligarchs that would rather give the people *any* health plan other than single-payer because that's the only system where they can't make money off us But I don't want to stand in line! I don't want to schedule my appointments months in advance! Look how bad the VA is! American special snowflakes would never stand for single-payer. People are too special to think and act collectively! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The part that has bothered me is the logical increase to elderly out of pocket costs once you remove the mandate. The majority of that demographic leans to the right. There really aren't many great options for the republicans. The mandate usually pushes younger people to buy it rather than those that need it. But your point isn't lost, this is something that Trump will have to be cognizant of. His sort of core supporters aren't as hard line ideologically market base driven than other parts of the base. I mean the guy basically said he wanted to give Universal coverage on the campaign trail, my hunch is he'll move more towards that direction than where the proposed bill is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 The mandate usually pushes younger people to buy it rather than those that need it. But your point isn't lost, this is something that Trump will have to be cognizant of. His sort of core supporters aren't as hard line ideologically market base driven than other parts of the base. I mean the guy basically said he wanted to give Universal coverage on the campaign trail, my hunch is he'll move more towards that direction than where the proposed bill is today. So you are assuming the hard right in the House will cave to allow a bill to pass in the Senate? But the House seems intent on killing Medicade which is a no go in the senate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 So you are assuming the hard right in the House will cave to allow a bill to pass in the Senate? But the House seems intent on killing Medicade which is a no go in the senate I think there will be some horse trading. My guess is that rather than eliminate the expansion of Medicaid in 2020 as the bill proposes they'll push it forward to 2018 or 2019 and that they'll means test some of the advanced tax credits from some of the higher earning individuals that qualify for them. That way some of the Freedom caucus members can point to some concessions in order to support it. Then once it goes to the Senate, my guess is that they'll increase the advanced tax credits for the lower income earners to make it more affordable for them and that would increase the total amount of people covered. Add that and the legislative and regulations that they are wanting to undo, you'll see a better law than what we are seeing right now. Remember. There are 3 main things that people are looking at: A) Amount of people covered - which as it stands it is lacking B) premiums - according to CBO - as it stands the premiums will drop by 10% C) Deficit concerns- according to CBO- as it stands it will drop by $337 Billion dollars. With the reforms they want to add, premiums will drop even more. So in actuality the report is nowhere near as bad as the media portrays it to be, because as we know liberals and the media judge the success of health care reform based on the total number of people covered. I'm not saying that isn't important, I happen to believe it is. So there is work to be done on that front, but lets not forget that the mandate helped drive those numbers. And lets not forget that there are many more reforms they want to add to the bill that will help in that aspect. NOt to mention that my deep suspicion is that there will be more tax credits provided to the poor to help on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 This is the time for Trump to really use the bully pulpit loud and often to shame the dems to come to the game to work out a deal. He has to make the general public see that he wants to make a deal with the dems. Let them be the ones to blame if things fall apart and the ACA is left completely to die. Scaring the schit out of the dems is the only way to get them to the table. To get the far right to agree to a deal will make the deal unacceptable to all dems and some repubs. Pulpit or not, Democrats aren't going to lift a finger- for 7 years the GOP has voted 50 times to repeal, did everything to undermine the ACA, boasted they had better plans... Trump has boated his secret plan is fabulous, covers everybody and is way less expensive.. day 1 this was supposed to be a done deal repeal.... now, your'revfaced with the reality the ACA was one gigantic compromise catering to EVERYONE, and now the GOP is trying to play the role of alchemist while denying the fact that the ACA was about a good a piece of sausage as sausage is going to be. Republicans have ALOT to lose and made big promises, many of them self conflicting. Democrats don't control anything, have few prospects nationally, and no motivation to get involved. Right or wrong, inherited or self inflicted, the GOP owns this now, they are the ones governing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 You have it backwards. The Dems have said from the start that they would work with the Repubs to fix the long term problems with the ACA. It's the Repubs who insist that it has to be completely repealed and replaced. 7 years of trying to repeal and they still can't come up with a viable alternative. The dog caught the car and doesn't know what to do with it. And if Trump compromises with the Dems and repairs instead of repeals, he will be breaking his promise to his voters on the scale of Bush's "Read my lips, no new taxes". So Trump and the Repubs have painted themselves into a corner. You, my good man, are precisely why Trump is in the WH and even moreso why your party is left in charge of the Greater Macungie Utilities Commission...and Detroit. No matter how much you try to convince people they're stupid, they're never as stupid as you need them to be. People remember what the left did to shove ACA up the country's ass. They remember Obama lying over and over over over en route to what even Politifact called "The Lie Of The Year." You should be embarrassed to even suggest it was any other way. But you keep pretending the Dems were on the up and up. Good luck with Macungie. You realize the ACA was originally proposed by Republicans in the 1990s, right? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Equity_and_Access_Reform_Today_Act_of_1993 GOP and DNC are filled with oligarchs that would rather give the people *any* health plan other than single-payer because that's the only system where they can't make money off us Dear Sir, Thank you for your note and your generous contribution. Please keep up the good work promoting a story line that absolutely no one believes. Sincerely, Trump/Pence 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 CBO proves that once again the only way to repeal #Obamacare it to...actually repeal it This is an excellent summary of the CBO report 5 Things You Need To Know From CBO's Trumpcare Report The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) released a cost estimate report on Monday outlining their analyses of the effects of the proposed American Health Care Act (AHCA), should the AHCA be signed into law. Below are five takeaways for political observers. *(More on each one at the link) 1. DEFICITS WILL GO DOWN The CE estimates that enactment of the AHCA would reduce federal deficits $337 billion over nine years; across the 2017-2026 period. The CBO estimates the budget deficit will be $559 billion in fiscal year 2017. 2. NUMBER OF UNINSURED WILL RISE Democrats and the broader left will seize on the CE’s estimate of the AHCA’s enactment leading to an increase in the total number of uninsured persons. By 2018, 14 million more people would be uninsured than under current law according to the CE’s estimate. The CE further estimates that most of this 14 million person increase would arise from persons currently purchasing health insurance in order to avoid the ACA’s penalties via the “individual mandate;” others would avoid purchasing insurance due to higher premiums in the absence subsidies they previously had access to under the ACA. 3. HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL NOT SURVIVE HORDES OF ILL CLIENTS 4. PREMIUMS WILL RISE The CE predicts that health insurance premiums in the “individual market” will rise before 2020, mainly due to the withdrawal of younger and healthier persons from the health insurance market in the absence of the ACA’s “individual mandate:” 5. HEALTH INSURANCE MARKET PREDICTIONS ARE BEYOND COMPLICATED The CE notes that its estimates are “uncertain.” Political observers should note the exceeding complexity of the health insurance marketplace, and the extreme difficulty in assessing the behavior of millions of persons within dynamic regulatory and market landscapes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 This is an excellent summary of the CBO report 5 Things You Need To Know From CBO's Trumpcare Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Wire The Daily Wire is an American conservative news website founded in 2015 by political commentator Ben Shapiro.[2] He currently serves as Editor-in-chief.[3] Your source sucks - do you just vomit whatever the conservative spin on the news of the day is? Is that why this thread is so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Wire Your source sucks - do you just vomit whatever the conservative spin on the news of the day is? Is that why this thread is so long? Then read the CBO report and make an argument. "Your source sucks" is not an argument, it's an emotional outburst. https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/americanhealthcareact_0.pdf Edited March 14, 2017 by Greg F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Your source sucks - do you just vomit whatever the conservative spin on the news of the day is? Is that why this thread is so long? it's been almost 36 hours since I've heard that particular juvenile type response. You didn't read it, or you didn't comprehend it, Ben Shapiro didn't write it, The thread is long because it is such an important subject, and our government continues to screw it up. I have been the most frequent poster to this thread for two reasons............I have been a nurse for almost 40 years and I am passionate about the healthcare industry and also I have had to respond to knee-jerk liberals, who spout their feelings in bumper sticker cliches instead of facts. Here's a few more links for you to ignore. CBO: AHCA saves $337B on deficit spending, but increases uninsured by 14 million in 2018 Fake News: CNN Cuts Live Feed AGAIN as Obamacare Victim Speaks Out (VIDEO) White House: We “strenuously” disagree with this CBO score of the Republican health care bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) .I have been a nurse for almost 40 years and I am passionate about the healthcare industry Ah - you're a Baby Boomer with a pension. The majority of your generation will die more hastily and in bankruptcy according to the CBO report. So there is some good news! Edited March 14, 2017 by Spurna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Ah - you're a Baby Boomer with a pension. The majority of your generation will die more hastily and in bankruptcy according to the CBO report. So there is some good news! Classy. That's some intellectualism as compelling as anything I've ever seen. Tiberius will be happy to know that he's not the only jerk posting here. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Classy. That's some intellectualism as compelling as anything I've ever seen. Tiberius will be happy to know that he's not the only jerk posting here. Cheers Sorry to have intruded on your Safe Space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Sorry to have intruded on your Safe Space. All that condescension plus feeble wit as well? That'll get you far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieJizzle22 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Are there any actuaries on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The mandate usually pushes younger people to buy it rather than those that need it. But your point isn't lost, this is something that Trump will have to be cognizant of. His sort of core supporters aren't as hard line ideologically market base driven than other parts of the base. I mean the guy basically said he wanted to give Universal coverage on the campaign trail, my hunch is he'll move more towards that direction than where the proposed bill is today. Ya, that was my point. I'm 28 and healthy. If you remove the mandate, a lot like me will not purchase insurance and cease driving costs down for the elderly. Most would argue for these options anyway though. Trump seems to understand the situation they are in, but I argue his fallback of letting the ACA implode to reflect poorly against Dems isn't the failsafe he argues. The uninformed voter will just apply the conditions to the current administration, plus the foaming mouth repeal Obamacare crowd will be naturally disgruntled. The Dems are being childish though and it appears they'd rather play a political game then to compromise and help more people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The Dems are being childish though and it appears they'd rather play a political game then to compromise and help more people. ...The GOP controls both houses of congress and the presidency What do you want the Democrats to do, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 ...The GOP controls both houses of congress and the presidency What do you want the Democrats to do, exactly? Stop acting with outrage over things they also did during the past administration. Be willing to work with the GOP on a bill instead of sandbagging everything. Pretty much take the high road instead of stooping to the level of the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Stop acting with outrage over things they also did during the past administration. The past administration cut funding for public housing and Medicaid to pay for increased military spending and a border wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The past administration cut funding for public housing and Medicaid to pay for increased military spending and a border wall? No, but they did force feed the ACA and are now screaming "slow down"? Come on. You are talking to a fierce liberal, but we are in a climate where compromise is absolutely necessary on healthcare. I'm really sick of everyone at this point. The wall is the stupidest thing I've ever heard and I'm still in denial it's even an issue so I will give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 You are talking to a fierce liberal, but we are in a climate where compromise is absolutely necessary on healthcare. ...Democrats have no control right now. The GOP is looking stupid all on its own, don't drag the Democrats into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 ...Democrats have no control right now. Hell, they didn't have control when the DID have control. These days they can't even control their bladders, amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 ...Democrats have no control right now. The GOP is looking stupid all on its own, don't drag the Democrats into this. The republicans do not have a supermajority in the Senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The republicans do not have a supermajority in the Senate. It's been amply demonstrated they don't need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's been amply demonstrated they don't need one. They have a phone. They have a pen. That's all you need. A phone. And a pen. And this thermos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 It's been amply demonstrated they don't need one. Then they would be falling into familiar traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Then they would be falling into familiar traps. As long as they pander to their base, you think they care? The American public doesn't elect people mature enough to not play this "Payback's a B word" game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 All that condescension plus feeble wit as well? That'll get you far. This guy would have never gotten any of my extreme vetting questions correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 As long as they pander to their base, you think they care? The American public doesn't elect people mature enough to not play this "Payback's a B word" game. Can't argue with that, but the republican base is a confusing mine field to navigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Can't argue with that, but the republican base is a confusing mine field to navigate. Not really. Have Trump tweet something stupid (i.e. anything), then point to the Democrats' resulting temper tantrum and say "Can you believe these people? Thank God you're not them." Working so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 They have a phone. They have a pen. That's all you need. A phone. And a pen. And this thermos. with a built in cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 This guy would have never gotten any of my extreme vetting questions correct. I'm not sure he'll even clear the mild vetting of PPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurna Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I'm not sure he'll even clear the mild vetting of PPP. You're right - I'm not a 50-year old white guy who lives in my parents' basement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) You're right - I'm not a 50-year old white guy who lives in my parents' basement This^^...your forgot "and somehow have an occupation that lets me live...I mean live...on this forum...." Edited March 14, 2017 by baskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Our President on Healthcare Act: "It's a big fat beautiful negotiation" Who can argue with a man who has such a way with words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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