Byrd Skipping mandatory mini-camp

[NoSaint]

 

 

At least this year, the playbooks are on iPads and can be remotely locked/erased by the Bills at a moment's notice, so the fact current Bills employees who may not remain Bills employees have one is of no consequence. I still believe it is borderline negligence to give a non-employee a playbook.

 

why?

 

Why would they give a playbook to a guy who hasn't shown up and who may get traded? If anything,

 

It's a ploy to get them into camp, at least. Not having the playbook will put him behind everyone else and make him have a slow start to the season, at least. In what is a(nother) contract year, that could be costly. Then there is the issue of what happens if you trade him?

 

because anyone may get traded, and many WILL be cut. if you trade him, why is it any different than anyone else, except hed have even less insight into the day to day.

 

 

[eball]

why?

 

Because he is not beholden to the Bills while he is in possession of their playbook. We'd love to think everyone upholds the highest moral and ethical standards, but then again, this is real life.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Because he is not beholden to the Bills while he is in possession of their playbook. We'd love to think everyone upholds the highest moral and ethical standards, but then again, this is real life.

 

but ultimately, what does that argument amount to....

 

 

are you of the thought that if we didnt switch coaches we would have taken his playbook away from him? or that happened last year with brees, the year before with manning? do you think clady is without playbook?

 

how is that different than rookies getting them before they sign? we hold their rights but havent put pen to paper.

 

i dont think the playbook is near as top secret as the argument requires to be valid. even if it was, they could give him a limited version.

Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint

[eball]

but ultimately, what does that argument amount to....

 

 

are you of the thought that if we didnt switch coaches we would have taken his playbook away from him? or that happened last year with brees, the year before with manning? do you think clady is without playbook?

 

how is that different than rookies getting them before they sign? we hold their rights but havent put pen to paper.

 

i dont think the playbook is near as top secret as the argument requires to be valid. even if it was, they could give him a limited version.

 

You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position.

 

Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not.

 

Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal?

 

Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible.

[thebandit27]

You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position.

 

Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not.

 

Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal?

 

Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible.

 

No...he had been given the exclusive franchise tag but hadn't signed it.

[Doc]

because anyone may get traded, and many WILL be cut. if you trade him, why is it any different than anyone else, except hed have even less insight into the day to day.

A holdout has a far greater chance to be traded than another player. But the bigger reason I'd wait to give him the playbook is to get him into camp faster.

[thebandit27]

A holdout has a far greater chance to be traded than another player. But the bigger reason I'd wait to give him the playbook is to get him into camp faster.

 

Not sure what one would have to do with the other....or perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding your point here...

[Doc]

Not sure what one would have to do with the other....or perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding your point here...

Those are two reasons I wouldn't give him the playbook until he showed up.

[NoSaint]

 

 

You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position.

 

Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not.

 

Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal?

 

Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible.

 

brees or manning were under franchise tags just the same. as is clady right now. i understand its a trade secret of sorts, but i dont think its near as guarded as most do - sure you arent putting them under fan seats at the game, but at some point the guy is a multi year vet and about to be one of the highest paid players on the roster even without an extension. i dont think that a player like that is who you are protecting it from. as ive said, if anything is TOP SECRET in it, they can give him 95% of it still so he can be up to speed.

 

i also believe that a big part of what makes the coach special isnt the actual book but his adaptability to real time game decisions, and week to week adjustments and gameplanning. you can get the meat and potatoes of the playbook from watching game film.

 

while those examples are a bit of devils advocate, i would be strongly surprised if JB hasnt been offered any access to our playbook yet. it would seem a bit self destructive for the coach to draw that line in the sand. after 2 weeks a good portion of it will be on tape as is, along with about 50 guys that spent the summer with it available on the open market.

 

if they trade jairus (at this point, when was the last time a tagged player was traded this late in the game?) so be it. why is it any real difference to the team when compared to the other 50 guys, many of which are pretty well 100% locks to be cut?

Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint

[eball]

I have a feeling Byrd keeps in touch with players like Gilmore, Searcy, etc., and is "unofficially" being given the gist of Pettine's new system. Because he is a veteran, it's not going to be that difficult for him to get up to speed if and when he returns.

 

That said, I still wouldn't issue him a playbook.

 

I look at franchise QBs differently, although thanks for correcting me on Brees. The Saints didn't change their offense and it was a foregone conclusion he'd be returning. Just a different situation when you're talking about the QB, in my opinion.

[NoSaint]

I have a feeling Byrd keeps in touch with players like Gilmore, Searcy, etc., and is "unofficially" being given the gist of Pettine's new system. Because he is a veteran, it's not going to be that difficult for him to get up to speed if and when he returns.

 

That said, I still wouldn't issue him a playbook.

 

I look at franchise QBs differently, although thanks for correcting me on Brees. The Saints didn't change their offense and it was a foregone conclusion he'd be returning. Just a different situation when you're talking about the QB, in my opinion.

 

thats why i included clady as a current example this year. the brees and manning examples were really pushing it to the boundaries.

 

ill agree, as a guy that is entering his (?)fifth system in six years(?) dating back to oregon... no one is reinventing the wheel on what a safety is asked to do. pettine may split up assignments play to play differently, but its not like he has some super secret technique that byrds missing out on. odds are he will be pretty well up to speed quickly.

 

i just dont think its held under quite the lock and key that most fans do. i dont think, barring a statement that he hasnt been given access that its fair to assume he doesnt have a copy - even if it may be slightly modified (though i dont think the BIG secrets pettine has up his sleeve even make it out until specific weekly matchups).

Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint

[26CornerBlitz]

@ProFootballTalk

Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O

[The Big Cat]

@ProFootballTalk

Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O

 

Man, that whole week 10 deadline seems like cutting off one's nose in spite one's face...

[NoSaint]

 

 

Man, that whole week 10 deadline seems like cutting off one's nose in spite one's face...

 

it would seem things would have to be VERY ugly to get there. i imagine we likely wouldve heard more in attempts to get traded by now if he was unwilling to suit up week 1.... but thats just guesswork.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Those are two reasons I wouldn't give him the playbook until he showed up.

he's been given the FA tag. Why not give him a playbook. what harm is there? its not like he can play for another team

[Coach Tuesday]

Levitre and Byrd played on losing teams ergo they are losers ergo why pay them especially when neither is as good as Ed Reed and besides, they each want exactly $1-2 million per season more than the TBD capologists / cap-apologists have decided they are worth and anyhow, that money should be reinvested in Littman's lease negotiation bonus because if Littman isn't happy, the Bills might leave so we should lick his feet because we lowly blue collar scrubs are just lucky to have any team that would deign to let us pay to watch and house them.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

@ProFootballTalk

Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O

 

I was assuming that the Bills would do either of two things: (a) work out a long-term deal (since the market has been pretty much established from the TB safety signing); or (b) reach a deal with him where he signs the tender but they won't franchise him again (a la Nate Clements)?

 

I guess the Bills are feeling good enough to call Byrd's bluff, get him to sign the franchise, and thereby generate enough leverage to sign him long-term at a lower salary? Seems too hardball to me, when dealing with a guy who you obviously want around and there is already a market rate set.

[vincec]

Well, if I were Byrd and his agent I would hold out until just before the start of week 1 and then sign the tender and report. That way I get my full salary and will be able to count the season.

 

It would be crazy to give up money during the regular season by holding out then. These are millions of dollars that will be permanently lost. He will never be able to recover them later in his career and there's no way that holding out for a few extra hundred thousand will make up for the millions he will lose if he sits out the year.

 

No reason to sign before then though and risk injury. If he's lucky, he will not know the system and will not even play for the first few games so he will be collecting his monster contract and not putting his body on the line.

 

Then next year we start over with the same situation.

[Malazan]

I guess the Bills are feeling good enough to call Byrd's bluff, get him to sign the franchise, and thereby generate enough leverage to sign him long-term at a lower salary? Seems too hardball to me, when dealing with a guy who you obviously want around and there is already a market rate set.

 

Byrd doesn't want 'market rate'. He wants to be the highest paid at his position.

[vincec]

Byrd doesn't want 'market rate'. He wants to be the highest paid at his position.

I suspect that is the "market rate" for Byrd (until the next premium safety's contract is up at least)

Edited July 8, 2013 by vincec

[K-9]

I suspect that is the "market rate" for Byrd (until the next premium safety's contract is up at least)

 

That is a matter of strict opinion. The Bills have valid reasons for NOT making him the highest paid safety. As it is, he'll be the 4th highest paid this season anyway, and that will only go up next year if they franchise him again.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Astrobot]

Using ProFootballFocus Signature Stats, Byrd is hands down the best coverage safety in the NFL, far andbaway. He is second overall to Eric Weddle, but pass coverage isn't Weddle's strong suit.

 

[vincec]

That is a matter of strict opinion. The Bills have valid reasons for NOT making him the highest paid safety. As it is, he'll be the 4th highest paid this season anyway, and that will only go up next year if they franchise him again.

 

GO BILLS!!!

What "valid reasons" are you referring to? Aside from the obvious reason that they don't want to spend the money so that they can use it for ... er, um... something else.

[Doc]

he's been given the FA tag. Why not give him a playbook. what harm is there? its not like he can play for another team

Again, mostly to make him report to OBD sooner rather than later. He's in another contract year if he plays under the 1-year tag and he'll want to have a great season. Not having the playbook until late isn't going to help that cause.

[K-9]

What "valid reasons" are you referring to? Aside from the obvious reason that they don't want to spend the money so that they can use it for ... er, um... something else.

 

I've mentioned these valid reasons on several occasions throughout this thread. I don't feel a need to restate them here. I'll just say that the Bills' reasons can't simply be dismissed because you happen to disagree with them.

 

And what's wrong with being the 4th highest paid anyway? That's about right given his athletic ability to influence a game on a play by play basis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Using ProFootballFocus Signature Stats, Byrd is hands down the best coverage safety in the NFL, far andbaway. He is second overall to Eric Weddle, but pass coverage isn't Weddle's strong suit.

 

How does pff account for Byrd's responsibilities in zone coverages? How about the times he overcommits? What about those times when he's simply outrun?

 

Pff would have me believe they have all of Byrd's plays in the proper context to evaluate them. I don't believe it for a second and I take all their evaluations with a bolder of salt.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited July 8, 2013 by K-9

[vincec]

I've mentioned these valid reasons on several occasions throughout this thread. I don't feel a need to restate them here. I'll just say that the Bills' reasons can't simply be dismissed because you happen to disagree with them.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Fair enough, but the same goes for you. Your reasons are valid in your opinion and Byrd's position can't be dismissed simply because you don't agree with it.

[K-9]

Fair enough, but the same goes for you. Your reasons are valid in your opinion and Byrd's position can't be dismissed simply because you don't agree with it.

 

I'm not dismissing Byrd's position. I'm sure he feels he has a legitimate reasons for his stance. I have no problem with that at all.

 

I didn't think it was necessary to qualify everything posted here as our own opinions. I just assumed that was understood.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

 

 

I've mentioned these valid reasons on several occasions throughout this thread. I don't feel a need to restate them here. I'll just say that the Bills' reasons can't simply be dismissed because you happen to disagree with them.

 

And what's wrong with being the 4th highest paid anyway? That's about right given his athletic ability to influence a game on a play by play basis.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

How does pff account for Byrd's responsibilities in zone coverages? How about the times he overcommits? What about those times when he's simply outrun?

 

Pff would have me believe they have all of Byrd's plays in the proper context to evaluate them. I don't believe it for a second and I take all their evaluations with a bolder of salt.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Really the only thing I take issue with is if he agrees on a deal that's 4th highest today he will be 9th highest by the time he's done with it. If he's a top 5 talent I don't think it's unfair to shoot at the top of the charts to fall to an average of top 5 over the duration.

 

I'm still surprised Parker's "he's compensated at 15-20%" comment hasn't gotten more press. Even the high end of that is a 7.33 average assuming his highest one year salary hes earned and that its the 15% end

[ndirish1978]

PFT says we're not even planning on talking to him before the deadline?! That makes no sense. His agent, who helped Peters out of town, appears to be doing the same thing all over again. What should we trade him for?

 

http://profootballta...ls-jairus-byrd/

Edited July 9, 2013 by ndirish1978

[Doc]

PFT says we're not even planning on talking to him before the deadline?! That makes no sense. His agent, who helped Peters out of town, appears to be doing the same thing all over again. What should we trade him for?

 

http://profootballta...ls-jairus-byrd/

Let them come crawling to the Bills. As it stands, Byrd will have to play under a 1-year $6.9M tender if he doesn't agree to what the Bills have offered. Next year they can re-franchise him for $8.2M. He'll need to play well each year to justify a huge contract from someone.

[mitchmurraydowntown]

PFT says we're not even planning on talking to him before the deadline?! That makes no sense. His agent, who helped Peters out of town, appears to be doing the same thing all over again. What should we trade him for?

 

http://profootballta...ls-jairus-byrd/

I'm looking for Byrd to play under his tender but only come back after Training Camp is over, kinda of like the Bruce Smith my aching groin trick.

[bbb]

Here is what I think about bargaining people like Parker. He does not respect the game , for him it is about money and no other item appears on his list I believe the only way for the Bills or any other team to deal with Parker is to be the same. What Parker does is wait until the team shows it's priority to football and then he gets what he wants. Either a contract or a trade. In either case he gets the money. As a great negotiator Herb Cohen says...it is not about the money it is about the MONEY. If the Bills make a respectful offer they must then be prepared to allow Byrd to sit out. It must be about the money for the Bills as well. It appears to me the even if Byrd comes to camp, he will not play well, he will be disruptive. He must understand it is his career, not Parker's money game. No game, no money.

 

I have to agree with this. In that Tim Graham article, Curtis Martin said (in a positive way, seemingly) that Eugene doesn't leave a dollar on the table. I didn't take that as a positive myself.

 

As for the quotes from Parcells, of course he loves Parker - he's the one who designed the scam contract to get Martin to him at the Jets from the Pats.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

I have to agree with this. In that Tim Graham article, Curtis Martin said (in a positive way, seemingly) that Eugene doesn't leave a dollar on the table. I didn't take that as a positive myself.

 

As for the quotes from Parcells, of course he loves Parker - he's the one who designed the scam contract to get Martin to him at the Jets from the Pats.

 

Yeah because the owners, esp Ralph, love to give money away for the love of the game. Come on. Ralph Wilson would walk across a busy six-lane highway to pick up a nickel. I can't fault the players or agents for looking out for themselves.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Really the only thing I take issue with is if he agrees on a deal that's 4th highest today he will be 9th highest by the time he's done with it. If he's a top 5 talent I don't think it's unfair to shoot at the top of the charts to fall to an average of top 5 over the duration.

 

I'm still surprised Parker's "he's compensated at 15-20%" comment hasn't gotten more press. Even the high end of that is a 7.33 average assuming his highest one year salary hes earned and that its the 15% end

 

First of all, I agree with you on this discussion regarding the issuance of the playbook.

 

Undrafted free agents are issued these things before they're inevitably cut. As we've pointed out, there are security measures associated with the iPad in terms of locking and or wiping it clean from the host server.

 

Also the player AND the team both have some common interests one of which is that when he finally reports and plays, he plays well. No one believes that the Bills want Byrd to have a poor season, do they?

 

I don't know whether Byrd has a playbook or not but I know that if I were running the team, I would offer to make the playbook available to him with zero restrictions.

 

I also agree with your take that it's natural for Byrd to shoot for highest paid for the very reason that by the expiration of the contract, there will be lesser players making more money. There's zero question in my mind that he's going for a top-in-class contract and I think that he should. This does not mean that I think the Bills should give it to him btw.

 

One aspect that you've brought up several times is mystifying to me… the 15-20% comment. Wasn't this with regards to how much Byrd was paid during his rookie contract? If so in what way is that even relevant?

 

Byrd was drafted at a certain slot, paid accordingly, finished out that contract, and is now in a position of more leverage. To me nothing is less relevant than the terms of his rookie contract, unless I'm misunderstanding the 15-20% issue you raise.

[Captain Hindsight]

PFT says we're not even planning on talking to him before the deadline?! That makes no sense. His agent, who helped Peters out of town, appears to be doing the same thing all over again. What should we trade him for?

 

http://profootballta...ls-jairus-byrd/

They also just reported that Mario will be signing with Chicago

[NoSaint]

 

 

First of all, I agree with you on this discussion regarding the issuance of the playbook.

 

Undrafted free agents are issued these things before they're inevitably cut. As we've pointed out, there are security measures associated with the iPad in terms of locking and or wiping it clean from the host server.

 

Also the player AND the team both have some common interests one of which is that when he finally reports and plays, he plays well. No one believes that the Bills want Byrd to have a poor season, do they?

 

I don't know whether Byrd has a playbook or not but I know that if I were running the team, I would offer to make the playbook available to him with zero restrictions.

 

I also agree with your take that it's natural for Byrd to shoot for highest paid for the very reason that by the expiration of the contract, there will be lesser players making more money. There's zero question in my mind that he's going for a top-in-class contract and I think that he should. This does not mean that I think the Bills should give it to him btw.

 

One aspect that you've brought up several times is mystifying to me… the 15-20% comment. Wasn't this with regards to how much Byrd was paid during his rookie contract? If so in what way is that even relevant?

 

Byrd was drafted at a certain slot, paid accordingly, finished out that contract, and is now in a position of more leverage. To me nothing is less relevant than the terms of his rookie contract, unless I'm misunderstanding the 15-20% issue you raise.

 

Could be I misunderstood Parker's comment but Parker said along the lines of Byrds compensation has previously been15-20% of his perceived market value - that's the closest to insight on Parker's thoughts on market value we've gotten publicly. Some folks have come in with claims of 10m per year demands. If you gauge what that comment pegs it would be along the lines of last years value being in the mid 7s. Seems like an agent being reasonable in his assessments not an agent trying to cripple a team just to say he beat the team up. What the actual final number he's asking is, I don't know, but the fact that he didnt say 10% seems to indicate 7-8m is a reasonable guess for the discussions going on with perhaps a small bump over that but not blowing goldson out of the water.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Could be I misunderstood Parker's comment but Parker said along the lines of Byrds compensation has previously been15-20% of his perceived market value - that's the closest to insight on Parker's thoughts on market value we've gotten publicly. Some folks have come in with claims of 10m per year demands. If you gauge what that comment pegs it would be along the lines of last years value being in the mid 7s. Seems like an agent being reasonable in his assessments not an agent trying to cripple a team just to say he beat the team up. What the actual final number he's asking is, I don't know, but the fact that he didnt say 10% seems to indicate 7-8m is a reasonable guess for the discussions going on with perhaps a small bump over that but not blowing goldson out of the water.

 

Okay gotcha.

 

Thanks.

[bbb]

Yeah because the owners, esp Ralph, love to give money away for the love of the game. Come on. Ralph Wilson would walk across a busy six-lane highway to pick up a nickel. I can't fault the players or agents for looking out for themselves.

 

I don't either. But, not leaving a dollar on the table, as is Parker's style, is just plain stupid.........How is that working out for Albert Pujols for stupidly leaving St. Louis, where he was Babe Ruth.

[ganesh]

he's been given the FA tag. Why not give him a playbook. what harm is there? its not like he can play for another team

 

Because he is yet to sign the tag, meaning, he is not under contract with the Buffalo Bills.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Because he is yet to sign the tag, meaning, he is not under contract with the Buffalo Bills.

 

There were rookies who were unsigned that were issued playbooks.

 

EJ Manuel participated in numerous practices before he finally signed. Presumably he was issued a playbook.