The Perfect WR...what we need

[BringBackFergy]

What do we have and what do we need are two different things. Watching the Ravens game yesterday I was impressed with how the Raven's receivers are both finesse and aggressive. For instance, I saw Bolden and Smith go up and fight for an underthrown ball. That is a great attribute in that not every pass will be perfect...we know that. But Bolden and Smith made extra effort to go to the ball and fight for the ball (even if it was high or off target).

 

What we have is SJ13 who I really admire, is a great route runner and quick off the LOS, but I haven't seen the aggressiveness in going after balls off target. Not a knock against him as most WR's don't; it's as if a WR nowadays expects the ball perfectly in stride and when it is, it's beautiful. Chan's offense relied mostly on perfectly timed routes. In Flacco/Bolden's case, throw the ball up and let Anquan get it.

 

Nelson is a finesse guy and Graham is a speedster (not a fight for it at all costs guy). Don Jones is sooo on and off and has great size but never saw the fighter in him.

 

So, in my opinion, we need a bigger guy, not a burner but decent speed, some brains and the ability (as evidenced in college game film) to go into a crowd and come down with the ball.

Edited January 21, 2013 by BringBackFergy

[RyanC883]

SJ is good, but i helps to have a QB who can throw catchable balls, even if they are jump balls the QB has to position the ball so his guy has the best chance of winning. I would also like a big target.

[Captain Hindsight]

Think Williams for Calvin Johnson straight up would do?

[BringBackFergy]

SJ is good, but i helps to have a QB who can throw catchable balls, even if they are jump balls the QB has to position the ball so his guy has the best chance of winning. I would also like a big target.

 

Not defending Fitz' performance overall but I do recall instances where the ball was thrown into a crowd and our guys turned into defenders rather than making an aggressive play on the ball. But you see my point...those Ravens receivers were proactive (i.e. ohhh, the ball is high or this guy is covering me tight...I WILL win this battle and get the ball). Just never saw this kind of performance from our WR's...they were looking for the perfect throw every time.

 

Think Williams for Calvin Johnson straight up would do?

It's a start...I'd settle for AJ Green if that doesn't work

[Bill from NYC]

What do we have and what do we need are two different things. Watching the Ravens game yesterday I was impressed with how the Raven's receivers are both finesse and aggressive. For instance, I saw Bolden and Smith go up and fight for an underthrown ball. That is a great attribute in that not every pass will be perfect...we know that. But Bolden and Smith made extra effort to go to the ball and fight for the ball (even if it was high or off target).

 

What we have is SJ13 who I really admire, is a great route runner and quick off the LOS, but I haven't seen the aggressiveness in going after balls off target. Not a knock against him as most WR's don't; it's as if a WR nowadays expects the ball perfectly in stride and when it is, it's beautiful. Chan's offense relied mostly on perfectly timed routes. In Flacco/Bolden's case, throw the ball up and let Anquan get it.

 

Nelson is a finesse guy and Graham is a speedster (not a fight for it at all costs guy). Don Jones is sooo on and off and has great size but never saw the fighter in him.

 

So, in my opinion, we need a bigger guy, not a burner but decent speed, some brains and the ability (as evidenced in college game film) to go into a crowd and come down with the ball.

 

The best receiver I saw yesterday was Julio Jones.

[BringBackFergy]

 

 

The best receiver I saw yesterday was Julio Jones.

Jones was exceptional. Bolden worked for many of his catches and TD's as well.

[NewEra]

What we need is a QB that can throw the ball over 10 yards with any kind of accuracy consistently. Once we have a real QB, we'll know what kind of wrs we have imo

[swnybillsfan]

i was very impressed with bolden, he just looked to be so much stronger than anyone trying to defend him. big, strong dude with stickum hands, yeah, i'll take one of those.

[BringBackFergy]

What we need is a QB that can throw the ball over 10 yards with any kind of accuracy consistently. Once we have a real QB, we'll know what kind of wrs we have imo

I hear ya...but assuming Fitz wins our QB competition or in the event we start a Nassib, Wilson or Gannon, some throws will not be accurate but will be in the ballpark. It is in those instances we need a strong physical receiver who wants to get the ball more than the DB.

[BillsBackersChicago]

Fergy, I will admit that I didn't see all of the game, but most of the end zone throws to Bolden were not off target throws that he had to go up and get, they were thrown exactly on target, and meant to be thrown to a spot where only the big tall strong receiver would have the good chance at the ball (or more of a chance than the DB). As for SJ not catching off target balls, I could not disagree more. He had more than one ridiculous one handed catches this year. I can't remember the game, but it was toward the end of the season, and he layed out for a poorly thrown pass, caught it one handed, and then stood up, spun the ball and went back to the huddle (we were losing so he was all business). I agree that DJ almost never wins a one on one battle and TJ probably can't given his size (its not what he's meant to do), but Nelson is a bigger receiver who has fought for his share of passes (as has Chandler). The one pass that almost no receiver can catch easily is the one that's behind him as he runs a crossing route, and Fitz threw those all season. when our receivers were able to make the adjustment for the throw being behind them, they often had to slow dow or stop their routes, effectively killing their YAC, but when they were in full sprint,there's just nothing they or anyone else could do. We have a lot of problems and I think a big super talented #1 WR (in the mold of Bolden, AJ Green, Megatron, etc.) would be nice, but you can't say SJ didn't fight for balls that were not well thrown.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I wonder if Stevie can put a bit more muscle on his frame and maintain his agility. I don't see why he can't run the same kinds of plays that Boldin executed perfectly yesterday.

[biggerdaddynj]

Last year Buddy said he wanted big receivers like the ones you guys are talking about ones who are "open even when they're not". His solution last year was to reach too high for a burner wIth bad hands who had a QB who couldn't get him the ball deep. Last year we couldn't make a real play for V Jax who fit that bill. Looks like we're nce again not going to be able to get someone like that in free agency--would have loved Danario Alexander but the 1st rd tender kills it. That means it's bidding too much for Bowe who might want to stay with Reid there. You're left going for Jennings (not big but a legit outside WR) or taking a risk on Jerome Simpson or making some other unexciting move (Ramses Barden). We have a better chance at supplementing the offense with a pass catching TE--Bennett, Keller, Cook. Sadly, that means we're drafting a WR along with the franchise QB and some LBs.' We need more picks!! It would be nice to have a young QB WR tandem developing together. Maybe we can use FA to address our LB needs--looks like there are plenty out there--Wheeler, Kruger, Smith, Barwin at OLB, Spencer as a DE/OLB and the ILBs are weak except for Brad Jones, Maualuga and Dannell Ellerbe. Then we can trade down and go WR or QB in round one and vice versa in round two.

 

In the end, we'll be lucky te re-sign Byrd and Levitre, and use FA to add one solid LB along with a mediocre WR and mediocre second LB.

Edited January 22, 2013 by biggerdaddynj

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

Quick question..

 

Who's gonna throw to this perceived receiver???

[Buftex]

Jones was exceptional. Bolden worked for many of his catches and TD's as well.

 

I think Bolden has been one of the most under-appreciated players in the NFL for the last decade or so...he caught everything thrown to him in Arizona, no matter the cost (remember the jaw-breaker) and has risen to the occaision in Baltimore, now that they have decided to rely a little more on the pass. Great player.

[Dragonborn10]

Nix was right when he said they need a guy who is open when he is not open. Why he said that and then drafted Graham I am not sure. Stevie is a lovely #2 but that is all he will ever be. Graham stays on potential but with a new staff he probably needs to have a breakout year to make it to year three. The rest can go and that includes Nelson. We need a dominant TE not a slow plodding possession WR. I would break the bank and go after Greg Jennings.

[BringBackFergy]

Fergy, I will admit that I didn't see all of the game, but most of the end zone throws to Bolden were not off target throws that he had to go up and get, they were thrown exactly on target, and meant to be thrown to a spot where only the big tall strong receiver would have the good chance at the ball (or more of a chance than the DB). As for SJ not catching off target balls, I could not disagree more. He had more than one ridiculous one handed catches this year. I can't remember the game, but it was toward the end of the season, and he layed out for a poorly thrown pass, caught it one handed, and then stood up, spun the ball and went back to the huddle (we were losing so he was all business). I agree that DJ almost never wins a one on one battle and TJ probably can't given his size (its not what he's meant to do), but Nelson is a bigger receiver who has fought for his share of passes (as has Chandler). The one pass that almost no receiver can catch easily is the one that's behind him as he runs a crossing route, and Fitz threw those all season. when our receivers were able to make the adjustment for the throw being behind them, they often had to slow dow or stop their routes, effectively killing their YAC, but when they were in full sprint,there's just nothing they or anyone else could do. We have a lot of problems and I think a big super talented #1 WR (in the mold of Bolden, AJ Green, Megatron, etc.) would be nice, but you can't say SJ didn't fight for balls that were not well thrown.

I love SJ as much as any fan and I spoke out of turn saying he didn't give it his all on catches...he did make some incredible "finesse" catches. I guess I was referring to the kind of routes where Bolden was one on one with the CB and sprints 15-20 yds, turns around and he has to jump up and grab it...the CB was on him all day and he fought for the ball with success. The one TD I saw he literally grabbed the ball in the air while the safety was going for it and threw the DB down to the turf at the same time. I understand your point but Bolden showed me a different type of receiver to have in our arsenal....like these other guys were saying: a receiver who is open even if he isn't.

 

[White Linen]

I love SJ as much as any fan and I spoke out of turn saying he didn't give it his all on catches...he did make some incredible "finesse" catches. I guess I was referring to the kind of routes where Bolden was one on one with the CB and sprints 15-20 yds, turns around and he has to jump up and grab it...the CB was on him all day and he fought for the ball with success. The one TD I saw he literally grabbed the ball in the air while the safety was going for it and threw the DB down to the turf at the same time. I understand your point but Bolden showed me a different type of receiver to have in our arsenal....like these other guys were saying: a receiver who is open even if he isn't.

 

I think you're picking on the wrong guy. It's not that Stevie won't attempt the types of catches you're describing, it's that his QB doesn't throw those kind of balls. What the people questioning your position are saying is that we don't know what Stevie would do, and what his maximum potential as a WR is, because our QB sucks.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Triple Threat

[dbflaBill]

Ive said it in other post. As long as we dont have to over pay like the Jags did for Laurent Robinson, Danario Alexander would be a huge threat on this team. At 6'6" and with 6'7" Chandler(provided he comes back healthy). It could potenially turn into a potent WR core

[BringBackFergy]

Ive said it in other post. As long as we dont have to over pay like the Jags did for Laurent Robinson, Danario Alexander would be a huge threat on this team. At 6'6" and with 6'7" Chandler(provided he comes back healthy). It could potenially turn into a potent WR core

 

Yes, that type of guy...or a Plax type or Brandon Marhsall (minus the head case). Tallish, strong, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound....and come down with the football.

[mountainwampus]

EVERY winning team has been stocking up on tall, stud receivers and tight ends for years. That has been a definite trend. The Bills tried, but whiffed horribly with Hardy and Easley. They need to keep trying. These late round, 6 footers aren't going to cut it. We've already got Jones and Graham, and they aren't cutting it. I'm hoping they are both replaced ASAP.

[mrags]

EVERY winning team has been stocking up on tall, stud receivers and tight ends for years. That has been a definite trend. The Bills tried, but whiffed horribly with Hardy and Easley. They need to keep trying. These late round, 6 footers aren't going to cut it. We've already got Jones and Graham, and they aren't cutting it. I'm hoping they are both replaced ASAP.

speaking of this. When we got Chan, all the fans knew that Stevie was special. Now he's our #1. Regardless if its arguable if he should be or not, he was no where on anyone's radar before Chan came. Chan really made him something special. Now I have no doubt that he will continue under Marrone or anyone else.

What I wonder, is maybe Marrone sees something with one of our other WRs. Easley for example. Chan couldn't or wouldn't try and get anything out of him, I wonder if Marrone can do something with one of these guys like Chan did for SJ.

 

Here's to hoping

[mountainwampus]

I think you're picking on the wrong guy. It's not that Stevie won't attempt the types of catches you're describing, it's that his QB doesn't throw those kind of balls. What the people questioning your position are saying is that we don't know what Stevie would do, and what his maximum potential as a WR is, because our QB sucks.

 

So, you think Ravens would be Super Bowl bound if Flacco was throwing to SJ and Jones instead of Smith and Boldin? That's hard to fathom. Our guys don't even compare to theirs, regardless of who is playing QB.

[bobobonators]

What we need is a QB that can throw the ball over 10 yards with any kind of accuracy consistently. Once we have a real QB, we'll know what kind of wrs we have imo

 

Stevie Johnson pre-Fitzpatrick: 2 season, 16 games, 12 receptions, 112yds, 2TDs

 

Scott Chandler pre-Fitzpatrick: 3 seasons, 10 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0TDs

 

With all due respect to your opinion and other people's constant jabs on Fitzpatrick, we have nothing but 7th round draft picks, and practice squad fodder as WR and TE's on this team. (we'll see what Graham turns into)

 

Bills WR:

 

Nelson - undrafted

SJ - 7th round

Graham - 3rd round

Brad Smith - no comment

R. Martin - undrafted

Donald Jones - undrafted

 

In other words, we have GARBAGE at WR. Fitz keeps getting all the blame though. While Nelson and Stevie have been able to produce on the field we don't have elite talent at that position.

Edited January 22, 2013 by bobobonators

[NewEra]

 

I hear ya...but assuming Fitz wins our QB competition or in the event we start a Nassib, Wilson or Gannon, some throws will not be accurate but will be in the ballpark. It is in those instances we need a strong physical receiver who wants to get the ball more than the DB.

 

If he wins, I'd prefer to lose every game and get the #1 pick. I never think like that, but I can't deal with this fitz guy anymore. He's now the enemy. He does nothing but hurt our team. I don't want to see him win. I can't stand him. I may break my consecutive games watched streak at around 180 if he's the starter. Can't fathom the situation. I'm getting ill just thinking about it.

 

 

 

Stevie Johnson pre-Fitzpatrick: 2 season, 16 games, 12 receptions, 112yds, 2TDs

 

Scott Chandler pre-Fitzpatrick: 3 seasons, 10 games, 0 receptions, 0 yds, 0TDs

 

With all due respect to your opinion and other people's constant jabs on Fitzpatrick, we have nothing but 7th round draft picks, and practice squad fodder as WR and TE's on this team. (we'll see what Graham turns into)

 

Bills WR:

 

Nelson - undrafted

SJ - 7th round

Graham - 3rd round

Brad Smith - no comment

R. Martin - undrafted

Donald Jones - undrafted

 

In other words, we have GARBAGE at WR. Fitz keeps getting all the blame though. While Nelson and Stevie have been able to produce on the field we don't have elite talent at that position.

 

watch him throw the ball over 10 yards lately? There's no argument anyone can make about fitz not being the major problem. Who cares where these guys were drafted? Doesn't mean they aren't capable players. Chandler was a backup to gates and witten. Good argument though. Keep thinking fitz isn't the problem.

[bobobonators]

If he wins, I'd prefer to lose every game and get the #1 pick. I never think like that, but I can't deal with this fitz guy anymore. He's now the enemy. He does nothing but hurt our team. I don't want to see him win. I can't stand him. I may break my consecutive games watched streak at around 180 if he's the starter. Can't fathom the situation. I'm getting ill just thinking about it.

 

 

 

watch him throw the ball over 10 yards lately? There's no argument anyone can make about fitz not being the major problem. Who cares where these guys were drafted? Doesn't mean they aren't capable players. Chandler was a backup to gates and witten. Good argument though. Keep thinking fitz isn't the problem.

 

Who cares where these guys were drafted? I do. It means that we've been ignoring the position for the past 5-8 years. You can only find so many Stevie Johnson's and Marques Colston's before you have to address the position. Stevie is unable to outrun a DB when he has a 5yd lead on him.

 

Martin, Jones, Smith are GARBAGE at WR. Not even average - GARBAGE.

 

I'm not ignoring Fitz's limitations, but you deny the fact that Fitz has been able to get Stevie - a nobody before Fitz became starter - 3 consecutive 1,000yd seasons. It's just in response to your "real QB" comment.

[NewEra]

 

 

Who cares where these guys were drafted? I do. It means that we've been ignoring the position for the past 5-8 years. You can only find so many Stevie Johnson's and Marques Colston's before you have to address the position. Stevie is unable to outrun a DB when he has a 5yd lead on him.

 

Martin, Jones, Smith are GARBAGE at WR. Not even average - GARBAGE.

 

I'm not ignoring Fitz's limitations, but you deny the fact that Fitz has been able to get Stevie - a nobody before Fitz became starter - 3 consecutive 1,000yd seasons. It's just in response to your "real QB" comment.

 

If someone else was the QB, Stevie would be talking about 3 consecutive 1300 yards- 10 td seasons. No one has any idea how good our other wrs are. Any route they run over 10 yards is a wash. When your QB can only throw 20% of the pass chart, you can't scout a WR. I don't think these wrs are garbage. I think jones and Nelson might be ok with a real QB. A QB that can throw an entire playbook. Not 20% of it. Think what you like about our wrs and where they were drafted, the QB is the biggest problem. And it's not even close.

 

Which round was Fitzpatrick drafted? Oh yeah.

Edited January 22, 2013 by NewEra

[White Linen]

So, you think Ravens would be Super Bowl bound if Flacco was throwing to SJ and Jones instead of Smith and Boldin? That's hard to fathom. Our guys don't even compare to theirs, regardless of who is playing QB.

 

How you got Flacco and Super Bowl out of what I said is beyond me.

[biggerdaddynj]

Ive said it in other post. As long as we dont have to over pay like the Jags did for Laurent Robinson, Danario Alexander would be a huge threat on this team. At 6'6" and with 6'7" Chandler(provided he comes back healthy). It could potenially turn into a potent WR core

The Bills missed the boat on Danario Alexander, I believe they worked him out on September 24th and passed. Now he's a restricted free agent and SD will tender as hgh as a first rounder. Wonder who had the vision to pass on him after the work out? Same guy who thought Fitz was a franchise QB? Nice move!!!

Edited January 23, 2013 by biggerdaddynj

[albany c2]

I wouldn't mind a WR at #8, but remember we have so many holes to fill.

 

QB- Obvious

RT- Big question mark, I like Urbik at LG

MLB- I don't think Sheppard is our guy

OLB- How much longer does Barnett have? Is Bradham even any good? Bryan Scott is a JOKE

FS- When Jairus walks

SS- George Wilson had arguably the worst season out of anyone on our D, hopefully Searcy can excel in Pettine's scheme (Laron Landry did, and they have similar size and speed)

CB- McKelvin improved in limited time, but we still need alot of help here.

 

 

This is a defense-heavy draft.

 

My dream would be Jarvis Jones, Te'o, or Ogletree in the first.

 

Maybe Keenan Allen from Cal in the 2nd?

 

Then we go QB in the 3rd.

[CarolinaBill]

Too bad we didn't make a run at Alshon Jeffrey last yr...

[Pirate Angel]

You cant really go out up and fight for an 7 yard pass

[Solomon Grundy]

Quinton Patton is the guy we need opposite Stevie. The guy drops nothing unlike Donald Jones.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Too bad there is not anther Julio Jones in the draft.

Jones will have a Randy Moss type career with out the drama.

Everyone, including myself questioned the move by Dimitrof. But if you have a good qb, you need two good wr's and one good pass catching t.e. and you will win more than you lose.

the Falcons Oline is average, running backs are average, defense is average. They made it to the NFC championship game MOSTLY because of 4 guys- Ryan, White, Jones, Gonzalez.. All very good.

The rest of the team is average really.

[BringBackFergy]

You cant really go out up and fight for an 7 yard pass

 

You do when it is 3rd and goal at the 7 yd line and a TD wins you the game. That's where you throw it to the corner and let your big receiver go up and get it.

[BringBackFergy]

As shown in the Superbowl last night...tight coverage by CB on Bolden, off shoulder throw on the sideline, cornerback has an arm up under Bolden's chin, Bolden snares the ball and takes possession midair. They referenced it last night and talked about it this morning. Our WR's need to learn to fight for the ball and come down with it...not just make a half assed attempt to catch it, or shrug shoulders as if to say "was uncatchable" or immediately go into defensive mode and try to knock the ball down for fear of it being intercepted. They talked about Bolden again this morning...how he fights for the ball in tight coverage and consistently wins possession. This is something we need to see stressed during training camp with our new WR's coach.

[T master]

Cordarelle Patterson i think will be the next Boldin, I hope we can pick him up !

 

He is 6' 3" tall & 205 lbs but can add some weight & still be a Boldin type receiver. Boldin is 6' 1" & 223 lbs what they are saying about Patterson is some really good stuff !!

 

He could be the missing link in our offense !!

[JPS]

What we need is a QB that can throw the ball over 10 yards with any kind of accuracy consistently. Once we have a real QB, we'll know what kind of wrs we have imo

Exactly....

[BringBackFergy]

Exactly....

I understand we need an upgrade at QB, but nothing says you can't try and find a "fighter type" WR at the same time. My view of the current roster is this: I don't believe TJ Graham has the killer instinct to go up and get a ball when it is a 50/50 proposition...not sure Stevie J. is that type either (Stevie is a WR that likes to take the ball in stride and cross into the open field IMO), Nelson is a stud and tall but..... is he a receiver who is open even when he isn't? As for Jones, Smith, Ruvell and our Grade A reserves....well, that's why they didn't play all that much.

 

The point is...you can have an upgrade at QB AND at WR...just don't draft a smallish, 185 lb speedster or a journeyman who can get open sometimes...DRAFT or Acquire a taller, strong, possession WR who knows how to come down with the ball in a crowd. My feeling is that it can't be taught so much as it has to be demonstrated on film. If there is a WR that has those tendencies as demonstrated in college game film (or a FA WR)...you have to find him.

Edited February 4, 2013 by BringBackFergy

[NoSaint]

As shown in the Superbowl last night...tight coverage by CB on Bolden, off shoulder throw on the sideline, cornerback has an arm up under Bolden's chin, Bolden snares the ball and takes possession midair. They referenced it last night and talked about it this morning. Our WR's need to learn to fight for the ball and come down with it...not just make a half assed attempt to catch it, or shrug shoulders as if to say "was uncatchable" or immediately go into defensive mode and try to knock the ball down for fear of it being intercepted. They talked about Bolden again this morning...how he fights for the ball in tight coverage and consistently wins possession. This is something we need to see stressed during training camp with our new WR's coach.

 

this is going to sound like im piling on the thread about SJ13 not working out - but that is stuff you earn in the offseason. the qb and wr have to be on the same page. i know in the SB thread i commented on flacco being lucky to be hitting those so often, but its not all luck. he and his receivers were very much in sync and on the same page with him throwing to spots that they could make those plays on the ball, and in return them knowing where the ball would be going in order to work to get that position. for the most part those werent receivers fighting for errant throws like we see with fitz/stevie. its MUCH harder to unexpectedly have to adjust.

[BringBackFergy]

this is going to sound like im piling on the thread about SJ13 not working out - but that is stuff you earn in the offseason. the qb and wr have to be on the same page. i know in the SB thread i commented on flacco being lucky to be hitting those so often, but its not all luck. he and his receivers were very much in sync and on the same page with him throwing to spots that they could make those plays on the ball, and in return them knowing where the ball would be going in order to work to get that position. for the most part those werent receivers fighting for errant throws like we see with fitz/stevie. its MUCH harder to unexpectedly have to adjust.

I agree with your premise...that the QB and WR need to be on the same page; also, the QB needs to be able to put the ball somewhere in the neighborhood for the WR to make a play on the ball.

 

But I can't agree with the majority of posters who say that Fitz never threw the ball accurately...ever. He threw a fair amount of TD's this season...many by yards after catch which is the cornerstone of the Gailey offense (misdirection, screens, flood the throwing lanes, quick slants relying on safeties to mistackle or misread the receivers pattern). But with success comes failure...and in those instances where Fitz' throw was underneath or short, I can't think of a reception where the WR came down with a 50/50 ball. I've seen Chandler do it...but nothing like the 4 or 5 times I've seen Bolden win a possession battle for the ball in his last two games.