uncle flap Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/10/talent-what-talent-kyle-williams-blasts-bills-defensive-play.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/22/kyle-williams-lays-into-bills-defense/ Williams essentially suggested the Bills were overrated. "Well, I've got to look at it and say the talent is, uh, you know, I mean," Williams ended that thought and started over. "You're not very talented if you're doing what we've been doing, OK?," he continued. "I've said it from the very beginning when we were at training camp. Talent doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what things look like on paper, what you say. 'We're going to be good because look at this sheet of paper.' That doesn't matter. "It matters if you're playing fast, you play physical, you play together. It's everybody on defense. It starts up front, it works its way around." WIlliams basically went on to say it's a matter of execution, not game planning and scheming. IMO, there's something to say about the talent AND the coaching. Coming into the season, I definitely expected a lot more out of the D. Now it seems the players might have been overrated, but I still can't concede that there is a fundamental lack of talent. What I mean is that perhaps some of the players aren't as good as we thought they'd be, but I don't think the talent level matches up with their ranking as the worst D in the league. Sure, they don't have 11 Pro Bowlers out there, but they certainly don't have the worst 11 starters in the league top to bottom either. So, what gives? Obviously the players aren't making plays, but over rated or not, the D is not completely devoid of talent. To me, the results are indicative of poor coaching. Motivation is just as important as scheming. Wanny and Co. need to 1. put the players in a position to succeed, and 2. instill the confidence that what they're doing will work. Right now, what they're doing isn't working, and it couldn't possibly be worse. I think the players can certainly play much better individually, but I think it's up to the coaching staff to get them to do so. What do you guys think? Is Kyle Williams right? Or is he just toeing the company line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you don't have the talent to play the scheme at issue, then you have two options: (a) get different players; or (b) change the scheme. We are doing neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It's just like Fitz taking responsibility for the INT, when Pears is beat clean on a 3 man rush and he misses Stevie on the out route and it gets picked off. We know Wanny sucks as a DC, or that OL mess up sometimes. They just aren't going to throw coaches / other players under the bus. They are stand up guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 http://blogs.buffalo...nsive-play.html http://profootballta...-bills-defense/ WIlliams basically went on to say it's a matter of execution, not game planning and scheming. IMO, there's something to say about the talent AND the coaching. Coming into the season, I definitely expected a lot more out of the D. Now it seems the players might have been overrated, but I still can't concede that there is a fundamental lack of talent. What I mean is that perhaps some of the players aren't as good as we thought they'd be, but I don't think the talent level matches up with their ranking as the worst D in the league. Sure, they don't have 11 Pro Bowlers out there, but they certainly don't have the worst 11 starters in the league top to bottom either. So, what gives? Obviously the players aren't making plays, but over rated or not, the D is not completely devoid of talent. To me, the results are indicative of poor coaching. Motivation is just as important as scheming. Wanny and Co. need to 1. put the players in a position to succeed, and 2. instill the confidence that what they're doing will work. Right now, what they're doing isn't working, and it couldn't possibly be worse. I think the players can certainly play much better individually, but I think it's up to the coaching staff to get them to do so. What do you guys think? Is Kyle Williams right? Or is he just toeing the company line? Not top to bottom certainly. But we would be hard-pressed to find starting spots on other teams for Sheppard, Bradham, Barnett, A Williams, G Wilson, and Kelsay/Merriman. Add a couple good players who are under-performing in M Williams and Dareus, along with a promising rookie learning on the job in Gilmore and you have a perfect recipe for suckitude. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you don't have the talent to play the scheme at issue, then you have two options: (a) get different players; or (b) change the scheme. We are doing neither. Well they did switch from a 4-3 to 3-4 back to the 4-3 defense. I therefore conclude the players suck moreso than the coaches. suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinWPB Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Let me help translate Kyle's presser.. The defensive scheme doesn't fit some of our talent. The defensive play selection sucks.Some of us are stupid and some of us are playing like pussys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfCRaNg5EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgbe Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) My take is..... Currently, we have some talent, but Def coaching is not very good. When fewell was here, we had good coaching, but no talent. I think this describes the trouble with the Bills.... They can't seem to put together talent and coaching... It seems they can't identify what type of problem they have in the heat of it. Edited October 22, 2012 by markgbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) My take is..... Currently, we have some talent, but Def coaching is not very good. When fewell was here, we had good coaching, but no talent. I think this describes the trouble with the Bills.... They can't seem to put together talent and coaching... It seems they can't identify what type of problem they have in the heat of it. well, i think they know the problem is centered right up in the LBs and middle of the field, but i dont think theres a good situation short of cheat and hope you dont get exploited elsewhere. talent issues are pretty tough to fix midseason. im still surprised morrison hasnt gotten a shot - how in the world did he fall so far so fast? good for the raiders, and then doesnt do much for the jags and then cant even dress here. he was a hot commodity just 2-3 years ago (i know thats forever in nfl years but still) Edited October 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My take is..... Currently, we have some talent, but Def coaching is not very good. When fewell was here, we had good coaching, but no talent. I think this describes the trouble with the Bills.... They can't seem to put together talent and coaching... It seems they can't identify what type of problem they have in the heat of it. Boy do I miss Perry Fewell.... He certainly looks good for the Giants. I would be very happy with Gailey as OC and Fewell as DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Boy do I miss Perry Fewell.... He certainly looks good for the Giants. I would be very happy with Gailey as OC and Fewell as DC You miss Fewell? I even miss George Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to question a play call that has Kyle Williams dropping in to pass coverage. Any coach that calls that sucks and not the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to question a play call that has Kyle Williams dropping in to pass coverage. Any coach that calls that sucks and not the player. Titans were covering Scott Chandler w/ a DT.... See the 2nd down play on the last drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to question a play call that has Kyle Williams dropping in to pass coverage. Any coach that calls that sucks and not the player. Yeah. Merriman fine as he is used to doing that. Even a Maybin type as he is at least built for it. But Kyle Williams of all people? Maybe will see Gilmore as a nose tackle next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Bronson Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I never thought I would be saying this, but I would rather have George Edwards coaching this defense at this time. Wannstedt has the attitude of a mule, and that will continue to maintain our position at the bottom. I as many thought he would turn this defense around for the better. We got the total opposite.. Edited October 22, 2012 by Roc Bronson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Well they did switch from a 4-3 to 3-4 back to the 4-3 defense. I therefore conclude the players suck moreso than the coaches. suck Organizationally, the GM has waffled on decisions and used resources to cover up his bad decisions. Going from a cover 2 4-3 to a 3-4 and back to a 4-3 under scheme eats up a lot of resources. They tried to accelerate the defensive scheme change and inevitable growing pains by going after UFA's Williams and Anderson. That hasn't worked either. An organization that commits to something as mammoth as a defensive change (or a QB) that fails will always be on the treadmill to nowhere. It's why the Buddy Nix rebuild has failed already: he himself set it back with horrible decisions he needed to get right. And people wonder why real HC's don't want to come to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Williams is right. The Bills do not have the talent to play completely vanilla passive defense and stop NFL offenses circa 2012. PS: A good question though is what team does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Titans were covering Scott Chandler w/ a DT.... See the 2nd down play on the last drive Doesn't make it right. Titans D blows too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Coaching call's the wildcat and passes out of the wildcat... coaching decides when to go for 2 points instead of 1.. In last nights Steelers game.. they didn't !@#$ around and go for 1.. the tied it going for 2.. Coaching decides when to blitz.. I see plenty of problems with coaching.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you don't have the talent to play the scheme at issue, then you have two options: (a) get different players; or (b) change the scheme. We are doing neither. I don't think we have the linebackers to play any scheme. I thought we had the defensive lineman to play the 4-3, but it hasn't worked out that way. Our inexperience at CB would be a problem in any defensive system. So I somewhat agree with you, they need more players. I feel their talent is better suited for the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to question a play call that has Kyle Williams dropping in to pass coverage. Any coach that calls that sucks and not the player. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timba Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 What do you guys think? Is Kyle Williams right? Or is he just toeing the company line? I think Kyle is blaming what he has control over, which makes a lot of sense. He can't do anything about Wannstedt being his DC, but he can affect his play on the field and attempt to inspire the other guys on the field to handle their responsibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You miss Fewell? I even miss George Edwards. wooooooooooooow. NO, Edwards was terrible also. We parade awful coaches through this City. If you miss anyone, miss Wade Phillips and Fewell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) So says Nick Barnett. "As far as the schematics of this defense, this is one of the best schemes you can have in the NFL, for me personally. We just didn’t execute. That’s the problem." “As players, we have to take responsibility and go out there and execute. We didn’t, and we shouldn’t be talking about this in Week Seven." Jesus, I'm so tired of hearing the same generic, meaningless bull ****. Seriously, we're about halfway through the season and we don't know how to execute? Not even a little? We're giving up yards and points in unprecedented hoardes. Even a tiny bit of execution would help. Are the players that undisciplined? Edited October 22, 2012 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The defense has been bad. The second half yesterday they were not. They allowed two scores both on short fields following fitz turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gailey on why no coaching changes will be made... http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2012/10/22/gailey-on-why-no-coaching-changes/ I think Gailey and his staff are fired at the end of the season, if not earlier. I just don't see us winning more than 1-2 more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It is coaching when you are unable to put players in a position to succeed or coach up players so that you can see a noticeable improvement in performance from game to game. All these players at one time with the exception of a few walk-ons were top college selections and on most folks draft boards. Look at the Texans for Pete's sake, they were cellar-dwellers and in one year Wade Phillips took them from the bottom to the number 2 defense in the league. The parts were there, but they needed a coach that would put them in the best position possible for the talent they had to stop what opposing teams were doing. What do folks expect players to say, "our coaches aren't getting it done"? How would you like to be a player with the stigma of being a coach-killer on your resume, it just is not good business for players to point fingers at the coaches. And why does New England year after year using low draft picks and NFL cast-offs produce high quality teams - coaching plain and simple. Do what you can do best with the players you have, and make sure that everyone is accountable. We have had poor secondary coaching for that past decade yet we keep the same secondary coach year after year - why? Justin Rogers was wandering around yesterday looking like he had no clue who to cover if they had two receivers on one side and one ran underneith the other off the line of scrimmage - we ended up with two dbs covering the same receiver running the skinny post while the other ran an underneith out and had an easy reception at the sticks to convert one of many 3rd and longs. Wanny is not getting it done and needs to go. Some players are underperforming, but as a coach you need to know when to sit a guy and do what you need to do to help him get his head back into the game. I just see his hands-off, going through the motions, coaching approach rubbing off on a defensive unit that seems to be just going through the motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So says Nick Barnett. Jesus, I'm so tired of hearing the same generic, meaningless bull ****. Seriously, we're about halfway through the season and we don't know how to execute? Not even a little? We're giving up yards and points in unprecedented hoardes. Even a tiny bit of execution would help. Are the players that undisciplined? its odd to me that he went so far as to say one of the best schematically in the league if its all on the coaches. several players have come out blaming the players.... i dunno. guessing at what happens behind closed doors can be tough but something is certainly up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wanted to chuck my TV out the window last night when I heard re: Dick LaBeau on SNF: "adjustments are my favorite part of the game. Sure, you come in with your Plan A, but if that doesn't work, you move to Plan B, then C, and so on." IF THE PLAYERS CAN'T !@#$ING EXECUTE THE SCHEME, GIVE THEM SOMETHING THEY CAN !@#$ING DO. IF THE SEVEN PLAYERS IN COVERAGE CAN'T PROTECT THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, 15 YARDS FROM THE LOS ON 3rd and 8, THEN SEND ONE OR TWO GUYS ON A !@#$ING BLITZ. WHAT ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT? GIVING UP 15 YARDS DOWN THE MIDDLE ON 3RD AND 8!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wanted to chuck my TV out the window last night when I heard re: Dick LaBeau on SNF: "adjustments are my favorite part of the game. Sure, you come in with your Plan A, but if that doesn't work, you move to Plan B, then C, and so on." IF THE PLAYERS CAN'T !@#$ING EXECUTE THE SCHEME, GIVE THEM SOMETHING THEY CAN !@#$ING DO. IF THE SEVEN PLAYERS IN COVERAGE CAN'T PROTECT THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, 15 YARDS FROM THE LOS ON 3rd and 8, THEN SEND ONE OR TWO GUYS ON A !@#$ING BLITZ. WHAT ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT? GIVING UP 15 YARDS DOWN THE MIDDLE ON 3RD AND 8!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!! Well put. This is exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 All these players at one time with the exception of a few walk-ons were top college selections and on most folks draft boards. Look at the Texans for Pete's sake, they were cellar-dwellers and in one year Wade Phillips took them from the bottom to the number 2 defense in the league. The parts were there, but they needed a coach that would put them in the best position possible for the talent they had to stop what opposing teams were doing. some parts were there. other parts were not there. they were good up front. they had one of the worst secondaries in the history of the nfl - and added a top FA corner and safety in the same offseason as wade and had added a first round corner the year before in addition to adding guys like brooks reed and jj watt to an already strong front 7. its not like wade had a magic scheme that made the corners great - they added talent to an all time bad position group which made a BIG difference. wade helped, but not like people give credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Adams Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It's just like Fitz taking responsibility for the INT, when Pears is beat clean on a 3 man rush and he misses Stevie on the out route and it gets picked off. We know Wanny sucks as a DC, or that OL mess up sometimes. They just aren't going to throw coaches / other players under the bus. They are stand up guys. No offense to you at all jonramz, just piggy-backing off a fact you bring up: I'm sick and tired of "stand up" guys or "high-character" guys. We have had nothing but that since Levy II. All we've done with these well-behaved citizens is lose. It's time for some guys with attitude. Those guys seem to give a damn, unlike our choir boys. BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gailey on why no coaching changes will be made... http://blogs.buffalo...aching-changes/ I think Gailey and his staff are fired at the end of the season, if not earlier. I just don't see us winning more than 1-2 more games. Gailey is in the last year of his deal, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 its odd to me that he went so far as to say one of the best schematically in the league if its all on the coaches. several players have come out blaming the players.... i dunno. guessing at what happens behind closed doors can be tough but something is certainly up. This loss stung more than Niners and Pats (IMO) only because we knew what the Titans had to offer (a RB who always has a big day against us so we should have game planned around him more, a "older QB" who may have been ripe for pressures/sacks, and a lackluster secondary)...we pissed it all away. Now the infighting will begin...at One Bills Drive and here at TBD. See thread "Remember the Titans"...hoping we don't become the New York Jets of the second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarkLessWagMore Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) over the course of 4 quarters of football at The Ralph (2nd half of NE and 1st half of Tenn), this "defense" gave up 10 straight scoring drives, 9 of those were touchdowns! That has to be an NFL record for defensive futility by a home team. And there is nothing wrong with this "defense"? Do yourself a favor Nick, don't go into coaching. Edited October 22, 2012 by BarkLessWagMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wanted to chuck my TV out the window last night when I heard re: Dick LaBeau on SNF: "adjustments are my favorite part of the game. Sure, you come in with your Plan A, but if that doesn't work, you move to Plan B, then C, and so on." IF THE PLAYERS CAN'T !@#$ING EXECUTE THE SCHEME, GIVE THEM SOMETHING THEY CAN !@#$ING DO. IF THE SEVEN PLAYERS IN COVERAGE CAN'T PROTECT THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, 15 YARDS FROM THE LOS ON 3rd and 8, THEN SEND ONE OR TWO GUYS ON A !@#$ING BLITZ. WHAT ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT? GIVING UP 15 YARDS DOWN THE MIDDLE ON 3RD AND 8!? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!! Great point...the only thing Wanny adjusted at halftime was his pink thong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) over the course of 4 quarters of football (2nd half of NE and 1st half of Tenn), this "defense" gave up 10 straight scoring drives, 9 of those were touchdowns! That has to be an NFL record for defensive futility by a home team. And there is nothing wrong with this "defense"? Do yourself a favor Nick, don't go into coaching. well, what hes saying is the players are to blame.... they cant do what they are being asked to do, who says they execute when you ask them to do something else. which based on seeing them regularly out of position, missing tackles, etc.... the scheme may well be effective if people just did their jobs. talent evaluation, or motivation are a different discussion but purely schematically - we should be playing much better. Edited October 22, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) its odd to me that he went so far as to say one of the best schematically in the league if its all on the coaches. several players have come out blaming the players.... i dunno. guessing at what happens behind closed doors can be tough but something is certainly up. Ya. It's just like the woman that gets beaten and abused yet keeps going back to the same guy and with the mindset that she did something wrong. That's what Chan and Wanny have on these guys. They are making them feel like they are at fault for all of this debacle. It all comes down to the horrible defensive scheme/coach/playcalls and the absolutely stubbornness of Chan and his pass happy attack. He called a better game on offense yesterday (best of the year possibly) but in the end, with the game on the line, he manages to convert back again, and make a bad decision at the wrong time. He outsmarted himself. Why is it I get the feeling that Chan was saying to himself before that play "ya know what, we've ran up and down the field in them all day, used multiple screens against them all day and succeeded in all of these things, but you know what would really fool them right now? A pass play to the outside that my below average QB has a hard time completing, ya! That's it, they'll never expect that" Edited October 22, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarkLessWagMore Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 well, what hes saying is the players are to blame.... they cant do what they are being asked to do, who says they execute when you ask them to do something else. which based on seeing them regularly out of position, missing tackles, etc.... the scheme may well be effective if people just did their jobs. talent evaluation, or motivation are a different discussion but purely schematically - we should be playing much better. Thanks for the explanation but if you don't think that its BOTH the scheme and the players to blame, you're mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Well if that's the case then everyone on that freaking defense should just admit they're not good enough to play in the NFL. It's blatantly obvious that the Bills base defense is incapable of stopping anyone. So as DC what do you do, do you continue to run the base defense in the hopes of something happening or do you start moving people around trying frantically to find that spark? Mario Williams said during an interview yesterday "I don't care what anyone thinks". Fine, put his ass on the bench and put Carrington in. There's no way that Carrington and Merriman could be worse as DE's than Williams, Kelsay and Anderson because they've been virtually non-existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts