NFL Adopts new blackout policy

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303561504577495083707417526.html

[Mr. WEO]

No more balckout rule? Only need 85% of seats filled? Missed that.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting article with attendance declining in each of the last 5 years.

 

This topic relates to my post on the stadium experience… I like some of the ideas mentioned in this WSJ piece but I wonder if the NFL's plans are really going to enhance the stadium experience and draw more fans… or do the opposite.

 

From a strict economic standpoint, if paid attendance is declining, shouldn't they at least stop with the ticket increases to let the market adjust itself?

[nobody]

No more balckout rule? Only need 85% of seats filled? Missed that.

 

 

Each team can decide what level they want to use. So the Bills or any team could still decide that they need 100%.

[MattM]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting article with attendance declining in each of the last 5 years.

 

This topic relates to my post on the stadium experience… I like some of the ideas mentioned in this WSJ piece but I wonder if the NFL's plans are really going to enhance the stadium experience and draw more fans… or do the opposite.

 

From a strict economic standpoint, if paid attendance is declining, shouldn't they at least stop with the ticket increases to let the market adjust itself?

 

That's what you'd think would make sense, but that's the LAST thing the owners will want to do....

[bbb]

That's what you'd think would make sense, but that's the LAST thing the owners will want to do....

 

Yeah, but it even says the Jets just lowered prices on 12,000 seats. When the Bills lowered The Rockpile seats, those were gone instantly it seemed.

 

I have always been and will continue to be, I'm sure, all about being at the game. The communal feel is what you're there for. You'll probably never get the same knowledge of what is happening on every play like you do on TV, but I'm OK with that.

 

I do like that ideas of wireless wifi (right now I can't get crap at the stadium) and apps that show replays and all that........Just Jack mentioned that Replay thing on the other thread. I have one, but I've never brought it - I'm not going to lug that around. Being able to see things on your phone will make it easy.

[Just in Atlanta]

How can Jacksonville NOT be on that list? Stadium looks like an XFL game every time I watch them.

 

Surprised to see Buffalo so high. Is that because December games are so cold and often futile? Or, is the stadium just bigger than the market? Thought Buffalo would at least be middle of the pack.

 

Nothing remarkable here, apps and WiFi are great, but lower the damn prices already. Don't mind spending $10 for beers. It limits drunks. But I don't understand how families can even afford to go to more than one game a year at an average price of $77 per ticket.

 

And one more thing, thanks for the great link, but to give readers a better glimpse on your post, and to circumvent the mods:

 

[Please fix this subject]

[Hplarrm]

No more balckout rule? Only need 85% of seats filled? Missed that.

The blackout rule is simply a stupid idea to anyone who realizes that the true market is where the money is. in the NFL, where the money resides is with the TV networks. The amount of cash generated from the TV contract deal far outpaces the relative nickles and dimes which come from ticket sales. Even when one throws in the realtive peanut and cracker jack level of money which comes from stadium refreshment, parking and on field advertisments, everything I have read says that the cash generated by TV sales not only far outgenerate the total ticket take but is simply ridiculously larger than the marginal benefit of selling a few thousand more tickets to avoid a blackout.

 

By blacking out a game a team forgoes millions of bucks of advertising the product and its sponsors to the home TV market.

 

Still some of the owners cling to a commitment to the old days when the marginal value of a few more ticket sales was a lot of momry when compared top the take from the CBA.

 

Blackouts are financially stupid and the quicker we get rid of them the better.

[Meathead]

blackouts havent made sense for a long time, its amazing it took them this long to do something

 

i wonder how popular the smart phone replays will really be? i always just brought a radio to tune to the in-stadium radio broadcast and watched the replays on the jumbotron. im not sure i would bother carrying a smartphone to see/hear the same stuff unless there was tons of unique content there. even then, do i really want to stand there squinting at my phone all day? idk

[JinWPB]

Bills numbers get a bit deceiving because of the Ralphs almost 740000 seating capacity, only 6 other stadiums in the NFL have more seats. Add to that the ice bowl games and the 12 year drought and presto. 2012 should be rocking the house. Interesting the Public address now has a freehand to incite the fans during the game, like the Bills ever needed that!Except in Toronto.

[machine gun kelly]

This can't be accurate. The Tampa Bucs have far less attendance than Buffalo on a week to week basis.

[BillnutinHouston]

Bills numbers get a bit deceiving because of the Ralphs almost 740000 seating capacity

 

Wow had no idea it was that big.

[MaineMoxie]

Wow had no idea it was that big.

 

Dude, in the Glory Years it held over 80,000. They reduced the number to add luxury boxes sometime in the late 90s or early 00s.

[BRAWNDO]

It will be interesting to see what the Bills decide about blackouts with all those December games.

[MaineMoxie]

It will be interesting to see what the Bills decide about blackouts with all those December games.

 

In the Glory Years, I seem to recall everyone wanting lots of December games because the Bills knew how to play in that kind of weather. Have we gotten that soft? Believe me, if I had the money, I'd be a season ticket holder and I'd be there for every single game, rain, snow, or shine.

Edited July 1, 2012 by MaineMoxie

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2674839.shtml?cat=565

 

In an effort to avoid local television blackouts the NFL is allowing teams to set a new benchmark for the percentage of tickets sold before blacking out games.

 

Prior to this change teams had to sell out 100 percent of their seats at home games or else the local market would be forced to blackout the game.

 

Now teams can set the percentage to avoid a blackout as long as its higher than 85% percent of seats sold.

[Beerball]

Ralph is cheap, he'll set it at 110%.

[Cub Reporter]

Thank you NFL! I can't tell you how many years I have been saying they should do this. I once went to a game that was blacked out and only the the top corners of the upper deck weren't sold. This is good, now we should be able to see every single Bills game on TV. Hopefully, we won't have to worry about black outs though because the Bills are going to be great this year!

[bull7734]

Ralph Wilson stadium is among the largest stadiums in the league. This 100% and now above 85% percent blackout rule is still crap. It should be set at 90 or 95% of the smallest capacity stadium in the league, for all teams. Why should each team be held to a different standard?

[mrags]

Don't mind spending $10 for beers. It limits drunks.

I disagree with this statemt 100%. By raising beer prices to such high levels it only adds to the drunken idiocy. Think about it. When you are tailgating you tell yourself "I'm just gonna make sure I'm good and lit now before I even walk into the gate, that way I don't have to buy any $10 beers inside the stadium"

this is the thinking of many. Especially those that fall into the 18-26 year old range. It's just the way it is. For a similar example, when I lived in Vegas, me and my boys refused to pay for $5-10 drinks at any clubs/casinos/hotels. We would simply pregame it at the Keno parlor in the Bellagio for an hour or 2 before we went out. Drinks were free while you were playing and you could lay a minimum of $1/game. If you played it right, you would walk away with 5-10 drinks and an extra $20 in your pocket every night. Just saying. Most younger individuals think that way. I could tell you how many times I've seem or tailgated with people at the games that could barely walk just getting in the door. IMO it males it worse.

[/dev/null]

Why does it have to be blackouts? Why can't it be whiteouts? Is the NFL Racist® or something?

[CowgirlsFan]

Ralph is cheap, he'll set it at 110%.

 

Jerry is GREEDY!!!!! Mine will be 110% too!!

[Taro T]

Jerry is GREEDY!!!!! Mine will be 110% too!!

If you're lucky, that's all it will be.

[Hplarrm]

Why does it have to be blackouts? Why can't it be whiteouts? Is the NFL Racist® or something?

Sure it is, but it has nothing to do with whether they call them blackouts or white outs.

 

Like society the existence of racism has vastly improved (and in particular the role of racist thinking in our society has vastly improved in conjunction with the work so many in the modern civil rights movement as WWI drew to a close.

 

Racism certainly still exists but is greatly reduced. The even better news is that such attitudes appeae to be far more prevalent in older folks and the good news is that in general older folks are gonna die first.

 

For those who still believe racism is the same, from my point of view they are simply wrong. As an African-American born in 1959, when I was born my mother could not take me to lunch in a lot of Woolworth's but within an amazingly short period of time when I graduated from an Ivy League school in 1981 if I had access to the cash I could have.

 

In 1989 when I actually had access to enough cash I could have actually even bought a Woolworth's I chose instead to devote my career to environmental protection as the experience I had gained hiking, canoeing, doing technical rock climbing, caving, etc cemented my love for the environment.

 

Racism had greatly diminished in my lifetime, but was far from eliminated in society. A white woman friend of mine and I were leaving a NYC fundraiser and flagged two cabs as we were headed in different directions. I had to ask her if it was OK for me to take the first one we flagged (displaying her prominently) as it was pretty doubtful an A-A young guy was going to be able to get a cab at night in NYC.

 

Generally, those of us A-As who life has happened to grace with achievements and access to cash can do well in a lot of living. However, on has only to look at the aggregate stats in a number of areas (incarcerations, legal punishment for similar crimes, even double blind studies of medical treatments offered to case descriptions where the variables given are pictures of racial types (itronically doctors not only prescribed the accepted cadillac treament for white patients more than these treatments for A-A patients with the same symptomatic decriptions, but they also tended to prescribe the best medical treatments less often to patients clearly female in pictures and also prescribe mental treatment and anxiety reducing drugs at a higher levels for a cohort of women patients than a cohort of white male patients.

 

If you are a minority on this society, the studies pretty clearly indicate that you will be given less of a break or harsher treatment than a white male would get.

 

Again going back to the NFL it was not long ago that A-A were simply not given jobs as HCs.

 

Fortunately the NFL has taken tangible steps to reverse this fact and instituted a requirement that all teams ar least consider and do one serious interview with an A-A job candidate. This in conjunction with other efforts like the NFL minoirty coaching intern program has kept the pipeline fuller and forced owners to at least pretend they have no racial animus. These efforts have coincided with a fast and steady increase in A-A HCs, coincided with the first SB with two A-A HCs and generally demonstrated how stupid racism is.

 

I have had a few discussions with folks wondering about the fact that productivity by US workers has increased drastically over the last life (60+ years) and continues to increase in troubled economic times. My answer is that it is pretty much my opinion that there are many factors for this but among them is the diminishing levels of racism and sexism in society.

 

Kust prior to WWII we had a workforce virtually completely made up of white men. What has happened since WWII forced a lot of white guys over seas and in our society's desperation Rosie the Riveter entered the factory and minorities like the Tuskeeggee air men opened the door for leaders like Colin Powell, we have simply improved the quality of our workforce substantially.

 

Even if racism or sexaiam still causes a biases leading to inefficiency and bias against individuals, overall lets say you the most talented AA's or women now enter the workforce. )Lets assign it the arbitrary number of 10%, if you system truly is egalitarian this new 10^ replsces the least competent white males and overall society's work and efficiency improves with an end to (or simply a diminishment in real life) racism amd sexism!

 

I am certain in my lifetime that things have gotten much better overall for A-As as individual citizens and for society as a whole due to diminishing (but not complete yet) lessening of racism.

[beerme1]

I disagree with this statemt 100%. By raising beer prices to such high levels it only adds to the drunken idiocy. Think about it. When you are tailgating you tell yourself "I'm just gonna make sure I'm good and lit now before I even walk into the gate, that way I don't have to buy any $10 beers inside the stadium"

this is the thinking of many. Especially those that fall into the 18-26 year old range. It's just the way it is. For a similar example, when I lived in Vegas, me and my boys refused to pay for $5-10 drinks at any clubs/casinos/hotels. We would simply pregame it at the Keno parlor in the Bellagio for an hour or 2 before we went out. Drinks were free while you were playing and you could lay a minimum of $1/game. If you played it right, you would walk away with 5-10 drinks and an extra $20 in your pocket every night. Just saying. Most younger individuals think that way. I could tell you how many times I've seem or tailgated with people at the games that could barely walk just getting in the door. IMO it males it worse.

 

Interesting commentary rags. Cant say that I agree or disagree much like selling beer an hour earlier. The tailgate is what it is. But I respect and appreciate your commentary and i'm 46 in the Van Miller Club and dont like the price of beers there or at the arena for Sabres games but it's no different anywhere else so your theory would be great to try. Conversely the lower price may have the opposite effect of what you think though.

[eball]

Wow, the Ralph is still the 8th largest stadium in the league. Didn't realize that.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I disagree with this statemt 100%. By raising beer prices to such high levels it only adds to the drunken idiocy. Think about it. When you are tailgating you tell yourself "I'm just gonna make sure I'm good and lit now before I even walk into the gate, that way I don't have to buy any $10 beers inside the stadium"

this is the thinking of many. Especially those that fall into the 18-26 year old range. It's just the way it is. For a similar example, when I lived in Vegas, me and my boys refused to pay for $5-10 drinks at any clubs/casinos/hotels. We would simply pregame it at the Keno parlor in the Bellagio for an hour or 2 before we went out. Drinks were free while you were playing and you could lay a minimum of $1/game. If you played it right, you would walk away with 5-10 drinks and an extra $20 in your pocket every night. Just saying. Most younger individuals think that way. I could tell you how many times I've seem or tailgated with people at the games that could barely walk just getting in the door. IMO it males it worse.

 

Screw that... Remember the old days when there was no security... Literally you could sneak in a 1/2 case of beer (cans) into the game under your parka!

 

Heck... Way back... Had a neighbor say they used to bring a beerball (not the poster) into the old Rockpile!

[plenzmd1]

Screw that... Remember the old days when there was no security... Literally you could sneak in a 1/2 case of beer (cans) into the game under your parka!

 

Heck... Way back... Had a neighbor say they used to bring a beerball (not the poster) into the old Rockpile!

We brought beer balls into Rich in the late 70s as well.. One did need to have a ticket for it however.

 

I think in the rock pile they actually allowed metal kegs..man, could you see one of those flying from the upper deck at the the Ralph?

[machine gun kelly]

God I miss the pile? Can you imagine rolling in a keg to section 212. Love it. Thanks for the laugh.

[Webster Guy]

Ralph Wilson stadium is among the largest stadiums in the league. This 100% and now above 85% percent blackout rule is still crap. It should be set at 90 or 95% of the smallest capacity stadium in the league, for all teams. Why should each team be held to a different standard?

Yeah I agree. We had more people at Bills games than Chicago had at Bears games. Their city alone is almost a 3M population with many millions more within blackout zone. Either way, i have a little piece of technology that lets me see the blacked out Bills games on my TV anyway, so I don't care.

[behind a post WMS69]

Yeah, but it even says the Jets just lowered prices on 12,000 seats. When the Bills lowered The Rockpile seats, those were gone instantly it seemed.

 

I have always been and will continue to be, I'm sure, all about being at the game. The communal feel is what you're there for. You'll probably never get the same knowledge of what is happening on every play like you do on TV, but I'm OK with that.

 

I do like that ideas of wireless wifi (right now I can't get crap at the stadium) and apps that show replays and all that........Just Jack mentioned that Replay thing on the other thread. I have one, but I've never brought it - I'm not going to lug that around. Being able to see things on your phone will make it easy.

 

In theory yes, but very few cellphones are bright enough to see video in the bright sunshine.

[Saratoga Leo]

Ralph Wilson stadium is among the largest stadiums in the league. This 100% and now above 85% percent blackout rule is still crap. It should be set at 90 or 95% of the smallest capacity stadium in the league, for all teams. Why should each team be held to a different standard?

Should ticket prices be the same also? In other words do you recommend Dallas, New Jersey or Washington average seat prices? Why should Buffalo have among the average lowest ticket price?

[Jim in Anchorage]

We brought beer balls into Rich in the late 70s as well.. One did need to have a ticket for it however.

 

I think in the rock pile they actually allowed metal kegs..man, could you see one of those flying from the upper deck at the the Ralph?

Rich stadium 70s-80s and carhart coveralls = many bottles MD 2020. We even smoked cigarettes!

[/dev/null]

it was pretty doubtful an A-A young guy was going to be able to get a cab at night in NYC.

 

If you are a minority on this society, the studies pretty clearly indicate that you will be given less of a break

 

Seriously, how many NYC Cabbies are white?

[cody]

Will teams be able to set different percentages for different games?

[Hplarrm]

Seriously, how many NYC Cabbies are white?

I for one would say that racism is most important not as an individual attitude (in fact our constitution is based on the fact that anyone can think anything no matter how stupid it is be they pretend-Naxis marching in Skokie, IL or Louis Farrakhan with his blather, a birther with their idiocy about Obama, or an NFL stakeholder feeling minorities lack certain talents due to their race.

 

Anyione can be be stupid and has a right to do so under our constituion. However, these stupid people though they can think whatever they want must live under certain restrictions for how they act act toward others if they choose to enjoy the benefits of American society and citizenship.

 

I do not care what any idiot thinks, but I do care alot about how they operate in public commerce in terms of providing fair and equalc access to public accomodations. Marge Schott can wear all the swastikas she wants but it simply is not acceptable for her to discriminate against hiring a HOF player like Barry Larkin simply because of the collor of his skin.

 

Very entertaining American Michael Moore used to havea TV show called TV Narion (on Fox Broadcasing ironically of all networks) and one of their bits featured a well-dressed black guy (I think he used actor Yaphet Cotto) and a slovenly dressed white guy standing a few dozen feet further down the road with them both hailing cabs.

 

As anyone with any awareness would expect, Moore had film of dozens of cabbies (both white and black) who buzzed by the well-dressed Cotto and picked up the white guy (whom it turned out had just been released from jail after doing a significant amount of time for manslaughter.

 

Yep, there were black cabbies who performed a racist act denying public accomodations to a black man merely due to his outside appearance. Yet, the problem here is not the individual but the problem here is their furthering the societal discrimination against an American citizen completely contrary to reality.

 

It is simply due to racism and stupid incorrect profiling that a black man cannot get a cab in NYC or a child is killed for the of walking around with Skittles and an iced tea in FL.

 

Sure the perpetrator was simply wrong in the conclusions he reached, but the important test right now is what does society do about the fact that a kid is dead. The important judgment yet to occur about incorrect decision-making and protecion of individual rights (did American citizen Trayvon Martin deserve the death penalities for going out for some Skittles.

 

It interests me a lot how society often tends to judge issues of racism, I really am not so concened about illegal aliens who run afould of the AZ papers please law, I am more concerned about legal American citizens who are forced to carry certain passes and documents whenever they walk the streets because some public authority chooses (incorectly in the case of my fellow American citizen) for some ID so he can merely walk or drive around.

 

AZ's trangressions are not about illegal immigrants they are all about American citizens whom our country long ago decided we all should be able to live free and breathe.

 

I think FL is simply insane to want to live in a world where Tryvon Martin's Dad needed to arm up and accompany his son on a trip to 7-11 so he can stand his ground and shoot some idiot who was quite willing to shoot his son because the idiot made a mistake and went against a police order that society did not need him to get out of his SUV and follow this kid who turned out to have Skittles.

 

Racism is not about the individual racist it is about the American citizen if that racist chooses to act on their idiocy to interfete with the God-Given rights of an American citizen (or any human being that he has no real idea whether they are an American citizen or not).

 

In particular I think all right thinking Americans (right thinking and right wing are clearly two different things here) would have serious problems with the heavy hand of guvmint being given not only the authority but in fact the demand that they harasss local Americans in some heavy handed search for illegal aliens who we are happy to pay low wages to come here and pick food and make-up hotel beds.

 

Cheap pliticas seem to be getting cheaper everyday. I am glad the NFL actually seems to be leading the way in making sure that the 60+% of players at least get a fair shot at being an HC (if they wish).

 

Ending societal racism simply means society performing better and actually walking the talk of American ideals of fairness!

[Rubes]

The interesting part of it is that teams can set whatever percentage they want, as long as it's above 85%. But the lower you set it, the more revenue you have to share with the league -- if you go above the level you set, those revenues above the level are shared with the league. So it's an incentive to go with higher percentages.

 

But percentage of what? Capacity? We can see how teams like JAX get around that issue.

 

Also an interesting question about if teams can set a certain percentage level on a per-game basis. I didn't see anything about that.

 

The problem for the Bills last year is that we had so many home games in December, which is usually bad, but especially bad when the team is in a tailspin. This year we have the same issue, but if we're at least in contention late in the season, that should help.

[Meathead]

thank you hplarrm for your calm detailed responses. you make some very good an interesting points

 

however, im afraid youre ignoring the white elephant in the room that a lot of black folks do, which is the full collection of reasons why black folks are profiled in this country. i dont mean to single you out personally, but i do feel like i have to address some of the assumptions youve made because i believe they arent entirely accurate and clarification is required so we can work to get past some of these difficult issues

 

sure, a great deal of profiling is just pure old fashioned racism. i grew up in that environment and battled it all the way, most of my early life i was disgusted by the behavior of the white majority, i am intimately familiar with entrenched white bias. weve come a long way to improve the prejudging of black folks for no good reason, and we still have some work to do on that

 

however that doesnt tell the whole story

 

profiling of black folks especially black males is also performed because black folks represent a massively disproportionate amount of the extreme violence that occurs in this country. thats a very tragic but very real truth we must always include in the discussion before we will be able to solve the problem of profiling. and it certainly isnt just white people profiling, you know as well as i do that black folks profile black folks all the time. ive been with my black friends who crossed the street when unfamiliar blacks were approaching or avoided driving through intersections with black youths on the sidewalks. black cabbies profile black fares because they have experienced that violence themselves. douchebag hispanic neighborhood watchmen profile young black males in hoodies because they commit the most burglaries in those neighborhoods. if the night watchman had been black he would have been out there doing exactly the same thing

 

and ironically, it appears that it was treyvon himself that initiated the actual physical violence in that case. certainly he himself doesnt deserve to be stalked by an over-zealous night watchman jerk off because hes black, but he also doesnt get a free pass to respond with extreme violence because someone is doing something he doesnt like. he responded the way a lot of young black males addicted to this ridiculous 'gangsta' culture do, that any perceived disrespect deserves swift and extreme violence. in this case, it was retaliation for a non-violent event, being stalked by a jerk. but if treyvon hadnt attacked that jerk treyvon wouldnt be dead. treyvon had ample chance to reach his destination and made the choice to alter his course and backtrack to go attack zimmerman. you do not have the right to brutally attack someone for doing something you dont like, and im afraid a lot of young blacks simply do not understand that right now

 

one thing that bothered me immensely was the disingenuousness of some black folks regarding this hoodie issue. if you spend any time in the ghetto like i do performing volunteer work and visiting the churches and food joints that i love, you will undoubted know that most of the flyers promoting events in the hood say 'no hoodies' on them. ive asked several black folks why that is and they look at me like im a fool before saying because hoodies are used by black folks to shield their identity in the hood while they commit crimes, thus they are 'menacing'. thats the word everyone i asked used, menacing. and yet, after the treyvon martin incident i saw all kinds of black folks walking around in major neighborhoods defiantly sporting their hoodies. the average white person has no idea about hoodies being banned in the ghetto, but black folks sure do. they knew they couldnt get away with that in their own neighborhoods without getting profiled, but somehow white folks get condemned for the same exact behavior. not very cool

 

i will wrap this up by pointing out what i think it the source of some of these inappropriate views by black folks, which is this ridiculous idea that blacks cant be racist because they dont have the 'power'. if there is one green dude on the planet walking around saying how much he dislikes and distrusts non-greenies, what do we call that one green dude? racist. unless he has a big ass ray gun he has no power, but he certainly is racist. and yet tons of black folks still honestly believe they cant be racist, apparently because they feel they cant exert power or some such nonsense. of course this simply frees anyone holding this idea to be as biased and hateful as they want to be. after all, if i cant be racist then hallelujah im gonna prejudge everybody

 

so to summarize, we certainly need to continue to focus on the issue of white racism to finish the job of of ensuring civil rights for all. however, i sternly believe we need to spend more time focusing on black racism and acknowledge the negative elements in what is mostly a beautiful black culture in this county. right now we are only addressing at most half the problem, and until we address the other elements we are simply delaying the inevitable

[West End Stench]

What the hell is going on here?

[dbow]

I a;ways thought the bar should be set in regards to the smallest stadium. If teams have to give more from ticket sales when they go over their set limit then I don't see many teams going with the 85%. Jacksonville, Tampa Bay are the most likely to set the bar that low. I'm betting Ralph goes with 90 or 95%.