Looking at the back-up QBs

[VirginiaMike]

In talking about Vince Young, here's a quote from the News on back-up QBs currently available: "The list of veteran free-agent quarterbacks still on the market is thin. Some of the QBs available beside Young include: ex-Steeler Dennis Dixon, 27; ex-Redskin John Beck, 31; ex-Charger Billy Volek, 36; ex-Ram A.J. Feeley, 35; and ex-Jaguar Luke McCown, 31".

 

Given that group, I understand why we worked out Vince Young when I at first did not see it. This group is really sad. Tyler Thigpen, who is well down any list of QBs, fits right in with this group. We need to find a back-up and I don't see anyone in this group providing a solid choice. We may need to wait until training camp cuts to find someone.

[Cash]

Like a bunch of people here, I'd rather see Dixon brought in for a workout than Young. Young's attitude has been so toxic the last few years, and it doesn't seem to me like he's ready to turn it around yet. I don't think Andy Reid helped matters any by telling Young that he wasn't being brought back because Young is a starting-caliber QB and should be starting somewhere. I also can't believe Young bought that line. That's like breaking up with someone because they're too good in bed.

 

Anyway, Dixon looked fairly decent in the few emergency starts he got for the Steelers a couple years ago, and I like the fact that he's coming from one of the best and most stable organizations/environments. Plus, a move from third string to second is a step up for him, so it's less likely he'd pout as the backup than some of the other candidates. And at 27, Dixon's best football should be ahead of him.

[apuszczalowski]

Like a bunch of people here, I'd rather see Dixon brought in for a workout than Young. Young's attitude has been so toxic the last few years, and it doesn't seem to me like he's ready to turn it around yet. I don't think Andy Reid helped matters any by telling Young that he wasn't being brought back because Young is a starting-caliber QB and should be starting somewhere. I also can't believe Young bought that line. That's like breaking up with someone because they're too good in bed.

 

Anyway, Dixon looked fairly decent in the few emergency starts he got for the Steelers a couple years ago, and I like the fact that he's coming from one of the best and most stable organizations/environments. Plus, a move from third string to second is a step up for him, so it's less likely he'd pout as the backup than some of the other candidates. And at 27, Dixon's best football should be ahead of him.

And maybe the reason why he hasn't been picked up by anyone yet is because he has let teams know he wants a chance to start?

He is 27 and was never given a chance to be a starter in Pittsburgh, going somewhere else with the chance to only be the backup is a lateral move for him. He could always go to Cleveland where he would be the youngster behind their new rookie QB

[Cash]

And maybe the reason why he hasn't been picked up by anyone yet is because he has let teams know he wants a chance to start?

He is 27 and was never given a chance to be a starter in Pittsburgh, going somewhere else with the chance to only be the backup is a lateral move for him. He could always go to Cleveland where he would be the youngster behind their new rookie QB

Certainly his agent may have let teams know that he wants an opportunity to compete for a starting job, but if he can't get that opportunity, being the #2 guy somewhere else is definitely a step up, not a lateral move. As the #2 guy, you're 1 hit away from playing, and if you play well enough, you'll wind up starting one way or another. As the #3 guy, which he's been for most of his career, you're not even really active on game days (until last year, when he was probably outright inactive on most game days), and if the starter goes down, there's a chance the team signs another QB with starting experience who leapfrogs you on the depth chart.

 

There's a reason Drew Stanton got upset and requested a trade after the Jets brought in Tebow. The #2 job is a lot better than the #3 job.

[apuszczalowski]

Certainly his agent may have let teams know that he wants an opportunity to compete for a starting job, but if he can't get that opportunity, being the #2 guy somewhere else is definitely a step up, not a lateral move. As the #2 guy, you're 1 hit away from playing, and if you play well enough, you'll wind up starting one way or another. As the #3 guy, which he's been for most of his career, you're not even really active on game days (until last year, when he was probably outright inactive on most game days), and if the starter goes down, there's a chance the team signs another QB with starting experience who leapfrogs you on the depth chart.

 

There's a reason Drew Stanton got upset and requested a trade after the Jets brought in Tebow. The #2 job is a lot better than the #3 job.

Drew Stanton signed knowing he would be the #2 and then right after they traded for Tebow and bumped him down to the #3. He wa upset because he may have had a chance to be a #2 somewhere else and thats why he came to the Jets.

 

Theres still plenty of offseason left, and Dixon may still sign on as a backup, but if he believes he can be a starter, it will probably be with a team thats still looking for their #1 guy, or an older vet starting and the team will give him a chance to try out for the #1 job in training camp. He is less likely to sign on somewhere where a team has already said they are only looking for a backup QB and that QB will be competing for the backup job only.

[Billsrhody]

Vince Young has the most upside of everyone on that list... unfortunately he has the most downside as well

[Turbosrrgood]

In talking about Vince Young, here's a quote from the News on back-up QBs currently available: "The list of veteran free-agent quarterbacks still on the market is thin. Some of the QBs available beside Young include: ex-Steeler Dennis Dixon, 27; ex-Redskin John Beck, 31; ex-Charger Billy Volek, 36; ex-Ram A.J. Feeley, 35; and ex-Jaguar Luke McCown, 31".

 

Given that group, I understand why we worked out Vince Young when I at first did not see it. This group is really sad. Tyler Thigpen, who is well down any list of QBs, fits right in with this group. We need to find a back-up and I don't see anyone in this group providing a solid choice. We may need to wait until training camp cuts to find someone.

 

I'd take Dixon over Young...You know what you are getting in young, an athletic head case who almost certainly can't handle starting in the NFL . Dixon showed some potential in limited time, obviously he is more of an unknown.

 

Hopefully Corp surprises in training camp, although that's wishful thinking...

 

Personally I have always thought that the NFL "backup" QB is a futile position...For most teams, if your starter goes down you are screwed. What you really want out of a "backup" is a guy that can challenge for the starting job in the future, if your starter craps out or gets old (like Brady, and Rogers did). Of the guy's on that list I'm not sure any fit that role.

 

I'm sure someone will bring up Reich getting the Bills to the SB, among others. Sure, backups will win on occasion, but it's hard enough to win with "starters", most often backups will have no chance to "save a season".

Edited May 3, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[billsfan89]

I actually don't mind Thigpen as our backup. In all honesty your backup isn't suppose to be good, he is suppose to be a guy who can be good enough for a 2-4 game stretch to keep your team afloat. Thigpen is also a guy who had success under Gaily and his system in KC. He is also a guy that won't challenge Fitz for his job at all. Young might seem better on paper but he seems like a bad fit for our locker room.

[RyanC883]

Like a bunch of people here, I'd rather see Dixon brought in for a workout than Young. Young's attitude has been so toxic the last few years, and it doesn't seem to me like he's ready to turn it around yet. I don't think Andy Reid helped matters any by telling Young that he wasn't being brought back because Young is a starting-caliber QB and should be starting somewhere. I also can't believe Young bought that line. That's like breaking up with someone because they're too good in bed.

 

Anyway, Dixon looked fairly decent in the few emergency starts he got for the Steelers a couple years ago, and I like the fact that he's coming from one of the best and most stable organizations/environments. Plus, a move from third string to second is a step up for him, so it's less likely he'd pout as the backup than some of the other candidates. And at 27, Dixon's best football should be ahead of him.

 

I would agree 100%.

 

I'd take Dixon over Young...You know what you are getting in young, an athletic head case who almost certainly can't handle starting in the NFL . Dixon showed some potential in limited time, obviously he is more of an unknown.

 

Hopefully Corp surprises in training camp, although that's wishful thinking...

 

Personally I have always thought that the NFL "backup" QB is a futile position...For most teams, if your starter goes down you are screwed. What you really want out of a "backup" is a guy that can challenge for the starting job in the future, if your starter craps out or gets old (like Brady, and Rogers did). Of the guy's on that list I'm not sure any fit that role.

 

I'm sure someone will bring up Reich getting the Bills to the SB, among others. Sure, backups will win on occasion, but it's hard enough to win with "starters", most often backups will have no chance to "save a season".

 

I believe we lost to a "backup" QB in Super Bowl 25! Backups should be able to step in and take over. The Steelers have 2 good backups. They should not cost you the game and allow you to run your offense at nearly the same pace as before (aka: be good "game managers"). Thigpen would cost us games.

 

There is also the chance that we get Grossman or Colt McCoy or another QB who requests a trade given what happened in the draft. Heck, if I were Cousins I'd already be requesting a trade.

Edited May 3, 2012 by RyanC883

[reddogblitz]

I'm sure someone will bring up Reich getting the Bills to the SB, among others. Sure, backups will win on occasion, but it's hard enough to win with "starters", most often backups will have no chance to "save a season".

The others that come to mind for me are Earl Morrall, Jeff Hostettler, and Kurt Warner.

[ALLEN1QB]

Vince Young has the most upside of everyone on that list... unfortunately he has the most downside as well

 

 

+1

[Dragonborn10]

Vince Young has the most upside of everyone on that list... unfortunately he has the most downside as well

Well said...maybe in this smaller environment where the locker room atmosphere seems to be good he could flourish. Guys like SuperMario and Barnett could be good mentors for him.

[VirginiaMike]

I actually don't mind Thigpen as our backup. In all honesty your backup isn't suppose to be good, he is suppose to be a guy who can be good enough for a 2-4 game stretch to keep your team afloat. Thigpen is also a guy who had success under Gaily and his system in KC. He is also a guy that won't challenge Fitz for his job at all. Young might seem better on paper but he seems like a bad fit for our locker room.

I'm not sure I understand "success under Gailey" comment. If I have the details right, Thigpen was 1-10 as a starter at KC -- does not sound very successful to me.

[Solomon Grundy]

Here we go with the "toxic" in the locker room excuse. T.O. was another problem child according to reports but ended up being a model teammate. VY is a winning QB in the league and it would behoove the Bills not to consider him.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

Like a bunch of people here, I'd rather see Dixon brought in for a workout than Young. Young's attitude has been so toxic the last few years, and it doesn't seem to me like he's ready to turn it around yet. I don't think Andy Reid helped matters any by telling Young that he wasn't being brought back because Young is a starting-caliber QB and should be starting somewhere. I also can't believe Young bought that line. That's like breaking up with someone because they're too good in bed.

 

Anyway, Dixon looked fairly decent in the few emergency starts he got for the Steelers a couple years ago, and I like the fact that he's coming from one of the best and most stable organizations/environments. Plus, a move from third string to second is a step up for him, so it's less likely he'd pout as the backup than some of the other candidates. And at 27, Dixon's best football should be ahead of him.

 

Agree - they should bring Dixon for a look see - he's more coachable than VY; and if VY could benefit from Chan's coaching (if he would listen), then Dixon would most certainly benefit from the experience.

[Cash]

Here we go with the "toxic" in the locker room excuse. T.O. was another problem child according to reports but ended up being a model teammate. VY is a winning QB in the league and it would behoove the Bills not to consider him.

Disagree. I liked the TO move at the time and still in hindsight because

 

1.) T.O. had never been a problem in year 1 with any franchise.

2.) A lot of clowns like Skip Bayless blew T.O.'s look-at-me stuff way out of proportion because they are clowns. I didn't have a problem with TD celebrations then and I don't now.

3.) Even T.O.'s legit attitude problems weren't/aren't *that* bad. They basically stem from over-competitiveness (a good thing in the NFL) and overconfidence (sometimes a good thing in the NFL -- you have to be insanely confident to make it). Usually his sideline tantrums would boil down to T.O. being pissed that the offense stunk, and believing that if he got the ball more, they'd be able to move the ball and score some points. Which was probably true in most cases, but that doesn't mean he handled it well.

4.) On a 1-year deal for an incredibly boring team that stinks, there's no downside to signing T.O. The worst-case scenario is that you continue to stink, but in a less boring fashion, and part ways with him after the year.

 

I don't think the 2012 Bills will stink OR be boring, and Vince Young provides little to no entertainment value. He's had some success in the NFL, but hasn't really gotten better since he was a rookie. That suggests that like T.O., he's very full of himself, but unlike T.O., his self-esteem doesn't correlate with reality.

 

Now, if he "gets it," Vince Young could totally turn his career back around, because he certainly has the physical ability to be a good NFL starter. I doubt he will, but what do I know?

[FreakPop]

Vince Young has the most upside of everyone on that list... unfortunately he has the most downside as well

 

 

I personally don't think VY has any upside left. Not to mention he has burned a lot of NFL bridges already.

 

What you see is what your gonna get, and that isn't good enough for the Bills IMO.

 

Where this team wants to go, it would not be a good idea to bring VY on board.

Edited May 3, 2012 by FreakPop

[Reed83HOF]

Real quick before I read anymore; Hostettler and Reich were backups before FA and don't count - they had no way to leave. Once FA hit both of these players left to start for other teams...

[Captain Hindsight]

I dont understand everyones fascination with Dennis Dixon. He has one career start, One.

[Best Player Available]

I'm not sure I understand "success under Gailey" comment. If I have the details right, Thigpen was 1-10 as a starter at KC -- does not sound very successful to me.

The "success under Gailey" quote is something that is constantly regurgitated because some ESPN bozo said so 2 years ago, right before a commercial break. Thigpens career record of 1-11 as a starter and his pre-season Bills "performances" sure don't bring any support from anyone I'm aware of. Including the Bills. If success is gauged as being still able to walk upright in KC after going 1-10. Then yea he's a superstar.

[benderbender]

I dont understand everyones fascination with Dennis Dixon. He has one career start, One.

Dixon has 3 starts but more INTs than TDs, more fumbles than rush TDs

Edited May 3, 2012 by benderbender

[Reed83HOF]

Dixon has 3 starts but more INTs than TDs, more fumbles than rush TDs

 

And Young has more INTs than TDs...

 

Our best bet is to find an older QB (Delhomme, Brunell, Collins, etc) sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal and let him be the back up. Next year or the year after you draft a first rounder who is the 3rd QB. The following season you shake hands with said backup and the first rounder becomes a second stringer. The following season you shake hands with Fitz and you don't lose a step...

 

Trying to make franchise guy out of a pile crap with an inventive sculptor (coach), might end up with a result that looks a lot like the David sculpture by Michelangelo, but upon closer inspection it is still a piece of ****...

[Captain Hindsight]

Dixon has 3 starts but more INTs than TDs, more fumbles than rush TDs

Mea Culpa

 

But still whats the fascination?

[Dan]

Seems to me, most people are not discussing the most important quality of a back up QB. Its not stats, arm strength, win/loss record, leadership, etc. To be a successfull #2 QB, you need to be a student of the game. You want to have someone that prepares mentally every week to start, knows the playbook inside and out, gets along with all the players, and most importantly knows he's the backup.

 

If you're looking for a back up that's a proven winner, wants one more shot to prove he can be the guy and can lead your team through half the season or more, then you're looking for a starter, IMO.

 

Regarding VY, who really thinks he would ever put in the time to study and learn the offense if he knew he wasn't going to start. Shades of Billy Joe come to my mind.

[uncle flap]

Mea Culpa

 

But still whats the fascination?

 

 

He was a pretty exciting player in college http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVaBNvp1Qd0

Edited May 3, 2012 by uncle flap

[Reed83HOF]

Seems to me, most people are not discussing the most important quality of a back up QB. Its not stats, arm strength, win/loss record, leadership, etc. To be a successfull #2 QB, you need to be a student of the game. You want to have someone that prepares mentally every week to start, knows the playbook inside and out, gets along with all the players, and most importantly knows he's the backup.

 

If you're looking for a back up that's a proven winner, wants one more shot to prove he can be the guy and can lead your team through half the season or more, then you're looking for a starter, IMO.

 

Regarding VY, who really thinks he would ever put in the time to study and learn the offense if he knew he wasn't going to start. Shades of Billy Joe come to my mind.

 

Nice post Dan

[Captain Hindsight]

He was a pretty exciting player in college youtube.com/watch?v=yVaBNvp1Qd0

So were lots of guys. and that was years ago. What about him in the NFL is so great?

[uncle flap]

So were lots of guys. and that was years ago. What about him in the NFL is so great?

 

I won't try to sell you on Dixon, and though I'm a fan, I'd be hard pressed to explain what's so great about him. To take a second stab at your original question: Fans are interested because he's available, he's young, and doesn't have any baggage.

 

His skill level and potential are debatable. He hasn't really had a shot in Pittsburgh as the third string QB. Yeah, he had some starts, but you have to imagine his development was somewhat stunted by taking reps as the third string QB for most of his career.

 

I know the standard response would be, "Well, if he's so good, how come he didn't beat out Leftwich or Charlie Batch?" Well, I don't know. Maybe he truly isn't that good. But I know I liked him as a Duck, and it doesn't hurt the Bills to bring him in and kick the tires.

Edited May 3, 2012 by uncle flap

[BRAWNDO]

A.J. Feeley, he has a WAG in Heather Mitts

 

 

My link

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Here we go with the "toxic" in the locker room excuse. T.O. was another problem child according to reports but ended up being a model teammate. VY is a winning QB in the league and it would behoove the Bills not to consider him.

 

So you're saying he's not toxic, but the Bills shouldn't consider him. O.K.

 

Seems to me, most people are not discussing the most important quality of a back up QB. Its not stats, arm strength, win/loss record, leadership, etc. To be a successfull #2 QB, you need to be a student of the game. You want to have someone that prepares mentally every week to start, knows the playbook inside and out, gets along with all the players, and most importantly knows he's the backup.

 

If you're looking for a back up that's a proven winner, wants one more shot to prove he can be the guy and can lead your team through half the season or more, then you're looking for a starter, IMO.

 

Regarding VY, who really thinks he would ever put in the time to study and learn the offense if he knew he wasn't going to start. Shades of Billy Joe come to my mind.

 

This.

 

I think the results in Philly showed what he'd do as the backup

[#34fan]

In talking about Vince Young, here's a quote from the News on back-up QBs currently available: "The list of veteran free-agent quarterbacks still on the market is thin. Some of the QBs available beside Young include: ex-Steeler Dennis Dixon, 27; ex-Redskin John Beck, 31; ex-Charger Billy Volek, 36; ex-Ram A.J. Feeley, 35; and ex-Jaguar Luke McCown, 31".

Given that group, I understand why we worked out Vince Young when I at first did not see it. This group is really sad. Tyler Thigpen, who is well down any list of QBs, fits right in with this group. We need to find a back-up and I don't see anyone in this group providing a solid choice. We may need to wait until training camp cuts to find someone.

 

Volek mak be the oldest, but IMO he represents the best out of this bunch. Smart, experienced, well-traveled, and very reliable. If he were five or six years younger, there's no question who I would want.

 

That said, there's no way Billy Volek is leaving his home in SoCal for balmy WNY. -Not at this stage in his career.

Edited May 4, 2012 by #34fan

[snamsnoops]

VY is a winning QB in the league and it would behoove the Bills not to consider him.

 

They did consider him thats why he was in town for a try out!

[Rockinon]

Thigpen came to this team when we had that whole NFL and player negotiation stuff going on. He didn't have a bunch of Bills WRs coming to his house in the off season like Fitz. I'll give him a chance to build better chemistry with them. Honestly, a full off season to work with the QB coach and Chan will help him too. He looked pretty lost last year but I think he'll come around.

 

As for third string, the Bills are doing the right thing and looking for a young guy they could possibly develop.

 

Really, I think people here are bit too quick to toss stuff on the trash heap. Kind of understandable....we haven't had a decent QB for so long that we tend to be overly critical of our QB's every move. Having guys like Rob Johnson, Drew Bledsoe and Trent Edwards around has kind of warped our perception of things. I also think that all of those guys had one thing in common....they all lead the league in sacks. All were pocket passers who could have done OK with plenty of time to throw. None would get rid of the ball like Fitzy. I don't know if that can be attributed to better coaching or if Fitz is the first to realize the importance of getting the ball out quick. Whatever the reason, we are sitting in a very good spot right now. No one outside of Buffalo knows what we know and no one is expecting the Bills to lead our division in wins. I am looking forward to watching some very surprised looks on people's faces this year.

 

Personally, I think all of the QBs who end up on the final roster will look decent this year with all of the added depth we have on our offensive line. We all ready know our RBs can take some pressure off the QB too. It's an interesting year. This is the first time in years that I feel confident about our teams trench guys. The big men up front are going to make our whole team look better and not just on offense either. Some of us need to step back a little and look at the big picture.

 

Enjoy it guys. Things are looking up.

[RyanC883]

So were lots of guys. and that was years ago. What about him in the NFL is so great?

 

He never got a chance in the NFL. So you have a guy with a ton of potential (Dixon) and a veteran (Thigpen) as backups. Dixon will get his chance here to be a backup. It's like a ball player who doesn't get enough at bats. As far as I'm concerned, Dixon's NFL stats mean nothing considering he was the 4TH string QB in PIT behind Leftwich, Batch and Ben. Not much practice time, little game time. And he looked decent in the games considering all of that.

 

I won't try to sell you on Dixon, and though I'm a fan, I'd be hard pressed to explain what's so great about him. To take a second stab at your original question: Fans are interested because he's available, he's young, and doesn't have any baggage.

 

His skill level and potential are debatable. He hasn't really had a shot in Pittsburgh as the third string QB. Yeah, he had some starts, but you have to imagine his development was somewhat stunted by taking reps as the third string QB for most of his career.

 

I know the standard response would be, "Well, if he's so good, how come he didn't beat out Leftwich or Charlie Batch?" Well, I don't know. Maybe he truly isn't that good. But I know I liked him as a Duck, and it doesn't hurt the Bills to bring him in and kick the tires.

 

Was 4th string in QB. And I agree with you that getting so few reps in practice stunted his development. A good guy to come in and challenge Thigpen, who himself was somewhat hurt by the lockout.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He never got a chance in the NFL. So you have a guy with a ton of potential (Dixon) and a veteran (Thigpen) as backups. Dixon will get his chance here to be a backup. It's like a ball player who doesn't get enough at bats.

 

Wait, what did I miss? I thought we were trying out Vince Young...when did Dixon come to town and receive an offer? And what about the rookie UDFA we just signed?

Edited May 5, 2012 by Hopeful