HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well there in lies the problem. The inconsisstency of when and where they are called. That's an issue for the league, not for Chan. Because SJ had already received one penalty this year (Jets) and there were tweets before the game indicating he knew he might be fined, one has to conclude he knew he was walking the line. Whereas, Clay Matthews having done the same celebration multiple times can be pretty sure he is in the clear. If you are arguing that the league should lighten up on celebrations with a prop, I have mixed feelings. A Happy New Year T-Shirt is not a big deal to me. Neither is Why So Serious for that matter, nor do I think that (for example) someone making a camera motion with the ball is a big deal, nor for that matter signing it with a Sharpie. Pulling out a cell phone and making a call before reaching the sidelines seems like a bit much. On the other hand, the examples of running to the middle of the field and freaking out seem over the top. The main problem is, drawing a line is not that easy. For now, there is a line drawn: No celebrations where you fall down in the end zone and no celebrations using a prop until you get back to the sideline (apparently). Not my favorite rule but it is a rule. Any reason SJ could not have run over to the Bills' sideline, then pulled up his shirt??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The biggest problem with his antics is it disracts everyone from the real problem on this team... a defense that gave up 40points to a divisional opponent. Stevie was stupid to do it. Chan made a point, in a meaningless game, that his behavior wouldn't be allowed. But the real problem is... we finished another pathetic season with another pathetic team-wide effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The League told players that flashing scrawling on their T-shirts was not going to be tolerated. That didn't seem to be received by how many players exactly? Exactly. How many other players have flashed t-shirt messages this year? Arguing over what is worse is pointless. The point is what is legal. Stevie doesn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Except they DID change the rule, and it seems that the ONLY player in the league to not get the memo was SJ. I dont blame you as I dont think you are CC'ed on NFL memos. He either purposely didnt care, or didnt care enough to learn the rules. Either way, its on SJ. Well then I blame SJ and myself for not getting that memo. But honestly what consituits a prop. Why isn't a football considered one, when they dunk on the goal post. That's an issue for the league, not for Chan. Because SJ had already received one penalty this year (Jets) and there were tweets before the game indicating he knew he might be fined, one has to conclude he knew he was walking the line. Whereas, Clay Matthews having done the same celebration multiple times can be pretty sure he is in the clear. If you are arguing that the league should lighten up on celebrations with a prop, I have mixed feelings. A Happy New Year T-Shirt is not a big deal to me. Neither is Why So Serious for that matter, nor do I think that (for example) someone making a camera motion with the ball is a big deal, nor for that matter signing it with a Sharpie. Pulling out a cell phone and making a call before reaching the sidelines seems like a bit much. On the other hand, the examples of running to the middle of the field and freaking out seem over the top. The main problem is, drawing a line is not that easy. For now, there is a line drawn: No celebrations where you fall down in the end zone and no celebrations using a prop until you get back to the sideline (apparently). Not my favorite rule but it is a rule. Any reason SJ could not have run over to the Bills' sideline, then pulled up his shirt??? I didn't start the argument about the celebration, it was about the "me-first" attitude that one poster said doesn't happen on other teams. Which IMO unless the team is doing a line dance together, every celebration is a me-first one. Edited January 1, 2012 by Wayne333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well then I blame SJ and myself for not getting that memo. But honestly what consituits a prop. Why isn't a football considered one, when they dunk on the goal post. Mike Pereira already tweeted today that the goalpost dunk and Lambeau Leap are "grandfathered." Which is completely stupid, of course, but is also the rule. As players, theirs is not to reason why. Theirs is to follow the GD rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 But he wasn't penalized last year. And what exactly is a prop. A football. A goalpost. Jumping into fans. Sometimes, players are not penalized for holding either. That does not mean it should never be called. Also, wasn't he fined (not penalized), where a fine usually indicates the league thought it should have been a penalty? Sometimes, players are penalized for "driving" Tom Brady into the ground when all they did is shove him. That is a bad call, but does not mean actually driving a quarterback into the ground is OK. The rules actually explicitly allow certain celebrations including jumping into fans (which I think is fine). Apparently, dunking the ball is allowed as well (I think it should not be). If you use a goalpost and ball to simulate filming the Pats, that can be fined. Even though it is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 And I'm missing something. Did Stevie actually tweet pregame that he might be fined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Mike Pereira already tweeted today that the goalpost dunk and Lambeau Leap are "grandfathered." Which is completely stupid, of course, but is also the rule. As players, theirs is not to reason why. Theirs is to follow the GD rules. They should probably change the rule on dunking, but for now it is allowed. The leap however cannot be considered a prop, in my opinion, and is really not just a Green Bay tradition. It should remain allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 They should probably change the rule on dunking, but for now it is allowed. The leap however cannot be considered a prop, in my opinion, and is really not just a Green Bay tradition. It should remain allowed. When a little kid gets hurt because 250 pounds of player and pads landed on him, you'll see the Leap go to the ash heap pretty damn quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Well then I blame SJ and myself for not getting that memo. But honestly what consituits a prop. Why isn't a football considered one, when they dunk on the goal post. I didn't start the argument about the celebration, it was about the "me-first" attitude that one poster said doesn't happen on other teams. Which IMO unless the team is doing a line dance together, every celebration is a me-first one. The dunk, spikes, and the leap are specifically written in as acceptable. Just because you don't know the rule 100% doesn't mean it's not well defined. Instead of arguing here, I encourage you to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Any celebration that by definition merits a penalty is a me-first celebration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsinfla Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 He's an embarrassment to the Bills organization and an insult to his teammates. This thread is about Stevie, not Chan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The dunk, spikes, and the leap are specifically written in as acceptable. Just because you don't know the rule 100% doesn't mean it's not well defined. Instead of arguing here, I encourage you to look it up. Thanks, I understand that they are grandfathered in. My point is they are, in essence, props for props sake, are they not. Writing "happy new years" on a shirt does no harm to anyone... yet jumping on some fans very well could. What happens when one fan takes it to far when a player jumps in the stands. The problem is inconsistency IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Stevie is back in Buffalo next season. The explicit disregard for a coach's directive was an "I'm out of here" move if ever there was one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Thanks, I understand that they are grandfathered in. My point is they are, in essence, props for props sake, are they not. Writing "happy new years" on a shirt does no harm to anyone... yet jumping on some fans very well could. What happens when one fan takes it to far when a player jumps in the stands. The problem is inconsistency IMO. It's not a good rule. What would be a better rule? Do we want referees to have to judge the content of T-shirts. Happy New Year is OK. "F You Rex Ryan" is not. "Why So Serious?" is. "I like feet, too" is not. Where do you draw the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRM33064 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The explicit disregard for a coach's directive was an "I'm out of here" move if ever there was one... Either that, or he's got the intellectual muscle of a jelly doughnut. Either is equally plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 There is no need to let talent walk. Yeah, that whole "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" thing is important to remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Bring your ranting and raving here folks! And just so y'all know, I am completely done with all the flaming and name-calling I've been dealing with today. I'm currently passing out vacations like Halloween candy so if yo can't keep it civil, find another board. Wow ! This thread brought on responses fast. So without reading all of them, here is my $0.025 (because I am half a cent smarter than everyone else) - Stevie can get open against some of the best CBs in the league - His occasional childish behavior can be corrected. Those who disagree have never raised teens. He does not get into trouble with the law, a much more serious situation IMHO (ref: Lynch, Marshawn) - The only flaw I see in SJ is his dropsies but they seem to be few and far in-between. Granted they probably cost us two games but the solution may be to get another WR (who we need in the worst way, anyway) and target that WR or Nelson during clutch moments My opinion is that he is like a petulant child who can be disciplined into not causing stupid penalties. He seems dedicated to the sport and hence I am confident he can mend his ways. Re-sign him for a $6-$8 M/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The explicit disregard for a coach's directive was an "I'm out of here" move if ever there was one... Would like to know what words were exchanged on the sideline. Those could be key too his benching, and future here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Would like to know what words were exchanged on the sideline. Those could be key too his benching, and future here. Shortly after what must have been his benching discussion, they showed George Wilson talking to Stevie. George looked pretty POed, but it's tough to tell if it was at Stevie (hopefully) or the coaches (George is the team's player rep after all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Gailey probably lost more respect from the players in the locker room for the benching. Players want to win, and you don't earn respect from vets and rooks for benching one of your better players for a relatively innocuous play. Gailey showed that his ego/pride is more important than winning, and that sentiment will definitely resonate with the players. And what do players make of a guy who thinks the rules don't apply to him? If Chan say's "hurt the team and your benched" and SJ goes out and pulls his stunt anyway, what does that say to the team? I can't think of a successful HC that's allowed a player to put themselves ahead the team on more than one occassion. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Any celebration that by definition merits a penalty is a me-first celebration. Oh good lord. "Me First" comes from the fact that Johnson pre-planned this childish stunt (again) knowing full well it would cost his team 15 yards and give the pats good field position and he simply didn't give a !@#$. He cared only about himself by his "look at me" bull ****, not his team. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Would like to know what words were exchanged on the sideline. Those could be key too his benching, and future here. I didnt see it yet but apparently Gailey had a simple rule. Any player that costs the team a penalty for excessive celebration gets benched. He had to go through with it. Stevie said after the game he understood it and took responsibility for it. To me, because of exactly what he did, Gailey should have benched him only for a half. If he did something excessive, flaunting the rule, that would have been totally different. He clearly thought it would be ok, doing it last year and not getting any penalty. He knew he would get a fine by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The Bengals seemed to do OK when they didn't bother bringing back their pair of diva queens... speaking of which I didn't see much Ocho Stinko today. Ocho and TO were both well into their 30s, not 25 and just entering their prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 My guess is that most of the players are aligned behind Stevie than behind Chan. Sure he's an immature imbecile, but he delivers on the field and that's what players care about. Wins & losses. Thanks Chan for reinforcing your reputation. Actually your wrong winning is down the list a ways. They care about their payday first, their image second, their parent(s) wives, girlfriends, cars, homes, vacations, clothes. Their friends, team and fans are somewhere on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Oh good lord. "Me First" comes from the fact that Johnson pre-planned this childish stunt (again) knowing full well it would cost his team 15 yards and give the pats good field position and he simply didn't give a !@#$. He cared only about himself by his "look at me" bull ****, not his team. Get it? How did he "know full well" when he didn't receive a penalty last time he wrote on his undershirt? Both he and Chan acknowledged as much after the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 As another thought, if Stevie tweeted that he might get fined, he probably thought he'd just get fined for the shirt and NOT get a penalty. Lots of things in the NFL aren't called for any type of penalty but result in mid-week fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ocho and TO were both well into their 30s, not 25 and just entering their prime. My point was that it is hardly "impossible" to replace a WR. Divas are dumped league wide all the time. AJ Green has more than capably filled the hole. There are plenty of WRs in NCAA that can play -- some that I think have much better ball skills than Stevie Johnson, quite frankly. Now, I'm not saying that all things being equal, the Bills should be creating yet another hole, but Johnson has shown he's an idiot and doesn't understand how to follow directions. When trying to turn around the worst franchise in the NFL, one can't rely on the unreliable to lead the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 My point was that it is hardly "impossible" to replace a WR. Divas are dumped league wide all the time. AJ Green has more than capably filled the hole. There are at plenty of WRs in NCAA that can play. Now, I'm not saying that all things being equal, the Bills should be creating yet another hole, but Johnson has shown he's an idiot and doesn't understand how to follow directions. When trying to turn around the worst franchise in the NFL, one can't rely on the unreliable to lead the way. Sweet. Lets burn the #9 pick on a WR! Its not like we have more pressing needs. Who needs linemen or defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson's Ears Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Gailey probably lost more respect from the players in the locker room for the benching. Players want to win, and you don't earn respect from vets and rooks for benching one of your better players for a relatively innocuous play. Gailey showed that his ego/pride is more important than winning, and that sentiment will definitely resonate with the players. uh, actually just the opposite. gailey told his players that any further actions like this would result in disciplinary action. if he doesn't follow through, he loses his players. he just did what he said he was gonna do. doesn't matter how silly everyone thinks it is. a team rule is a team rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) In regards to Johnson there was reference in the twitter world about celebrations and potential fines before the game. When does normal behavour AKA playing within the rules is under the presumption of getting fined? This falls all on Johnson. There should be no blame to Gailey. Remember when the Hoody benched Welker for a a few series in a playoff game last year for making references to Rex Ryan's foot fetish in the presser. He punished a lot less serious infraction with a player that had no history of problems, but it was a rule the Hoody has. You don't motivate teams with bullitin board material. Gailey has rules and Stevie crossed them. Any head coach would do what he did with the rules they set for their players. Edited January 2, 2012 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Sweet. Lets burn the #9 pick on a WR! Its not like we have more pressing needs. Who needs linemen or defense? Not to mention what WR is worthy of the #9 selection?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 How did he "know full well" when he didn't receive a penalty last time he wrote on his undershirt? Both he and Chan acknowledged as much after the game. Please. Because a cop lets you off for speeding one time do you think you won't get a ticket for it the next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Sweet. Lets burn the #9 pick on a WR! Its not like we have more pressing needs. Who needs linemen or defense? WR is as big of a need with or without Stevie. I agree we should not create another hole, but even if he is re-signed, we have good reason to take a WR at #9. WR is definitely a bigger need than OL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ocho and TO were both well into their 30s, not 25 and just entering their prime. TO started WAY before his 30's. Ask the 49ers why they got rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Sweet. Lets burn the #9 pick on a WR! Its not like we have more pressing needs. Who needs linemen or defense? Or a QB above the Tarvaris Jackson rung of the ladder for that matter. I wish Stevie would "grow up" too. So far, there is little to indicate he is capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Please. Because a cop lets you off for speeding one time do you think you won't get a ticket for it the next time? Make assumptions much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 WR is as big of a need with or without Stevie. I agree we should not create another hole, but even if he is re-signed, we have good reason to take a WR at #9. WR is definitely a bigger need than OL right now. Yeah, our WRs gave up 49 points today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Make assumptions much? Wear blinders much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Wear blinders much? No, but I do take a coach's opinion and NFL players opinion over some monkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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