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Kevin

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I didn't realize it was this bad. AGAIN!

 

"You'd be hard-pressed to find a team with its best three players on injured reserve like the Bills, and it's no coincidence their losing streak began when they lost Williams, then Wood and then Jackson. In addition to Parrish, Jones and Easley being on I.R., WRs Stevie Johnson and David Nelson have been banged up at times. OLT Demetrius Bell was very impressive early on before suffering an injury that has taken longer than expected to heal. CB Aaron Williams has suffered two injuries, curbing a promising rookie campaign. The loss of SS George Wilson in recent weeks also has hurt the secondary. He was playing at a Pro Bowl level."

Edited by Kevin
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This is what I keep coming back to, as well. It's the only explanation that makes sense to me. We have a team with starters who play well as a team, and in some cases overachieve. When said starters fall due to injury, our lack of depth is severely exposed and our team chemistry/confidence suffers. That's the story of the 2011 in my mind, and I'm sticking to it.

 

When we get healthy again and add depth, along with one or two more legit, play making starters, that's when we get to the play in January.

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I believe it's the injuries too. They have to develop depth. People point to other teams that have lost players but still win, but that just seems to underscore that the problem is depth. They have some serious holes too, but a top-shelf outside linebacker would make a big difference. I hope an elite OLB falls to them in the 1st, and then it's all best player available.

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I believe it's the injuries too. They have to develop depth. People point to other teams that have lost players but still win, but that just seems to underscore that the problem is depth. They have some serious holes too, but a top-shelf outside linebacker would make a big difference. I hope an elite OLB falls to them in the 1st, and then it's all best player available.

 

yep, I actually like our Dline, and I like the potential of the secondary. We need a stud OLB who can open up the pass rush and do what Merriman was supposed to do. If we find that guy, and then stay healthy, we're an above average team contending for the division. The secondary will look much improved when we can put the QB on his back consistently.

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Note: Not a single linebacker is injured (except Merriman, who has been injured every day for 3 years).

 

And yet, the defense continues to suck.

 

Please, lets fix the linebackers. And draft enough of them to have depth, in case 1 or 2 goes down. A 3-4 defense needs maybe 7-8 linebackers. We currently have about 2.

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Note: Not a single linebacker is injured (except Merriman, who has been injured every day for 3 years).

 

And yet, the defense continues to suck.

 

Please, lets fix the linebackers. And draft enough of them to have depth, in case 1 or 2 goes down. A 3-4 defense needs maybe 7-8 linebackers. We currently have about 2.

 

yep, the LB corp has been a huge disappointment this season. We fix that group, and get a legit D coordinator in here, we'll be solid.

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I didn't realize it was this bad. AGAIN!

 

 

Really? Haven't been reading the casualty reports on a regular basis? The first string is decent to very good. The backups in most positions are weak. Good thing Fitz hasn't gone down, because we wouldn't score at all from that point onward.

 

I agree completely with the other posters that OLB is our worst single position and the LB corps needs a vast improvement. Barnett is solid. Most of what are playing around him are marshmallows.

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When we get healthy again and add depth, along with one or two more legit, play making starters, that's when we get to the play in January.

 

And it's worth noting, the Ravens press, for example - has been pointing directly to their lack of injuiries this year as the main reason they think they have a real shot at the Super Bowl.

 

Fitz still needs to play more consistently (which may or may not ever happen), and we could sure use a faster starting WR, AND 1 or 2 actual OLB's are a necessity - but it isn't much more than that and health keeping the Bills out of a real playoff run.

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I didn't realize it was this bad. AGAIN!

 

"You'd be hard-pressed to find a team with its best three players on injured reserve like the Bills, and it's no coincidence their losing streak began when they lost Williams, then Wood and then Jackson. In addition to Parrish, Jones and Easley being on I.R., WRs Stevie Johnson and David Nelson have been banged up at times. OLT Demetrius Bell was very impressive early on before suffering an injury that has taken longer than expected to heal. CB Aaron Williams has suffered two injuries, curbing a promising rookie campaign. The loss of SS George Wilson in recent weeks also has hurt the secondary. He was playing at a Pro Bowl level."

 

Injuries are what lose a season and turnovers are what lose you individual games. Minimize both turnovers and injuries and you will be competitive all year, don't care what team you are. The Bills are always injured. Not sure why.

 

I believe it's the injuries too. They have to develop depth. People point to other teams that have lost players but still win, but that just seems to underscore that the problem is depth. They have some serious holes too, but a top-shelf outside linebacker would make a big difference. I hope an elite OLB falls to them in the 1st, and then it's all best player available.

Merriman, if healthy , is that guy. He was a force on half a leg this year.

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This is what I keep coming back to, as well. It's the only explanation that makes sense to me. We have a team with starters who play well as a team, and in some cases overachieve. When said starters fall due to injury, our lack of depth is severely exposed and our team chemistry/confidence suffers. That's the story of the 2011 in my mind, and I'm sticking to it.

 

When we get healthy again and add depth, along with one or two more legit, play making starters, that's when we get to the play in January.

 

CONGRATULATIONS!!! A INTELLIGENT thought on TBD!!!

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Anyone that says the Bills run defense has not improved has to take a better look.

 

2011

130.7 rushing yards per game - ranked 25

 

And in this seasons unusual air attack the Bills have 233 passing yards per game - ranked 15

 

Green Bay is ranked 31 with 289 and NE is 32 with 309 against the pass.

 

 

2010

169.6 rushing yards per game ranked 32

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It comes down to the following, and injuries expose all of the below:

 

1. Rebuilding. Yep, we're in year 2 of rebuilding. As much as people don't want to admit it, this is true. When you are rebuilding, you lack depth because you are basically starting from near zero. The Bills had precious little to build on, and when those building blocks went down, we got screwed. Drafting Spiller at what was a position of strength didn't help much, but I think Nix realizes his mistake.

 

2. Bad drafts for 10 years. Also contributes to #1, but there's no way Buffalo can recover quickly from years of poor drafting. You can't trade away #1 picks (for bledsoe) and whiff on multiple #1 picks (Williams, McCargo, Losman, etc.) and recover in two years. It doesn't happen. Sorry to break it to everyone, but it doesn't happen.

 

3. Getting rid of good players. This is partially due to the revolving door at Head Coach, but look at the good players that the Bills get rid of or lose because they are constantly starting at year 1 of rebuilding. Greer, Fletcher, Schoebel, Leonhard, Trent Edwards (just kidding!), etc. A lack of consistency in the FO and at HC leads to this issue. And now people want to get rid of gailey and nix before the fruit is even ripe. Idiots don't realize that inconsistency is part of the problem.

 

So when we have so few good players, and they all get injured, you see an absolute joke on the field. No coach can deal with that, although I think Edwards could do better and he needs to GTFO.

 

 

I didn't realize it was this bad. AGAIN!

 

"You'd be hard-pressed to find a team with its best three players on injured reserve like the Bills, and it's no coincidence their losing streak began when they lost Williams, then Wood and then Jackson. In addition to Parrish, Jones and Easley being on I.R., WRs Stevie Johnson and David Nelson have been banged up at times. OLT Demetrius Bell was very impressive early on before suffering an injury that has taken longer than expected to heal. CB Aaron Williams has suffered two injuries, curbing a promising rookie campaign. The loss of SS George Wilson in recent weeks also has hurt the secondary. He was playing at a Pro Bowl level."

 

So going from 32 to 25 is a substantial improvement.

 

Quiz: what does new england and GB have that most teams in the NFL don't? A HOF QB, silly, and consistency in the FO.

 

Anyone that says the Bills run defense has not improved has to take a better look.

 

2011

130.7 rushing yards per game - ranked 25

 

And in this seasons unusual air attack the Bills have 233 passing yards per game - ranked 15

 

Green Bay is ranked 31 with 289 and NE is 32 with 309 against the pass.

 

 

2010

169.6 rushing yards per game ranked 32

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Note: Not a single linebacker is injured (except Merriman, who has been injured every day for 3 years).

 

And yet, the defense continues to suck.

 

Please, lets fix the linebackers. And draft enough of them to have depth, in case 1 or 2 goes down. A 3-4 defense needs maybe 7-8 linebackers. We currently have about 2.

Kelsay's missed 5 games due to injury. I know some comment about how bad he is is coming, but he was sorely missed in those games as there was a large dropoff between him and the Batten/Moats who replaced him.

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Note: Not a single linebacker is injured (except Merriman, who has been injured every day for 3 years).

 

And yet, the defense continues to suck.

 

Please, lets fix the linebackers. And draft enough of them to have depth, in case 1 or 2 goes down. A 3-4 defense needs maybe 7-8 linebackers. We currently have about 2.

 

So, not a single LB is out except 25% of them and you failed to mention that another 25% of them (Kelsey) has missed significant playing time as well. Pre-injury Kelsey was actually playing pretty well. Add to it our Pro Bowl DT and pretty much the entire secondary. The D wasn't good WITH all the starters but it's no wonder they're one of the worst units in the league considering all the injuries.

 

People don't want to hear it because they consider it as excuse but to expect a team that drafted 3rd overall last year to have the depth at so many positions to continue to compete for a playoff spot is expecting the near impossible. I get as agitated as anybody watching this mess unfold game after game and season after season but I also realize that this year there have been a plethora of injuries which derailed this team.

 

All that being said I agree with your statement that the LBs need fixing - they do.

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I buy the injury excuse for offense somewhat, although I think that lack of confidence and regression by the QB are also major factors. The defense was bad before the injuries however. Forget about statistics. Anyone who watches the games can see that they stink.

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Que someone to say that the PAckers won the Super Bowl with all their injuries. We aren't as good as the Super Bowl Champs I guess. :ph34r: However what people forget is the Packers had to win their last 2 games to finish 10-6 and sneak in the playoffs in the first place. We hate the excuses but there's very little doubt that they killed the Bills season. We just aren't deep enough to substain after those injuries.

 

I buy the injury excuse for offense somewhat, although I think that lack of confidence and regression by the QB are also major factors. The defense was bad before the injuries however. Forget about statistics. Anyone who watches the games can see that they stink.

 

Having a pro bowl DT and probably your best pass rusher would have helped the defense alot too. Williams wasn't healthy all year. With Darues looking dominant at times, it jsut makes you wonder how the defense would have looked with them both 100%.

 

some new defensive coordinator is going to inherit a pretty decent situation IMO.

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Good (deep) teams overcome injuries. Run of the mill teams do not.

 

This team needs to:

Develop a pass rush w/out blitzing. Last year Capers blitzed about 35% of the time, this year he's gone to 50% because his front can't generate a pass rush. The Packers' defense this year is not as good as it was last year. People keep talking about the need for a blitzing LB, but the front needs to generate their own sacks. The Bills are typically in a 4 man front, I believe, on passing downs. I don't care whether you call the 4th guy a LB or DE, they must get to the QB without having to rush more than 4.

 

Beyond that (LB/D-line)...we need help at CB, WR & O-line. Put them in whatever order is to your liking.

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I was wondering how we ranked. It makes sense. At the start of the season, we had average individuals, with a few exceptional ones like Wood, Jackson, Merriman and Williams, playing exceptionally well as a unit.

 

When your best players, and several average ones, are put on IR, you're left with backups to...no-names.

 

Our D was getting it done before the injuries but we were clearly not dominating. Losing Williams and Merriman was huge.

 

Our O was clicking despite lack of a deep threat and pass protection. Losing Wood and Jackson killed us here.

 

It's logical to think we can recreate similar success with the same healthy guys back. It's also clear this offseason needs to be balanced, with our first priority at OLB.

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Injuries hurt, sure. But a good team would have solid depth and coaching to make up for them (see Packers last year). The excuses need to stop.

 

I think that's the point though. I think this team IS good if they can gain some depth and perhaps a DC. I think that's a lot better off than just being a bad team even when healthy.

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No team in the NFL has the depth to overcome losing their three best players, and half their receiving core.

 

If the Packers lost their three best players for the season, they'd be 5-8 too.

Houston has lost their QB, their back-up QB & their best defensive player for the season and their best WR missed 6 or so games. I'm sure they have had other significant losses but I don't know their roster well enough to comment on them.

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Houston has lost their QB, their back-up QB & their best defensive player for the season and their best WR missed 6 or so games. I'm sure they have had other significant losses but I don't know their roster well enough to comment on them.

They also play in the AFC South and have a killer DC. Not an excuse, just context. We clearly have zero depth and are lacking elite talent, but we would be much better had we not lost our only elite players.

 

Besides, it's hard to win in the NFL, man.

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Injuries hurt, sure. But a good team would have solid depth and coaching to make up for them (see Packers last year). The excuses need to stop.

 

I guess I agree, however look at the Packers. They have incredible stability in the front office and at coaching. All the good teams do. Teams that constantly need to fire people don't do well, no matter what.

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I've made this point before, but it bears repeating:

 

Our team relies too much on younger guys whose bodies haven't fully developed.

 

And when you think of the timing of this current regime overhaul and factor in the fitness time lost to the lockout, and we have a ton of underdeveloped guys on our roster, who are expected to contribute, but haven't even been through a full NFL offseason training program yet.

 

They're simply ill-equipped for the rigors of an NFL schedule.

Edited by The Big Cat
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No team in the NFL has the depth to overcome losing their three best players, and half their receiving core.

 

If the Packers lost their three best players for the season, they'd be 5-8 too.

 

The Patriots lost their best player in 2008 and still managed to go 11-5. His replacement has not fared well in KC and may be done as a starter.

 

Let's look closely at the injuries that have hurt Buffalo most: Jackson, Wood, and Kyle Williams. The Bills had a 1st round pick to back up Fred who has underwhelmed. Shouldn't the expectation be that he adequately fill in for Jackson given the hype and praise he received from the staff on draft day 2010? Meanwhile, they had no backup OC on the roster, so of course Wood's injury hurt significantly when they were forced to shuffle the left side of the OL. As for Williams, he was mostly their 1 gap 34 NT, where Dareus is playing, thus forcing Carrington to be LDE. And, they placed immense faith in Merriman not only producing, but remaining healthy at ROLB. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills are like an individual who lives in hurricane country and refuses to purchase homeowners insurance because it costs too much. When the home is damanged in a storm, he complains that he can't fix it now for lack of funds despite making 7 figures.

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The defense was bad before the injuries however. Forget about statistics. Anyone who watches the games can see that they stink.

 

Anyone who watched the early season games could see Merriman was creating pressure even w/o the sacks.

 

Now we don't even get pressure.

 

No, they weren't a good defense before - but losing Williams, Merriman, Wilson dropped them from poor to awful. It mattered.

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So the real key then is to retain all of our worth while players this year. If we can draft 4 starting-solid depth players then we should be better prepared for injuries right?

 

The Patriots lost their best player in 2008 and still managed to go 11-5. His replacement has not fared well in KC and may be done as a starter.

 

Let's look closely at the injuries that have hurt Buffalo most: Jackson, Wood, and Kyle Williams. The Bills had a 1st round pick to back up Fred who has underwhelmed. Shouldn't the expectation be that he adequately fill in for Jackson given the hype and praise he received from the staff on draft day 2010? Meanwhile, they had no backup OC on the roster, so of course Wood's injury hurt significantly when they were forced to shuffle the left side of the OL. As for Williams, he was mostly their 1 gap 34 NT, where Dareus is playing, thus forcing Carrington to be LDE. And, they placed immense faith in Merriman not only producing, but remaining healthy at ROLB. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills are like an individual who lives in hurricane country and refuses to purchase homeowners insurance because it costs too much. When the home is damanged in a storm, he complains that he can't fix it now for lack of funds despite making 7 figures.

 

To add a little context, I think the patriots went 10-6 which means they still played quite well, however they did miss the playoffs. I think that was the only year in the last decade or something that the Pats didn't make it to the post season.

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No team in the NFL has the depth to overcome losing their three best players, and half their receiving core.

 

If the Packers lost their three best players for the season, they'd be 5-8 too.

 

I would say three of their best players. If your center is one of your 3 best players, your team is awful.

 

 

Williams was probably one of their three best players last year. Freddy is obviously the MVP of the team but the team was already into its nose dive when he went down.

 

I'm still gonna put Fitz and Stevie as 2 of the 5 best players on the team. Barnett was more valuable all season than either Wood or even Williams were befroe they went out.

 

I've made this point before, but it bears repeating:

 

Our team relies too much on younger guys whose bodies haven't fully developed.

 

And when you think of the timing of this current regime overhaul and factor in the fitness time lost to the lockout, and we have a ton of underdeveloped guys on our roster, who are expected to contribute, but haven't even been through a full NFL offseason training program yet.

 

They're simply ill-equipped for the rigors of an NFL schedule.

WTF is this??

 

These guys show up in questionable shape every camp--even more so this year. But as adults, there bodies have finished "developing" (naturally, anyway).

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The Patriots lost their best player in 2008 and still managed to go 11-5. His replacement has not fared well in KC and may be done as a starter.

 

They would have been a 14+ win team with Brady. It was a huge dropoff and that was ONE guy. How do you like the way the Colts have held up losing Manning??

 

Let's look closely at the injuries that have hurt Buffalo most: Jackson, Wood, and Kyle Williams. The Bills had a 1st round pick to back up Fred who has underwhelmed. Shouldn't the expectation be that he adequately fill in for Jackson given the hype and praise he received from the staff on draft day 2010?

 

Yeah - Spiller's a disappoinment - we get it. It doesn't mean losing Freddy in the middile of his MVP-caliber season wasn't going to be a huge problem.

 

Meanwhile, they had no backup OC on the roster, so of course Wood's injury hurt significantly when they were forced to shuffle the left side of the OL. As for Williams, he was mostly their 1 gap 34 NT, where Dareus is playing, thus forcing Carrington to be LDE. And, they placed immense faith in Merriman not only producing, but remaining healthy at ROLB. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

 

How much would you invest in "backup OC"? It's not like the backup gets to play AT ALL without an injury. They do have backups - Urbik's OK, but there's no way we lose the one starting 1st round draft pick on the entire offense and not have it hurt.

 

Worse than Wood was losing both OLTs. That's when the losing streak started, and there's no team I'm aware of that can handle that loss - because no team can possibly afford to keep 3 good OLTs on the depth chart. They are too valuable.

 

Numerous people - including me - have already pointed out they left OLB a question mark going into the season. Merriman was a gamble, everyone knew that. Nix and Gailey also wanted to see what they had in Moats and Batten. It needed to be done - they've done it - and you can expect OLB upgrades next year. They can't draft every position at once - sorry.

 

Again it would have been lovely if the Broncos had just given us their pick out of kindness - then we could have added Dareus AND Miller. Sadly the greedy bastards hung on to their own 1st-rounder and we could only address one need in the first.

 

 

The Bills are like an individual who lives in hurricane country and refuses to purchase homeowners insurance because it costs too much. When the home is damanged in a storm, he complains that he can't fix it now for lack of funds despite making 7 figures.

 

Not a clue why you think there is a useful analogy here.

 

NO NFL TEAMS go 2-deep with starters at OC nor do they go 3-deep at OLT. NONE. Costs too much.

 

You have to get a little lucky with injuries to win in the NFL - the Ravens fans/media know they have that this year. We'll get our turn.

Edited by BobChalmers
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The Patriots lost their best player in 2008 and still managed to go 11-5. His replacement has not fared well in KC and may be done as a starter.

 

Let's look closely at the injuries that have hurt Buffalo most: Jackson, Wood, and Kyle Williams. The Bills had a 1st round pick to back up Fred who has underwhelmed. Shouldn't the expectation be that he adequately fill in for Jackson given the hype and praise he received from the staff on draft day 2010? Meanwhile, they had no backup OC on the roster, so of course Wood's injury hurt significantly when they were forced to shuffle the left side of the OL. As for Williams, he was mostly their 1 gap 34 NT, where Dareus is playing, thus forcing Carrington to be LDE. And, they placed immense faith in Merriman not only producing, but remaining healthy at ROLB. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills are like an individual who lives in hurricane country and refuses to purchase homeowners insurance because it costs too much. When the home is damanged in a storm, he complains that he can't fix it now for lack of funds despite making 7 figures.

 

Yeah, except that Patriots* team won 18 games in a row the season before...to go from 18 wins to 11 as opposed to 4 to 5...

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The Patriots lost their best player in 2008 and still managed to go 11-5. His replacement has not fared well in KC and may be done as a starter.

 

Let's look closely at the injuries that have hurt Buffalo most: Jackson, Wood, and Kyle Williams. The Bills had a 1st round pick to back up Fred who has underwhelmed. Shouldn't the expectation be that he adequately fill in for Jackson given the hype and praise he received from the staff on draft day 2010? Meanwhile, they had no backup OC on the roster, so of course Wood's injury hurt significantly when they were forced to shuffle the left side of the OL. As for Williams, he was mostly their 1 gap 34 NT, where Dareus is playing, thus forcing Carrington to be LDE. And, they placed immense faith in Merriman not only producing, but remaining healthy at ROLB. Talk about setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills are like an individual who lives in hurricane country and refuses to purchase homeowners insurance because it costs too much. When the home is damanged in a storm, he complains that he can't fix it now for lack of funds despite making 7 figures.

 

1) The Bills aren't as deep as a team that has been arguably the best team of the last decade.

 

2) The PAts were 16-0 the year before. And Cassell isn't great but he did take the Chiefs to the playoffs last year with an excellent td to int ratio.

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I would say three of their best players. If your center is one of your 3 best players, your team is awful.

 

In fairness to the original article - I believe the PFW writer used the word "most talented". Wood may well fit that description. He is, after all, the only 1st-round pick who starts for the offense.

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While olb is a major need so is DE.

 

Why do you think DE is an issue??

 

 

There's no comparison to starting either Dareus or Kyle Williams at DE with guys like Edwards and Carrington to add in to the DE position.... Remember - Dareus is a DE. Williams could be too if we find a new NT.

 

Compare this with starting OLBs who are either a converted DT (Spencer Johnson) a converted DE (Kelsay) a broken veteran (Merriman) and then who knows what (Moats/Batten) at OLB.

 

Healthy, the D-Line of this team is pretty good.

 

The OLB situation - oh yeah - the most important position on a 3-4 defense - is a nightmare, even if they were all healthy.

Edited by BobChalmers
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Injuries hurt, sure. But a good team would have solid depth and coaching to make up for them (see Packers last year). The excuses need to stop.

 

Actually, your ignoring the OP so you can keep repeating your "tough talk" about injury excuses needs to stop. It's boring.

 

The independent assessment from PFW says the Bills have the worst injury situation in the league this year - but you don't want to hear that? Why not??

 

 

It would be fair to question why this seems to keep happening the last few years. Could be bad luck - could be something wrong with the training. Maybe they need to consider different playing surfaces - don't know - but something is clearly a recurring problem, and it's not an illusion - it's quite real, and observable to even outsiders.

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I've made this point before, but it bears repeating:

 

Our team relies too much on younger guys whose bodies haven't fully developed.

 

And when you think of the timing of this current regime overhaul and factor in the fitness time lost to the lockout, and we have a ton of underdeveloped guys on our roster, who are expected to contribute, but haven't even been through a full NFL offseason training program yet.

 

They're simply ill-equipped for the rigors of an NFL schedule.

I look forward to when Marcell D. hits puberty.

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Good (deep) teams overcome injuries. Run of the mill teams do not.

 

This team needs to:

Develop a pass rush w/out blitzing. Last year Capers blitzed about 35% of the time, this year he's gone to 50% because his front can't generate a pass rush. The Packers' defense this year is not as good as it was last year. People keep talking about the need for a blitzing LB, but the front needs to generate their own sacks. The Bills are typically in a 4 man front, I believe, on passing downs. I don't care whether you call the 4th guy a LB or DE, they must get to the QB without having to rush more than 4.

 

Beyond that (LB/D-line)...we need help at CB, WR & O-line. Put them in whatever order is to your liking.

Yea, the Packers were foolish to let Cullen Jenkins leave in free agency, he was a big reason why they were so good in their front four. He is doing great with Philly now. But perhaps that team has so many stars its tough to maintain and pay them all.

 

 

Anyway, the current Bills defensive coaches are complete idiots for not implementing a 4-3 with Kelsay as DE where he should be, KW & MD as DT's would be basically un-blockable in the middle as how can opposing team double both.I just don't get how these coaches can even try and run a 3-4 with the players they have.

 

I hope RW wakes up long enough at some point and compels Gailey to fire his defensive staff and hire someone like Mike Nolan if they insist on running a 3-4. On that note if he is fully awake and comprehensive I'd further hope instead of just the D, he fires the entire coaching staff and hires Jeff Fisher. A man who would bring blue collar football back to Buffalo. Along with a great running game and great defense, with a killer 4-3 !

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