Is there any doubt we need a FRANCHISE QB ?

[MRW]

He had more than two. Two were picked. Many off target. He played poorly and frankly today's game isn't a rarity for his career. People acting like KC is what he normally does are kidding themselves. He's middle of the pack. Middle of the pack isn't good enough longterm at qb. It'll do for now but not for long. He's got a lot more in common with jay Fiedler than Brady, manning, brees or Rodgers

I think there's a real danger with this argument of tossing away the good in pursuit of perfection. I'd be ok with the Bills spending some reasonably high picks to try to find a guy who is better than Fitzpatrick - but I don't think Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers can be the standard - they're elite players in the league and don't come along all that often.

[eme123]

Ralph is cheap. We should have traded the house for Rodgers, Brady, or Brees. They were all available I'm sure.

 

Wait maybe we could have signed a FA qb. You know what we could have drafted Dalton.

 

But we stuck w/ Fitz. We are doomed. I wish we weren't so cheap.

[John from Riverside]

What a stupid idiotic thread

[1B4IDie]

Reactive maybe. Yes you throw some int like Favre, he was a gunslinger to, but not at critical moments, and yes i'm being objective because it's the 3rd game in a row with this kind of mistakes. Look at the Phily game, Fitz throw a lot of stones in screen passes, and in the Cincy game the same. Fitz is and must be our QB this year but we need a franchise QB to be a contender for years to come.

Farvre didn't throw ints at critical moments?

You might want to fact check that one.

 

Fitz has played the same way for the last 6 games and last year as well.

 

He takes risks and sometimes is scatter armed.

 

That is the way it is. Nothing has changed.

[Casey D]

What a stupid idiotic thread

Indeed.

[Dorkington]

As far as I'm concerned, we have our guy.

[marvlevy]

The game losing interception should be blamed on the coaching staff if they called that play. Wasn't there about 4 minutes left? I thought they would chip away at the clock and either run into the end zone or kick the game winner with time gone.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

It's the 3rd game with a lot of bad throws of Fitzpatrick. Today 2 underthrows became int specially the 2nd cost us the game and that last drive prove we need a franchise QB. I know it's not all Fitz fault but it's clear as water. We have a very good backfield, a good group of WR, a decent OL (spite of the injuries). But the D doesn't make the right adjustments and the QB has all day to get rid of the ball. I'm just pissed, lose because a team outplayed you, fine. But lose because your own mistakes like today and that Cincy game just makes me crazy.

Fitz is almost a franchise QB just that arm strength is lacking. Unfortunately we will need a fanchise QB to get this team to the SB which is why I posted a thread yesterday about Drafting Ryan Tannehill.

[Chimp]

You're being anything but objective.

If you're going to play gunslinger football with your QB, he is going to throw some ints.

Both of those were underthrown and both were very good plays by Webster.

You live by the gun, you die by the gun.

You're being more than a little reactive.

No, he is being objective. You cannot see through your love of fitz. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers...none of them underthrow SJ twice for two picks that are quite possibly 2 touchdowns. I love the Amish Rifle and want him to succeed here, but I think they need to find a franchise guy.

[Fan in Chicago]

No, he is being objective. You cannot see through your love of fitz. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers...none of them underthrow SJ twice for two picks that are quite possibly 2 touchdowns. I love the Amish Rifle and want him to succeed here, but I think they need to find a franchise guy.

Both those INts were squarely on Fitz. I am torn on the issue of whether we 'need' a franchise QB or we can make do with Fitz. On the one hand, I see him to be quite smart, plays with guts, has a short memory and has a never say die attitude. On the other, he is prone to making these game-killing mistakes and some poorly thrown balls. Yes, Gailey can live with his shortcomings but it severely hampers the play calling. As an example, Gailey should be free to call whatever plays he thinks will drive the stake deeper through the hearts of the opponents. Instead, he has to play it safe and concentrate on time clock management and trying to keep the ball last. Depending on who is available in the first round next year, QB and WR are both equally possible for us to draft. BPA

[Stormin Norman]

We are seeing what we're going to get with Ryan. He operates like a machine in stretches, and then operates like a backup in others. For whatever reason, his mistakes seem particularly head-scratching, like the INT vs. Baltimore last year when we were driving to win the game. Or the two picks today. Why is that intermediate sideline sprint pass so hard for him to lay out there correctly when he makes all these other tremendous throws? We're driving for the winning score on the road in a tightly contested game and a very poor throw does us in. FRUSTRATING.

 

At other times, he's a Robo-QB, like the five drives against the Raiders in the second half and the dropped pass to Stevie against the Steelers (last year).

 

He has to find a way to overcome (i.e., AVOID) these major physical/mental lapses in crunch time. WIth that said, I want him to continue firing and not succumb to the "play not to lose" garbage we've seen for ten years.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

OK, Fitzy has come back down to earth but I think we can win with him.

 

Of course, if you are drafting and a franchise QB is there you take him. Take the best player on the board always and every single time.

You mean like Spiller when you have 2 starting RBs?

[Billshank Redemption]

hes okay but i still think we need a franchise qb he might be the guy to have someone sit behind before developing him.

[fansince88]

You're being anything but objective.

If you're going to play gunslinger football with your QB, he is going to throw some ints.

Both of those were underthrown and both were very good plays by Webster.

You live by the gun, you die by the gun.

You're being more than a little reactive.

Agreed, And to add to this, it was the defensive pass interfearance calls that cost the game more than the into.

[RkFast]

"Franchise QBs" never throw picks.

 

 

 

Just ask Tom Brady.

[1B4IDie]

No, he is being objective. You cannot see through your love of fitz. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers...none of them underthrow SJ twice for two picks that are quite possibly 2 touchdowns. I love the Amish Rifle and want him to succeed here, but I think they need to find a franchise guy.

If you're being objective than you have to give him credit for all throws he throws when the player is triple covered, the come from behind wins, and the NFL's fastest decision.

 

Then weigh that against a little scattered armed-ness.

 

Yeah he wasn't drafted in the first round, but there is no reason not to keep riding the Amish Rifle for the next few seasons.

 

Sure draft a QB in the first 32 picks if the draft works that way but freaking sign Fitzy.

[NoSaint]

I think there's a real danger with this argument of tossing away the good in pursuit of perfection. I'd be ok with the Bills spending some reasonably high picks to try to find a guy who is better than Fitzpatrick - but I don't think Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers can be the standard - they're elite players in the league and don't come along all that often.

Agreed. I'm glad he's starting for us, and we haven't just taken whoever was available. My point was that in order to be a year in and year out contender we need to pull the trigger on the guy if he happens to be there. I'm a big fitz fan but he's not a guy that's going to fill up a hand with rings. In the meantime it's good fun football but he has limitations that put a ceiling on him and the team long term.

[Tim Tindale]

This thread is a laugh. Brady threw 4 picks in their loss to the Bills and is having a lousy game against the Cowboys. I doubt Boston is complaining about their lack of a franchise quarterback. Fitz has had injuries across his OL and has lost 3 of his top 5 WR's since the preseason (Evans, Jones, and Parrish). This team is light years ahead of anything we've had in Buffalo for well over a decade. We're a top 5 offense that puts up 20+ pts every game. We don't have an issue on offense and especially qb. Give it a rest. It's hard to win on the road in the NFL and we have two road losses to winning teams by under 7 points each. This year has been a lot of fun and Fitzy is a big part of the resurgence. How about enjoying the ride...

 

By the way, didn't we under-spend the cap by 20MM+ this year. We've way overachieved, especially given the injuries.

[billsfreak]

It's the 3rd game with a lot of bad throws of Fitzpatrick. Today 2 underthrows became int specially the 2nd cost us the game and that last drive prove we need a franchise QB. I know it's not all Fitz fault but it's clear as water. We have a very good backfield, a good group of WR, a decent OL (spite of the injuries). But the D doesn't make the right adjustments and the QB has all day to get rid of the ball. I'm just pissed, lose because a team outplayed you, fine. But lose because your own mistakes like today and that Cincy game just makes me crazy.

I like Fitz, he is at times exciting, others frustrating, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but I have said since the day they signed him he is no franchise quarterback. He can make a team competitive, can lose games for you (today), can win games for you, but no team can win a championship with him behind center. Isn't winning a championship supposed to the be goal for all organizations?

[bobobonators]

I would personally LOVE to have the opportunity to read the performance reviews some of you guys have at work. This was by far the worst game Fitz has had all year and he still had 2td's to go along with his 2int's...for the year he has 12td's and 6int's with a QB rating in the upper 90's..the team is 4-2. HOLY JESUS, THE SKY IS FALLING!

[Fixxxer]

What a stupid idiotic thread

 

+1

 

I hate this reactive threads, lazy thought process without an ounce of objectivity.

[dbmu1977]

Fitz made two bad throws on the road with the giants push rush chasing him all day long. Those two throws are the same ones he has been completing to stevie all year long. If drayton florence turns around instead of intefering, maybe he picks the ball late in the game. The bills had the g-men on their heels and were going for the win. How many picks has Brady made today, you wanna bench him too?

[bobobonators]

+1

 

I hate this reactive threads, lazy thought process without an ounce of objectivity.

 

Perfectly stated.

[Just in Atlanta]

Is there any doubt? Because of two interceptions? And the defense had nothing to do with this loss?

 

Where are we going to find this magical franchise QB? The quarterback patch? We've been waiting around for 13 years for this elusive figure. I'll be grey before this OP is happy.

 

He'll occasionaly throw a bad pass. His deep ball isn't the best. But he's a winner.

 

Not ashamed to use a geeky cliche. Worst thread ever.

[Talley56]

Aside from 1 pic I don't recall Fitz playing that poorly against the Eagles.

 

As for today's game, I had to listen to the game on radio so I didn't get to see all of his passes but I've gotten to see some of it. It looked like the first int was a bad pass but the second one just looked like a nice defensive play by Webster. Also, after having only been sacked 4 times in the first 5 games he was sacked 3 times today, twice in a row at one point. That can rattle a guy. For now, I believe in Fitz as a guy who can get us to the playoffs this year and maybe even in the distant future.

[MRW]

Agreed. I'm glad he's starting for us, and we haven't just taken whoever was available. My point was that in order to be a year in and year out contender we need to pull the trigger on the guy if he happens to be there. I'm a big fitz fan but he's not a guy that's going to fill up a hand with rings. In the meantime it's good fun football but he has limitations that put a ceiling on him and the team long term.

And likewise agreed - if Barkley or Landry Jones or someone is there at the Bills' spot and they think he can be a franchise guy, by all means take him (haven't kept up with QB performances this year, no idea how these guys are doing). But no trades up like the Jets did to get Sanchez, or feeling like they need to draft a guy in the first or second if they're not confident he will develop.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's the 3rd game with a lot of bad throws of Fitzpatrick. Today 2 underthrows became int specially the 2nd cost us the game and that last drive prove we need a franchise QB. I know it's not all Fitz fault but it's clear as water. We have a very good backfield, a good group of WR, a decent OL (spite of the injuries). But the D doesn't make the right adjustments and the QB has all day to get rid of the ball. I'm just pissed, lose because a team outplayed you, fine. But lose because your own mistakes like today and that Cincy game just makes me crazy.

 

Yes, there is doubt that we need a franchise QB. Would it be nice to have Tom Brady yes, but There Is Only One.

 

I could logic this: point out that Fitz getting rid of the ball in an AVERAGE of 1.5 sec is making the OL look better, point out that Fitz is making it look easy to throw to an injury-decimated WR core, point out that Fitz is showing up at press conferences with his throwing hand bandaged up. "A lot of bad throws" in the last three games, give me a break. He threw 77.8% completions last week for a 92.6% QB rating. Yeah, he threw two picks today, but overall 70% completions. How's a guy manage that when he has "a lot of bad throws"?

 

But I won't. Y'all ain't the sort to listen to logic.

 

Fitz knows those two INT throws sucked. Listen to his press conference. The question is does he take the right lesson from it, learn from it but not get too down on himself and lose confidence? Manning was under fire after his crappy game last Sunday, and he pulled it together. My money's on Fitz to do the same and Chan to help him do it. Every QB makes bad throws sometimes.

 

Bottom line: you all in this thread are certified "baby with the Bathwater" tossers. If we were to draft a bona-fide Franchise QB, you'd be all over his a** every time he had a bad game behind a banged-up OL with 3rd tier WR until we Younged him out of Tampa-er BUFFALO- in two years - just in time to be all over the GM's a** for trading away an obvious winner. If we had Stafford you'd have been all over his a** last year for being injury-prone, trade the b**tch. If we had Bradford you'd be all over his a** for failing to save us from an 0-5 record when we almost went to the playoffs last year.

 

Give. Me. A. Break.

[Brandon]

I wouldn't be in any hurry to replace him. The only thing that's wrong with Fitz is that if he doesn't lead them to 30 points, they're probably not going to win. He's not a great QB, but he's still a good one, and if the Bills continue to build the rest of the team around him they can win with him.

[folz]

1. Didn't Brady and Vick both have 4 Int games against us just this year? Even great QBs have bad days.

 

2. People bring up the hall of fame QBs (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers?). How many teams at any given

time have a HOF QB (maybe 3 or 4). That leaves 28-29 teams without a QB like that. We've been looking

to get another one since Kelly retired in '96. People act like it is easy to go out a get a future HOFer. It's not.

 

3. The Bills have said they we're going to draft Newton if Carolina didn't (even though I was against the idea at the time---guess I was wrong).

 

4. Fitzpatrick has brought more hope, fun, and exciting play of any QB in Buffalo since Flutie and before that Kelly. Does he have his weaknesses?

Sure. But his strengths outweigh his weaknesses on most days, he's a great leader who has his team behind him, the team is winning games,

they're fun to watch, and when they're down they're not necessarily out anymore.

 

5. We were playing with a backup rookie left tackle in only his second game, and then when he went out we had our guard playing left tackle

and his back-up in at guard against one of the best pass rushing defenses in the league.

 

6. Our WR core was depleted from injuries.

 

7. The defense was without Kyle Williams and Shawne Merriman and didn't do their part in shutting the Giants down to make the picks not hurt us.

 

8. We were playing a team that just got embarrassed at home last week back at their house (on the road for us).

 

I'm disappointed in the loss too and I'm really not trying to make excuses for it; I'm just saying its not time to panic and abandon ship

on anyone. Despite Fitz's (and the defense's) bad day, we only lost by 3 on the road to a decent team. I mean, what is the point of calling

for a Franchise (especially when you really mean HOF type) QB when it isn't easy to find one and the FO obviously wouldn't pass one up if the

opportunity arose. Until that day...I am so glad that Fitz is our QB and I'm behind him 100%. Keep some perspective, give the guy a break,

and keep rooting for him.

[bg17]

Haven't seen all the stats from around the league today, but after last week Sanchez, Gabbert, and Bradford were bringing up the rear in ESPN QBR. What is a franchise quarterback anyway? And yes, I know Gabbert hasn't even had a cup of coffee yet and Bradford has nothing around him. That wouldn't stop some folks here from declaring them both busts.

[opfball91]

Look I love Fitz as much as the next fan but we need to be realistic, we can improve on him, pretty substantially in my opinion. Not to mention he'd be a great mentor to a young guy.

[PO'14]

I'll tell you two things since you're new here.

1) That kind of stuff will get you removed in very short order. If you want to yell and call people stupid, go somewhere else because it isn't welcome here.

2) You're yapping like a chihuahua at one of the best posters on this board and if he wants he'll probably make you look like a buffoon in about 2 sentences.

 

 

Sorry I dont conform with one of the so called BEST POSTERS on a Public Messageboard. And secondly, saying someone wrote something stupid in my opinion doesnt mean I am calling the person Stupid! We are both Bills fans.

 

Its sad to think that one of the BEST POSTERS wants a Franchise QB when they are few and far between in this washed up league.

 

Oh well, sorry if I offended one of the favorite posters.

 

By the way, Im still waiting for his 2 sentences. Maybe hes gone for the night or maybe he realized that in fact there are only a handful franchise QBs in the league and that his comment was a little far fetched.

 

Maybe he misses Edwards, Losman and Rob Johnson,,,,who knows!

 

 

Cheers

[Simon]

Sorry I dont conform with .......

 

Or maybe he's smarter than me and just has no interest in wasting his time conversing with a poster who's obviously desperate for attention and whose primary contribution to the board seems to be running around and yelling at people.

 

Yea- I've outlined my feelings on fitz more than a couple times in this thread and they more or less have remained constant in the dozens of occasions ive hopped in the conversation over the last 18 months or so. Fitz has bumped up a few spots in my book since then, but I think he is what he is at this point - and that's good for now. He might have hot weeks/months and might have weak ones.... Generally his arm isn't top notch. It's NFL caliber but it's not one that'll win a lot more than it loses. Saying we need an upgrade isn't saying cut him, or bring in whoever immediately to blindly replace him. It's an assessment that we are pretty middle of the pack at the most important position on the field. I'm thankful we are higher up than we've been in the past at that position, but it's not where we need to be to win consistently long term. Sorry that you find that commentary to be so asinine.

 

Or maybe he'll show up any second now and contrast your repetitive shouting with another sensible post that earns him more respect in a single paragraph than you've earned since you showed up.

[benderbender]

Is there any doubt? Because of two interceptions? And the defense had nothing to do with this loss?

 

Where are we going to find this magical franchise QB? The quarterback patch? We've been waiting around for 13 years for this elusive figure. I'll be grey before this OP is happy.

 

He'll occasionaly throw a bad pass. His deep ball isn't the best. But he's a winner.

 

Not ashamed to use a geeky cliche. Worst thread ever.

 

He has average arm strength and mediocre accuracy, but somehow he's a winner. I forgot to look on the back of his football card to see how much his "winner" score was. Or did he bring his "winner" title from Cincinnati?

[PO'14]

Yea- I've outlined my feelings on fitz more than a couple times in this thread and they more or less have remained constant in the dozens of occasions ive hopped in the conversation over the last 18 months or so. Fitz has bumped up a few spots in my book since then, but I think he is what he is at this point - and that's good for now. He might have hot weeks/months and might have weak ones.... Generally his arm isn't top notch. It's NFL caliber but it's not one that'll win a lot more than it loses. Saying we need an upgrade isn't saying cut him, or bring in whoever immediately to blindly replace him. It's an assessment that we are pretty middle of the pack at the most important position on the field. I'm thankful we are higher up than we've been in the past at that position, but it's not where we need to be to win consistently long term. Sorry that you find that commentary to be so asinine.

 

 

I dont find nothing asinine. As Ive stated many times now, finding a franchise quarterback is the quest of every team. However, there are not enough of these so called Franchise QBs to throw around. To compare Fitz to Fiedler versus Fitz to Rodgers, Brady, Brees and Manning is stating the obvious. 26 other teams can do the same thing but the solution is not as easy as you think.

 

We are both cheer for the Bills. Fitz is doing a good job. We could be 6-0 as much as we could be 1-5. We can win with Fitz, but we cant win with this defense.

 

Cheers

[NoSaint]

I dont find nothing asinine. As Ive stated many times now, finding a franchise quarterback is the quest of every team. However, there are not enough of these so called Franchise QBs to throw around. To compare Fitz to Fiedler versus Fitz to Rodgers, Brady, Brees and Manning is stating the obvious. 26 other teams can do the same thing but the solution is not as easy as you think.

 

We are both cheer for the Bills. Fitz is doing a good job. We could be 6-0 as much as we could be 1-5. We can win with Fitz, but we cant win with this defense.

 

Cheers

 

 

See how much more reasonable that was than our last go around- I think you'll enjoy your time around here a lot more if you take a few deep breathes more often.

[PO'14]

Or maybe he's smarter than me and just has no interest in wasting his time conversing with a poster who's obviously desperate for attention and whose primary contribution to the board seems to be running around and yelling at people.

 

 

 

Or maybe he'll show up any second now and contrast your repetitive shouting with another sensible post that earns him more respect in a single paragraph than you've earned since you showed up.

 

 

If youve read my first 20 posts or so you will notice that I have shown full respect. Today I just witnessed my team lose and some want to compare Fitz to Fiedler rather than 4 future Hall of Famer Quarterbacks. Please explain why I shouldnt be irritated.

 

Sorry Mr. Moderator for not drinking the Kool-Aid!

[John Cocktosten]

Fitz is limited no doubt but he is a great stop gap. Sign him to a 3 year contract and draft a QB to develop over those 3 years. I love Kellen Moore and he will be there in the 3rd. Everyone keeps doubting him but he's deadly accurate and clutch beyond belief.

 

In Fitz's defense to his recent play, he's not playing with a full arsenal. Naaman is his #2....nuff said.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He had more than two. Two were picked. Many off target. He played poorly and frankly today's game isn't a rarity for his career. People acting like KC is what he normally does are kidding themselves. He's middle of the pack. Middle of the pack isn't good enough longterm at qb. It'll do for now but not for long. He's got a lot more in common with jay Fiedler than Brady, manning, brees or Rodgers

 

I agree, KC is not what Fitz normally does. Very few QB do. I guess I wonder what folks mean by "many" in the phrase "many off target"?

A QB simply can't throw "many off target" and hit 70% completion, which is where Fitz was this game. 78% last week in the Eagles game.

 

There is only one QB currently playing who has more than 70% completion over 6 games and his name isn't Brady, Manning, or Brees.

 

I could be wrong, I tend to think people's perceptions of Fitz are colored by expectations. I have seen Fitz over and underthrow this year. I have seen many better QB over and under throw.

Last year I saw 2-3 "WTF?" throws per game. I haven't been seeing those this year.

 

I think people look at Fitz through "he's inaccurate" glasses and come up with this "many" tag which seems factually and statistically undeserved right now, where a "great" QB can under and overthrow a few times each game and it goes unremarked.

 

He has average arm strength and mediocre accuracy, but somehow he's a winner. I forgot to look on the back of his football card to see how much his "winner" score was. Or did he bring his "winner" title from Cincinnati?

 

This is getting old.

 

Last year is last year. The "pro bowl" and the "superbowl" and the "losses" of yesteryear are equally unavailing.

 

No one is claiming Fitz has been a winner all his pro-football life.

There are QB who develop like that - they are backups, or see little playing time, and take ~30 games of playing time to develop.

[#34fan]

You don't throw a pass like that with that kind of field position in the fourth quarter. Not to a wide out. Maybe a little shovel pass, or something safe to a tight end, but that particular throw was just DUMB. And even if you do take that kind of a chance, you play it safe, by OVERTHROWING IT. If your guy doesn't catch it, no one else should either.