Jared Gaither for our second pick?

[Beerball]

Whatcha think?

[bkc]

Whatcha think?

sounds to good to be true

[JB_55]

I think YES

[WVUFootball29]

Dan Williams at 9 and Jared Gaither with our 2nd...sounds like the makings of a great draft day experience

[Celtic_soulja]

Yes Gaither would be well worth the pick...but it says a 2nd round pick gets the conversation started...how much more would they want?...and is he worth two picks in this deep draft?...for us I say yeah...but then we're definitely looking at question marks on the defense...so...we'll see...but I would definitely be jumping for joy to get Gaither in a Bills uni

[billsfan89]

I think we would have to probably throw in other picks besides pick 41. Most likely a 4th and a 6th or a 3rd next year plus the 2nd this season and a 6th this season.

 

I would love for it to happen at the right price. LT is such a big need and if we can get a solid one like Gather to nasty up our O-line and free up our 3rd round and 1st round picks to be much more fluid (NT, MLB, WR, RT, and QB could be addressed pick 9 but none of them are as big of a need as LT) allowing us to draft the best player at pick 9.

 

If the trade was our 2nd and our 6th this season plus a conditional 4th next season (That could escalate to a 3rd) I would do it. Its a really good amount of picks for the Ravens and a really good player for us.

[BillsFan74]

How about we swap firsts and give them a 3rd or 2nd if necessary.

[rafter]

Anyone know why he is available? Are the ravens having difficulty re-signing him?

[sharper802]

Dan Williams at 9 and Jared Gaither with our 2nd...sounds like the makings of a great draft day experience

Can I get an amen brother?

[sharper802]

2nd and Whitner?????

[mjohns85]

i say pull the trigger on the trade and draft trent williams at #9 and call it a day

[dpberr]

That is a trade I would love.

[bizell]

why didn't buffalo go after him in the initial supplemental draft?

[SawchukBills]

Can I get an amen brother?

 

Amen! I would consider giving up our 1st for Gaither...and 2nd! That's a no-brainer. (Assuming we can sign him long-term once his contract is up)

[purple haze]

I think we would have to probably throw in other picks besides pick 41. Most likely a 4th and a 6th or a 3rd next year plus the 2nd this season and a 6th this season.

 

I would love for it to happen at the right price. LT is such a big need and if we can get a solid one like Gather to nasty up our O-line and free up our 3rd round and 1st round picks to be much more fluid (NT, MLB, WR, RT, and QB could be addressed pick 9 but none of them are as big of a need as LT) allowing us to draft the best player at pick 9.

 

If the trade was our 2nd and our 6th this season plus a conditional 4th next season (That could escalate to a 3rd) I would do it. Its a really good amount of picks for the Ravens and a really good player for us.

 

I doubt they would have to give up all of that. The 2nd and 6th should work. I wouldn't include anything in next years draft. This would be great if they could do it. Then trade out of 9 and get that 2nd round pick back or an extra 3rd.

[billsfan89]

I doubt they would have to give up all of that. The 2nd and 6th should work. I wouldn't include anything in next years draft. This would be great if they could do it. Then trade out of 9 and get that 2nd round pick back or an extra 3rd.

 

If it takes a 5th or 4th next year plus the 2nd and 6th this year I would pull the trigger. Its going to take away a good package to pry Gather away from the Ravens. Giving them two picks this year (A high pick plus a late pick) and a mid round pick next season is a great package they wouldn't be able to resist. If its just the 2nd and a 6th another team would easily try and match that offer. But throwing in the future mid pick makes our offer likely the best one out there.

[NewEra]

git er dun

[OldTimer1960]

Why all the excitement about getting Jared Gaither and why does anyone think he is worth a 2nd, let alone more?

 

He is a big tall OT (note I didn't say good LT) and he is young, but he was also noted for not working very hard

just a few years ago coming out of college and I don't think he has proven that he is a special tackle in the NFL.

If he had shown that he'd be a really good LT or even RT for that matter, I can't imagine why the Ravens (one

of the most astute personell managing teams in the league) would be considering trading him.

 

Buyer beware.

[Thurman#1]

Anyone know why he is available? Are the ravens having difficulty re-signing him?

 

 

 

Yeah, they're having trouble signing him.

 

Having siad that he's not available. People here think that because he was only offered a first-round tender, that's a sure-fire sign that the Ravens want to get rid of him. But if you look, how many guys with first-round tenders end up going to different teams in trades each year? One, maybe? Two? And you know who they are going to be, they're the ones who no longer fit into the system since the team is going to a bigger/smaller/3-4/4-3/zone-blocking system, or guys who have become a disturbance in the locker room ... It's guys we all know are going to go. The huge, gigantic majority of guys offered a first-round tender stay with their teams.

 

It's not usually a signal that someone is available, it's usually an obvious statement that the team doesn't want to pay the player the extra 750 K or so which they have to pay if they give a higher tender.

 

What everyone forgets is that

 

Let's compare the Ravens situation now to their situation if they let Gaither go. Right now, they have two terrific tackles, both of whom are terrific run blockers. The Ravens were 5th in the league last year at total running yards, and 4th in the league at YPC, with 4.7, which is just a great result. Football Outsiders stats also show them as the 4th best offensive line at run blocking in the league. Football Outsiders also shows that Oher is simply the best run-blocking RT in the league and Gaither is the 13th best run-blocking LT in the league. They are a run-first team, a team that forces you to defend the run by smashing the hell out of you, which then gives them a chance to pass while their still-young, very promising but still-not-there-yet QB learns his trade. In other words, they're doing exactly what they want to do.

 

Football Outsiders link: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Now, let's look at how they would do if they let Gaither go. Oher is moved to LT, where he almost definitely continues to be a force as a run-blocker. I'll have more to say about his pass blocking in a moment. Replacing Oher at RT is Tony Moll, the backup there. Moll is a 5th rounder who went to college at Nevada. This'll be his fifth year. He's played mostly right guard, but to be precise, he's mostly been a backup. In four years, he has been in started 15 games and participated (special teams? or to give the starter a breather?) in 39 games. He's not a particularly good player, though he's a solid backup. And the Ravens are happily going to plug this guy in at RT? Are you kidding? So, who else would fill the RT slot? The draft pick that they get in the trade? So they take one of the absolute best run blocking units in the league and plug in an unproven RT to replace arguably the best RT in the league? In the Bizarro universe this may make sense, but not in this one. Not for a team that believes that they have a shot at the Super Bowl this year.

 

Now, opposite whoever they plug in at RT to not-replace Michael Oher, let's look at how Oher is likely to do at LT. Take a look at profootballfocus, the site which watches each game and grades each guy on performance. They even give separate score for run blocking, pass blocking, screen blocking and penalties. They are a highly respected website. Here's their summary of Michael Oher's performance last year:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4946

 

Overall, they list him as the 19th best tackle (they look at right and left tackles as one group) out of 77. But look closer, at the table at the bottom of the screen. He played 5 games at LT and 11 games at RT. They score average play as a zero, so you know that negative numbers show bad play and positive numbers show good play. In eleven games as an RT, he recieved a cumulative score of PLUS 13.6, an extremely good score. In five games as an LT however, his cumulative score was MINUS 9.1, and that is genuinely horrible, particularly in only five games. If you pro-rate those five games across a sixteen game season, Oher's score as a LEFT TACKLE would have been MINUS 29.12, and that would have put him in the rankings as the 76th best tackle in the league. OUT OF 77. The second-worst tackle in the league. On the other hand, if you prorate his 11 games at right tackle across a 16 game season, his score would have been PLUS 19.8, which would have placed him as the 3rd best tackle in the league out of 77.

 

 

I promised I'd get back to Oher's pass blocking abilities. In five games at LT, his pass blocking score was MINUS 3.9. In eleven games at RT? PLUS 8.4. He does pretty well against the guys he faces at RT, but against the hyper-athletic rushers he faced at LT, he simply couldn't get the job done. Pro-rate his five games at LT over a sixteen game season and you get MINUS 12.5 as a pass blocker. That would put him as the 69th best tackle out of 77, in other words, the 8th worst pass blocker in the league.

 

And you want to switch THAT GUY to LEFT TACKLE? Are you insane?

 

Perhaps if they were Cleveland or Oakland or ... I hate to say it , but with the way we have handled our OL the past five years or so, we fit with that group ... or Buffalo, they would do it. But the Ravens are a terrific organization and they don't do stupid things like this.

 

The Ravens don't want to trade Gaither, they want to keep him. If someone gives him a contract offer, the Ravens will match it.

 

Gaither is going nowhere.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Bills would be crazy not to be interested. But even if he is available (and I'm betting LaCanfora is simply wrong on this), he has one more year left on his contract, and he will want ... and get ... Jason Peters money. The Bills have shown themselves not to be willing to pay market value for an excellent LT.

[Thurman#1]

Why all the excitement about getting Jared Gaither and why does anyone think he is worth a 2nd, let alone more?

 

He is a big tall OT (note I didn't say good LT) and he is young, but he was also noted for not working very hard

just a few years ago coming out of college and I don't think he has proven that he is a special tackle in the NFL.

If he had shown that he'd be a really good LT or even RT for that matter, I can't imagine why the Ravens (one

of the most astute personell managing teams in the league) would be considering trading him.

 

Buyer beware.

 

 

 

Check this. He's darn good.

 

But as long as everyone thinks he's available for trade, they won't make an offer to Gaither that would require their first round pick. Then the Ravens can't quite come to agreement and Gaither doesn't get an offer that the Ravens have to match.

[DarthICE]

Dan Williams at 9 and Jared Gaither with our 2nd...sounds like the makings of a great draft day experience

 

 

Trade UP to get bradford, trade our 2nd for gaither and call it a day

[ganesh]

I think we would have to probably throw in other picks besides pick 41. Most likely a 4th and a 6th or a 3rd next year plus the 2nd this season and a 6th this season.

 

I would love for it to happen at the right price. LT is such a big need and if we can get a solid one like Gather to nasty up our O-line and free up our 3rd round and 1st round picks to be much more fluid (NT, MLB, WR, RT, and QB could be addressed pick 9 but none of them are as big of a need as LT) allowing us to draft the best player at pick 9.

 

If the trade was our 2nd and our 6th this season plus a conditional 4th next season (That could escalate to a 3rd) I would do it. Its a really good amount of picks for the Ravens and a really good player for us.

 

 

The problem is that the Bills would have to commit 60M in cash to extend his contract. They could have done with Jason Peters last year, but did not do so. Why would they be willing to shell 60M for another LT. I see them going into the draft and picking their DT and OT in Rd 1 and 2.

[Beerball]

I see them going into the draft and picking their DT and OT in Rd 1 and 2.

& perhaps keeping them for the duration of their rookie contracts, perhaps not. they will then start the entire process again.

 

 

lather/rinse/repeat? Can't keep doing that and expect the results to be different.

[Mr. ChumChums]

Yeah, they're having trouble signing him.

 

Having siad that he's not available. People here think that because he was only offered a first-round tender, that's a sure-fire sign that the Ravens want to get rid of him. But if you look, how many guys with first-round tenders end up going to different teams in trades each year? One, maybe? Two? And you know who they are going to be, they're the ones who no longer fit into the system since the team is going to a bigger/smaller/3-4/4-3/zone-blocking system, or guys who have become a disturbance in the locker room ... It's guys we all know are going to go. The huge, gigantic majority of guys offered a first-round tender stay with their teams.

 

It's not usually a signal that someone is available, it's usually an obvious statement that the team doesn't want to pay the player the extra 750 K or so which they have to pay if they give a higher tender.

 

What everyone forgets is that

 

Let's compare the Ravens situation now to their situation if they let Gaither go. Right now, they have two terrific tackles, both of whom are terrific run blockers. The Ravens were 5th in the league last year at total running yards, and 4th in the league at YPC, with 4.7, which is just a great result. Football Outsiders stats also show them as the 4th best offensive line at run blocking in the league. Football Outsiders also shows that Oher is simply the best run-blocking RT in the league and Gaither is the 13th best run-blocking LT in the league. They are a run-first team, a team that forces you to defend the run by smashing the hell out of you, which then gives them a chance to pass while their still-young, very promising but still-not-there-yet QB learns his trade. In other words, they're doing exactly what they want to do.

 

Football Outsiders link: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Now, let's look at how they would do if they let Gaither go. Oher is moved to LT, where he almost definitely continues to be a force as a run-blocker. I'll have more to say about his pass blocking in a moment. Replacing Oher at RT is Tony Moll, the backup there. Moll is a 5th rounder who went to college at Nevada. This'll be his fifth year. He's played mostly right guard, but to be precise, he's mostly been a backup. In four years, he has been in started 15 games and participated (special teams? or to give the starter a breather?) in 39 games. He's not a particularly good player, though he's a solid backup. And the Ravens are happily going to plug this guy in at RT? Are you kidding? So, who else would fill the RT slot? The draft pick that they get in the trade? So they take one of the absolute best run blocking units in the league and plug in an unproven RT to replace arguably the best RT in the league? In the Bizarro universe this may make sense, but not in this one. Not for a team that believes that they have a shot at the Super Bowl this year.

 

Now, opposite whoever they plug in at RT to not-replace Michael Oher, let's look at how Oher is likely to do at LT. Take a look at profootballfocus, the site which watches each game and grades each guy on performance. They even give separate score for run blocking, pass blocking, screen blocking and penalties. They are a highly respected website. Here's their summary of Michael Oher's performance last year:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4946

 

Overall, they list him as the 19th best tackle (they look at right and left tackles as one group) out of 77. But look closer, at the table at the bottom of the screen. He played 5 games at LT and 11 games at RT. They score average play as a zero, so you know that negative numbers show bad play and positive numbers show good play. In eleven games as an RT, he recieved a cumulative score of PLUS 13.6, an extremely good score. In five games as an LT however, his cumulative score was MINUS 9.1, and that is genuinely horrible, particularly in only five games. If you pro-rate those five games across a sixteen game season, Oher's score as a LEFT TACKLE would have been MINUS 29.12, and that would have put him in the rankings as the 76th best tackle in the league. OUT OF 77. The second-worst tackle in the league. On the other hand, if you prorate his 11 games at right tackle across a 16 game season, his score would have been PLUS 19.8, which would have placed him as the 3rd best tackle in the league out of 77.

 

 

I promised I'd get back to Oher's pass blocking abilities. In five games at LT, his pass blocking score was MINUS 3.9. In eleven games at RT? PLUS 8.4. He does pretty well against the guys he faces at RT, but against the hyper-athletic rushers he faced at LT, he simply couldn't get the job done. Pro-rate his five games at LT over a sixteen game season and you get MINUS 12.5 as a pass blocker. That would put him as the 69th best tackle out of 77, in other words, the 8th worst pass blocker in the league.

 

And you want to switch THAT GUY to LEFT TACKLE? Are you insane?

 

Perhaps if they were Cleveland or Oakland or ... I hate to say it , but with the way we have handled our OL the past five years ago, we fit with that group ... or Buffalo, they would do it. But the Ravens are a terrific organization and they don't do stupid things like this.

 

The Ravens don't want to trade Gaither, they want to keep him. If someone gives him a contract offer, the Ravens will match it.

 

Gaither is going nowhere.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Bills would be crazy not to be interested. But even if he is available (and I'm betting LaCanfora is simply wrong on this), he has one more year left on his contract, and he will want ... and get ... Jason Peters money. The Bills have shown themselves not to be willing to pay market value for an excellent LT.

 

Excellent post

[mrags]

Yeah, they're having trouble signing him.

 

Having siad that he's not available. People here think that because he was only offered a first-round tender, that's a sure-fire sign that the Ravens want to get rid of him. But if you look, how many guys with first-round tenders end up going to different teams in trades each year? One, maybe? Two? And you know who they are going to be, they're the ones who no longer fit into the system since the team is going to a bigger/smaller/3-4/4-3/zone-blocking system, or guys who have become a disturbance in the locker room ... It's guys we all know are going to go. The huge, gigantic majority of guys offered a first-round tender stay with their teams.

 

It's not usually a signal that someone is available, it's usually an obvious statement that the team doesn't want to pay the player the extra 750 K or so which they have to pay if they give a higher tender.

 

What everyone forgets is that

 

Let's compare the Ravens situation now to their situation if they let Gaither go. Right now, they have two terrific tackles, both of whom are terrific run blockers. The Ravens were 5th in the league last year at total running yards, and 4th in the league at YPC, with 4.7, which is just a great result. Football Outsiders stats also show them as the 4th best offensive line at run blocking in the league. Football Outsiders also shows that Oher is simply the best run-blocking RT in the league and Gaither is the 13th best run-blocking LT in the league. They are a run-first team, a team that forces you to defend the run by smashing the hell out of you, which then gives them a chance to pass while their still-young, very promising but still-not-there-yet QB learns his trade. In other words, they're doing exactly what they want to do.

 

Football Outsiders link: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Now, let's look at how they would do if they let Gaither go. Oher is moved to LT, where he almost definitely continues to be a force as a run-blocker. I'll have more to say about his pass blocking in a moment. Replacing Oher at RT is Tony Moll, the backup there. Moll is a 5th rounder who went to college at Nevada. This'll be his fifth year. He's played mostly right guard, but to be precise, he's mostly been a backup. In four years, he has been in started 15 games and participated (special teams? or to give the starter a breather?) in 39 games. He's not a particularly good player, though he's a solid backup. And the Ravens are happily going to plug this guy in at RT? Are you kidding? So, who else would fill the RT slot? The draft pick that they get in the trade? So they take one of the absolute best run blocking units in the league and plug in an unproven RT to replace arguably the best RT in the league? In the Bizarro universe this may make sense, but not in this one. Not for a team that believes that they have a shot at the Super Bowl this year.

 

Now, opposite whoever they plug in at RT to not-replace Michael Oher, let's look at how Oher is likely to do at LT. Take a look at profootballfocus, the site which watches each game and grades each guy on performance. They even give separate score for run blocking, pass blocking, screen blocking and penalties. They are a highly respected website. Here's their summary of Michael Oher's performance last year:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4946

 

Overall, they list him as the 19th best tackle (they look at right and left tackles as one group) out of 77. But look closer, at the table at the bottom of the screen. He played 5 games at LT and 11 games at RT. They score average play as a zero, so you know that negative numbers show bad play and positive numbers show good play. In eleven games as an RT, he recieved a cumulative score of PLUS 13.6, an extremely good score. In five games as an LT however, his cumulative score was MINUS 9.1, and that is genuinely horrible, particularly in only five games. If you pro-rate those five games across a sixteen game season, Oher's score as a LEFT TACKLE would have been MINUS 29.12, and that would have put him in the rankings as the 76th best tackle in the league. OUT OF 77. The second-worst tackle in the league. On the other hand, if you prorate his 11 games at right tackle across a 16 game season, his score would have been PLUS 19.8, which would have placed him as the 3rd best tackle in the league out of 77.

 

 

I promised I'd get back to Oher's pass blocking abilities. In five games at LT, his pass blocking score was MINUS 3.9. In eleven games at RT? PLUS 8.4. He does pretty well against the guys he faces at RT, but against the hyper-athletic rushers he faced at LT, he simply couldn't get the job done. Pro-rate his five games at LT over a sixteen game season and you get MINUS 12.5 as a pass blocker. That would put him as the 69th best tackle out of 77, in other words, the 8th worst pass blocker in the league.

 

And you want to switch THAT GUY to LEFT TACKLE? Are you insane?

 

Perhaps if they were Cleveland or Oakland or ... I hate to say it , but with the way we have handled our OL the past five years ago, we fit with that group ... or Buffalo, they would do it. But the Ravens are a terrific organization and they don't do stupid things like this.

 

The Ravens don't want to trade Gaither, they want to keep him. If someone gives him a contract offer, the Ravens will match it.

 

Gaither is going nowhere.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Bills would be crazy not to be interested. But even if he is available (and I'm betting LaCanfora is simply wrong on this), he has one more year left on his contract, and he will want ... and get ... Jason Peters money. The Bills have shown themselves not to be willing to pay market value for an excellent LT.

 

Aare you Insane for bringing logic to this board?

 

Really thought. Nice write up.

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, they're having trouble signing him.

 

Having siad that he's not available. People here think that because he was only offered a first-round tender, that's a sure-fire sign that the Ravens want to get rid of him. But if you look, how many guys with first-round tenders end up going to different teams in trades each year? One, maybe? Two? And you know who they are going to be, they're the ones who no longer fit into the system since the team is going to a bigger/smaller/3-4/4-3/zone-blocking system, or guys who have become a disturbance in the locker room ... It's guys we all know are going to go. The huge, gigantic majority of guys offered a first-round tender stay with their teams.

 

It's not usually a signal that someone is available, it's usually an obvious statement that the team doesn't want to pay the player the extra 750 K or so which they have to pay if they give a higher tender.

 

What everyone forgets is that

 

Let's compare the Ravens situation now to their situation if they let Gaither go. Right now, they have two terrific tackles, both of whom are terrific run blockers. The Ravens were 5th in the league last year at total running yards, and 4th in the league at YPC, with 4.7, which is just a great result. Football Outsiders stats also show them as the 4th best offensive line at run blocking in the league. Football Outsiders also shows that Oher is simply the best run-blocking RT in the league and Gaither is the 13th best run-blocking LT in the league. They are a run-first team, a team that forces you to defend the run by smashing the hell out of you, which then gives them a chance to pass while their still-young, very promising but still-not-there-yet QB learns his trade. In other words, they're doing exactly what they want to do.

 

Football Outsiders link: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Now, let's look at how they would do if they let Gaither go. Oher is moved to LT, where he almost definitely continues to be a force as a run-blocker. I'll have more to say about his pass blocking in a moment. Replacing Oher at RT is Tony Moll, the backup there. Moll is a 5th rounder who went to college at Nevada. This'll be his fifth year. He's played mostly right guard, but to be precise, he's mostly been a backup. In four years, he has been in started 15 games and participated (special teams? or to give the starter a breather?) in 39 games. He's not a particularly good player, though he's a solid backup. And the Ravens are happily going to plug this guy in at RT? Are you kidding? So, who else would fill the RT slot? The draft pick that they get in the trade? So they take one of the absolute best run blocking units in the league and plug in an unproven RT to replace arguably the best RT in the league? In the Bizarro universe this may make sense, but not in this one. Not for a team that believes that they have a shot at the Super Bowl this year.

 

Now, opposite whoever they plug in at RT to not-replace Michael Oher, let's look at how Oher is likely to do at LT. Take a look at profootballfocus, the site which watches each game and grades each guy on performance. They even give separate score for run blocking, pass blocking, screen blocking and penalties. They are a highly respected website. Here's their summary of Michael Oher's performance last year:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4946

 

Overall, they list him as the 19th best tackle (they look at right and left tackles as one group) out of 77. But look closer, at the table at the bottom of the screen. He played 5 games at LT and 11 games at RT. They score average play as a zero, so you know that negative numbers show bad play and positive numbers show good play. In eleven games as an RT, he recieved a cumulative score of PLUS 13.6, an extremely good score. In five games as an LT however, his cumulative score was MINUS 9.1, and that is genuinely horrible, particularly in only five games. If you pro-rate those five games across a sixteen game season, Oher's score as a LEFT TACKLE would have been MINUS 29.12, and that would have put him in the rankings as the 76th best tackle in the league. OUT OF 77. The second-worst tackle in the league. On the other hand, if you prorate his 11 games at right tackle across a 16 game season, his score would have been PLUS 19.8, which would have placed him as the 3rd best tackle in the league out of 77.

 

 

I promised I'd get back to Oher's pass blocking abilities. In five games at LT, his pass blocking score was MINUS 3.9. In eleven games at RT? PLUS 8.4. He does pretty well against the guys he faces at RT, but against the hyper-athletic rushers he faced at LT, he simply couldn't get the job done. Pro-rate his five games at LT over a sixteen game season and you get MINUS 12.5 as a pass blocker. That would put him as the 69th best tackle out of 77, in other words, the 8th worst pass blocker in the league.

 

And you want to switch THAT GUY to LEFT TACKLE? Are you insane?

 

Perhaps if they were Cleveland or Oakland or ... I hate to say it , but with the way we have handled our OL the past five years or so, we fit with that group ... or Buffalo, they would do it. But the Ravens are a terrific organization and they don't do stupid things like this.

 

The Ravens don't want to trade Gaither, they want to keep him. If someone gives him a contract offer, the Ravens will match it.

 

Gaither is going nowhere.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Bills would be crazy not to be interested. But even if he is available (and I'm betting LaCanfora is simply wrong on this), he has one more year left on his contract, and he will want ... and get ... Jason Peters money. The Bills have shown themselves not to be willing to pay market value for an excellent LT.

 

 

Good solid post and it's hard to really argue with any of it. But for the sake of argument, here's reasons why the Ravens would trade JG:

 

1) The Ravens are very good at managing their cap. They just paid Boldin $7 million. Flacco, Ngata, and Rice will have their contracts up in the next few years. Looking ahead to the future, is it in the Ravens best interest to pay 2 tackles top money? I don't know if it is.

 

2) Oher is a rookie. Part of the reason teams passed on him was because he projected as more of a RT. However, the Ravens love him and view him as the LT of the future. It is much easier to find a RT than LT. Again thinking about the cap, it would make sense to get great value for Gaither, move Oher to LT, and draft a RT in this tackle heavy draft.

 

3) The value of getting a high 2nd for a former 5th round supplement draft guy is really great value. NFL teams, especially great drafting ones like the Ravens, really value draft picks. Get the most of the player before they become super expensive, get the best value for them, and reload your team in the draft.

 

4) It was a great post until your last point about Peters. The Bills paid big bucks to Walker and Dockery. They paid big money to Schobel and Evans. They pay people who go about their business right. If Peters didn't act like a child, have one of the worst seasons of any OL, and put the health of his teammates at risk, he would have gotten paid.

 

It blows my mind that people think it was a good idea to give Peters $10 million plus after what he pulled in 2008. He's a good, not elite LT, who has questions about his intelligence, conditioning, and ability to stay healthy.

 

Trading Peters is 100% fine. We just need to do a better job of replacing him. JG for a 2nd would be a ncie start and something the Ravens might be more willing to do than you think.

[sllib olaffub]

I've read a few articles suggesting what the draft might look like and where Gaither might go. Two scenerios come to mind - and in this I'm a bit envious of the Redskins: They draft Clausen with their 1, and get Gaither with their 2. They walk away from the first two rounds with a starter at QB and LT for perhaps another six years or more...and they've got the rest of the rounds for the rest of the positions.

Now, I see the Bills topping that Redskin offer with a swap of first round picks and and another pick for Gaither, and then using the low 1st on Tebow. Or, if they could pick up, say, Gaither, Cody or Dan Williams as NT, and then a Lefavour or Skelton or some other potential QB in a later round - walking away from the draft with a starting caliber LT and either QB or NT... I just don't think we can be as effective with those positions purely drafting.... because Gaither equates to a high first round talent.

[Wizard]

2nd and Whitner?????

 

If we gave them a 2nd and Whitner, the Ravens would also ask for our 1st round pick to off-set our dumping of Whitner.

[rafter]

Yeah, they're having trouble signing him.

 

Having siad that he's not available. People here think that because he was only offered a first-round tender, that's a sure-fire sign that the Ravens want to get rid of him. But if you look, how many guys with first-round tenders end up going to different teams in trades each year? One, maybe? Two? And you know who they are going to be, they're the ones who no longer fit into the system since the team is going to a bigger/smaller/3-4/4-3/zone-blocking system, or guys who have become a disturbance in the locker room ... It's guys we all know are going to go. The huge, gigantic majority of guys offered a first-round tender stay with their teams.

 

It's not usually a signal that someone is available, it's usually an obvious statement that the team doesn't want to pay the player the extra 750 K or so which they have to pay if they give a higher tender.

 

What everyone forgets is that

 

Let's compare the Ravens situation now to their situation if they let Gaither go. Right now, they have two terrific tackles, both of whom are terrific run blockers. The Ravens were 5th in the league last year at total running yards, and 4th in the league at YPC, with 4.7, which is just a great result. Football Outsiders stats also show them as the 4th best offensive line at run blocking in the league. Football Outsiders also shows that Oher is simply the best run-blocking RT in the league and Gaither is the 13th best run-blocking LT in the league. They are a run-first team, a team that forces you to defend the run by smashing the hell out of you, which then gives them a chance to pass while their still-young, very promising but still-not-there-yet QB learns his trade. In other words, they're doing exactly what they want to do.

 

Football Outsiders link: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Now, let's look at how they would do if they let Gaither go. Oher is moved to LT, where he almost definitely continues to be a force as a run-blocker. I'll have more to say about his pass blocking in a moment. Replacing Oher at RT is Tony Moll, the backup there. Moll is a 5th rounder who went to college at Nevada. This'll be his fifth year. He's played mostly right guard, but to be precise, he's mostly been a backup. In four years, he has been in started 15 games and participated (special teams? or to give the starter a breather?) in 39 games. He's not a particularly good player, though he's a solid backup. And the Ravens are happily going to plug this guy in at RT? Are you kidding? So, who else would fill the RT slot? The draft pick that they get in the trade? So they take one of the absolute best run blocking units in the league and plug in an unproven RT to replace arguably the best RT in the league? In the Bizarro universe this may make sense, but not in this one. Not for a team that believes that they have a shot at the Super Bowl this year.

 

Now, opposite whoever they plug in at RT to not-replace Michael Oher, let's look at how Oher is likely to do at LT. Take a look at profootballfocus, the site which watches each game and grades each guy on performance. They even give separate score for run blocking, pass blocking, screen blocking and penalties. They are a highly respected website. Here's their summary of Michael Oher's performance last year:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=4946

 

Overall, they list him as the 19th best tackle (they look at right and left tackles as one group) out of 77. But look closer, at the table at the bottom of the screen. He played 5 games at LT and 11 games at RT. They score average play as a zero, so you know that negative numbers show bad play and positive numbers show good play. In eleven games as an RT, he recieved a cumulative score of PLUS 13.6, an extremely good score. In five games as an LT however, his cumulative score was MINUS 9.1, and that is genuinely horrible, particularly in only five games. If you pro-rate those five games across a sixteen game season, Oher's score as a LEFT TACKLE would have been MINUS 29.12, and that would have put him in the rankings as the 76th best tackle in the league. OUT OF 77. The second-worst tackle in the league. On the other hand, if you prorate his 11 games at right tackle across a 16 game season, his score would have been PLUS 19.8, which would have placed him as the 3rd best tackle in the league out of 77.

 

 

I promised I'd get back to Oher's pass blocking abilities. In five games at LT, his pass blocking score was MINUS 3.9. In eleven games at RT? PLUS 8.4. He does pretty well against the guys he faces at RT, but against the hyper-athletic rushers he faced at LT, he simply couldn't get the job done. Pro-rate his five games at LT over a sixteen game season and you get MINUS 12.5 as a pass blocker. That would put him as the 69th best tackle out of 77, in other words, the 8th worst pass blocker in the league.

 

And you want to switch THAT GUY to LEFT TACKLE? Are you insane?

 

Perhaps if they were Cleveland or Oakland or ... I hate to say it , but with the way we have handled our OL the past five years or so, we fit with that group ... or Buffalo, they would do it. But the Ravens are a terrific organization and they don't do stupid things like this.

 

The Ravens don't want to trade Gaither, they want to keep him. If someone gives him a contract offer, the Ravens will match it.

 

Gaither is going nowhere.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Bills would be crazy not to be interested. But even if he is available (and I'm betting LaCanfora is simply wrong on this), he has one more year left on his contract, and he will want ... and get ... Jason Peters money. The Bills have shown themselves not to be willing to pay market value for an excellent LT.

 

Nice reply. Thanks.

 

I agree with you that LaCanfora is wrong here. I don't see the Raven's entertaining the idea of a 2nd round pick for a quality LT, and basically disrupt their entire offense in the process.

I also agree that any tendered offer would be likely matched by the ravens, this is most likely what they are waiting on. Let Gaither see what his market value is, then give him it.

[dailar]

I dont know where we get this about the ravens accepting a second. However if this is the case this could all work very well if we can trade back and thats the key. If we traded back to green bays spot that would give us an extra two second round picks and that changes everything. we may get Graham OLB there or Cody NT, then you have three second round picks, one for Gaither one for Tebow and one for an OLB/NT (whichever you dont pick up in the first round).

[JohnC]

Trade UP to get bradford, trade our 2nd for gaither and call it a day

 

Are you aware why Gaither is on the trading block? A report out of DC radio station reported that Harbaugh is not enamored with Gaither because he is lazy and doesn't like his lackadaisical attitude. This is the same player who got benched at the Univ of Md by the coach because his work ethic was less than stellar. The reason why he was available in the supplemental draft instead of the regular draft was that he didn't keep up with his accademics and football responsibilities.

 

The Bills need to smartly draft their own players and stop grabbing for the garbage other teams are trying to dispose of.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Dan Williams at 9 and Jared Gaither with our 2nd...sounds like the makings of a great draft day experience

 

 

How about combining the above with Virgil1528's thread concerning the rotoworld report... meaning we trade down with the teams interested in the Raiders spot pick up another number two, and lets get Williams at 9, Gaither for one of our 2d round picks and still get a 2d rounder.

 

 

...I know, I'm greedy!

 

[WVUFootball29]

Are you aware why Gaither is on the trading block? A report out of DC radio station reported that Harbaugh is not enamored with Gaither because he is lazy and doesn't like his lackadaisical attitude. This is the same player who got benched at the Univ of Md by the coach because his work ethic was less than stellar. The reason why he was available in the supplemental draft instead of the regular draft was that he didn't keep up with his accademics and football responsibilities.

 

The Bills need to smartly draft their own players and stop grabbing for the garbage other teams are trying to dispose of.

 

I wouldn't call picking up a starting left tackle dumpster diving compared to many of the other suggestions of players to go after. Gaither is lacking in the discipline category, part of the reason why he ended up in the supplemental draft to begin with. However, the kid can play at a high level in the NFL and at a key position this team is trying to fill.

 

One negative to getting Gaither is that if he signs his tender then is traded he's only under contract for a year and could move on. The bills would have to be damn sure that if they trade for him they can lock him up for a few seasons.

[Bring Back Kelly]

I doubt the Bills do this, since The guy wants huge money, but if you look at the prices for Left Tackles taken in the first round over the last couple of seasons, It's what we would have to pay a first round pick anyway. This guy is young and stacks up well against opposing defenses. He is a big reason for Ray Rice's success. I say make the deal. We need a cornerstone at LT. Not sure we can get a good one in Round 2 otherwise.

 

Here are some links:

 

Levi Brown:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...tory?id=2959237

 

Joe Thomas

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950674

[JohnC]

I wouldn't call picking up a starting left tackle dumpster diving compared to many of the other suggestions of players to go after. Gaither is lacking in the discipline category, part of the reason why he ended up in the supplemental draft to begin with. However, the kid can play at a high level in the NFL and at a key position this team is trying to fill.

 

One negative to getting Gaither is that if he signs his tender then is traded he's only under contract for a year and could move on. The bills would have to be damn sure that if they trade for him they can lock him up for a few seasons.

 

If he is as good as many people are portraying him to be why is he being dangled? Most teams have little interest in seeing what they can get in trade proposals for a young anchor tackle, whether it is on the right side or left. Sometimes good tackles who are very worn are traded when the front office feels that the player is on his downside. That is not the case here.

 

Gaither has a history of being lazy. He exhibited that negative trait in college and the pros. Why do you think he would change, especially if a lucrative deal is made for him? No one is denying the point that he is capable of playing at a high level. His ability has never been in question. His work ethic and maturity have always been issues with him.

 

As I stated before, it is time that the Bills draft their own talent and not make expensive deals (draft picks) for players other teams don't want.

[WVUFootball29]

If he is as good as many people are portraying him to be why is he being dangled? Most teams have little interest in seeing what they can get in trade proposals for a young anchor tackle, whether it is on the right side or left. Sometimes good tackles who are very worn are traded when the front office feels that the player is on his downside. That is not the case here.

 

Gaither has a history of being lazy. He exhibited that negative trait in college and the pros. Why do you think he would change, especially if a lucrative deal is made for him? No one is denying the point that he is capable of playing at a high level. His ability has never been in question. His work ethic and maturity have always been issues with him.

 

As I stated before, it is time that the Bills draft their own talent and not make expensive deals (draft picks) for players other teams don't want.

 

He's being dangled because they have options to replace him already on the roster and Harbaugh isn't a fan of him. Trading a 2nd round pick away isn't that expensive compared to what we dropped for Losman and McCargo. the question is can we sign the guy beyond the 1 season? If we can, he's worth dropping a 2nd rounder. If an agreement on an extension can't be reached, then no it would be a bad trade.

 

I know Gaither is lazy, that was the whole reason I didn't want Buffalo to grab him in the supplement draft back when. I saw him play plenty in college and I didn't think he had the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. He proved me wrong by becoming one of the better LTs in the league right now. The improvement would be night and day comparing Bell to Gaither.

 

Now looking at the draft, if one of the top tackles happens to drop to 9, you take him since you know you're going to get a longer deal with them and pick up your NT later. However, if Williams, Okung, and Bulaga are gone, I don't see a tackle remaining in the draft that is going to come in and make an impact on the 2010 roster like Gaither would, you grab another valued pick to fill a hole and trade for JG. Again only making the trade when you know you'll have a good shot at resigning or extending his contract.

[Astrobot]

Are you aware why Gaither is on the trading block? A report out of DC radio station reported that Harbaugh is not enamored with Gaither because he is lazy and doesn't like his lackadaisical attitude. This is the same player who got benched at the Univ of Md by the coach because his work ethic was less than stellar. The reason why he was available in the supplemental draft instead of the regular draft was that he didn't keep up with his accademics and football responsibilities.

 

The Bills need to smartly draft their own players and stop grabbing for the garbage other teams are trying to dispose of.

Quoth a Ravens' fan on one of their boards:

"Demises of NFL franchises either start with the loss of a QB or LT. I'm a Ravens fan and I am scared out of my mind at even trading him for a top 16 pick."

[JohnC]

He's being dangled because they have options to replace him already on the roster and Harbaugh isn't a fan of him. Trading a 2nd round pick away isn't that expensive compared to what we dropped for Losman and McCargo. the question is can we sign the guy beyond the 1 season? If we can, he's worth dropping a 2nd rounder. If an agreement on an extension can't be reached, then no it would be a bad trade.

 

I know Gaither is lazy, that was the whole reason I didn't want Buffalo to grab him in the supplement draft back when. I saw him play plenty in college and I didn't think he had the necessary tools to make it in the NFL. He proved me wrong by becoming one of the better LTs in the league right now. The improvement would be night and day comparing Bell to Gaither.

 

Now looking at the draft, if one of the top tackles happens to drop to 9, you take him since you know you're going to get a longer deal with them and pick up your NT later. However, if Williams, Okung, and Bulaga are gone, I don't see a tackle remaining in the draft that is going to come in and make an impact on the 2010 roster like Gaither would, you grab another valued pick to fill a hole and trade for JG. Again only making the trade when you know you'll have a good shot at resigning or extending his contract.

 

Harbaugh isn't a fan of him (as you put it) because he is lazy. His work habits are very deficient. People are who they are. Why would you pursue a person who has a history going back to college of being an underachiever? Harbaugh has a very close view of his work habits. Needless to say, he is not enamored with him as a person or player. I respect Harbaugh for wanting to establish a certain team culture. This talented Lt doesn't fit in with the environment the tough minded coach is trying to establish.

 

Comparing any player favorabley to Demetrius Bell or Kirk Chambers is not a compliment. This third rate franchise should be ashamed of itself for putting those ill equipped players on the field.

 

You brought up the McCargo and Losman draft selections. They were mistakes because the fools who were drafting REACHED to fill needs. If the talent isn't there to meet a particular need then the smart way to do business is to take a more highly rated player, even if it doesn't fill a particular need. With the Bills that issue isn't a problem because there isn't a position other than DBs where the Bills don't have a need.

 

The best approach the Bills should take in rebuilding this bumbling franchise is through the draft. Giving up valuable high picks for players that aren't even attractive to their current teams is not the way to go.

[JohnC]

Quoth a Ravens' fan on one of their boards:

"Demises of NFL franchises either start with the loss of a QB or LT. I'm a Ravens fan and I am scared out of my mind at even trading him for a top 16 pick."

 

Quoting a blogger to support a position is not a very convincing argument. We have people on this board who want to draft Dan Lefevour with our first pick. The best part of being a blogger is that you can be outlandish and still get strong support. (I include myself in this blogger population. So my credibility is as questionable as anyone else's.)

[Thoner7]

Yes Gaither would be well worth the pick...but it says a 2nd round pick gets the conversation started...how much more would they want?...and is he worth two picks in this deep draft?...for us I say yeah...but then we're definitely looking at question marks on the defense...so...we'll see...but I would definitely be jumping for joy to get Gaither in a Bills uni

 

Swap firsts. Swap seconds also if need be. Avoid loosing picks in this draft at all cost. I guess 5th rounders on dont have much value, but keeping at least 3 picks in the first three rounds is very crucial IMO.