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Not even as awesome as Nate Peterman! I am familiar with the offseason championship--is there a Pre Season HOF?

Nate Peterman Kelvin Benjamin Mike Williams Aaron Maybin HC: Melvin Fowler (that guy was an a hole)

'Goldilocks'. 🤨 Had it been Allen throwing, it would have been too hard. If Peterman, Nate would have either thrown it to a Brown, or held onto it and ran out the clock. 🙁

My surprise one would be John Butler. He took a Super Bowl roster and led it to it's demise. Add Tom Donahoe for that matter. Players would be Nate Peterman, Aaron Maybin, and Vontae Davis. Coaches would be all the coaches that quit on us as we got good, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox and Doug Marrone.

The Chargers with Philip Rivers were once in a playoff game with the Jets where the Chargers kicker Nate kaeding missed 3 kicks in that same playoff game. The Chargers were hugely favored in that playoff game and lost because of the kicker. It looks like Josh's career is following the same trajectory as Philip Rivers at this point. I'm very sorry.

I’m probably forgetting some, but I’ll go with Colin Brown, Chris Watson, Mike Tolbert and Nate Hackett

Because of this, did Nate Hackett not bother to show up either?

When he did the quarterback draft with Mina Kimes, Nate Tice made a comment about some of Josh Allen's turnovers make him crazy for a few seconds and he thinks "why would you even attempt that throw," but then when he thinks about it he realizes, "Oh yeah, I've seen him complete that pass like six times in a row." (Btw, both he and Kimes said they had Allen as the clear number 2 QB in the league.) So, part of the issue is what other sports might call usage rate. Allen is involved in so many of the plays that, of course, he is going to have more turnovers. However, the other issue is that he attempts throws nobody else should because he completes passes nobody else can on the regular.

There really shouldn't be any confusion as to why the guy who insisted Nate Peterman was a starting NFL quarterback doesn't get a lot of credit for developing Allen

Announced today. Some of you hardcore football fans might be able to shed light on some of these players. I know Puca Nacua's brother, Kai was named all-league safety and that the placekicker Jake Bates made 3 FGs of over 60 yards. I wonder how many of these guys end up signing with an NFL team near you. 2024 All-UFL Team Offense Quarterback - Adrian Martinez, Birmingham Stallions Running Back - Jacob Saylors, St. Louis Battlehawks Wide Receiver - Hakeem Butler, St. Louis Battlehawks; Daewood Davis, Memphis Showboats; Marcus Simms, Michigan Panthers Tight End - Jace Sternberger, Birmingham Stallions Offensive Tackle - Jaryd Jones-Smith, St. Louis Battlehawks; Bobby Evans, Arlington Renegades Offensive Guard - Zack Johnson, Birmingham Stallions; Kohl Levao, San Antonio Brahmas Center - Mike Panasiuk, St. Louis Battlehawks Defense Defensive Line - Carlos Davis, Birmingham Stallions; Daniel Wise, Michigan Panthers Edge/Outside Linebacker - Chris Odom, Houston Roughnecks; Breeland Speaks, Michigan Panthers Inside Linebacker - Tavante Beckett, San Antonio Brahmas; Willie Harvey, St. Louis Battlehawks Cornerback - Deandre Baker, D.C. Defenders; Nate Brooks, Michigan Panthers; Ajene Harris, Arlington Renegades Safety - Kai Nacua, Michigan Panthers; A.J. Thomas, Birmingham Stallions Special Teams Kicker - Jake Bates, Michigan Panthers Punter - Marquette King, Arlington Renegades Long Snapper - Jordan Ober, Michigan Panthers Return Specialist - Chris Rowland, D.C. Defenders

I'm voting keeper. He kind of reminds me of Nate Clements in a way. Knox has had some brilliant truck and run highlights that keep you thinking, 'hang on, this guy can be something special', but the overall body of work says, 'yeah, pretty good, but someone else could probably take that production over for us, and probably cheaper.' Clements really was a good player, maybe on an average snap a bit better than Knox, but his entire career's worth of paychecks was mostly based on one (***** Awesome!!) hit. Beyond that he was a pretty good corner any championship level team could have on their roster, but he was not a catalyst. Knox makes more 'Wow' plays, but lacks the consistency to be relied on as a cog in a championship team, but he still has a definite chance to be a top-notch contributor on any given play, and despite the contract, his relative financial hit vs. what the 49ers paid Clements is pretty affordable. Clements at 6 years in was the more valuable player, but not by a lot, so I'm cool with giving Knox more time to develop his stuff. He's shown too much to just write off. ... I know, potential is maddening

I was 8 years old and my Dad took me to Bills hosting the Raiders in Primetime in 1990. Think a Nate Odomes pick 6 was one of the key plays of the game and win. The Bills of course rattled off a ton of other exciting wins that season, only to finish with the heartbreaking FG miss by Norwood. Combine that with three more consecutive SB losses and I’ve been obsessed with eventually winning a SB since.

I see it differently. Aaron Rodgers is one of the greatest QBs ever to play the game. His yards per attempt is 7.7 vs. 7.4 for Tom Brady. Rodgers' INT percentage is 1.4, compared to 1.8 for Brady. There are areas where Brady's numbers are better than Rodgers, such as career passing yards and number of Super Bowl rings. But there's no denying that Rodgers is a great player. He comes across well in his press conferences. Like a laid back regular guy, who sometimes demonstrates a good sense of humor. If you wanted to point out negatives about him, the most obvious is that he plays for a division rival. He's exerted too much influence over coaching (Nate Hackett) and personnel decisions. But you look at a lot of other guys in the NFL, and they're being arrested or sued for cruelty to dogs, or breaking boys' legs, or beating up women, or grinding on flight attendants without consent. If injuries must happen, I'd rather they happen to guys like those, as opposed to someone like Rodgers.

This brings back so many bad memories. There's too many candidates from the Gregg and Dickball eras. I can't even go there. I'll go with a couple of nice fits of anger instead of a player who regularly made me mad. Nate Clements, knock the ball down. Bryce Brown, hang on to the ball. Nathan Hackett, don't throw the ball at the goal line early in the set of downs with Jeff Tuel. EJ Manuel, hit Stevie Johnson somewhere other than the shins on third down against New England.

Partying at the airport the night we broke the drought. I skipped a NYE party with my then-girlfriend (now wife) to be there. We had so much fun, we all took pictures with the players driving by (my buddy got a pic with Shady McCoy, I got one with Nate Peterman...so it goes). A magical night.

I used to post these little poems about him, in the style of the old Burma Shave ads they used to put along the side of Old Rte 66, back in the fifties. If you don't know what they are, you can google them. They were really famous 75 years ago. Here's another one: You can’t overstate The Hate for Late Nate I rue the day he was born A waste of a day and money thrown away He sticks in my head like a thorn. Peterman

Both of these are easy for me. Player: Late Nate Peterman. I've lived in Los Angeles since '91, so getting to see a Bills game live is a cherished experience. I was at that game against the Chargers in 2017. It was a beautiful day, in a wonderfully intimate 24,000-seat Stubhub Arena. Fourteen passing attempts, six completions, five interceptions. All in the first half. And let me tell you, friends-- those tickets were ***** expensive. Perhaps, I could have just moved on, and not held on to my bitterness all these years. But, the salt in the wound was... the Bills kept him on the roster. They kept him on the roster the following season! He has never done anything but stunk up the field whenever he takes a snap, but that muther ***** is still in the league!!! (Currently on the NO Saints.) Coach: Rex Ryan. I was sickened when they hired that fat tub of *****. I was afraid he was going to turn the Bills-- a team that was enduring the longest playoff drought in the league-- into even more of a laughing stock. And he did. His tenure was a weekly crap show of embarrassment. It was some of the most press coverage the Bills have ever received, and for all the wrong reasons. Without exaggeration, he took a top three ranked defense, and with one starting personnel change, put them into the bottom three. After the Jet's released IK Enemkpali for breaking Gino Smith's jaw in the Jet's locker room shower, Ryan promptly signed him, and made him a captain for the Jets game, so he could be out in middle of the field, avoiding eye contact with Smith, for the coin toss. That classless move is everything one needs to know about that man's integrity.

Coach: Steve Fairchild. Former OC in 2006-2007. Absolutely zero point in his whole offense. Zero game awareness. He is the only coach that could make Nate Hackett look like a Andy Reid out there. Just a terrible OC. Player: Jerry Hughes. Like the guy. Disliked the penalties (some deserved some questionable) that he seemed to attract. And strongly disliked the whole "pressures are as good as sacks" argument that would spring up every year.

Our very own Nathan "Late Nate" Peterman was one of the real innovators of the arm punt, or "mini punt," as J.T. O'Sullivan describes it.

Back in the '90s and 2000s, it was common for the Bills to use a first round pick on a CB. He'd spend five or (Nate Clements) six years with the team, then leave in free agency. Another first round pick would be used on his replacement. The RB position was similar, except the duration of RBs was often even shorter than for CBs. There was a period of 40 years, during which the Bills used 1/4 of their first picks of the draft on DBs, and another 1/4 on RBs. Leaving only 50% for everything else. Needless to say, the Bills lost more games than they won during those 40 years. When I evaluate the success of a particular draft pick, I look at the quality of the player. But I also look at the duration of play he provided for the team which drafted him. Both Cordy Glenn and Travis Henry were drafted in the second round. Glenn was with the team for far longer than Travis Henry, which is one of several reasons why Glenn was a much more successful use of a 2nd round pick. Edmunds had great athleticism. For certain situations or in certain games he played at a high level. But, his football instincts were poor, and he was bad at shedding blocks. Someone posted a stat that, during his time with the Bills, he was blitzed 70 times or so (I forget the exact number). That resulted in zero pressures. If you take into account both the good and bad parts of his game, he was not worth anything close to the monster contract he got. At least not to me. I would never want to use a first round pick on an off-the-ball linebacker whose game had as many weaknesses as Edmunds' did, and who was only going to be with the team for five years. Harrison Phillips is a very solid player. But, like you said, a very solid player for the Vikings. Just as Wyatt Teller is an excellent player for the Cleveland Browns. I give Beane a lot of credit for drafting both those players in the first place. But he gets anti-credit for failing to keep them. Either player would be a real benefit to the Bills, if added right now. In terms of that draft, I give Beane the most credit for taking Josh Allen (obviously), and the second-most for Taron Johnson. Johnson may not be as good a player as a guy like Wyatt Teller, but at least he's still with the team.

(Sorry... this may or may not belong in Off the Wall) Is it an age thing? I don't think I can listen to anything but podcasts at this point. When I listen to music, it's just music I know that I create as Playlists on Pandora. My non-football podcasts are now down to Throughline and Freakanomics. Most of my podcasts are Bills/NFL related, though. Bruce Nolan and The Bruce Exclusive was my absolute favorite Bills podcast... but like right before the draft Buffalo Rumblings went kaput and he lost his platform. Even when he was on, it was only once a week for less than an hour... so not remotely time consuming. Which means I guess I would say Joe Marino's Locked on Bills is my favorite now. I have my gripes... primarily I just think he’s incredibly Robotic and lacks any real personality (unlike Bruce Nolan), but he tries to pretend like he has a lot of personality and he 100% knows his football with a background in scouting. He also has a daily podcast and comes up with pretty good ideas for them every day (the opposite of this would be Pat Moran's Talking Buffalo podcast, which just has a lot of useless, unentertaining time) and so I can say I legitimately listen to pretty much every episode. As for non-football podcasts, The Athletic Football Show with Robert Mayes as host (Nate Tice left just a couple weeks ago) is 100% by far the best sports (and maybe any???) podcast I've listened to. It airs 3 or 4 days a week and every show is informative and entertaining, even if it's non-Bills related. I just listened to a 90 minute podcast about the lingering questions of the NFC East and made it from beginning to end without the desire to turn it off. Mayes is a fun, knowledgeable, funny host who brings good guests on. I miss Tice, but the show hasn't missed a beat. There's also an Athletic Football show GM podcast hosted by Mike Sando featuring Randy Mueller. It's not as good but I listen to it and find it interesting and sometimes informative. Sando does a great job but Mueller has some bizarre takes sometimes... almost like he stopped watching football 15-20 years ago. A very close 2nd for the non-football podcast to listen to is The Mina Kimes show (featuring Lenny). She's an awesome host. Everything I said about Mayes applies to her. I understand there may be some bias one way or another since she's on TV, but she's really created an excellent listen for all the reasons The Athletic Football Show is. Only problem is that her's is only once or twice a week. How about you guys?

Statistical data are useless unless you know how to interpret them. During Allen's first year, he had arguably the worst OL in franchise history. Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes were the worst pair of starting WRs I've ever seen, on any NFL team. Zay Jones wasn't much better. During the offseason, the starter's reps had been given to Nate Peterman, not Josh Allen. Anything you could possibly think of to set a QB up to fail, the Bills did to Allen. What effect do you think all that had on Allen's rookie stats? When I watched Manuel's college highlight reel, there was nothing special there. The throws he made were throws I'd expect of any average college QB. Allen's college highlight reel was cut from an entirely different cloth. Manuel was the same guy in the NFL as he was in college. He was the same guy in year 4 or 5 of his NFL career as he'd been as a rookie.

I don’t buy much into the development myth. Who gets the credit for Allen in that narrative? Daboll? Because Daboll’s qb development success stories seem pretty much limited to Allen. having said that, Nate Hacket seems awful

When my Broncos loving friends hired Nate Hackett, I tried to warn them. They accused me of sour grapes and touted his time working with Rodgers. When the Jets hired Hackett, I tried to warn Jets fans on their message board. They accused me of sour grapes and of having an agenda because I'm a Bills fan, and touted his time working with Rodgers. I saw all I needed to see when he was OC for the Bills. I admit that OCs can grow and change and get better in time, but Hackett hasn't. He simply can't Hackett in this league.

Here is what seems to be the most accepted formula. Google it and see for yourself how often this formula comes up. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/5/8/5683486/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart This chart doesn't list the value of the following year's picks but it does list the Bills #10 at 1,300 for a return of 786 (for picks 27 and 91). Even if the 2018 pick closed the gap somewhat, does the fact that the Bills were in desperate need for a quarterback escape you? The following is the 2017 Bills roster. It lists 3 QBs: 1) Tyrod Taylor 2) Nate Peterman 3) Joe Webb https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2017_roster.htm Does this appear to you to be a team that needed a cornerback more than a quarterback? If so, please help me understand your conclusion. Do ya think that KC Fans dislike ther fact that McDermott handed them a certain HOF QB, one of the best ever? Really, try to be serious. You may see those of us who think this was an almost indescribably stupid deal as being "nonsensical. Frankly I find this comment to be rude and presumptous but that's just me. Am I happy with Josh? Very happy!!!! We are extremely lucky that he fell to us, unless of course you think that McDermott planned this at the time of the trade. In any case, welcome to TSW.