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I say we trade #25, Edmunds and a 3rd to Houston at 13 and take Lloyd.. I can dream.

If anyone believed Allen would be this good he'd have went #1 overall......right? Bills should have sold the farm to get to #1.......what were they thinking? And the fact is that NONE of the picks acquired in the Patrick Mahomes deal were used to get Josh Allen. A team that has never won a SB got Tre White and fan favorite Tremaine Edmunds in exchange for a lock future HOF SB winning QB. What's revisionist is overselling the Lamonica trade. Lamonica was awful in Buffalo..........almost bad enough to be released outright.........and there were rumors about things he did that fractured the locker room. It turned out to be a GREAT trade for Oakland but I've seen people say it changed the trajectory of the two organizations for a decade and that is INSANE. Lamonica had 3 great seasons and then 3 good ones in Oakland and he was DONE............and Oakland was a rising power and making TONS of good, shrewd decisions because at the time, their owner Al Davis was a football man on top of his game and all he cared about was WINNING. Contrast that with......ahem.......Ralph. The Bills organization was circling the drain..........Lamonica wasn't going to carry that team thru the years of incompetence that were to come...........it simply wasn't a QB driven league where you could expect that then.

Edmunds needs to make a sex tape and catapult himself into super star level.

Agreed- much more so than Edmunds imo 👍

Josh was starting because of injury. They weren't going to play him early at all till injury forced them to. Bradberry and Worley were starting because there was nobody else. Early, they had some problems. Oliver - and you did mention this but dismissed it a bit - only played 54% of snaps his first year. Singletary started Week one, and next was Week eight. He played very little the first few weeks. Knox didn't start till Week 4. Taron Johnson started two games his rookie year and was inactive twice (he was injured the last three games, which is worth mentioning). Yeah, he is a nickel, but once he wasn't a rookie anymore he started seven games out of 12 active, 11 games and 15 games. Joe is quite right. Edmunds really is the exception. Tre also. Started from minute one. Both were rookies at the start of the rebuild, though. The roster's a lot sounder now. It makes plenty of sense to go elsewhere than corner. Of course, it would also make sense to go corner, but they shouldn't and doubtless don't feel they have to go that way. If Booth or McDuffie are still there, I'd guess they would go that way. But if they're not, or if someone like Jameson Williams falls, I wouldn't be even slightly surprised to see them go another direction.

They do have money decisions coming on defense. The only preumptive starters in 2022 that haven't been paid on D are Greg Rousseau (rookie deal), Dane Jackson (rookie deal), Ed Oliver (rookie deal). I don't include Tremaine because while he doesn't have a new deal if he plays on the 5th year option as looks likely that is akin to being paid for the purposes of the 2022 season. On the flip side on offense - Spencer Brown (rookie deal), Dawson Knox (rookie deal), Devin Singletary (rookie deal), Gabe Davis (rookie deal) and Jameson Crowder (vet 1 year $2m deal) are positions filled by guys who in no sense have been paid. As Josh's bigger numbers hit they are not going to be able to carry 13 paid starters at other spots, and the simple math suggests the savings need to come on defense. And that is before they have paid Ed Oliver which they are almost certainly going to try and do if he plays as he did in 2021 again. Whether it is not retaining Edmunds, not retaining Poyer, cutting Milano, cutting Taron Johnson, cutting Micah Hyde.... there are multiple options for them they are not in a bad cap spot overall but they are going to have get comfortable weaning themselves off a starting defense with 8 well paid vets on it.

Its not completely unrelated, because people are all over this board pleading and arguing to take a WR or a RB at pick 25. People are on this board saying the will flip out if we take a CB round 1. So this isnt about this make believe draft, its about the people clamoring for offense, even back to back picks, who are many are literally the same people who whined for 2 years about Levi, our defense, wanted McD and Beane fired in both 2020 and 2021 every time our defense came up short. Who want Edmunds traded. Who want Poyer traded...etc etc. Who started thread after thread about the end of the KC game. So, I am just saying, dont sit here all off season and plead (not saying you, generalized statement) about drafting offense and then spend the season whining about the defense again like they did last year.

I know Breece Hall is the correct answer here but I don’t think there’s a shot he lass til 57 in the real draft. More realistically I would freaking love to get Chenal as Edmunds replacement in 2023. Straight up beast against the run and as a blitzer with the athleticism needed to develop into a stud in coverage as well. Took on and whooped the best center in college football on back to back plays.

Leo Chenal will be an All-Pro linebacker in this league. Incredibly gifted physically and athletically. He scored an unofficial 9.99 RAS at the Combine out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 4 out of 2188 LB from 1987 to 2022. He literally blows up offensive lineman, running backs and QB's. Chenal is everything we hoped Edmunds would grow into.

Harris and Leal are very good players. I like Leal quite a bit but voted for Harris in case @BADOLBILZ is right and we dump Edmunds at some point.

Here is my take on the Bills' position groups going into the draft and whether or not we can roster players at those positions. QB: 100% set. RB/FB: Room to draft a stud RB. If not, Singletary, Johnson, and Moss will be fine. TE: Arguably room to draft two and stash one as there are no TEs signed for next year. WR: Room for a backup/future starter, but how much will he realistically play with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, and McKenzie getting all the reps AND the Bills likely using more two-TE sets? Also room for depth. OL: 100% set. Can't roster anyone without cutting valuable depth. P: Need to draft one. K: 100% set. LS: 100% set. DE: 100% set. DT: 100% set. LB: 100% set, unless you want to move on from Edmunds next year (even if so, you can worry about that next year). CB: Glaring need for one, if not two, outside corners. S: 100% set, unless you want to move on from Poyer. So if I'm the Bills, I put together a draft that looks something like this:

As the OP of this thread, I did believe that if the Bills drafted Lloyd they should trade Edmunds immediately....however as this thread has gone on I have been persuaded by the many people who have made the "draft Lloyd, but keep Edmunds for one more year" argument. It actually makes more sense because of the fact that McD doesn't like to rely on rookies right away.....this would give Lloyd time to get up to speed before being thrown into the starting lineup. The Bills could even rotate in Lloyd for both Edmunds and Milano to keep them both fresh for the long season. Also, it is more than likely that Edmunds and Milano will miss a game or two due to injury(it happened last year and the year before) AJ Klien would fill in the last two years in this situation, but he's gone, so a guy like Lloyd would come in handy for that kind of role this year, then become the full time starter the following season when they let Edmunds walk as a FA.

I haven’t read the entire thread. But it seems like the gist of it is if we were able to get Lloyd, we get rid of Edmunds. But in the case of the unlikely scenario that he is there a 25, why not take Lloyd and keep Edmunds for at least next season? As I understand it, Lloyd can play any of the linebacker positions. I know we usually play a 4-2-5 defense against most teams. But imagine the three linebacker set we would have with Lloyd when we went in that direction. He would also be great insurance against injury to one of the other two next season. Then, if they want to let go of Tremaine after next season, Lloyd will have a season under his belt to take over in the middle.

Somebody was talking about those two rookie corners they drafted that year after Norman left. Bradberry, Worley and Sanchez. Bradberry and Worley were starting corners right off the bat. I think Joe B.'s entire article is just semantics and a smokescreen. They said the same thing about Josh and he was starting week 2. Tre started right away. Ed Oliver started right away (I get that the DL rotates). Devin Singletary and Dawson Knox started right away. Dion Dawkins started after a couple of games. Zay Jones started right away. Taron Johnson was the nickel right away. Tremaine Edmunds started right away at 20 years old. Joe B. is wrong here. It is a case by case basis. Yeah maybe they sign a vet at some point, but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my mind to go anywhere but corner in the first. It's a need and there are some really good ones. If the good ones are gone, then you pivot. Don't force it.

What about Tremaine? Have we discussed Edmunds yet? He’s really good, no?

I’m torn because even though I like Lloyd and think Edmunds is our weakest starter therefore want no part of any extension 1) I don’t value the position very much to use that high of a pick on and… 2) I like some players who could be had later (Beavers, Anderson, Rose) how is he against the pass? His highlights were great but mostly run stops. Also, is Edmunds the Ristolainen of the Bills? Trade him while he’s still young!

When I rewatch the games I try to pay attention to edmunds when he blitz’s. From my experience, he has zero pass rush moves, bend and only tends to get pressure when he gets the step on his man or sneaks in behind a stunt. I think he’s the worst guy to have get after the QB. I think he’s best when using his size/length as a possible deterrent in the pass game, even if he doesn’t deter the best QBs. Maybe he’s working on some pass rush moves this offseason…..because he has zilch in that dept imo. Just size, speed and length.

Yeah there are definitely similarities in their game. Some scouting people like him more. Smith plays with way more power and plays downhill. He is not nearly as raw as Maine was coming out. I have no problem with the process by which they identified Edmunds as the type of backer they want. They wanted a fast, long powerful backer with crazy upside. Hasn’t quite worked out with Maine 100%, and I like him a lot. Just not sure you pay him. Taking Smith pushes the reset button on the position, gets a very similar prospect with what I think is a higher upside on a rookie contract. I like Troy Andersen. I know people like Andersen, but he is very raw imo. I like Leo Chenal a lot but he doesn’t have that length they seem to want. But Smith is the closest thing to type of linebacker they seem to want, and he was coached the last three years by McDermott guy Brent Pry. They met with him at the combine, were at his pro day, and now working him out. It makes sense to me.

Points from the article: - Bills haven't prioritized CB2 in the draft or with anything but short term UFA deals under McDermott. - "At the NFL owners’ meetings, McDermott made it a point to start the conversation with White when asked about the need at cornerback and said White is “doing well.” The logical deduction is that their star cornerback is still at the top of their minds when thinking about the position, which likely can be seen as optimistic for the season." - If White indeed is on schedule he should miss no more than 1 month........in a long season.........and they played well for more than a month without him down the stretch in 2021. - "Since McDermott has become the head coach, the Bills have hesitated to put a complete starter’s workload on a young player, regardless of how early he was drafted........The only exceptions to the rookie rule have been White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds, though they all started because the Bills would have been utterly non-competitive without them in the lineup." Drafting a CB at #25 would be a move for a full time starter. - "The in-house development is another important piece to the cornerback puzzle. Perhaps more than any other position, the Bills have a history of developing their cornerbacks to reach their potential." Points out that even Cam Lewis has been a useful depth piece and that they really like McCloud and Griffin. - "But taking (a CB) to take one because of a 2022 need is how teams can get in trouble. The Bills usually swing for the fences with their first-round pick, too, opting for something that isn’t on their roster rather than just settling on a need or for more of a finished product." - "They can find an above-average-to-good starter in the second, third or fourth rounds and add value to their defense without spending their top resource on a position in which they haven’t made a worthwhile investment in more than five years. Players such as Kyler Gordon (Washington), Cam Taylor-Britt (Nebraska), Joshua Williams (Fayetteville State), Damarri Mathis (Pittsburgh), Zyon McCollum (Sam Houston State), Akayleb Evans (Missouri) and Martin Emerson (Mississippi State) all satisfy the size and run-defending requirements they generally covet and can likely be had outside of the first round." - "All the historical context, rookie dealings and 2022 factors bring us to this point. Will the Bills take one with their first-round pick? Maybe, if the value is right and they think that player can become a star. But is it an absolute lock based on the above factors? Not even close."

Seems like dollar store Edmunds to me He’s not the same player but has the same weaknesses

1- 👍🏻 2- 👍🏻 3- I think this is debatable. It all depends on how they truly feel about Edmunds. We don’t know how they feel about him and we won’t know how they feel about him until he gets paid. Til that happens, for all we know, they are looking to trade him and they could be in love with another prospect in the draft. Not that I think that’s the case, but if someone wants him and offers up a favorable trade, I could see it happening. I just don’t believe a coach or GM would say anything disparaging about someone like Edmunds. So just because we aren’t hearing it, doesn’t mean it’s not being discussed behind closed doors. It’s not for our ears. If there are hundreds or thousands of Bills fans that aren’t overly impressed with Edmunds, I don’t see why the FO couldn’t feel the same. It’s possible. It’s just not going to be discussed by this FO. 4- 💯 - no offense taken at all. Lots of respect for ya and I understand the context of the conversation.

A couple things... 1. My whole point is that most of Edmunds' critics aren't taking the proper context into account. 2. I didn't think I was really criticizing anyone too harshly, just throwing out my perspective that's come from college coaching, working with scouts/GMs/coaches and other front-office types, and generally being around the game for a long time. 3. I think people are making WAY too big of a deal of his contract beyond this year. That's how middling teams operate. We're arguably THE favorites to win the super bowl, we need to act like it (and downgrading our most important defensive position because "future" isn't that. 4. Just trying to have conversation. These are the topics that I enjoy the most, so for me, this has been a fun conversation. Not trying to put anyone on blast or call anyone idiots, just trying to add to the discussion and understanding to folks on the board. I hope you haven't taken offense to my comments, certainly wasn't my point...

I think there are a lot of folks looking at all the impending 2023 free agents and thinking that the Bills gotta' draft their replacements pronto! In reality we are talking about: MLB (Edmunds) Safety (Poyer) TE (Knox) RB (Singletary) You could scarcely pick 4 easier positions to fill in an offseason. They could throw some day 3 picks and a couple UDFA's at those positions in this draft.........and then still be able to come back next offseason and have another shot to find cheap replacements in UFA or in the draft if the 2022 crop doesn't look promising and if some or all of the established starters aren't re-signed. The process on draft day should remain the same..........early picks on premium positions.

He’ll be 24 when the season starts. 29 at the end of his 1st contract. Probably an immediate starter and impact LB day 1 but he’s the same age as Edmunds.

I don't disagree with any of this. My perspective just comes down to replicable roles and production. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hyde and Poyer went from fringy depth guys (neither who played a full-time S role before coming here) and turned into stars. They're kind of the opposite on my take on Edmunds, I guess. While they're fantastic players, I think our staff views them as more replaceable and in less critical roles. Put another way, if you asked McBeane who they felt they could find better 1:1 replacements for, I think they'd say the safeties over Edmunds. And on Dawkins, I just find him to be exceedingly meh. Has some good moments, but for what we're paying I don't think he's anything exceptional. I've mentioned in the "Bills might trade a veteran to move up" thread, that he'd be the guy I'd look at using + 25 to move up and get one of the top rookies as a method of saving long-term. I think he's very replaceable.