folz

There is no question in my mind that that Steelers/Seattle Super Bowl was severely nudged, if not outwardly rigged. I'm a Bills fan through and through, but I also really liked the Steelers teams of the 1970s when I was a kid. So, I had a soft spot for Pittsburgh and was actually rooting for them in Super Bowl XL. But, the refs literally took two TDs away from Seattle, both on really bad calls. It was pretty obvious to most people at that time (except for Steelers fans) that the NFL marketing department had already written the story they wanted to tell of Bettis riding off into the sunset, Cowher getting his ring, and the storied Steelers franchise getting their 5th Lombardi. And they obviously didn't want to change the script. It was the first (but unfortunately not the last) time that I actually started to question the integrity of the game. But it is still probably the most egregious example. And I agree that Coryell should have been in the Hall long ago. I'm not saying that Cowher or Johnson are not worthy (although I do hate me some Jimmy Johnson), but Coryell should have gone in before either of them. And I also think Flores should get in. Two Super Bowl wins as a head coach, one as a player, one as an assistant is a pretty good resume on its own. But it is surprising to me that being the first Hispanic QB and minority head coach to win a Super Bowl doesn't put him over the top. I'm not one to hand someone something just because of race or whatever, but he actually has the credentials, and we tend to celebrate people breaking barriers for minority communities like that in America. So, I think he deserves it. It just floors me that many Bills fans don't give Marv the props he deserves. I think a lot of younger fans just see 4 Super Bowl loses and maybe only remember his failed tenure as GM (not saying you specifically Ethan as I'm not sure how old you are) and think he is overrated. I won't give my full Marv diatribe (because I've done it many times before), but just think about these two points. No other coach has ever brought his team to four consecutive Super Bowls. No one else. None. Not even Belichick in New England during their 20-year domination of the NFL (though he came close). And Marv's personality and coaching had everything to do with that team's unity and resiliency. Just ask the players. And secondly, he was two feet away from beating the combo of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick in the Super Bowl. If that kick was just a couple of feet truer, the narrative would be completely different. But because it wasn't, because of just two feet, the narrative now is that he was a mediocre coach who got schooled by two great coaches. (btw, that same Bills team beat that same Giants team in the regular season, just 6 weeks before the Super Bowl, in another hard-fought evenly matched game.) Ok, just a little more diatribe...as to impact or innovation, well Marv did that with both special teams and with the no-huddle offense. Whatever the real story is about how the K-gun came about, Marv was the head coach who approved it and then used it exclusively as a weapon.

PFF seems to be the perfect example of the old cliché, "can't see the forest for the trees." They get so mired in stats that they create themselves that it is almost like they aren't seeing the full body of work of a player. Do they even take into account what type of defenses each team plays, who they were matched up against (caliber of player...did they always guard the #1 or not), weather conditions, whether they were playing with a lead or having to come back, the validity of their offense, how long are they on the field, were some of the receptions allowed when the team was playing prevent defense (so you're going to allow receptions underneath), etc., etc.? There is so much to take into account regarding what type of season a player had that you can't boil it down to just a couple of stats. And to that point, they also seem to cherry pick said stats to make a point or to prove they are correct. In the article they use two stats to say that Tre is not a top 101 player. TWO. Yards surrendered per snap and catches allowed, in which case Tre is ranked 26th and like 40th. Basically they are saying that you can throw out all of his other stats and just use those two to prove he isn't as good as you might think. Doesn't matter that he did not allow a TD (isn't that the main point of the game on defense, to not let the other team score? Isn't that more important than say allowing 1 yard more per reception across the season), throw out his league leading 6 interceptions and league leading 8 turnovers (Tre had two forced fumbles as well), forget that he is tied for 4th in passes defended. As the PFF article states, "the PFF grade captures all of the ways those numbers can mislead or paint an inaccurate picture." But then they don't tell you how. Apparently, it's their little secret. It also appears to me that they have quite large egos over there. Our stats/metrics know way better than any other stats or stat system, better than pro bowl voters, better than AP All Pro voters, better than the BillsMafia who have watched every snap by Tre over three seasons. They are just so full of themselves. OneBillsLive had one of the guys from PFF on recently and he was trying to explain their system. And it still sounds pretty subjective to me. He said (approximately), we watch every snap by every player. But in order to do so, we have to hire a lot of people to do this (one small group of people can't do it all). So, they basically hire freelancers to help. And then those people (whose qualifications we know not) watch the plays of a particular player and decide things like was that a catchable ball or a bad pass, etc. You can have this great system and be amazing number crunchers, but at the core of the system, it seems that it is still just people making subjective judgements. So, how they can claim that that is a more accurate judge than actual stats that matter in a game (like TDs and turnovers) is beyond me. I can understand that there is still a bit of a wait and see approach with Josh for a lot of people, especially people who were so vocally down on him during his draft, but to basically say that, "Eh, Tre White isn't really as good as he seems, bloated stats, he's maybe a top 10 corner, top 30 DB," seems crazy. As others said, it is hard to take these guys seriously and I don't think I will again even if and when they have a Buffalo Bill ranked highly (like they did with Jerry Hughes for pressures in 2018).

I know the draft value chart is just a guide, and by no means definitive, but according to the chart, Miami does have enough with just their 1st round picks this year if the Bengals were willing to trade. I guess it would depend on how much Cinci likes the other two QBs. If you don't feel it is that big of a drop off, make the trade. If you think Burrow is the guy, no trade. But if I'm Cinci and I'm going to make the trade, I'm going to want them to overpay. https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp Cinncinnati: 1st overall pick = 3,000 3rd round (65th) = 265 = 3,265 Miami: 5th overall = 1,700 18th overall = 900 26th overall = 700 = 3,300 OR Cinci 1st overall = 3,000 Miami 5th overall = 1,700 18th overall = 900 2nd round (39th) = 500 3,100

Going back to my youth and my brief interest in pro wrestling (got to shake Andre the Giant's hand at one match), I'd love to see Rex and Rob in a tag team match with The Wild Samoans.

Olsen's 2019 highlights for perspective. Not real fast anymore (if he ever was), but can still get separation, find holes in the defensive coverage, and make contested catches. The only thing I noticed is that he goes down pretty quickly/easily at first contact, but as an older guy, can't blame him, he's protecting his body. But, I don't really hold it against him, as most of his catches were in the 10-20 yard range, so he's picking up first downs. I think he and Knox would be a nice one-two at TE and as others have said, the leadership and mentorship he would bring for Knox, Sweeney, Josh, and the offense in general could be big.

As others said, she is still learning her craft and yes, her voice takes a little getting used to, but she's not just there as a pretty face, she really knows her football and sports in general and she comes prepared. You can tell when she has had to interview people like Greg Cosell, that they give her some respect because she is prepared and asks intelligent questions. So, I have no problem with her. She's a big upgrade from their earlier attempts of bringing a young woman on staff to do video segments with players, etc. And apparently a big part of her job is social media, so of course they want someone young to do that job.

Congrats Coach McD on the nomination. Well deserved. I think Shanahan will likely win it, but my vote would be for Harbaugh (with McD a close second).

I guess everyone sees it with different glasses based on how they feel about Flutie. You say most of the discussion was all about him. I came away feeling like the bulk or biggest part of the discussion was about how great the Bills fans are. I have nothing against Doug. Sure he has an ego, but most professional athletes do. And he did deserve to start that playoff game. He may not have been great, but he was the leader of that team at the time and Rob Johnson sucked. I don't blame him for being bitter about that. And I can't fault him for saying he'd have a better chance in the NFL now than when he played, because it's true. He wanted nothing but to play in the NFL, but because of his size, his opportunities were limited. Now because of all of the QB protection rules and the different style of play, many smaller QBs are having success. Is the animosity towards Doug just about the old QB controversy? The idea that he divided the locker room? Or is it something deeper? I understand that fans took sides in that debate too, but don't quite understand the continuing dislike of the guy.

And this, of course, still gets me pumped up whenever I hear it. Of course in my head I hear Howard Cossell's intro to the game over the music. And one more random one. This is a song by Bill Conti (of Rocky music fame) written for the James Bond movie For Your Eyes Only, but the NFL used it in the early 80s for some highlight videos. I think it was used for a highlight film of probably the best game I ever saw, the Dolphins/Chargers epic 1981 overtime battle in the playoffs.

My Favorites (or at least most memorable) from NFL Films (Sam Spence) are (in no particular order): A New Game The Final Quest Magnificent Eleven Round Up (posted above by row_33 in the Burger King commercial) Classic Battle (posted above by vincec) The Equalizer The Lineman (posted above by 4_kidd_4) The Raiders (posted above by Major)

Wouldn't mean anything now, but back in the 90s, when the special teams were great, they used to play the Jaws theme for kickoffs and the fans would make like their arms were a shark's mouth opening and closing.

To the OP's original question, this was Tasker's last year of eligibility in the normal selection process as he retired more than 25 years ago now. He can be voted in as a senior member, but the road is much harder: HOF Selection Process "To be eligible for the nominating process, a player or coach must have been retired for at least five years. Any other contributor such as a team owner or executive can be voted in at any time.[12] Fans may nominate any player, coach or contributor by simply writing via letter or email to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The Selection Committee is then polled three times by mail (once in March, once in September, and once in October) to eventually narrow the list to 25 semifinalists. In November, the committee then selects 15 finalists by mail balloting. A Seniors and Contributors Committee, subcommittees of the overall Selection Committee, nominate Seniors (those players who completed their careers more than 25 years ago) and Contributors (individuals who made contributions to the game in areas other than playing or coaching). The Seniors Committee and Contributors Committee add two or one finalist(s) on alternating years which makes a final ballot of 18 finalists under consideration by the full committee each year.[12] Committee members are instructed to only consider a candidate's professional football contributions and to disregard all other factors.[13] The Selection Committee then meets on "Selection Saturday," the day before each Super Bowl game to elect a new class. To be elected, a finalist must receive at least 80 percent support from the Board, with at least four, but no more than eight, candidates being elected annually." So, Tasker could still get in, but the odds are now really stacked against him since the Seniors committee only add 1 or 2 names every alternating year. So, first he would have to be picked by the seniors committee as 1 or 2 players from every player who has ever played but is not in the Hall. And if they selected him, he would then have to compete with the other 15 more recent players (whose careers ended less than 25 years ago) and get 80% of the vote. I think there will have to be an upswelling of sentiment for special teams play and/or for the Hall having overlooked special teams all these years for Tasker to get in going forward. And who knows if that will ever happen. But I would still love to see it and believe he deserves it.

Actually, quite a few. I can only assume that either you are too young to remember watching the 90s team live, or if you are old enough, then somehow your memory is failing you. Tasker made a huge number of momentum-changing and game-changing plays that helped the team win games. Just watch his highlights videos on youtube. Just as Bruce always seemed to be able to come up with a big sack in crunch time (to get the ball back for his offense or to seal a game), Tasker's plays often happened at critical junctures in games too---opening kickoffs that set the tone of the game, late in games when the team just needed someone to make a big play and he blocks a punt or makes a punt returner fumble the ball, etc. Also, many fans underestimate the value of field position in football, but it is a HUGE part of the game and Tasker was as important to that as say a great punter (Guy) or a great returner. His open-field tackles on All-Pro returners (like Deion Sanders, etc.) wouldn't just hurt the opponents field position, but they would fire up the crowd and his teammates. And he blocked punts (some which resulted in TDs or at least set the offense up on short fields), he created turnovers and at least one safety, he returned kicks and punts (when they needed him too), and was pretty good at WR when given a chance. In one week's time, in 1993, he blocked a punt in the Super Bowl and then a field goal in the Pro Bowl. The great players from that 90s team, the Hall of Famers, have a tight circle of friendship. Why do you think Tasker is in that select group with Bruce, Thurman, Jim, Andre, etc. It is because they thought of him on the same level as themselves, as far as greatness and importance to that team. They all believe he deserves to be in the Hall. He made 7 Pro Bowls and 12 times was 1st team ALL Pro. The only special teamer to ever win the MVP in a Pro Bowl (1993). To dismiss his Hall-of-Fame worthiness so cavalierly, without even a debate, seems a bit short-sighted, if not disrespectful to what Tasker gave and meant to this team.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Just can't root for Tennessee (because of the Homerun forward lateral still), I could care less about the Niners, and for some reason, I just don't like Rodgers that much. However, I would be happy to see Reid finally win a Super Bowl and KC is an old AFL team with a great fan base, who haven't appeared in a SB since they beat Minnesota in Super Bowl IV, way back in 1970.

I'm sure most of this has already been said, but the thing is no one can say with certainty right now whether Rosen can or can't develop into a starting QB in this league. Let me state first, I wanted Darnold or Allen in the draft and I would have been happy with Mayfield too. The only two I didn't want were Rosen and Jackson. Rosen based on the personality/likability issues raised at draft time (not his play) and Jackson because I was worried that he wasn't a good enough passer. I am thrilled the Bills went with Allen. I think he was the perfect fit for Buffalo and wouldn't trade him for any of the other guys. But there is no way that anyone, except for maybe the Miami staff, can properly evaluate Josh Rosen at this point. He gets drafted by a stripped-down Arizona team with a historically bad offensive line and a first-year head coach (who wouldn't even get a second year). There was no stability at all in the team or the organization and no weapons (except an aging Fitzgerald). That was not a good situation for developing a QB. The whole team was not just devoid of talent, but was also learning a new playbook, getting used to new coaches, etc, like Josh. Then he (a top 10 draft pick) is traded away after just one season. An unprecedented move in the league. That couldn't have helped his confidence. And the team he is traded to is in the midst of an historic purge of talent and full-on rebuild mode. And he has to once again get to know an entirely different playbook, teammates, coaches, and city. None of the other four QBs drafted with Rosen had to do all four of those things. Darnold is the only other one that had to do even two of those things. And Rosen, who apparently doesn't have the warmest of personalities, has to try to win a team over against one of the most loved QBs (personality-wise) in the league in Fitz? And he only had 3 starts in Miami. That may be because he wasn't ready, but under his circumstances, it isn't surprising that he wasn't ready. Plus, you can't extract his long-term potential from those three games. It is absolutely ridiculous to think a QB could develop and be good under those circumstances. Josh Allen, under much better circumstances (except for the O-line and WR talent of last year), has played 28 games and people still say he needs more time before a complete evaluation can be made on him (which is true). Well Rosen has only had 16 starts with two really bad teams having to start all over from scratch in year two. How can anyone give him a fair evaluation right now. I'll just add one stat into the conversation (as far as offensive line play is concerned---understanding that some sacks are on the QB, not the O-line, but...), Rosen has been sacked once every 8.2 attempts. In comparison, Josh Allen had been sacked once every 11.8 attempts, Darnold has been sacked once every 13.5 attempts, and Mayfield has been sacked once every 15.7 attempts. I don't know if Rosen could have or still can become a good QB or not in the right situation, but to evaluate him as terrible at this point seems unfair to me. As to the OP's original question, I would say it comes down to how the Miami staff feels about him. The hiring of Chan Gailey makes me think that they plan to at least start next season with Fitz at QB. Meaning they still don't think Rosen will be ready at the start of next season or don't believe in him at all. The next thought is will Miami draft a QB in the first round this year. It looks like Tua will be available to them at 5. He seems to be the guy they have wanted all along. So, I say Miami does draft Tua, but plans to start Fitz until Tua is healthy and has developed enough to take over the reigns (be that in year one or year two). If they thought somewhat highly of Rosen (even if they think he needs a lot of work still) maybe you keep him as a third developmental project. Wouldn't be bad having two top-10 drafted QBs to develop, to hedge your bets. But the way NFL rosters are now, it is tough to keep three QBs. So, ultimately, I think Miami will look to trade Rosen again (unless they can't secure a QB they want in the draft, in which case he probably would get one more year in Miami). And just as Arizona did not get a return on their investment, I don't think Miami gets as much as they traded for him. I don't think Rosen finds a starting spot next year, as most teams right now either have their QB, are grooming one, or will draft one. But I could see a team pick him up just to take a looksie, to see if they think they could develop him and hope in the meantime that he might be good enough as their number two. I could see teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Indy, or the Chargers taking a look. Teams that have an older QB, who will be in the QB market soon, so why not take a look and see if you can basically get a guy for pennies on the dollar (that is if any of them liked him coming out of the draft). Or maybe Indy if they aren't completely sold on Jacoby as their starter. Bring Rosen in as competition. I bet Frank could get the best out of him. No doubt someone will take a look, but Rosen will probably have to prove that he can at least be a decent backup right now, in order to eventually get another shot at being a starter. I think if he goes to a stable organization and can win a backup job, he'll get another shot some day and at worst will be able to hang around the league for a while as a backup. But if he goes to another bad situation, I could see him being out of the league by the end of his rookie deal.

I would also add Milano (3rd year), Wallace (2nd year), and Neal (2nd year) to your very solid and young list. A number of times this year I felt that this season (although it looked quite different) mirrored the 1988 Bills season. Remember Scott Norwood was the NFL league leader in points that year. Why? Because the offense had most of the pieces in place, but they weren't quite there yet. They had a lot of field goals and a lot of close games that went the Bills way. Seven of their wins were single-digit margins. It's not an exact comparison because I think that '88 team was at least a half-a-step or half-a-season ahead of this team in terms of experience (specifically at the QB position, where Jim was in his 5th year of professional ball, and Josh is only in year 2), but then this team is ahead of that '88 team in culture/chemistry (as that '88 team still needed to go through the bickering Bills in '89). Who knows if this current team will or won't reach the heights of the 90s Bills, but it is exciting to see our team being built the right way again, through the draft and built for sustained success. And my money says that these kids will grow up over the next year or two and become an excellent team.

That is not really a fair comparison. The Chiefs and Ravens were solid franchises with a winning culture already established and continuity in their front offices and coaching staffs. All they needed to do were replace a few old parts. Do you really think if KC hadn't drafted Mahomes and stuck with Alex Smith for a few more years they weren't still an annual playoff team? They might not have been vying for a Super Bowl, but they still would have been a good team. Same with the Ravens, if they kept Flacco instead of Lamar. They'd still be a playoff-level team. No one in 2017 would have been saying they needed a total rebuild from the studs up. On the other hand, the entire Bills organization: ownership, front office, coaching, culture, talent-level, salary cap, etc. had been a complete mess for the better part of 20 years. They had to clean out the entire front office and football administration levels, had to fix the salary cap, turnover almost the entire roster, get the team out of a sustained losing culture/mindset, etc., etc. You cannot compare those two situations and say look how quickly they turned it around. Of course they did, they had a hell of a lot less work to do to turn it around. After a 17-year playoff drought, we have made the playoffs two out of the last three years. No, none of us are satisfied with just making the playoffs, but how can you say it is not a huge step in the right direction. Obviously this is an our staff sucks and needs to be fired because they picked Josh Allen and not Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson post. Those two QBs were placed onto teams that were already built. Josh has had to be part of the build of the entire team here; a very different circumstance for the QB, the coaches, and the FO.

Hey Congrats KitchenerKaizer! Big Win! Tough loss on our end, wish we were advancing with you, but at least your Titans beating the Pats makes the day a little more bearable.

No it doesn't mean that at all. It is like when a family member fails at something; you're there to support them, pick up their spirits, and tell them we believe you'll get it next time. It's being a good fan. A Buffalo fan!

No question...the offense has turned around with Tannehill and Henry has been a beast down the stretch. Would make for a good smash-mouth game. I think our two teams match up well against each other. So let's both get over this first hurdle and see what happens. I'm sure Tannehill has some Patriots demons he'd like to exorcise too (like the Bills---since he played in the AFC East for so long).

Please kick the snot out of the Pats! How about a rematch of our teams in the AFC Championship game? One can dream... Good luck!

Exactly! To use this guy's method (of cherry picking stats), then Gilmore is not an All-pro either: Per PFF's own stats, he is ranked 41st in tackles (by a CB) and he's tied for 25th in receptions allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/stephon-gilmore/7016 And per PlayerProfiler.com, he's 22nd in receptions allowed, 19th in yards allowed, and 30th in yards allowed per reception. https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/stephon-gilmore/ Looking at those rankings alone (41st, 25th, 22nd, 19th, and 30th), then obviously Gilmore may be good, but not an All-Pro (as he stated about Tre)---per similar standards. Now let's look at Tre vs. Gilmore in the stats that actually count (per pro-football-reference.com), not made-up guesstimations by someone on PFF's staff: Player Targets Completions Comp. % Passes Defended Yards allowed Yds/comp. TDs allowed INTs Tackles (solo) FF FR Sacks TDs Gilmore 101 51 50.5 20 582 11.4 0 6 53 (44) 0 1 0 2 White 91 45 49.5 17 626 13.9 0 6 58 (48) 2 0 1 0 They both had All-Pro seasons! From Next Gen Stats: "In 2017, the Patriots signed CB Stephon Gilmore away from the division rival Bills. In the same off-season, Tre'Davious White was drafted by the Buffalo Bills to replace Gilmore. This season, both have dominated with comparable coverage numbers." [Among them defensive success rate: 60% for Tre, 63% for Gilmore; and in yards per target; passer rating; and completion percentage).] "Stephon Gilmore & Tre'Davious White have been in their own league in terms of not allowing a TD given their target volume. They are the only two players in the NFL to be targeted 50+ times as the nearest defender and not allow a TD." How this guy can think that Gilmore is All-Pro #1 CB in the league and Tre isn't even in the conversation for All-Pro, when their stats are almost identical, is beyond me and obviously shows some type of bias. He says there is more to playing CB than preventing TDs. Ok, but I'm struggling to think what is more important than preventing the other team from scoring and taking the ball away from them (which Tre did 8 times to Gilmore's 7 when you add in FF and FR). And he says Tre's interceptions were based on luck and bad QB play, so apparently his 6 count less than Gilmore's 6. Did Gilmore face only All-Pro QBs all year? He mentions Tre getting two off of Duck Hodges, well on the same day Gilmore got two off of Dalton---who was benched earlier in the season because of bad play and doesn't have an offensive line or anyone to throw the ball to except for Boyd. And none of Gilmore's interceptions had an element of luck (like a tipped pass)? Of course not, Gilmore's were all skill and Tre's were all luck. Yeah, right. And he harps on Tre's yards allowed when he only allowed 2.75 yards more per game than Gilmore. This guy is either an idiot or a person with a biased agenda.

I agree that I'd like to see Duke dress over Foster. I'll take a little hit on special teams for more potency on offense. Knox and Kroft will get the majority of any TE targets, so playing Sweeney probably doesn't help much. Smith hasn't had a penalty in a while and is a very good blocker. So... I wouldn't mind seeing Yeldon get more touches, but if you don't dress Gore, who is your short yardage, power back. I'm not saying that Gore has consistently succeeded in that role, but can Yeldon be that guy? I'm not sure. And most of what Yeldon does, Singletary can do. So, as long as Singletary stays healthy, there wouldn't be that many touches for Yeldon.

He was also pivotal in the Steelers game, made a couple of game saving plays!

Poor tackling. You can blame Daboll and Josh and the offense all you want. And yes, Josh missed a few plays that were there to be made and took some bad sacks. But they were going up against the best defense in the NFL. A team that is putting up historical numbers. The Pats have held teams to an average of 12.9 points/game. And we scored 17. Did the offense need to be better, yes, but they weren't the main reason for the loss in my mind. A few notes: Josh is only the 2nd quarterback this season (along with Watson) to throw two TD passes against the Pats D; John Brown's TD in the 3rd quarter is the first and only TD Gilmore has given up this year; Beasley is only the 2nd receiver this year to gain 100 yards against the Pats defense. This just in...the Pats D is really good. And the completely unbalanced time of possession in the first three quarters, didn't give the offense many opportunities or a chance to get into a rhythm. The real reason the Bills lost was unusually poor tackling by the defense. There were so many plays where not just the first guy, but then the second guy missed the tackle. They let Michel and Burkhead look like All-Pro backs. So, if you want to blame something, it should be that. Back to fundamentals this week boys. Still, though I'm not taking a moral victory out of this, for the most part, I'm proud of the team. They went in and played hard for 60 minutes. Had a 4th quarter lead and almost pulled the game into a tie at the end, despite being on the road, against the best in the business, and with the refs, let's say, not being friendly towards them. It's disappointing that the team couldn't get over the hump today, but there is no question that this Bills team can play with the big boys in this league. Take each game as experience. There is a lot to learn from this one, in a playoff-type atmosphere, for their future playoff games. Yes, I said games (plural). And hopefully next week they can gain some confidence and momentum against the Jets, and go into the playoffs confident and battle-tested. Go Bills!