folz

Welcome back Spags! I'd say you had a shot this year, but you had to pick over the Dolphins bones for a head coach, so...

It could be that Nseke isn't fully healthy yet. But I think the way the O-line stands is actually all about Feliciano. Ford was going to play one of the two spots (RG or RT), so it really came down to is Felciano/Ford a better combo than Ford/Nseke. The staff absolutely loves Feliciano. He plays with a mean streak (as does Ford). And I think they just wanted him on the field, so you put Ford at RT. Having two nasty finishers on the right side appears to be the best option at the moment (barring further evidence). We should be able to run running plays to either side with confidence this year. That is a huge step up from last year.

Oops...meant Duke Williams. Guess I got my fantasy football draft on the brain. Fixed it.

Yarbrough and Jaquan Johnson looked like men among boys out there. Sure it was against 3s and 4s (mostly guys who won't even be on Minnesota's squad), but it just proves they're a cut above most of the other players tonight. It will be tough not finding a spot for them on the roster (especially with Love on IR). But there are no guarantees. Oh how I wish there were a spot for Marcus Murphy, but I'm afraid he will be a victim of numbers. The kid just plays hard every play, no matter what he's asked to do. And he's got some skills. He'll be on someone's squad this year, if not on Buffalo's. Duke WIlliams looked good making contested catches over the middle. Strong, safe hands. I think they have to keep him for that extra dimension of size in the WR corps. RayRay surprised me with both of the plays he made tonight. That first play, what a juke move and speed to beat three defenders to open space and then he lowered his head and bulled through a couple of players for like six more yards. I didn't think he had that in his game. The kid wants to make this team. Who knows? Robert Foster secured his roster spot (as if it wasn't already) with a great special teams play, hitting the returner just as the ball got there. Proved he could play teams and will do whatever is asked of him. I actually though that Lacey played a decent game, but not enough to keep his roster spot from last year. Dodson actually outshined him I thought, but I don't think he makes the cut either. Shout out to Kyle Peko who made a few big plays and got good push up the middle. Came out of the game with a wrist or shoulder banged up, but then got back in the game later. Tyree wasn't great, but he hung in there and brought the team back. Definitely practice squad worthy. Easley looked fast out there, 4 receptions, made the play to set up the final TD. And Sills V snagged the TD (after most of his other targets were bad balls from Tyree). Both practice squad bound if not picked off of waivers. Great comeback! Way to make the most meaningless game on the NFL calendar fun to watch. And as others have said, loved seeing the whole team celebrating with each other. The team chemistry is through the roof.

I like Rocket's thinking. If we could swing a deal without a subtraction from our team in another area, that would be great: Shaq: Texans would need to fill Clowney's DE spot. Shaq is a very solid DE (just not a great pass rusher), former 1st rounder. And for the Bills, we wouldn't need him with Clowney here and most likely they're letting Shaq walk at the end of the year anyhow. So we don't lose anything. Yeldon: They need RB help with Miller going down. Johnson and Yeldon could be a decent backfield. He's on our bubble and even if he makes the team, probably wouldn't play much barring injuries. McKenzie: They want a third receiver. They don't need a stud (they have Hopkins), they do need a slot receiver with KeKe Coutee injured with an ankle. Plus he brings return help on special teams. Again McKenzie is on the bubble for us. So, we're fine without him. I know it's not a popular opinion right now, but I think losing players like McCoy and Zay hurts our team for this year. We'd gain DE help, but lose talent at two other positions. Guys who look to be playing a lot for us this year.

I almost started a thread on this last night because I felt exactly the way the OP does. Honestly, I think they actually stopped watching the game before halftime. They just blathered away about nothing as if they weren't even in the stadium. I usually hate away preseason game broadcasts cause you get the local broadcasters of the other team who don't care about your guys. But, hell, it was a lot better last week listening to the Carolina guys than it was these two national broadcasters last night. Just horrible.

I have watched all three preseason games (not just looked at the stat sheet). I even watched the second preseason game a second time (in condensed format). I'm not saying Zay is a great receiver and doesn't need to get better, but a couple of things. 1. Outside of Beasley, what other wide receiver has lit it up with the 1s? No one, not even John Brown. So, all of the other guys that we give props to (Duke, McKenzie, etc.) got their catches against 2s and 3s also. Why do those count but Zay's don't? 2. Again, I'm not saying Zay is great, but right now, after Brown and Beasley, who is better on the team? You can't say Foster is with the preseason he's had. RayRay? No. Duke? Getting better, but don't think you trust him as your third WR yet. McKenzie? Over his career, he's had a lot of drops and way more fumbles than Zay (but no one seems to hold that against him). And if Beasley is on the field, you're not putting McKenzie on the outside as your #2 consistently. Maybe Roberts, but he hasn't done much in the preseason games and they aren't going to want to expose him too much if he's doing both kickoff and punt return duties. Like it or not, Zay is currently the safest number 3 receiver to go with. And just as you think some of us make excuses for Zay, I think some of the anti-Zay people only point out his mistakes and never give him props when he does make a play. At one point last year, I reviewed all of Zay's "drops" from his rookie year. I'm telling you, if you go back and look at it, yes he had a good number of drops, but it actually wasn't as bad as some make it out to be because Tyrod threw so many bad passes. Balls over his head, just out of bounds, at his feet, etc. Honestly. And last year, a lot of the drops were early in the season. Well we had bad QB play and then a rookie QB who hadn't learned not to throw every ball 100 mph yet. By the end of the year, Josh and Zay had a pretty good connection going. He had 7 TDs and almost 700 yards. That's not bad...but for a number 2 (which he should be---not comparing it to number 1 WR stats) Let's face it, Zay should have never been thrust into a number one WR role, which he was his first two years. Even at his best, because of his tools, he's probably a number 2 WR. Yet he always had to face the best corners of the opponent with no pressure on the opposite side of the field, with spotty QB play (for a season and a half), and no run game (last year), etc. It's tough for a young player to thrive like that. Think about Ju-Ju going to Pittsburgh. He had a HOF QB throwing to him and an All-Pro WR opposite him drawing double teams, and a solid run game keeping the defense honest. I'm not comparing Zay and Ju-JU, just the situations they each came into and how that can effect a young player and their confidence. And what about coaching. Two years, two position coaches, both fired. Sounds like last year's WR room was not good and Zay's rookie year he had his college coach, so how much was he learning new or NFL level. Anyhow, those may sound like excuses to you, but I see it as giving context to Zay's situation and why he may still improve rather than being a definite bust. There is no question that this is a make or break year for Zay, if he doesn't take a big step forward, he won't be around next year. But for this year, I think the team is better off with him and I want to see if he can take that next step forward/gain his confidence back now that he'll have a viable offense around him, and where he's not having to be the number one WR on an overall bad offense. Maybe he will or maybe he won't, I just think that is a decision for later this season (as things shake out) or next offseason, not right now.

I'm not saying Zay has lit it up in the preseason or anything, but it is somewhat disingenuous to say that Zay has done nothing except for dropping that TD (where he was about to be lit up by the way). He has had 5 receptions for 77 yards in the preseason. And 4 of those 5 receptions were for first downs. As comparison, John Brown has had 3 receptions for 45 yards, for instance. Should he be cut for doing nothing in the preseason? I still think Zay is on the team, but I'll admit that him playing that long last night did make me for the first time question his role if not his spot on the team. I had always hoped that Duke would make this team, but was losing that hope earlier in camp. But that TD from Barkley showed why it might be nice to have a big guy on the team (besides our TEs). Robert Foster is the biggest mystery of camp. Thought he was a lock from day one, but now I'm not so sure. What the heck is going on there? Maybe it was one of those 2nd year players who after a bit of success his rookie year, thought he had arrived and so didn't put enough work in in the offseason (kind of like Dawkins last year). We just don't have enough information at this point to know what the coaches are thinking of him. Props to Isiah McKenzie. At the start of camp, I didn't think he'd have much of a chance (despite some nice play last year). But, other than his muff last night, he has played really well, when given the opportunity in the preseason games. RayRay apparently practiced well early on, but I don't think he's shown enough in the games. Maybe another year on the practice squad for McCloud. So, I'm going with Brown, Beasley, Zay, Roberts, McKenzie, and Duke (at this point). With Foster being the wild card. If they keep 7 he's in. If it's a fight for the 6th slot and the coaches are planning to keep Foster, then maybe it is McKenzie who goes, since between Roberts, Beasley, and Brown, you already have most of what McKenzie would offer. He'd be nice to have in case of injury, but he's probably not getting many snaps if everyone is healthy. I guess the question is if Roberts gets hurt, do we have someone to return kicks without either Isiah or RayRay?

The game was completely over officiated. For both teams (not saying the bills got it worse). The Zay holding call was bad. There were a couple of other bad calls in the first half.

I do not understand how this is still a topic being bantered about. Why anybody wouldn't want Shady on this team this year is absolutely beyond me. Zay I can understand, but personally I do want him to have one more season to prove it or not. Both of these guys will be important pieces of the team this year. If you want to talk about trading or releasing or not resigning them next year, sure. But for this year, there is no question that they are more valuable on the team than off. Neither player has any significant trade value at the moment. So why give up good players for, what a conditional 6th or 7th round pick. I do not see how that helps the team. Do some of you guys not want to win this year? Sure, Zay may never become more than an average #2 WR, but after Brown and Beasley, who on the team is better right now? Singletary may or may not be ready to go as a rookie all year, Gore could finally hit the wall. We've had too many seasons where having no depth has killed us. We finally have some real depth at a number of positions and people want to deplete that for a low round draft pick? I just do not understand the logic.

That's the problem with missing time. Other guys step up in your place. They must feel confident now with Kevin Johnson as the third outside corner and it looked like E.J. was headed for the backup slot role and since they signed Captain and have been trying to groom Neal for that role too, they must feel like they are set now without E.J.

Feel bad for E.J. Very good player, just can't stay healthy. Hope things work out for him in the future.

I'm not saying I will draft these guys (although I do already have Josh in my keeper league), but here's what I think: Yes, Beasley should definitely be of value in PPR formats. Josh Allen as a backup QB is good. He was actually very good down the stretch last season as far as fantasy scoring goes. Shady actually may be a value where he's being drafted. Don't want to count on him as your RB1 or RB2, but as a flex option, could prove valuable. John Brown in deeper leagues (I'm in one league with 12 teams and a 26 round draft). Singletary and Foster in keeper or dynasty leagues. Bills DST IDP possibilities: Tremaine Edmunds, Jordan Poyer, Matt Milano

Yes, I think they keep 5 DEs with Love and Johnson getting the nod over Yarbrough. And I agree about Lacey, he was a man on a mission to keep his roster spot last night. He was all over the field, looked good in run support and made some plays in coverage too. He was one of the main guys that flashed for me last night. He was around the ball all night. Last year the Bills kept 7 Linebackers. This year, if they keep the same, I think your top 5 are set with Milano, Lorenzo, Edmunds, Thompson (as the 4th), Stanford (as your main backup middle LB). That leaves Lacey, Joseph, Dodson, and Maurice Alexander fighting for two spots. After last night, I think it is Lacey and Joseph. If they like Dodson enough, maybe he goes to the practice squad and I don't think the other Alexander has shown enough, so he's probably gone. Earlier in camp, some said Lacey's roster spot might be in jeopardy, but he may have secured it last night.

And the ties between these two teams go all the way back to the beginning. In 1995, the first year in the league for the expansion Carolina Panthers, they had: GM Bill Polian TE Pete Metzelaars QB Frank Reich WR Don Beebe LB Carlton Bailey FB Nate Turner And funny enough, on that 1995 Carolina Panthers coaching staff were Joe Pendry, Jim McNally, George Catavalos, and Greg Roman (as defensive quality control coach and asst. strength and conditioning coach)...all guys who would later go on to coach for the Bills.

I just rewatched the condensed version of the game on Game Pass, here are my thoughts: Tremaine Edmunds looked really fast to the ball in run support. For the most part, the first two units of the offensive line looked solid. Gave the QBs time, opened some holes in the run game. I thought Josh looked good for the most part. Had the one bad throw to Zay and the timing with his receivers on the deep ball is obviously not there yet (it will come), but he moved the ball, drew the Colts Offside with his cadence, picked up a first down with his legs. Not bad for a shake the rust off type of game. And its nice to have a backup that can be counted on. It wasn't all good for Barkley, but he played well and I have confidence in him. The D-line looks stout and deep: Star and Shaq both looked really good last night. Shaq is so good in the run game, setting the edge, tackles in the backfield, etc. And Star wasn't just eating up blocks, but making plays (could be the extra attention placed on Oliver by the Colts' offense helped). Trent had a nice QB pressure Oliver didn't play as great as some people intimated, but he held up very well against a really good player in Nelson and against a number of double teams (the future looks bright for him) Jordan Phillips had a really good game---nice push up the middle all night, had a QB hit, and a number of other good plays Hello Daryl Johnson. A whale of a game for the 7th rounder. Got push into the backfield all night, had a sack, a QB hit, and at least 3 more QB pressures Mike Love was very active. Had at least 4 QB hurries or pressures. I think Johnson and Love have solidified their spots at #4 and #5 DE. With Horrible Harry backing up Star...I think that is our top 8 defensive linemen. Yarbrough (love the kid) had a nice sack late in the game, but otherwise I didn't feel like he showed up enough against the Colts' third stringers. Running Back depth looks phenomenal Behind the two future hall of famers, Singletary, Sinorise Perry, Marcus Murphy, and Christian Wade all showed up last night. Singletary was very productive as a runner, but even more so as a receiver. Sinorise is a good special teams guy (which helps his case), but showed he could also help out in the run game. He ran tough and had a nice reception and the TD. I would hate to see Murphy cut. I love the way that kid runs the ball. Man he just runs hard every touch and always gets positive yards. Wade is probably destined for the practice squad because he has a lot to still learn, but boy was he electric on his TD run. He looked incredibly fast, like the film was being run in fast forward. The great Zay debate: I know a lot of people are down on Zay, so seeing him drop that pass near the goal line was enough for them to feel their opinion is justified. But I'll just say this, Zay was targeted 4 times. Only 3 were catchable balls, as Josh threw the one curl in the dirt. So, Zay went 2 for 3 on catchable balls. The other two were both first downs. An 8-yard reception on 3rd and 4 (with a defender hanging on his back) and a 23-yard reception on 2nd and 10. Yes, I would have liked to see him hold on to that ball at the goal line, but it wasn't an easy grab by any means. He was a bout to get lit up by the safety. But either way, it wasn't all bad for Zay. Helped Themselves (guys not already mentioned above): LB Corey Thompson, solid game, always seemed to be in the right position and hitting the holes with some steam P Corey Carter, dropped one inside the 10 and had a 51 yarder with a lot of hang time, so no return WR Isiah McKenzie, looked good in both the passing and return game S Dean Marlowe, with his interception LB Vosean Joseph, flashed a bit at linebacker and had a huge Special Teams hit/tackle CB Lafayette Pitts, made some nice plays CB Denzel Rice, tight coverage, breakup in the endzone, made a 3rd down stop in run support Hurt Themselves Russell Bodine, oof, at least now he might get an injury settlement. He will not make this team. Vlad Ducasse, consistently got beat, it's finally the end of the road for Vlad P Corey Bojorquez, not a good night for the young punter T.J. Yeldon, can't fumble the ball, especially with so many other good backs on the roster David Sills, one drop and an offensive pass interference Tackles McGin and Wesley, looked a little shaky...it's really too bad that Waddle got injured. Tackle depth could be a problem, even though Ford can kick back out as the swing tackle. All in all, lots of positives and lots to work on, but a very good first outing for the Bills.

1. In his locker room interview, one of the reporters asked him if he knew what his 40-time was, if he'd ever been clocked. Christian said that they had a pro day in Tampa for the International players that scouts came to and he was officially clocked at 4.52. But he and the reporter laughed saying he was probably a lot faster than that (from seeing him run that TD). 2. There are four international players allocated to the NFL this year and apparently, the AFC East was picked as a division by random draw to host the 4 players (provided that they weren't first offered a free agent contract from any other NFL team)---per the link below. So, the Jets, Dolphins, and Pats all received an international player as well. So, they pick a division by random draw (maybe rotating out divisions that have recently been part of the program). Once the division is chosen, however, I couldn't find if the NFL just decided which individual player goes to each team in that division or if maybe there is a second random draw on which guy goes to which team in that division. I don't think there is kind of a mini draft, where the teams in that division randomly draw for slots with the team with the 1st spot picking the guy they like best, etc. So, it looks like the Bills had little to no input on who they got, let alone whether they would get a guy in the first place. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001025740/article/four-international-players-added-to-rosters-ahead-of-2019-season

Eli did play in the preseason game last night. Was in late. I saw him make at least one good play in the 4th quarter. But agree that he obviously wasn't going to make this roster. I love how Beane and this staff are never idle. They are always looking to improve the team, which after the draft and FA, usually means churning the bottom of the roster looking for diamonds in the rough or simply bodies to cover for positions that have seen injuries.

Over 1,300 all purpose yards. +1,000 rushing/+300 receiving. Shady is no where near done. He's angry; he's motivated; he's now got a legitimate line in front of him and a stable QB position; he's got Frank to push him and Singletary to hold off; he doesn't have any off-field issues hanging over his head this year; and with as few carries as he had last year, his legs should be fresh; he still wants 12,000 career yards, but his goals are now more team oriented. Gonna be a big year for LeSean. The other RBs will definitely get their touches, especially on certain weeks depending on opponent, but McCoy is still the unquestionable #1 RB and I think he will prove that he hasn't slowed down yet.

Opening day 1984. I don't remember the game (21-17 loss to the Pats) as much as the experience. We drove down the night before and camped out in a field just outside the Rich Stadium parking lot, woke up and tailgated all morning. It was great, even for a 13-year old kid who couldn't drink. We were there early enough to greet the players as they arrived (marveling at the swank cars they were driving and just how big these men were), and of course we got some autographs and high fives. Then we threw the football around the parking lot, with random strangers occasionally joining in, cooked out on the grill, talked with other Bills fans, and the whole time Van Miller's voice was hovering in the air, as the pregame show blared out in unison from hundreds of different radios across the lot. It was a great day and definitely put the bug in me. I do, however, remember my second game clearly. Later that same year (1984), after the Bills had opened the season with 11 straight losses, they faced a very good Dallas Cowboys team, who sat atop the NFC East. We sat in a very empty upper deck. We had almost an entire section to ourselves. Scattered around were fans with paper bags on their heads (ala the unknown comic, for those who remember him) with "Bills fan" or "0-11" written on them. We knew we were in for another drubbing, but what the hell, the tailgating was still fun. And then on the first play from scrimmage, rookie RB Greg Bell rips off an 85-yard TD run. Bell would go on to have a monster day with 206 yards and 2 TDs. And somehow the defense stymied the Cowgirls, holding them to just 3 points. After 11 games, the Bills were finally victorious, beating Dallas 14-3. The few of us who were there were going mad. It was (to a much lesser extent) like when the Bills broke the playoff drought. A huge, unexpected upset. And 1-11 looked so much better than 0-12.

Yes, thanks stevewin! A couple of interesting tidbits in there: 1. 6-7 O-lineman who are really fighting for spots. By deduction it must be Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Long/Feliciano, Ty/Cody. Does that mean, for now, they expect Spain to start at LG and the battles are Long and Feliciano for RG (both of whom could be interior swingman if they lose out, both with experience at center) and Ford and Nseke at RT (the loser would be the swing tackle). They probably keep more than that (8-9?), but that looks to be the makeup of the starting 5 and top 2 backups at this point. 2. When he talked about receivers, he mentioned Andre Roberts first (leadership and special teams, plus he's been playing well in camp as a receiver), then Brown and Beasley. Then Foster and Zay. So, I assume those 5 are all projected to make the team (as most of us have assumed). But the interesting thing to me were the next two names he mentioned, McCloud and, I assume, the OP meant McKenzie. I know a lot of people were somewhat high on McKenzie from last year, but I had totally written off Ray-Ray (maybe I was a bit premature). I was originally thinking Duke, Sills, or Phillips would have the best shot at the 6th spot. Maybe those points have been obvious in camp, but I haven't had a chance to check much of the camp coverage yet, so those items jumped out to me.

No one is giving Zay a pass. If he doesn't progress this season, he won't be around long. But many of us saw progression in his game last year and feel he gets another year to prove it. So, we'll wait and see, hoping he takes that next step (year three can be a big jump for some WRs). But to not understand why people like Zay and not OBJ seems a little delusional. With OBJ, it's not just one arrogant comment in one article, it's many comments and many articles, and interviews, and actions over and over again that make him seem arrogant, a diva, a me-first kind of guy. And I think the Bills/Giants game that another poster referred to was the game where he threw punches at Bills players. Twice in that same game, he punched a Bills player on the field and then ran and hid behind some of his teammates. That is both unsportsmanlike and cowardly at the same time. If it was just one comment, one time from OBJ, it would be forgiven by most, but he has continually displayed behavior that a lot of people just don't like or find mature. With Zay, however, it was just one mistake. It was a good kid making one bad decision. From everything I can tell of the situation, it wasn't mental health issues or some prima dona tantrum, it looks like he tried synthetic marajuana. Some people react like that to it. There was the other former Bill (I think a lineman), who was found out walking in a field naked after using it, etc. Zay is a good kid who made a mistake. He is all about the team and has not shown any other bad behavior, outside of that one incident, he's well like in the locker room, etc. With OBJ, the behavior has been consistent. To compare the two in that way is a huge stretch. And call it loser mentality, if you will, but some of us fans still want to like the players we root for and we root for our guys to get better. And you can have the best of both worlds. Look at the 90s Bills. We loved those guys and they were winners. They weren't choir boys, but they were all about team, community, family, etc. And its been said over and over again, you have to take into account where the Bills were at the 2017 draft. Lame duck GM, new coach who doesn't know his team yet and who will basically be drafting players without a true GM cohort, in a draft that was, by most accounts, not a good QB draft, with possibly the best QB draft in years coming the following season. You may have liked and wanted Mahomes, but it should also be understandable why the Bills didn't want to take a shot at their franchise QB under all of those circumstances that year. At that time, it probably seemed like the smartest move was to wait for the following year to go after their QB. And some in this thread have already inducted Mahomes into the Hall of Fame. Let's at least see how his second year as starter goes first, shall we. I too think he's going to be a very good QB for years to come, but if you think he's going to throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs every year...well, it just ain't going to happen. Only 11 times have QBs thrown for more than 5,000 yards (Brees the only one to do it more than once) and only 3 times has a QB thrown for 50 TDs (Peyton and Brady the other two). To think Mahomes is going to continue at last year's pace, just isn't realistic. If he did, he's automatically the greatest QB of all time, without question. So, he's almost guaranteed to take at least a little step back. If we're really going to compare Mahomes and Allen, we have to see at least two more seasons to even start to make a fair assessment. So, there doesn't seem to be any point to moaning about it now. There just isn't enough evidence to make any type of definitive statement about it currently, so why keep harping on it? As to the OP and the 2017 draft, yes, White and Milano look to be great picks. I still think Dawkins was too. He played really well his rookie year, with solid vets around him. Last year, he admitted that he took his foot off the pedal a bit (thinking he'd arrived) and there was absolutely no leadership in the OL room to not let him do that. Plus, he was playing next to weaker or inexperienced talent, which doesn't help. You can't underestimate what losing Wood and Incognito did to last year's team, especially for Dawkins. He has rededicated himself and I think he will prove to be at least an above average LT, even if he never becomes say a top 5 or top 10 guy. I think he'll have a good season this year. And as I said above, I haven't given up on Zay yet. He gets one more year to prove it. And Jason Croom was an undrafted rookie in 2017, not much yet, but he has flashed a bit. There is still a chance he turns into something, even though the TE room suddenly looks very crowded. Not a bad draft for a first time head coach with no real GM at the time.

The call was very close and probably could have gone either way. More often than not, they probably don't call that. But, by the letter of the law, I do think it was a foul. If you pause the video at the exact moment that he makes contact, his left foot is about one foot from the goal line (which you can see because it has been cleared off). When his foot next moves, it is on the goal line. So, at best, his back (right) foot could have been on or near the the one yard line, but the majority of his body had to be beyond the one yard line. It was a clear pick play. He wasn't going out for a pattern, he was there to pick the defenders off. I believe the one yard rule is really to allow a WR to block on a running play, not to allow pick plays (as long as its near the line of scrimmage). So, by both the letter and the spirit of the law, it was probably the right call, even if the refs often don't make that call on similar plays.

A few things about the article and/or posts in this thread... 1. I'd only be mad if Kelly wasn't on the list at all. As others said, it's somewhat subjective. I'd have him a bit higher, but this list is obviously weighing Super Bowl wins as one of the most significant factors. 2. The idea that the NFC was great and the AFC was pathetic during the Bills Super Bowl runs is actually a fallacy. The Bills also dominated the NFC in the regular season during those years and the records of the AFC vs. NFC were pretty even. It was just that during the Super Bowl years, the NFC had, say 2 or 3 of the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFL (the Bills being the lone AFC team) each year. But it wasn't like the NFC was stacked top to bottom and the AFC was pathetic. It was actually pretty even outside of those few dominant teams winning Super Bowls. The Bills may have had, say, one easier playoff game each season than their NFC opponent, but it's not like they had a cakewalk thru the season, while the NFC teams were playing All-Star rosters every week. And the Bills did beat the Giants in the regular season the same year as they lost the Super Bowl to them, they beat Dallas in the regular season between their two Super Bowl loses to them, they beat the 49ers in the regular season during their prime, etc. It's not like the Bills beat up on terrible AFC teams, but couldn't also beat the cream of the crop of the NFC (unfortunately, just not in the Super Bowls). 3. The idea that Marv Levy was a bad coach or even just not that good, has to be put to bed also. Yes, that team was stacked with talent, but there were also a ton of egos. Levy led those men and got them all pulling in the same direction, playing as a team and family. A lot of coaches wouldn't have been able to pull it off with that bunch. The NFL has seen a lot of very talented teams that didn't win squat because they couldn't come together. Coaching is a hell of a lot more than just Xs and Os. And for all of the Levy getting outcoached talk, he was two feet away from beating two genius coaches (Parcells and Bellichick) in a Super Bowl. And if you say it's only because the Bills had more talent, well, I would again point out the week 15 game in that same season where the Bills won a hard fought 17-13 game against those same G-Men. Those teams were actually very evenly matched. Or if the Giants were so devoid of talent that year, how did they beat Montana and Rice's 49ers in the NFC Championship game? And a last point on talent level, in 1990, the Bills had 5 first team All Pros, the Giants had 4 1st team All Pros (Bills had 3 second teamers, Giants had 2 second teamers). The Bills had 10 Pro Bowlers, the Giants had 8 Pro Bowlers. Not that big of a gap. As for Washington in the 3rd Super Bowl, what can you say but they were a team of destiny that year. And although I hate to admit it, Dallas was just a better team than the Bills by the last two Super Bowls. But, other than the Super Bowls, Levy won a hell of a lot of games, a bad coach doesn't do that even with a talented team. In his 11 full seasons with the Bills, his winning percentage was 63%. He is 21st in overall wins by an NFL coach, 11th in playoff wins, and tied for 4th in most conference championships. And don't tell me it's just because the Bills had a lot of talent. On lists of great NFL teams, those Bills teams don't even make the top 25. Every great team had a lot of talent and every coach considered to be great, had great talent. Marv was a damn good coach. 4. Players I think are too high on that QB list: R. Staubach, A. Rodgers, T. Aikman, R. Wilson, B. Roethlisberger, K. Warner. (Aikman shouldn't even be on the list, as others said, let alone top 15. He was a good QB on an amazing team, not a great QB.) 5. And no love for Dan Fouts or Philip Rivers? Is there some anti-San Diego bias? ?

One play CAN make someone legendary. History and sports history is littered with people who became legendary for doing one thing. The reason the Lett play can be considered by some as making Don Beebe a Bills legend is because that play was a symbol of that teams perseverance, resiliency, effort, and never quit attitude. It embodied Marv's reading of the Scottish poem to his team after the first Super Bowl loss: "Fight on, my men," says Sir Andrew Barton, "I am hurt, but I am not slain; I'll lay me down and bleed a while, And then I'll rise and fight again." Sometimes a symbolic moment or being a metaphor, makes one legendary just as much as stats. Plus, Beebe was a part of that team and family for the entire run. Came in 1989 (the first year the team was good, the bickering Bills, etc.) and was there for the entire Super Bowl(s) run (left in 1994). He was one of THE guys. And just because he didn't have huge stats, doesn't mean he wasn't an important part of the team. First of all, he was on a team of All Pros and Hall of Famers. There were only so many balls to go around. Plus, you don't think the threat of his speed helped open the middle of the field for Andre and Thurman? In 1991, he had 7 TDs (1 in the playoffs). In 1992, he had 2 playoff TDs. He had 21 TDs overall for the Bills. That's not a gaudy number, by any means, but it is a pretty significant contribution to a stacked team vying for Super Bowls. Anyhow, depending on your definition of "legend" (as other have pointed out), you may or may not consider Don Beebe a legend. But, there is definitely no need to belittle his contributions to the franchise and that team. If nothing else, Beebe is a true Buffalo Bill. And that's good enough for me.