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And the ties between these two teams go all the way back to the beginning. In 1995, the first year in the league for the expansion Carolina Panthers, they had: GM Bill Polian TE Pete Metzelaars QB Frank Reich WR Don Beebe LB Carlton Bailey FB Nate Turner And funny enough, on that 1995 Carolina Panthers coaching staff were Joe Pendry, Jim McNally, George Catavalos, and Greg Roman (as defensive quality control coach and asst. strength and conditioning coach)...all guys who would later go on to coach for the Bills.

I just rewatched the condensed version of the game on Game Pass, here are my thoughts: Tremaine Edmunds looked really fast to the ball in run support. For the most part, the first two units of the offensive line looked solid. Gave the QBs time, opened some holes in the run game. I thought Josh looked good for the most part. Had the one bad throw to Zay and the timing with his receivers on the deep ball is obviously not there yet (it will come), but he moved the ball, drew the Colts Offside with his cadence, picked up a first down with his legs. Not bad for a shake the rust off type of game. And its nice to have a backup that can be counted on. It wasn't all good for Barkley, but he played well and I have confidence in him. The D-line looks stout and deep: Star and Shaq both looked really good last night. Shaq is so good in the run game, setting the edge, tackles in the backfield, etc. And Star wasn't just eating up blocks, but making plays (could be the extra attention placed on Oliver by the Colts' offense helped). Trent had a nice QB pressure Oliver didn't play as great as some people intimated, but he held up very well against a really good player in Nelson and against a number of double teams (the future looks bright for him) Jordan Phillips had a really good game---nice push up the middle all night, had a QB hit, and a number of other good plays Hello Daryl Johnson. A whale of a game for the 7th rounder. Got push into the backfield all night, had a sack, a QB hit, and at least 3 more QB pressures Mike Love was very active. Had at least 4 QB hurries or pressures. I think Johnson and Love have solidified their spots at #4 and #5 DE. With Horrible Harry backing up Star...I think that is our top 8 defensive linemen. Yarbrough (love the kid) had a nice sack late in the game, but otherwise I didn't feel like he showed up enough against the Colts' third stringers. Running Back depth looks phenomenal Behind the two future hall of famers, Singletary, Sinorise Perry, Marcus Murphy, and Christian Wade all showed up last night. Singletary was very productive as a runner, but even more so as a receiver. Sinorise is a good special teams guy (which helps his case), but showed he could also help out in the run game. He ran tough and had a nice reception and the TD. I would hate to see Murphy cut. I love the way that kid runs the ball. Man he just runs hard every touch and always gets positive yards. Wade is probably destined for the practice squad because he has a lot to still learn, but boy was he electric on his TD run. He looked incredibly fast, like the film was being run in fast forward. The great Zay debate: I know a lot of people are down on Zay, so seeing him drop that pass near the goal line was enough for them to feel their opinion is justified. But I'll just say this, Zay was targeted 4 times. Only 3 were catchable balls, as Josh threw the one curl in the dirt. So, Zay went 2 for 3 on catchable balls. The other two were both first downs. An 8-yard reception on 3rd and 4 (with a defender hanging on his back) and a 23-yard reception on 2nd and 10. Yes, I would have liked to see him hold on to that ball at the goal line, but it wasn't an easy grab by any means. He was a bout to get lit up by the safety. But either way, it wasn't all bad for Zay. Helped Themselves (guys not already mentioned above): LB Corey Thompson, solid game, always seemed to be in the right position and hitting the holes with some steam P Corey Carter, dropped one inside the 10 and had a 51 yarder with a lot of hang time, so no return WR Isiah McKenzie, looked good in both the passing and return game S Dean Marlowe, with his interception LB Vosean Joseph, flashed a bit at linebacker and had a huge Special Teams hit/tackle CB Lafayette Pitts, made some nice plays CB Denzel Rice, tight coverage, breakup in the endzone, made a 3rd down stop in run support Hurt Themselves Russell Bodine, oof, at least now he might get an injury settlement. He will not make this team. Vlad Ducasse, consistently got beat, it's finally the end of the road for Vlad P Corey Bojorquez, not a good night for the young punter T.J. Yeldon, can't fumble the ball, especially with so many other good backs on the roster David Sills, one drop and an offensive pass interference Tackles McGin and Wesley, looked a little shaky...it's really too bad that Waddle got injured. Tackle depth could be a problem, even though Ford can kick back out as the swing tackle. All in all, lots of positives and lots to work on, but a very good first outing for the Bills.

1. In his locker room interview, one of the reporters asked him if he knew what his 40-time was, if he'd ever been clocked. Christian said that they had a pro day in Tampa for the International players that scouts came to and he was officially clocked at 4.52. But he and the reporter laughed saying he was probably a lot faster than that (from seeing him run that TD). 2. There are four international players allocated to the NFL this year and apparently, the AFC East was picked as a division by random draw to host the 4 players (provided that they weren't first offered a free agent contract from any other NFL team)---per the link below. So, the Jets, Dolphins, and Pats all received an international player as well. So, they pick a division by random draw (maybe rotating out divisions that have recently been part of the program). Once the division is chosen, however, I couldn't find if the NFL just decided which individual player goes to each team in that division or if maybe there is a second random draw on which guy goes to which team in that division. I don't think there is kind of a mini draft, where the teams in that division randomly draw for slots with the team with the 1st spot picking the guy they like best, etc. So, it looks like the Bills had little to no input on who they got, let alone whether they would get a guy in the first place. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001025740/article/four-international-players-added-to-rosters-ahead-of-2019-season

Eli did play in the preseason game last night. Was in late. I saw him make at least one good play in the 4th quarter. But agree that he obviously wasn't going to make this roster. I love how Beane and this staff are never idle. They are always looking to improve the team, which after the draft and FA, usually means churning the bottom of the roster looking for diamonds in the rough or simply bodies to cover for positions that have seen injuries.

Over 1,300 all purpose yards. +1,000 rushing/+300 receiving. Shady is no where near done. He's angry; he's motivated; he's now got a legitimate line in front of him and a stable QB position; he's got Frank to push him and Singletary to hold off; he doesn't have any off-field issues hanging over his head this year; and with as few carries as he had last year, his legs should be fresh; he still wants 12,000 career yards, but his goals are now more team oriented. Gonna be a big year for LeSean. The other RBs will definitely get their touches, especially on certain weeks depending on opponent, but McCoy is still the unquestionable #1 RB and I think he will prove that he hasn't slowed down yet.

Opening day 1984. I don't remember the game (21-17 loss to the Pats) as much as the experience. We drove down the night before and camped out in a field just outside the Rich Stadium parking lot, woke up and tailgated all morning. It was great, even for a 13-year old kid who couldn't drink. We were there early enough to greet the players as they arrived (marveling at the swank cars they were driving and just how big these men were), and of course we got some autographs and high fives. Then we threw the football around the parking lot, with random strangers occasionally joining in, cooked out on the grill, talked with other Bills fans, and the whole time Van Miller's voice was hovering in the air, as the pregame show blared out in unison from hundreds of different radios across the lot. It was a great day and definitely put the bug in me. I do, however, remember my second game clearly. Later that same year (1984), after the Bills had opened the season with 11 straight losses, they faced a very good Dallas Cowboys team, who sat atop the NFC East. We sat in a very empty upper deck. We had almost an entire section to ourselves. Scattered around were fans with paper bags on their heads (ala the unknown comic, for those who remember him) with "Bills fan" or "0-11" written on them. We knew we were in for another drubbing, but what the hell, the tailgating was still fun. And then on the first play from scrimmage, rookie RB Greg Bell rips off an 85-yard TD run. Bell would go on to have a monster day with 206 yards and 2 TDs. And somehow the defense stymied the Cowgirls, holding them to just 3 points. After 11 games, the Bills were finally victorious, beating Dallas 14-3. The few of us who were there were going mad. It was (to a much lesser extent) like when the Bills broke the playoff drought. A huge, unexpected upset. And 1-11 looked so much better than 0-12.

Yes, thanks stevewin! A couple of interesting tidbits in there: 1. 6-7 O-lineman who are really fighting for spots. By deduction it must be Dawkins, Spain, Morse, Long/Feliciano, Ty/Cody. Does that mean, for now, they expect Spain to start at LG and the battles are Long and Feliciano for RG (both of whom could be interior swingman if they lose out, both with experience at center) and Ford and Nseke at RT (the loser would be the swing tackle). They probably keep more than that (8-9?), but that looks to be the makeup of the starting 5 and top 2 backups at this point. 2. When he talked about receivers, he mentioned Andre Roberts first (leadership and special teams, plus he's been playing well in camp as a receiver), then Brown and Beasley. Then Foster and Zay. So, I assume those 5 are all projected to make the team (as most of us have assumed). But the interesting thing to me were the next two names he mentioned, McCloud and, I assume, the OP meant McKenzie. I know a lot of people were somewhat high on McKenzie from last year, but I had totally written off Ray-Ray (maybe I was a bit premature). I was originally thinking Duke, Sills, or Phillips would have the best shot at the 6th spot. Maybe those points have been obvious in camp, but I haven't had a chance to check much of the camp coverage yet, so those items jumped out to me.

No one is giving Zay a pass. If he doesn't progress this season, he won't be around long. But many of us saw progression in his game last year and feel he gets another year to prove it. So, we'll wait and see, hoping he takes that next step (year three can be a big jump for some WRs). But to not understand why people like Zay and not OBJ seems a little delusional. With OBJ, it's not just one arrogant comment in one article, it's many comments and many articles, and interviews, and actions over and over again that make him seem arrogant, a diva, a me-first kind of guy. And I think the Bills/Giants game that another poster referred to was the game where he threw punches at Bills players. Twice in that same game, he punched a Bills player on the field and then ran and hid behind some of his teammates. That is both unsportsmanlike and cowardly at the same time. If it was just one comment, one time from OBJ, it would be forgiven by most, but he has continually displayed behavior that a lot of people just don't like or find mature. With Zay, however, it was just one mistake. It was a good kid making one bad decision. From everything I can tell of the situation, it wasn't mental health issues or some prima dona tantrum, it looks like he tried synthetic marajuana. Some people react like that to it. There was the other former Bill (I think a lineman), who was found out walking in a field naked after using it, etc. Zay is a good kid who made a mistake. He is all about the team and has not shown any other bad behavior, outside of that one incident, he's well like in the locker room, etc. With OBJ, the behavior has been consistent. To compare the two in that way is a huge stretch. And call it loser mentality, if you will, but some of us fans still want to like the players we root for and we root for our guys to get better. And you can have the best of both worlds. Look at the 90s Bills. We loved those guys and they were winners. They weren't choir boys, but they were all about team, community, family, etc. And its been said over and over again, you have to take into account where the Bills were at the 2017 draft. Lame duck GM, new coach who doesn't know his team yet and who will basically be drafting players without a true GM cohort, in a draft that was, by most accounts, not a good QB draft, with possibly the best QB draft in years coming the following season. You may have liked and wanted Mahomes, but it should also be understandable why the Bills didn't want to take a shot at their franchise QB under all of those circumstances that year. At that time, it probably seemed like the smartest move was to wait for the following year to go after their QB. And some in this thread have already inducted Mahomes into the Hall of Fame. Let's at least see how his second year as starter goes first, shall we. I too think he's going to be a very good QB for years to come, but if you think he's going to throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs every year...well, it just ain't going to happen. Only 11 times have QBs thrown for more than 5,000 yards (Brees the only one to do it more than once) and only 3 times has a QB thrown for 50 TDs (Peyton and Brady the other two). To think Mahomes is going to continue at last year's pace, just isn't realistic. If he did, he's automatically the greatest QB of all time, without question. So, he's almost guaranteed to take at least a little step back. If we're really going to compare Mahomes and Allen, we have to see at least two more seasons to even start to make a fair assessment. So, there doesn't seem to be any point to moaning about it now. There just isn't enough evidence to make any type of definitive statement about it currently, so why keep harping on it? As to the OP and the 2017 draft, yes, White and Milano look to be great picks. I still think Dawkins was too. He played really well his rookie year, with solid vets around him. Last year, he admitted that he took his foot off the pedal a bit (thinking he'd arrived) and there was absolutely no leadership in the OL room to not let him do that. Plus, he was playing next to weaker or inexperienced talent, which doesn't help. You can't underestimate what losing Wood and Incognito did to last year's team, especially for Dawkins. He has rededicated himself and I think he will prove to be at least an above average LT, even if he never becomes say a top 5 or top 10 guy. I think he'll have a good season this year. And as I said above, I haven't given up on Zay yet. He gets one more year to prove it. And Jason Croom was an undrafted rookie in 2017, not much yet, but he has flashed a bit. There is still a chance he turns into something, even though the TE room suddenly looks very crowded. Not a bad draft for a first time head coach with no real GM at the time.

The call was very close and probably could have gone either way. More often than not, they probably don't call that. But, by the letter of the law, I do think it was a foul. If you pause the video at the exact moment that he makes contact, his left foot is about one foot from the goal line (which you can see because it has been cleared off). When his foot next moves, it is on the goal line. So, at best, his back (right) foot could have been on or near the the one yard line, but the majority of his body had to be beyond the one yard line. It was a clear pick play. He wasn't going out for a pattern, he was there to pick the defenders off. I believe the one yard rule is really to allow a WR to block on a running play, not to allow pick plays (as long as its near the line of scrimmage). So, by both the letter and the spirit of the law, it was probably the right call, even if the refs often don't make that call on similar plays.

A few things about the article and/or posts in this thread... 1. I'd only be mad if Kelly wasn't on the list at all. As others said, it's somewhat subjective. I'd have him a bit higher, but this list is obviously weighing Super Bowl wins as one of the most significant factors. 2. The idea that the NFC was great and the AFC was pathetic during the Bills Super Bowl runs is actually a fallacy. The Bills also dominated the NFC in the regular season during those years and the records of the AFC vs. NFC were pretty even. It was just that during the Super Bowl years, the NFC had, say 2 or 3 of the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFL (the Bills being the lone AFC team) each year. But it wasn't like the NFC was stacked top to bottom and the AFC was pathetic. It was actually pretty even outside of those few dominant teams winning Super Bowls. The Bills may have had, say, one easier playoff game each season than their NFC opponent, but it's not like they had a cakewalk thru the season, while the NFC teams were playing All-Star rosters every week. And the Bills did beat the Giants in the regular season the same year as they lost the Super Bowl to them, they beat Dallas in the regular season between their two Super Bowl loses to them, they beat the 49ers in the regular season during their prime, etc. It's not like the Bills beat up on terrible AFC teams, but couldn't also beat the cream of the crop of the NFC (unfortunately, just not in the Super Bowls). 3. The idea that Marv Levy was a bad coach or even just not that good, has to be put to bed also. Yes, that team was stacked with talent, but there were also a ton of egos. Levy led those men and got them all pulling in the same direction, playing as a team and family. A lot of coaches wouldn't have been able to pull it off with that bunch. The NFL has seen a lot of very talented teams that didn't win squat because they couldn't come together. Coaching is a hell of a lot more than just Xs and Os. And for all of the Levy getting outcoached talk, he was two feet away from beating two genius coaches (Parcells and Bellichick) in a Super Bowl. And if you say it's only because the Bills had more talent, well, I would again point out the week 15 game in that same season where the Bills won a hard fought 17-13 game against those same G-Men. Those teams were actually very evenly matched. Or if the Giants were so devoid of talent that year, how did they beat Montana and Rice's 49ers in the NFC Championship game? And a last point on talent level, in 1990, the Bills had 5 first team All Pros, the Giants had 4 1st team All Pros (Bills had 3 second teamers, Giants had 2 second teamers). The Bills had 10 Pro Bowlers, the Giants had 8 Pro Bowlers. Not that big of a gap. As for Washington in the 3rd Super Bowl, what can you say but they were a team of destiny that year. And although I hate to admit it, Dallas was just a better team than the Bills by the last two Super Bowls. But, other than the Super Bowls, Levy won a hell of a lot of games, a bad coach doesn't do that even with a talented team. In his 11 full seasons with the Bills, his winning percentage was 63%. He is 21st in overall wins by an NFL coach, 11th in playoff wins, and tied for 4th in most conference championships. And don't tell me it's just because the Bills had a lot of talent. On lists of great NFL teams, those Bills teams don't even make the top 25. Every great team had a lot of talent and every coach considered to be great, had great talent. Marv was a damn good coach. 4. Players I think are too high on that QB list: R. Staubach, A. Rodgers, T. Aikman, R. Wilson, B. Roethlisberger, K. Warner. (Aikman shouldn't even be on the list, as others said, let alone top 15. He was a good QB on an amazing team, not a great QB.) 5. And no love for Dan Fouts or Philip Rivers? Is there some anti-San Diego bias? ?

One play CAN make someone legendary. History and sports history is littered with people who became legendary for doing one thing. The reason the Lett play can be considered by some as making Don Beebe a Bills legend is because that play was a symbol of that teams perseverance, resiliency, effort, and never quit attitude. It embodied Marv's reading of the Scottish poem to his team after the first Super Bowl loss: "Fight on, my men," says Sir Andrew Barton, "I am hurt, but I am not slain; I'll lay me down and bleed a while, And then I'll rise and fight again." Sometimes a symbolic moment or being a metaphor, makes one legendary just as much as stats. Plus, Beebe was a part of that team and family for the entire run. Came in 1989 (the first year the team was good, the bickering Bills, etc.) and was there for the entire Super Bowl(s) run (left in 1994). He was one of THE guys. And just because he didn't have huge stats, doesn't mean he wasn't an important part of the team. First of all, he was on a team of All Pros and Hall of Famers. There were only so many balls to go around. Plus, you don't think the threat of his speed helped open the middle of the field for Andre and Thurman? In 1991, he had 7 TDs (1 in the playoffs). In 1992, he had 2 playoff TDs. He had 21 TDs overall for the Bills. That's not a gaudy number, by any means, but it is a pretty significant contribution to a stacked team vying for Super Bowls. Anyhow, depending on your definition of "legend" (as other have pointed out), you may or may not consider Don Beebe a legend. But, there is definitely no need to belittle his contributions to the franchise and that team. If nothing else, Beebe is a true Buffalo Bill. And that's good enough for me.

This is not gospel of course, as every team is different (in where their talent is allocated and what offensive and defensive schemes they run), but the article linked below at least gives a basic breakdown for a base offense/base 4-3 defense (kind of an average): Offensive side of the football: (24 total players on 53-man roster: 2 QBs, 4 RBs, 9 OLs, 3 TEs, 6 WRs) Defensive side of the football: (26 total players on 53-man roster: 9 DLs, 7 LBs, 10 DBs---6 CBs, 4 S) Special Teams: (3 total players on 53-man roster, game-day roster 1 K, 1 P, 1 LS) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl?report=reader I think we could probably go with 8 DL and 6 LB this year to keep an extra RB (Yeldon) and TE (Croom). So, 26 on offense, 24 on defense. So, from this guys 53 man roster, I would Add: Croom, Yarbrough, Stanford, Pitts, and Bush Drop: McKenzie, Sweeney (PS), Love (PS), J. Johnson (PS), C. Thompson (PS) [Unless any of the late round rookies really show out in training camp, passing a vet, I think its practice squad for a number of them. 6th and 7th round rookies are not locks anymore, just because they were drafted] Also on the outside looking in: S. Perry, D. Johnson (PS), E. Harold To me, it looks like the big decisions will come with the numbers at RB, TE, and DL this year. He has also had 8 fumbles (though only 3 of them were lost), over his two years in Denver and Buffalo. I assume that includes his return touches, which would make that 8 fumbles in 85 total touches (rush, rec, returns). McKenzie's value to the team last year was speed, special teams return work, and jet sweeps and slot work on the offense. I think John Brown could run the jet sweeps, Beasley and Zay take care of any slot duty, and Andre Roberts is a better return man who handles both punt and kickoff. And Foster and Brown are our speed guys. Heck even Zay is close with McKenzie (McKenzie ran a 4.42 40-yard dash at combine, Zay had a 4.45). I agree, I just don't know where McKenzie contributes this year.

Or maybe he took some ballet lessons. It's a nice 4th position.

Let's face it, Barkley is going to be the #2. Anderson was not going to see the field this year. I think what was great for Josh was when he got hurt last year, he got to see Derek run a week of practice, how to interact with the other players, etc. That wasn't going to happen this year. And with Dorsey here, they don't need DA as much for the coaching the kid up part, in the meeting room or on game day. Plus Josh isn't a rookie anymore. He still has a lot to learn, but he's been through a full season now and isn't quite as raw. And although Barkley hasn't had a lot of playing time in the league, he will be a 5th year vet this year. So he's got some experience as far as being a sounding board for Josh. But what I think the team needs more than DA's presence is his roster spot. There are going to be some tough decisions at RB, WR, OL, etc. That extra roster spot allows them to keep one more player somewhere else. Hopefully you can stash Tyree on the practice squad and you only call him up this year if there is an injury. And as far as a 4th arm for camp, they can grab anyone, an NFL QB not on a roster or an UDRFA who hasn't been snatched up by a team yet. There are lots of both of those types. The guy won't make the roster, so there are plenty of options if you just need an arm to play with your 3rd or 4th team WRs, etc. If this was totally Anderson's decision (and not the team saying thanks but we won't need you this year), then it is probably a blessing in disguise.

Besides still having something left in the tank, as many of us have argued about Shady, the reason you keep him around is because he has become a team leader. He's never going to be a Kyle Williams-type of leader, that's not his personality. But, for a guy that at times in his career may have been perceived as a bit of a selfish guy (right or wrong), he has turned it around in Buffalo: voted a team captain, quickly built a great relationship with Josh, didn't complain about the team or line last year, and even when he was injured and the Bills had no shot at the playoffs, he was a great cheerleader...still involved in the game, running out to celebrate with players when they made a great play, etc. It is really important for the best players on your team to be totally bought in. And Shady is. First year in Buffalo, Shady obviously wasn't thrilled to be here. Going into his second year, he accepted his situation and started to like Buffalo and rededicated himself to the team and the process. But for me, I feel like there was one moment when Shady became a true Buffalo guy. (I may be mythologizing this a bit, but whatever.) It was his overtime TD for the win in the snow game. He scored the TD with his momentum carrying him towards the wall of the stands. But he stopped himself short of the wall and kind of just waved to the crowd (like there was still a literal and emotional distance between him and the fans---it was like he wanted to run over and embrace them, but didn't quite know how). Then his teammates mauled him, pushing him towards the fans and then the players and fans celebrated like mad with Shady in the middle of it all. I always feel like that was the moment that the last of Shady's walls fell and he became a true Buffalo guy. And I love McDermott as a coach (perfect guy for Buffalo), but one of the best things about hiring him was that he brought Brandon Beane with him. Beane is worth his weight in gold. To finally have a competent front office feels soooo good.

How can you even take that list seriously? Goff at #5 over Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan, and Big Ben Trubisky at #13 Prescott at #17 Jameis Winston at #21 (above Allen, Carr, Flacco, Garappolo...does he really think Arians can make Winston into something he isn't?) Jackson and Rosen ahead of Allen I know he's looking at the entire QB room, but is Jackson/RG III better than Allen/Barkley/Anderson/Tyree? Does having Blaine Gabbert as a backup really propel Winston over the guys I mentioned above? Does having Blake Bortles as a backup really put Goff ahead of Brady and Brees? This list is a joke.

Was originally going to argue for the velocity issue, but watching the drops video, I now agree that velocity really wasn't the issue (on Josh's end). And after watching last year, I really don't think he has an accuracy issue, except as LSHMEAB pointed out (bolded statement above). That was the only place where I felt he showed inaccuracy, on the dump offs But, even though velocity wasn't the issue, I wonder how much was just chemistry. Last offseason, the number one receivers were practicing much more with Peterman and even McCarron (neither of whom have a strong arm) rather than Josh. Josh's ball gets there a lot more quickly, and a good number of the drops came on scramble or out of the pocket plays (which are unpredictable), etc. So, although the drops were still inexcusable (as the majority were catchable balls), it may be partially due to a lack of chemistry, knowing how each other plays, how fast the ball will get there, the exact placement of the ball, etc. For instance, Foster had a better rapport with Josh early, but they practiced more together on the third team in the offseason. And as the season went on Zay and Josh seemed to be more on the same page (but it took time). Every QBs ball is different, so even if it wasn't a velocity issue on Josh, maybe it was partially an over all chemistry/continuity issue. Can't wait to see the improvement with both the new additions and with Josh having an entire offseason where he is the man and the WRs are practicing with him exclusively. And just out of curiosity, I watched the drops video again to tally up who had how many drops. I would note that there were 2-3 pass interferences not called (would have been hard for the WR to catch because they were being interfered with) and I would say 3-4 passes, while catchable, would have been pretty phenomenal catches (and therefore understandable that they missed on those). But the final tally is: 34 total drops in the video: Zay: 8 drops Benjamin: 5 drops McKenzie: 5 drops Foster: 3 drops Thompson: 3 drops Holmes: 2 drops Clay: 2 drops Murphy: 2 drops Taiwan: 1 drop Shady: 1 drop Logan Thomas: 1 drop ( there was one play I couldn't tell who it was---maybe Zay or McKenzie)

We have a pretty good WR corps right now. The only thing that everyone seems to think we are missing is that true #1 type receiver. None of the WRs in this year's draft had that true #1 receiver label. So, why waste a pick on a WR who is projected to be a slot guy (as some of the top WRs in the draft were slated as) since we already have Beasley. Why waste a pick on a speed guy, since we have Brown and Foster. If there was a true #1 WR in the draft, I bet Beane would have gone out of his way to get him, but that just wasn't this draft. You don't grab a WR just to say we drafted a WR. To all of the fans who were upset that the Bills didn't draft a WR in the 3rd to 7th rounds I ask, where was a WR in those rounds that would be a true #1 WR (if there was one he would have been drafted by someone earlier---rounds 1 or 2)? Anyone selected that late in the draft wouldn't have cracked the starting lineup, so why waste a pick on one. And as for Metcalf, McDermott said it in his post draft wrap up, "I hate the word potential." These guys like to draft players that have proven it at the collegiate level, with 2-4 years of solid production. As to the OP's point and posted article though, yes, I feel bad for kids like Metcalf who get their hopes of being a high draft pick pumped up by the media, when it just isn't a reality.

Sorry iinii, I didn't mean to come off so righteous...and it was kind of meant tongue in cheek, at least the part about your grandfather. I'm sure he was a good man.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but your grandpappy was wrong ? (to take it to an extreme) is your honor and integrity for sale? Is someone's loyalty for sale? Are your children for sale? Some things are not negotiable. Shady will be a Bill in 2019. As to the 30-year old RB wall, yes, it is legitimate. RBs on average do significantly decline starting at age 28 for normal backs and around 30 for elite backs. But, averages are just that. It means there are exceptions to those averages, otherwise the averages would be even lower. Since 1990, 31 RBs have had a 1,000 yard season over the age of 30. So, on average, at least one 30-plus-year old RB each season has a 1,000 yard year. AP did it last year at 33 years old. Frank Gore did it in 2016 at age 33 (and followed it up in 2017 with 961 yards at age 34). Tiki Barber had his two best seasons as a pro at age 30 and 31 (going for 1860 and 1662 yards respectively). Our own Fred Jackson had 1,277 yards from scrimmage at age 32 and 1,027 yards from scrimmage at age 33. Emmitt Smith had 937 yards and 9 TDs at age 35. All I'm saying is that to claim Shady is done with no evidence besides his age seems ridiculous. Our line stunk last year. Our backs were consistently met 2-3 yards in the backfield all season long. The only reason Ivory looked better at times is because he is a plow ahead runner. So, he took what was available. Shady on the other hand was always trying to make something happen, but when the entire line is breaking down, there is no where to go. So, you can blame him for trying to make too much happen last year and not just taking the meager gains that were there, but I saw no evidence that he lost a step. When he did get to the open field, he didn't look slow, he hadn't lost his juke moves. If Ivory was the better back, then why is he gone and Shady still here? If the O-line wasn't the problem, then why did they just completely overhaul it? And that is not even to mention our QB situation. Every team we faced for at least the first 8-10 games stacked the box because they knew we didn't have a passing game. To lay all of that at Shady's feet seems to be lacking a full picture of what was going on. Plus the reason so many backs slow down at that age (28-30) is not just because they get slower, but because of the serious pounding that workhorse backs take over the years. The body starts to break down overall. And as has been said many a times, Shady is a back who has avoided a lot of that heavy pounding due to his running style. He hasn't taken the big shots over the years, pounding into the line over and over. I just see no evidence that he is done yet. Plus, having Gore and Yeldon should keep all three backs fresh. Shady won't be asked to be the lone workhorse. They don't need him to have a 1,600 yard season. How about 1,000 for Shady; 600 for Gore; and 400 for Yeldon, or something like that. Provided the line comes together, I think Shady will have a very productive year and our running game will creep back into the top 5 in the league. Top 10 rushing seasons by a 30+ RB Player Yr. Age Team Yds. Tiki Barber '05 30 NYG 1,860 Curtis Martin '04 31 NYJ 1,697 Walter Payton '84 30 CHI 1,684 Tiki Barber '06 31 NYG 1,662 Corey Dillon '04 30 NWE 1,635 Walter Payton '85 31 CHI 1,551 Barry Sanders '98 30 DET 1,491 Priest Holmes '03 30 KAN 1,420 Warrick Dunn '05 30 ATL 1,416 Thomas Jones '09 31 NYJ 1,402

It's hyperbole...and its good. Last draft, I didn't have a favorite of the four QBs. I was a little down on Rosen because of the rumored attitude, but was not even opposed to him. I just wanted the Bills to get one of the top four, preferably Mayfield, Darnold, or Allen. But Josh Allen and Buffalo was Kismet. First of all, he actually wanted to get drafted by the Bills, but also because of his small town, blue collar mentality. Then there's his leadership (he already has the entire locker room fully behind him, including the older vets). He's humble but also has a bit of cocky confidence and I love his competitive drive to win and be great. The resiliency he showed in both getting to Wyoming (sending out letters to D-1 schools when he wasn't recruited) and then playing at Wyoming is so Buffalo. Plus he played in a lot of bad weather in Wyoming. The football gods finally smiled down on Buffalo. We maybe didn't get the QB we wanted (depending on who you were pulling for), but we got the QB that we needed. My name is Folz and I have Josh Allen Obsessive Disorder.

It's a good signing for the Pats, but still a big step down from Gronk in receiving and blocking. So nothing to worry about. He'll get his share of balls, but will never be someone you have to specifically gameplan for.

I know you're just denoting that those refs actually got caught on mic, so it is not a theory...but as a side note, conspiracy theory is a phrase that was created to keep people from looking into actual conspiracies. Just because someone labels something a conspiracy theory doesn't mean that there isn't actual proof of a conspiracy.

It feels like you're looking at the situation with no context at all. You have to weigh in the money available last year, what they were trying to do (position themselves for one of the top 3 QBs), the player's and the team's situation, etc. For instance, your statement about McCarron above makes it sound like the Bills were all in on McCarron (he's our guy) and then suddenly decided they weren't. You have to remember what the QB market was last year. There were a number of decent QBs available and a lot of QB hungry teams. Knowing they were all in on drafting one of the top QBs, they weren't going to get into a bidding war for players like Cousins or Keenum, etc. and when the dust settled, McCarron was kind of last man standing, so they signed him to a backup QB level deal. They maybe hoped he could be that veteran leader and maybe a bridge QB until the rookie was ready, but when he couldn't beat out Peterman and wouldn't be a great mentor (because he still wanted to start), they shipped him away. It's not like they pegged him as a top FA that they had to have, took a huge swing on him, and whiffed. And obviously Beane is willing to go for some low risk, high reward players on short deals (older players, or guys coming off of injury, but who have been productive or have big time potential). Obviously you're not going to hit on all of those guys, that's why they are a risk. But when you do, it is an incredible bargain. Now with Vontae last year, the mistake wasn't signing him, the mistake was not having a viable backup for him. But as you can see, this year, now that they have money to spend, they are trying to create depth and competition at every position. And you keep saying 0-9 last UFA season. What about Star and Chris Ivory. Ivory wasn't brought in to be an all-star RB, he was brought in to be a backup and a bulldozer and he did just that. If you want to note production stats, I'd say look at the offensive line, which was more of the running game problem than Ivory or Shady's age. And what are they doing this offseason? Oh yeah, they're rebuilding the offensive line. And Star played well last year, so not sure how he isn't at least a 1 in your equation. Trent Murphy has to be an incomplete grade, not a zero. Let's see what he does this year when he isn't injured. I'm not saying Beane and Co. didn't have their share of whiffs in free agency last year, but you have to look at the context of the situation and what they are trying to do to fix it this year, now that they have the assets. And even look at the players individually and their situation. Like bringing in Coleman. That didn't hurt the team in the least. They took a chance on him at very low risk and it didn't work out, so you move on. They knew it was a 50/50 proposition that it would work out. They didn't plan the rest of the team around him or anything, expecting a certain amount of production. But you, I'm sure, add that to the "0-9" (bad GM) category. I'm glad our GM takes shots like that. Another factor that is far too often forgotten, is the retirement of Eric Wood and Ritchie Incognito. The team expected to have both of them last year. Once they retired, it was a terrible draft for offensive linemen (not to mention all of their draft capital was focused on QB) and they didn't have the cash to go after a big name center or guard. So, you bring in a guy like Bodine, who was serviceable. But again, you would add that to the bad move category, despite them not having many other options due to the surprise nature of the retirements. Think of how much better the offense would have been last year with Eric and Ritchie on the line. More context. And a lot of the FAs they signed the last two years were signed as one year players, just to fill out the roster and get us through the season (knowing they were just ok players), because that's what they could afford. I mean are you including guys like Rafael Bush and Kaelin Clay in that 0-9? These guys were brought in as insurance policies, not to be starters. The plan was always to keep upgrading those positions as soon as it was possible. You can't rebuild an entire team in one or even two offseasons, especially when a team is in "cap jail." It's hard to believe you could be so staunchly against this regime when, even if they miss on some of these current free agents, they are at least trying their hardest to field a competitive team and one that is fun to root for because of the culture they have fostered. They appear to have a plan. They are building depth. They are managing the cap properly. I'm not saying its a guarantee that they make us a perennial playoff team, but I find it hard not to be hopeful/at least somewhat optimistic when it appears that this team has more focus and direction than anytime since Polian/Butler and Marv/Wade. And I love that EJ is back btw!

Honestly, I can understand people being down on Zay, as he has not lived up to his draft status yet. I just personally think he deserves one more year to prove it. He did improve from year 1 to year 2. And he wasn't meant to come in and be a #1 receiver in the league, but circumstances forced him into that role, which also meant that he was going against the best corners and maybe getting double teams before he was ready for that level. (And don't get me started again about the poor coaching he received.) Yes, a player like JuJu is way ahead of Zay right now, but how much easier was life for JuJu with HOFer AB on the opposite side of the field drawing all of the attention (not to mention having a HOF QB throwing to him instead of the likes of Tyrod, Peterman, Anderson, Barkley, and rookie Allen). I just think he deserves a year where the QB play and O-line play is better. And where there are other viable receivers, so he doesn't get all of the attention. How can you totally judge a 1st or 2nd year guy under the circumstances that Zay was in. I think you give him one more year in an actually viable offense before you ship him away. I also remember after his rookie year, I made a post reviewing all of his "drops." And so many of them were just horrible throws by Tyrod. He definitely had some drops, but it wasn't as bad as it first appeared. But, what I was really responding to was the idea that McKenzie is "obviously" ahead of Zay on the depth chart. I guarantee you that the Bills coaches and FO do not see it that way. As far as speed and skills, here are Zay and McKenzie's combine numbers: McKenzie Jones 40-yard dash: 4.42 4.45 Vertical: 36" 36.5" Broad jump: 123" 133" 3-cone: 6.14 6.79 shuttle: 4.15 4.01 It's not like McKenzie is some amazing athlete and Zay is some slow, lumbering oaf. Plus, there is the production thus far: Zay: 83 rec. 968 yards 9 TDs 1 fumble (in 2 years) McK: 22 rec 208 yards 0 TDs 8 fumbles (in 3 years) (although he does have the 70 yards rushing with 2 TDs) But, how does 22 receptions and 11 carries total in 3 years in the NFL make him a lock for any team? Especially when so few touches (his touches also includes 52 returns) include 8 fumbles? That's 1 fumble every 9.4 touches. Plus he too had some big drops last year. You can be as fast as you want, but if you can't hang onto the ball, you'll be on the bench or out of the league. There is just no way that McKenzie is ahead of Zay on the depth chart.