folz

I'll stick up for Jets fans a bit. I live in NYC (and have for many years). I go to the Jets/Bills game at the Meadowlands every year and I've never had any problems (win or lose), despite always being decked out in Bills gear and cheering loudly. I've also had many Jets fans as friends over the years, and until Josh came along, we basically just commiserated with each other over how bad our teams were. And yes, most of the Giants fanbase comes from northern New Jersey, Conn, and Upstate NY (north of the City up to say Albany/Syracuse...though I think the Bills have been encroaching on that NY territory over the last few years). Most Jets fans are from the City proper (Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn...maybe Staten Island, but who knows, that's like a different world) and Long Island. The Jets fans are die-hards for their team, they complain about the team all of the time (well deserved), but they never jump ship...you gotta appreciate that when they haven't had much to celebrate. As to a rivalry, well, it seems that individual games can be difficult and physical because we are in the same division, fighting for the same crown, but there has been very little what you would consider rivalry types of games and situations over the years because the teams just haven't been good at the same time. In 65 years, the Bills and Jets have only both had a winning record in four seasons total (1981, 1988, 1998, and 2004). Yes, in the 80s, there was maybe a bit of a rivalry (the early 80s teams---Chuck Knox vs. the Sack Exchange, or winning our first division title in so many years over the Jets later in the 80s, etc.). But, overall, there has never been many story lines between the teams to make them rivals (other than being division opponents). I feel for Jets fans, we think we have been through some hard times... In 65 years, the Jets have had only 20 winning seasons, they have only had 3 seasons in 65 years that they had more than 10 wins. They have made the playoffs 14 times. They won the AFL Championship game and Super Bowl in 1968. Since then (56 years), 4 AFC Championship game appearances (no wins). In comparison, in 65 years, the Bills have had 29 winning seasons, with 12 years with more than 10 wins. The Bills have made the playoffs 24 times. 3 AFL Championship games (2 AFL Championship wins), 7 AFC Championship appearances (4 wins), 4 Super Bowl appearances (all losses). They've had a lot less to cheer for than us over the years, despite the Bills having so many down years and eras themselves. Overall head-to-head: Bills lead series 71-58 (55% of the wins to the Bills), but, since 2012, the Bills have won 17 of the last 25 games (68%).

Again, I did not see any Ravens players "engage" or "taunt" the fans before the fan pushed DHop. I mean, how did they "engage" the fans, just by being near the wall? I'd have to watch it again to see if Lamar said something to the fan after the fan pushed DHop, but Lamar did not then engage him physically until after the fan had also pushed Lamar in the head. And note that the push was in the side/back of Lamar's head, which means Lamar was actually walking past the fan, not engaging with him (even after the push of DHop). And I have no problem with people saying that Lamar should not have pushed back (or should be fined)...I mean that is the rule on both sides. Fans should not be touching the players (or face ejection) and the players should not be touching the fans (or face fines). I just don't fault Lamar that much. It was a heat of the moment type of thing, which we have all fallen prey to at times in our lives. Now if he started throwing haymakers or jumped into the stands, that would be one thing, but it was a push in the heat of the moment AFTER a fan shoved two players in the head unwarrantedly. This was all on the Bills fan, not the Ravens, imo.

The Ravens were not taunting, they were celebrating an amazing catch and TD by a great player in his first game with the team. It was his first reception as a Raven and a spectacular one at that, in a BIG game. The Ravens' players just followed DHop, who ended up near the stands, to celebrate with him. Before the first push by the fan, I do not see any Ravens players engaging with the Bills fans in any way (talking, jawing, pointing...nothing). They are just running after DHop to celebrate with him, as teammates should.

I'm wondering if it is a stat that over a period of time may be more accurate than looking at a single game only. Meaning you could statistically have a game where it looks incorrect (on which QB was better), but in the long run it balances out a bit. I went to look at the QBRs from last season, assuming Josh might be lower than I would expect. But in 2024, Lamar and Josh were tied for the best QBR at 74.8 each (the two MVP candidates). Joe Burrow was 3rd and Jayden Daniels was 4th. In 2023, Brock Purdy had the best QBR at 72.8. Dak was second, Josh 3rd, Lamar 4th, Herbert 5th. In 2022, Mahomes was #1 at 79.0, then Josh, Tua, Hurts, and Goff. (Lamar was 9 and Burrow 10 in 2022). In 2021, it was Rodgers at 74.1, followed by Brady, Herbert, Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. I personally never really look at or use this stat (QBR), but again, wondering if it is more accurate over a larger sample size than one game. Because looking at the lists for the last four years, it does seem like generally, the best QBs of that season did end up with the higher QBRs.

I really hope Lamar does not get fined for it. If he does, the Mafia should raise the money to pay for it. 😁 Lamar didn't go all Muhammad Ali on him, he just shoved him back (as that fan deserved). Thinking that you have some sort of immunity as a fan to do something like that is ridiculous (that kid would be soiling his pants if he actually had to square off against Lamar or Deandre in the parking lot). I know there are rules about the players not engaging...but they are human too.

Great win for the Bills, Western New York, and All Bills fans! Just WOW! Instant Classic (even more so because it's the last opener in Rich stadium)! Love this team! Josh was out of this world alien-level in the 4th quarter. But, something happened in this game that was encouraging...guys other than Josh stepping up in the right moments/clutch time. Oliver coming up with a big 3rd down sack when we desperately needed a stop, and then causing the Derrick Henry fumble---game changing plays. The big catches by Joshua Palmer and Jackson Hawes. Keon coming up with the tipped TD catch---I'm pretty sure that Josh was targeting Shakir, it was way over Knox's head, he shouldn't have reached for it, but heads up by Keon, being Johnny on the spot, with a great effort and catch. Benford with a couple of big third down tackles late in the game. And the everyone eats philosophy continues, with 9 different players catching a pass from Josh tonight (would have been 10 players if Ty Johnson could have held on to one of his two targets---that would-be TD throw from Josh was perfect). Yes, the defense looked rough at times, but a lot of that is Derrick Henry. He has been causing us problems since his Tennessee days. Just a special player who matches up well against our defensive style. The good thing is that Barkley may be the only other back in the league that could match up similarly, so... Plus, it stands to reason that this defense will improve as the year goes on: getting Tre and Hairston back, getting the suspended DTs back, getting Cole and the rookies more playing time, getting the new guys (Bosa, etc.) acclimated. Plus, they have been tweaking things a bit in the pass rush and using more man coverage, etc. Not great tonight, but give it time to gel. They did come up with the stops when they absolutely had to, in crunch time. So that's a big positive. And I think this is a great game to acclimate all of the new guys into the fold/culture. It was fun to see how excited Palmer was to make that big catch on the last drive, or to see Bosa on the sidelines at the end in joyous disbelief, or Prater smiling as his teammates hoisted him up after the game winning field goal. And Jackson Hawes making that huge, bobbled catch. This game will go a long way in the team chemistry department. Just an awesome night! Go Bills!

Just as Bellichick's record is as good as it is because of Brady and Reid's record is as good as it is because of Patrick Mahomes and Donovan McNabb and Shula's record is as good as it is because of Unitas and Marino and Walsh's record is as good as it is because of Montana and... well, you get the picture. If you are trying to say that McDermott would be terrible (would always have a mediocre or losing record) without Josh, I think you are dead wrong. But, yes, of course his record is better with Josh than it would be without Josh---but then you could say that about any coach that had one or more HOF QBs.

Allen Oliver Coleman Benford And welcome to Buffalo Matt Prater, Jackson Hawes, and Joshua Palmer. All had big plays to make the comeback happen. Loved to see how excited and happy Bosa and Prater were after the win. I think this game/big win will really help the new guys settle into the culture more quickly.

How about that Sunday night opener of the 2025 season (the last opener in Rich/Ralph Wilson/The Ralph/New Era/Highmark Stadium). Remember how crazy that was. Down 40-25 with seven minutes to go in the 4th quarter. And with a Derrick Henry fumble caused by Ed Oliver, Josh led an amazing comeback to win 41-40, on a last second, run-on/run-off field goal by Matt Prater. One of the opening day classics for the Bills. 😉

You guys keep saying 7 years with one of the best QBs ever, etc. And I will continue to retort with context. Do you not remember 2017-2019? It wasn't that long ago. It was a team in total rebuild. It was a miracle that they made the playoffs in 2017 with that roster, and you know what? The 2018 roster got even worse as Beane cleared the cap. Yes, Josh came in in 2018, and we as Bills fans saw the flashes right away (particularly that Minnesota game), but Josh was EXTREMELY RAW as a QB prospect. Do you not remember how many people doubted Josh, said he was terrible, pointed to his completion percentage, turnovers, and boneheaded plays when he was playing "hero ball" in his first few years? Josh did not come in as a HOF player, it took time to develop him. And not only did this regime pick him and have confidence in him (when almost the entire football world, including MANY Bills fans, had already written him off), they developed him and had the right culture for Josh to succeed in, etc. But, let's just discount all of that. Josh came into his own in 2020 and started playing like one of the best QBs in the league. But, he was still learning and growing. 2020/2021 were the years that defenses started running a lot of cover zero, etc. against the Bills and Chiefs, to slow down Mahomes and Allen. It took a little while for both QBs to learn and grow from that---to take what the defense gives them, short passes, dump offs, rather than going for home runs. Josh had to learn patience and how to manage the offense better. There was also a season, I can't remember which, that Josh was having trouble with the long ball and had to work on that. Josh did not come to the Bills fully formed, i.e. Josh was not the Josh of today in his first few years (obviously very few QBs are, the good ones get better, but Josh had a lot further to go than most---of course, he did it in record time---because Josh is Josh, but he had help too). It's crazy to think that McD had a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl with Josh in 2018 and 2019, due to both the overall roster and Josh's development. Not sure you can count those two years as should of, could of. As far as the playoff losses, let's start with Cincinnati (2022 season): You can disagree with me all you like, but imo, I don't think there is any coach who gets that team to the Super Bowl that year. With what happened to Damar, the Christmas blizzard, and the injuries (on top of everything else that happened that season---I won't go through them all) that team wasn't going anywhere even if Andy Reid, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Bill Bellichick, and Vince Lombardi were coaching that team. They just had nothing left in the tank come playoff time. They aren't robots. 2019: Houstion. Josh and the team were definitely not Super Bowl caliber yet. We were still rebuilding and Josh was still learning and growing. In 2020, we made it to the AFC Championship game...we were good, but the talent-level and experience of Kansas City (plus a little help from the refs) was too much. That Bills team was not ready yet, both personnel-wise (we were severely lacking in depth and had some weak starting spots and a banged up receiving corps) and experience-wise (and yes, that includes the head coach and the quarterback...I think they both learned a lot from that game). So, now we get to the 2021, 2023, and 2024 seasons (imo, our best shots at the big dance). Three losses to K.C., two in the divisional round, one in the AFC Championship. At the end of regulation of those three games, the Chiefs were up six points. We basically lost to them by an average of 2 points/game over three games. A dynasty-team that has appeared in 5 of the last 6 Super Bowls, winning three of them. They have been in the AFC Championship Game all seven of the last seven years. And again, if it weren't for the refs, I think we win last year's game. If Bass makes the field goal, we may have won in 2023. If the Bills win the coin toss in 2021, the Bills probably win. I know it's frustrating because of how close we have been, but...we have been that close and still are---year in and year out. The more at bats you have the better your chance of hitting the home run. And this regime is giving us the at bats. One ball bounces our way or a little luck from the football gods and we'll reach the promised land. Stats are good for showing trends and averages, but no stat is an absolute predictor. A stat like "never has a Coach/Qb combo been together for 5 years and won a Super Bowl," or whatever is only a stat until it isn't a stat. Every record in sports eventually gets broken. That stat does not mean it can't or won't ever happen. Plus, as my post is stating, you have to look at context. Each situation is unique. Did a coach step into a team with an 8-year vet HOF QB and an already established organizational culture and a good roster? Or a raw rookie QB on a rebuilding team, etc. Context matters. Also, I highly doubt that if we made a Super Bowl and lost, that the anti-McD and/or anti-Beane fans would be happy. They would probably be calling for their heads even louder. "You see, McD can't win the big game, he plays not to lose, etc." And finally, as has been pointed out many times by many posters, just having a great, HOF-caliber QB (and good coaching) does not guarantee Super Bowl appearances, let alone Lombardi Trophies: Drew Brees (future HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win in 20 years (with Sean Payton as his coach for the majority of his career, a coach that many said they would take over McDermott any day of the week. But by Bills fans' standards, didn't then Payton "waste" Drew Brees' career?). Aaron Rodgers (future HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win in 20 years (with Mike McCarthy his HC for most of his career). Dan Marino (HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance/loss in 17 years (with Don Shula as his HC). Brett Favre (HOF): 2 Super Bowl appearances, one win, one loss in 20 years (Mike Holmgren and Mike Sherman as his main HCs). Steve Young (HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win (as a starter---made a SB in 1990 but as a backup to Montana) in 11 years as a starter. Those aren't just HOF QBs, they are some of the best to ever play (all of them are top 10-12 all time; three of them are probably top 5 all-time). Yet, combined, they have 6 Super Bowl appearances and 4 Super Bowl wins in 88 seasons. Or, in 82 of 88 seasons (93% of their careers), they did not even appear in a Super Bowl. It's just not as easy as some of you guys think, no matter how good your quarterback is.

It's a tie for me...both against the Dolphins: September 7, 1980. First victory against the Dolphins in 21 games---ending the 0-for-the-seventies vs. the Phins. Dolphins led 7-3 at the start of the fourth, but a pair of Bills' touchdowns (by Roosevelt Leaks and Joe Cribbs) in the 4th gave the Bills a 17-7 lead. Jeff Nixon got his third interception of the day with :36 seconds left to seal the deal. And then the fans stormed the field and tore down the goalposts...carrying them around the stadium. September 10, 1989. Dolphins led 24-13 in the 4th quarter. The Bills came back to score two touchdowns: the first, a TD catch by Flip Jonson; the second TD came on the last play of the game---a two-yard QB keeper that Kelly took to the endzone, diving in between two Dolphins defenders as the game clock expired. And then the team piled on Kelly in the end zone in celebration. Bills win in Miami 27-24. Although this wasn't their first year together, they didn't have all of the pieces yet, and they ultimately did not reach the Super Bowl that season, that game down in Miami seemed to be the start of it all, imo, for the "90s" Bills and really set the tone for what was to happen over the next 5-7 years. Honorable mentions: September 7, 2003: Although the season would not turn out the way that first game looked like it might (6-10, no playoffs) and the Pats would get revenge with an exact inverted score of week one in the last game of the season, in the moment, that 31-0 pummeling of the Pats (with newly acquired safety Laywer Malloy) was a lot of fun. Four interceptions of Brady, one being Big Sam's pick-six. Spikes had two INTs, Fletcher had 13 tackles. All just enough for us to get our hopes up for the season...only to be dashed, as only the Bills can do. 2011: Another season that looked all so promising after a 4-1/5-2 start to the season, only to again fall apart (losing 8 of their last 9). But, they opened the season on September 11th in Arrowhead with a 41-7 destruction of the Chiefs. Fitz threw four TDs and Freddie Jackson ran for 112 yards. September 1, 1991: (another Dolphins game) Fresh off their first Super Bowl loss, the Bills came back from a 17-7 deficit to beat Marino and the Dolphins 35-31 in Rich Stadium on opening day of the new season. Kelly threw for 381 yards and Thurman Thomas had 268 yards from scrimmage with 2 TDs. Reed added 154 yards receiving and a TD.

Ha, well that's still real young to me. Yeah, I didn't realize he'd been in the league a few years already. Ok, I like him less as a developmental guy and more as an emergency guy then. 😁

Glad to see Buechele, Gore, Gosnell, Wilkerson, Latu, Ciarlo, and Jenkins make the PS. That was pretty much the preseason guys I liked or thought flashed. Wish Zach Davidson also made the PS. But pretty happy with the depth the PS provides as it is. I wouldn't have minded seeing Shenault and/or Hamler, but think I prefer developing the young guys (Wilkerson and Gosnell). I really like what Wilkerson showed in the preseason: good hands, tough (dirty) catches, etc.

I thought episodes 1 and 2 were pretty dull, but I have enjoyed watching episodes 3 and 4...they have been much better (even if they aren't really digging too deep on anything).

I think the only way they could let Codrington go was if Shenault could also handle punt return duties. I really liked Shenault as a kick returner (and it seemed he offered more at his position than Codrington does at his). But, apparently they weren't sold on him at punt return (he only had one punt return for 7 yards in the pre-season---he has no punt returns in 4 years in the league---not sure how he looked at practice). Plus, it might have been tough to keep 7 receivers---we weren't even sure if they would keep 6. The only reason I thought Codrington might be in trouble is because he was inactive for all 3 playoff games last year...I assume because he wasn't able to also help on defense which was needed due to injuries. We had Davis and Johnson handle KOs and Shakir handle punt duties in the playoffs. But I don't think the team wanted any of those guys doing it all season. Now, I have no problem with Codrington as our returner though, I think he is a very good returner, I was just hoping they could maybe maximize the roster spot if someone or two someones could beat him out (and who might help more at their position duties). And it has been said elsewhere, but why are so many people all of a sudden down on DeWayne Carter? I thought he was starting to come on last year (showing flashes) before the injury. I didn't keep up with camp as much this year as usual (other than watching the preseason games), so is there something I don't know about? Did something happen in camp to make so many people down on a 3rd round pick going into just his second year? None of these cuts were surprises, but these are guys I liked that got cut (along with Big Phil ☺️) Jimmy Ciarlo Frank Gore, Jr. Zach Davidson Shane Buechele Kristian Wilkerson Laviska Shenault (more so for his kick returning than at WR) But hopefully, most of them will make it to the practice squad...so no real loss. Very happy for Shavers!

I'm not knocking Roseman for anything, and I'm not trying to say that Beane is a better overall GM than Roseman---as you said, you can't argue with 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 appearances. I was only saying that the Eagles are not a good comparison when it comes to assessing Beane's drafting, mainly because the Eagles have had more premium picks and a higher-overall draft position (specifically over the last 5 years, but I expanded it to 8 at your request). How they got those picks may indeed have been some savvy GM work (not unlike Beane moving up for Josh), but if you are trying to compare just drafted players to drafted players, who did better, well it's not an apples to apples comparison imo. To be clearer with the data: Over the last eight years (2017-2024): The Eagles have had 58 total picks, with an average draft position of 124. They have had 23 picks in the first three rounds, with an average draft position of 48. The Bills have had 61 total picks, with an average draft position of 136. They have had 24 picks in the first three rounds, with an average draft position of 57. 1st Round 2nd Round 3rd Round Eagles picks 9, 10, 13, 14, 21, 22, 22, 30 37, 40, 43, 49, 51, 53, 53, 57 65, 66, 73, 83, 94, 99, 103 Bills picks 7, 9, 16, 23, 25, 27, 30 33, 37, 38, 54, 59, 60, 61, 63, 63 74, 86, 89, 91, 93, 95, 96, 96 In the first three rounds, the Eagles have picked above the Bills 17 of 24 times (71% of the time). [I bolded the picks where the Bills actually picked higher---and 4 of the 7 are at the end of the third round---and the other 3 picks are only separated by 1 or 2 spots]. If a GM could pick which set of draft picks he'd rather have, they are going to take the Eagles picks. We can argue the amount of an advantage it is, but it is an advantage. And again, if you only look at the last 5 years, when the Eagles acquired most of the "impact" players that people refer to, rather than the last 8 years, the difference in draft position between the two teams is even more pronounced. As I noted before, last 5 years, the Bills highest draft pick was 23. The Eagles had 5 picks better than 23 in that span.

Yes, and in the two years that I didn't include they drafted Tre, Dion, Milano, Taron, Harrison Phillips, Tremaine Edmunds, Siran Neal, Wyatt Teller, oh and a guy named Josh Allen (all guys who are still playing in the league after 7-8 years, six of whom are still with the Bills---and when the average NFL player's career is only 3.3 years). But, I'll add 2017 and 2018 in the comparison with Philadelphia. Over the last eight years (2017-2024), the Eagles average first three picks is 55 and the Bills is 59. But, in 2018, the Eagles did not have a 1st or 3rd round pick (which I assume they traded for a high-end player, such as the Bills trading a 1st for Diggs). So, if I instead changed it to over the last seven years what is the Eagles average draft pick in the first three rounds? It's 48, compared to the Bills 55.4. Highest picks over that span: Bills: 7, 16, 23, 25, 27, 30, 33 = 161 (or an average of 23) Eagles: 9, 10, 13, 14, 21, 22, 30 = 119 (or an average of 17)

The Eagles are not a good comparison. Over the last 5 years, the average draft position of their first three picks is 47. The Bills average draft position of their first three picks over the same years is 66. That is quite a difference I would say. Plus, in that time, the Bills highest draft pick was 23. The Eagles have had 5 draft picks higher than 23 over that span, with three picks in the top thirteen (9, 10, and 13). Apples to oranges my friend.

Obviously you do not realize that only about 17-28% of third round picks in the NFL become starters (depending on whose number you use). Singletary was a starter for four years. So you are doubly wrong. Singletary would fall into the 17-28%, which means he was better than 72-83% of other 3rd round picks across the league. Most teams average just 1.7 four+-year starters per draft (out of 7-10 picks generally). So, if you get 2 long-term starters from a draft, you are above the curve. So, again, shows you that not all 2nd and 3rd rounders (or first for that matter) become starters. "From a team standpoint, if just one of your draft picks is extended in a second contract, that is an average draft. Extending two is a good draft, and 3 or more extraordinarily good." [This is a quote from the last link below.] This idea that other teams (or at least all of the best teams) are crushing their 2nd and 3rd round picks (hitting on starters every year in those rounds) and that Beane sucks is just not reality. Try looking at other team's drafts in comparison (noting where they are drafting as well) if you want to truly assess Beane's drafting. But to only look at our picks (and with unrealistic expectations) is not a good way to assess our GM. Also, I'd like to address this idea of impact players. In the last link below, a guy did a study of 1996-2016 and broke players down into tiers. Only 1% of draftees became legendary and only 6.9% of draftees become great. That is kind of what people are looking for in relation to "impact" players. Yet, only 7.9% of total drafted players reach that status. [In a draft of approx. 230 players, that means only 18 players will be "impact" players---so basically half of the teams each year do not get an "impact"---pro bowl level player.] And then, only 12.3% fall into the good (above average) category...which I don't think people would categorize as "impact" players. Next come the JAGs, the average players. They make up another 10.5%. So, only about 30% of drafted players overall become average or better and only about 20% of drafted players become above average. [The article is from 2022 and he did look to see if things changed from the earlier data until then, but he said the numbers were still pretty much the same---up to 2022.] https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/board/105323/contents/odds-of-becoming-a-quality-player-in-the-nfl-by-draft-round-211678773/ https://www.windycitygridiron.com/f/2022/7/13/23206891/where-was-the-average-nfl-offensive-starter-drafted-by-position https://www.thehogsty.com/2025/04/21/updated-the-odds-of-success-for-a-draft-pick-part-4/ https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high

He threw a punch at TE Zach Davidson because Zach was aggressively blocking through the whistle.

If there was collusion, i.e. if the league, commissioner, other owners all said don't draft him, then why did Cleveland draft him? Someone might say, no one should draft him, I don't like his attitude, and some others may agree, but what are the consequences for going against the collusion? For there to be collusion, then everyone would have to agree/cooperate and/or there would have to be consequences if you don't go along with the plan. Why would Cleveland go against the league then? And is it really collusion if he actually got drafted? Obviously Cleveland did not participate in the collusion. Was the collusion specific? No one draft him in the first three rounds, after that whatever. Take a team like the Bills, say Josh was 10 years older and we were looking for a replacement to groom. Is there any way that Beane and McDermott are going with Sanders? No, not a Bills DNA type of guy. How many other GMs and coaches think the same way? There did not need to be collusion for this to happen. Now, I don't put anything "negative" past the NFL at this point. I'm sure there are tons of questionable issues and practices in the league. But in this situation, I really don't see it. I think he could have refused to workout at the combine, but if he went in with a good attitude and took the interviews seriously, he could have maximized his draft status. But honestly, how many teams want a guy with apparent attitude and/or ego problems? Or who tells you (in words or actions) that he doesn't want to play for your team? Remember a franchise QB is the face of your franchise. They are the ones on TV and at community and charitable events representing your organization the most. You want them to be a leader on the field and in the locker room. If he can't rally his teammates around him (because they don't like him or he's an egomaniac) and there isn't cohesion in the locker room, you aren't going to be very successful, even if the guy is very talented. We aren't talking about a WR or DE with some questions about character/attitude, we are talking about the QB, the #1 guy you need on board and leading the other guys. I mean, where in the world is Josh Rosen? How about Ryan Leaf? or Vince Young? or Jeff George? They may not have been good enough in the long run, skill-wise...but their attitudes and temperaments definitely made sure their careers were short and unsuccessful. And obviously the teams that drafted them regretted it, much more so than just a standard nice, good attitude guy bust (like an EJ Manuel or JP Losman)---because they bring so many headaches on top of not playing well. No one wants one of those guys...especially if he isn't head-and-shoulders above the rest talent-wise. It's just that simple. But as others have said, Sanders is in the league, so he has every opportunity now to prove everyone wrong about him or to be able to mature and grow into a franchise QB. I don't expect it to happen, but that's only up to Shedeur and Cleveland at this point, not any of us.

It's probably tough to determine how much is scheme, how much is play calling, how much is personnel, how much is player execution, etc. But, I'd say the aging/loss of Hyde and Poyer and the fact that our two best coverage LBs (our starters: Milano and Bernard) have missed 32 games over the last two years is probably as big of a reason over the last two seasons. Not the only reason, but by no means insignificant. Was just trying to note that the core scheme can win Super Bowls (Spagnuolo) if employed properly. And again, considering the last three times we faced KC in the playoffs, at the end of regulation they were only up by 6 points (across 3 games), tells me that even if we didn't play great defense in those games, we have still been so close to the promised land. If the coin flip goes the other way in 2020, if Bass makes the field goal in 2023, if the refs give Josh the first down or Kincaid catches that ball. People may not love our defense, but it can get us to where we need to go. We just need to improve the pass rush and hopefully have no liabilities in the secondary (we'll see how that goes this season---it is a little bit of a concern still). But, you raised a legitimate question. Only 5 teams (Vikings, Chargers, Colts, Bucs, and Falcons) ran less man coverage than the Bills last year. But again, how much of that is personnel? I'm sure McD took fewer risks with Douglas and Hamlin being in the secondary (as opposed to Hyde, Poyer, and a healthy Tre or whatever) and not having a great pass rush...while Spags could take more risks (both with man coverage and blitzing) with an All-Pro corner like McDuffie (who often followed the best opposing receiver last season), and a pass rusher like Chris Jones, etc. The other question would be, can our CBs be successful playing more man? Is that in their skillset? Are they good enough for it? Or would we have guys getting burned without the zone scheme to protect (other guys in position to make the tackle if the completion is made/the CB gets burned). There is also this: https://www.paraballnotes.com/blog/man-vs-zone-defense-which-one-is-most-efficient-against-passing-plays "Undoubtedly, zone defense has outperformed man defense when facing passing plays. Teams have allowed 10.4% fewer EPA per play and 22.8% less WPA per play while using zone coverage compared to man coverage. It’s evident that NFL teams have noticed this performance gap: the proportion of man defense usage against passing plays has declined from a peak of 37.2% in 2019 to a low of 28.5% in 2023." Man coverage dipped even a bit further in 2024, with a league average of 27.6%. But, yes, the Bills were still on the low end of that average last year. So, who knows for sure Oldmanfan...I'm just throwing information out there that I found on the net and then what I see with the team. But I am by no means a football savant or anything.

To your first point: If you add up the records of all of the Bills' and Chiefs' playoff opponents over the last 6 years, it looks like this: Chiefs' playoff opponents: 216-99 (in 19 games) Bills' playoff opponents: 147-69 (13 games) That means: Chiefs' playoff opponents combined average record is 11.37 wins and 5.21 losses with a 68.57% win percentage. Bills' playoff opponents combined average record is 11.31 wins and 5.31 losses with a 68.06% win percentage. So, I'm not sure that you can use strength of opponent as an argument really. And I'm not sure what your other two points are arguing: -What do KC's Super Bowl blowouts have to do with it. Are you saying because so many points were scored in one game that all of those points shouldn't count? Or that because it is the SB, it means they are superior opponents. Yes, Philly was 14-3 last year, but Tampa was only 11-5 in 2020. In the same years, 2024 and 2020, the Bills lost to KC with records of 14-2 and 15-2. -He also didn't mention that the Bills held the Ravens to 3 points (2020) and Denver to 7 points (2024). Please do go on...

Apologies in advance for a very long post. This idea that McDermott scapegoats guys or sets them up as fall guys needs to be retired. He's only ever trying to make the team better (and obviously he's not going to fire himself). But to think that he sets guys up so when the team fails he can project blame on to them and throw them to the wolves is such the opposite of who Sean is as a man. After almost 9 years coaching this team, Bills fans should know that about his character. I posted this in another thread recently, but think it should be repeated as so many posters continually say that basically we didn't make any changes on defense except for adding Bosa: This off-season, the Bills hired Ryan Nielsen as a senior defensive assistant and Jason Rebrovich as assistant DL coach. -Ryan Nielsen was the DC for Jacksonville last year, he was the DC and DL coach for Atlanta prior to that, and in his stint in New Orleans, he was DL coach, co-DC, and assistant Head Coach. In college, he played as a defensive tackle for USC. He has coached for 13 years in college and 8 years in the NFL. -Jason Rebrovich started his pro-coaching career in Buffalo, eventually becoming both a DL coach and an outside LB coach for the Bills, he then went to Jax and became their DL coach, and then in Green Bay, he was outside LBs coach, DL coach, and pass rush specialist. He's coached 12 years in college and 12 years in the league. During the Giants preseason game, they talked a little bit about bringing Nielsen in and said that he was brought in specifically to help the D-line and pass rush and that he would probably help Sean install more 5-man fronts and other variations. And obviously, Rebrovich (as DL coach, outside LB coach, and Pass rush specialist) was brought in to help the pass-rush scheme and to help the young pass rushers develop. The Bills brought in 6 FAs on the DL/outside LB: Joey Bosa, Michael Hoecht, Larry Ogunjobi, Shaq Thompson, Casey Rodgers, and Marcus Harris. The Bills drafted 3 new guys for the DL: Sanders, Jackson, Walker. They also added a first round cornerback (Hairston), a 5th round CB (Hancock), and a 6th round CB (Strong), and brought back Tre and Dane (however you feel about them). I'd say that is a lot more change than just adding Bosa. Kind of seems like you guys aren't really paying attention. Spagnolo and McDermott are both proteges of Jim Johnson (see below). And as far as McD not having it in him to change, see above, regarding the two new coaching hires. I am no big Xs and Os guy, so those who are more knowledgeable, please correct me if I am wrong, or where I might be wrong. But the idea that the scheme is the problem and won't work in the playoffs made me think about the fact that Sean and Steve Spagnuolo were both proteges of Jim Johnson. Now, it has been many years since they worked with Jim, so I'm sure they picked up other nuances elsewhere along the way, or developed their own wrinkles. But I wondered, if at the core, it is a similar system. I couldn't find anything definitive comparing the two teams/systems or specifically stating that they both run the old Johnson system (or a variance of it), but here are a few things I found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Spagnuolo "Spagnuolo learned under Philadelphia defensive coach Jim Johnson, and shares the same aggressive, blitz-heavy approach as his mentor. Spagnuolo uses a 4–3 base defense with a heavy emphasis on multiple blitz packages, including corner and safety blitzes." https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/2/8/23591081/chiefs-eagles-super-bowl-lvii-quarterbacks-changed-steve-spagnuolos-career “Steve’s very creative [and] smart,” observed Andy Reid. “A real tribute to Springfield College. He’s been in the league, and he had a good tutor in Jim Johnson when he was young. So he’s been able to build off of that scheme [and] be very innovative with it.” So, it does appear that his core is still the Jim Johnson system (like Sean). https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5224800/2024/01/26/steve-spagnuolo-chiefs-defense-nfl-playoffs/ "Spagnuolo’s best blend of producing an effective pass rush, exceptional coverage and timely blitzes occurs when he employs dime personnel — six defensive backs, one linebacker and four linemen, a personnel grouping he used most in the league." "'Spags is a wizard, man,' defensive end Mike Danna said. 'He’s got tons of blitzes, and he knows how to get after a quarterback.' The Chiefs blitzed on third down at the fifth-highest rate in the league (39.3 percent)." I couldn't find a 3rd down blitz percentage for Buffalo last year (if anyone else can find it, would be interesting to see...but my gut tells me ean blitzes less). "Kansas City had just 17 takeaways in the regular season, tied for the fifth-fewest in the league. But Chiefs defenders are just as happy getting a third- or fourth-down stop as they are generating turnovers because of one reason: They have Mahomes, the league’s best quarterback. 'The ability to get stops and prevent first downs is more predictive than the ability to get takeaways,' Schatz said. 'Takeaways are hugely important, but they’re not as predictive. If what you want is consistent defense, being able to get stops is more important.' They also talked about him disguising coverages and blitzing CBs/safeties. Ok, so the Bills run a lot of dime package as well. McD also blitzes corners and safeties and disguises his coverage (when he's got the players to do so). The Chiefs played 35% man coverage and 65% zone coverage in 2024, while the Bills played 25% man coverage and 75% zone coverage. So, they appear to be running a very similar system with the main differences being a 10% difference in man/zone coverage, a higher focus on getting off the field on 3rd down rather than getting turnovers, and Spags is a "wizard" with blitzes. (I'm not saying McD is as good as Spags, just trying to assess if they are running a similar system.) As far as turnovers, some say the Bills can't repeat the turnover ratio from last year, well, that is more on Josh than the defense as the defense has been 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, and 3rd in takeaways over the last 5 years. So, Sean's defense is very good at creating turnovers. But is the Chiefs philosophy on that better? And Spags may be a wizard at blitz packages, but it also helps to have a player like Chris Jones (which McD has not had). Hopefully Bosa can at least help in that category this year (what could have been if Von didn't get injured...he was playing really well his first year with the Bills). Plus, as I said, Sean brought in those two new coaches to help with the blitz packages/pass rush. He is at least trying to improve where we have been lacking (we'll see if it all works, coaching, new players, etc.). But, at the core, it appears they run a similar system. So, I don't think the Bills defensive system is incapable of winning in the playoffs or against good teams or needs to be scrapped, we just need to improve in certain areas (mainly rushing the QB). As far as third downs go, the Bills were terrible last year (30th place) and mediocre in 2023 (18th place). But how much of that was just adapting without Hyde and Poyer (and add in the weak pass rush). But, in 5 of the prior 6 years (2017-2022), they finished 11th or higher in third down percentage (with four top 10 finishes and a first place finish in 2021). So the system is capable of getting stops, we just haven't done it well the last two years (again, is that more personnel?). Obviously fixing the pass rush and adding a 1st round corner were the #1 priorities this year. Unfortunately safety may have to wait until next year (if Cole doesn't come on). But I don't think you can underestimate how much aging/moving on from Poyer and Hyde affected things the last two years defensively. The safeties at least won't be worse than last year, because even if we have to start Damar, he and Rapp will have more experience in the scheme and with each other (not ideal, but not a total disaster). Let's hope the pass rush works. But, yeah, having said all of that, I do not think the scheme (overall) is the problem. It seems more personnel to me. Not that we don't have good personnel, but we have not had that elite pass rusher and/or (for the last two years) the type of young, healthy safeties that allow you to take more risks. We can talk philosophy a bit in regards to Sean (amount and type of blitzes, emphasis on turnovers, etc.), but overall, over the last 8 years, I think Sean and the system have proven very competent and capable of winning. Yes, we have had let downs in the playoffs and areas we need to improve, but we have consistently been a good defensive team under McDermott. Of course, I'd take a little more aggressiveness...and hopefully we'll see that this year with the DL improvements.

Justin Simmons is 31 years old. He's going into year 10 of his NFL career (8 years in Denver, 1 year in ATL). He played for Atlanta last year. He had 62 tackles, 2 INTs, and 7 Passes defended. From 2019-2023, he either made the pro bowl and/or 2nd team All-Pro (AP) each season. At the start of free agency, he was looking for a two-year deal worth about $10-14 million per year. I'm sure that number has gone down, considering it's August and the season is almost upon us. He played on a one-year deal with Atlanta last year for $8 million. SportTrac currently has his market value at $5,784,805. Would be great to have him, but money and age are a concern. Sounds like his coverage ability has fallen off a bit in the last couple of years (according to some). Yet, he'd probably still be an improvement (even if he's slowing down). If Beane can find the money, I wouldn't be opposed to a 1-year deal. https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/free-agency-3-safeties-bills-should-pursue-following-sunday-defensive-meltdown This article suggests two other candidates, besides Simmons: 1. Jordan Poyer and 2. Marcus Maye. I don't think we'd bring Poyer back, there is a reason we moved on when we did. He did still have 98 tackles and three passes defended for the Dolphins last year---but it seems that most Dolphins fans were not thrilled with his play last year (despite the big tackle number). Poyer is 34 years old. Maye is 32 years old and the last time he started a full season was 2020. He played for two teams last year (Miami and then LAC) with 4 starts, 42 tackles, and 2 PD. Not really sure if he is even an upgrade from Hamlin at this point. In 2020, his last full season as a starter, he had 88 tackles, 11 PD, 2 INTs, 2 sacks, 2 FF, 1 FR (but that was 5 years ago). Last year, Damar had 89 tackles, 5 PD, 2 INTs, 1 FR (for reference). Other FA options: Marcus Williams. 28 years old. 5 years in NO, 3 in Baltimore. Good player, but has missed 21 of his last 51 games. Vonn Bell. 30 years old. Played for NO, CIN, and CAR. Again good player. Missed 4 games in 2023, started 11 of 17 games last year. Tashaun Gipson. 35 years old. Played in 9 games for San Fran last year, only starting 1 game. John Johnson III. 29 years old. Played for Rams and Browns. Some good years stat-wise, but last year only played two games (fractured scapula) and only started 8 games in 2023. There is a reason most of these guys are still available: age/injuries/slowing down. There is always a chance of picking up someone after team cuts, but from the few articles I could find on the subject, it does not appear that any higher-end safeties (or better than what we already have) are expecting the chop. But there could be a surprise. But yeah, it doesn't look like there is much help out there, even if we had the money. Simmons is probably the best of the bunch, if we were to bring someone in. But again, he too seems to be slowing down a bit, so even he is a bit of a gamble at this point (at somewhere between the $6-8 million price tag he'd carry). Hoping the light comes on for Cole sooner rather than later. 🤞