folz

At the time, this is what I was hoping/thought the Bills would do---trade up for Brian Thomas, Jr. Of course, we don't know that they didn't at least inquire about it...maybe no one would trade or maybe the price was too high, who knows. But that's what I was hoping for too. And by no means is the following an exact science, but I tried to see what might have been if we did go that route. If we moved up from 28 to 23 to take Thomas Jr., according to the draft chart, we would need 100 points. In order to do that without using future draft picks, we would have had to give JAX our first 4th rounder and our second and third 5th round picks (the Bills had two 4th round picks and three 5th round picks at the start of the draft). No one can say exactly how it would have played out, but the two drafts might have looked like this (if the Bills still picked the same players when in the same range): Round Pick 1 23 Brian Thomas, Jr. 2 60 Cole Bishop 4 133 CB Jaden Hicks (this is who KC ended up drafting at pick 133 of the 4th round---not sure who the Bills would have taken, maybe Davis if available) 5 141 Sedrick Van Pran-Granger 6 204 Tylan Grable 6 219 Daequan Hardy 7 248 OG C.J. Hanson (this is who KC ended up drafting with pick 248 of the 7th round) Bills draft as it was: Round Pick 2 32 Keon Coleman 2 60 Cole Bishop 3 95 DeWayne Carter 4 128 Ray Davis 5 141 Sedrick Van Pran-Granger 5 160 Edefuan Ulofoshio 5 168 Javon Solomon 6 204 Tylan Grable 6 219 Daequan Hardy 7 221 Travis Clayton So, basically we lose Keon, Carter, Davis, Ulofoshio, Solomon, and Clayton; but we would have Thomas, Jr. and pick 133 in the 4th round and pick 248 in the 7th round (9th last pick in the draft). I know it wouldn't play out exactly that way, the Bills may have chosen other players/positions in the 4th to 7th rounds in the top draft based on the players/positions they weren't able to draft---for instance maybe they go DT or RB in the 4th instead of KC taking a CB, maybe they can still grab Davis there. But, just trying to get a general idea if it would have been worth it to trade up. As far as Thomas, Jr. and Coleman: Obviously Brian had a BIG rookie year, but he also had a ton of targets. He also played four more games than Keon and didn't have the strange end of a rookie season like Keon did. But to this point in their careers, here are a few numbers to look at: Thomas, Jr.: 70.6 yards per game; 0.526 TDs per game; 8.83 yards per target; 0.066 TDs per target. (152 total targets to date) K. Coleman: 46.3 yards per game; 0.333 TDs per game; 9.77 yards per target; 0.070 TDs per target. (71 total targets to date) [Not to cherry pick stats: Thomas, Jr. currently has 1,342 yards and 10 TDs; Coleman has 694 yards and 5 TDs.] I know pro-rating stats is a bit of a fool's errand because Keon didn't get as many targets as Thomas for a number of reasons. But, if you did pro-rate Keon's rookie year stats out to the same number of targets that Thomas, Jr. had, Keon would have been at 1,288 yards and 11.58 TDs. And Keon is not only looking good so far this year, he's also getting more targets than his rookie year. Last year he averaged 4.48 targets per game, in the first two games this year, he is averaging 7 targets per game. And I know you can't draw conclusions from just two games, and obviously Keon has the better QB/offense, but so far this year: Coleman: 14 targets, 11 receptions, 138 rec yards, 9 rush yards, 1 TD Thomas: 19 targets, 5 receptions, 60 rec yards, 48 rush yards, 0 TD Again, I'm not saying Keon is better than Thomas, Jr., but if he at least keeps pace with him or stays in somewhat of his range, then with the extra assets we got on top of that, maybe Beane played it right. I don't know, what do you guys think? Is Thomas just that much better than Keon that the other assets don't equate? It's basically Keon, Carter, Davis, Ulofoshio, and Solomon vs. Brian Thomas, Jr. and a late 4th round pick.

Agreed on Franklin. His two big solo tackles on kickoff and then helping to clean up a third tackle with some Umph on Sunday definitely jumped out to me as well (shouted him out in the Game Balls thread). He also had a solo teams tackle in week 1. Also, Codrington has been amazing. Not just for his long TD return against Baltimore, but for his hands. There have already been two or three hits as he's receiving the ball that other returners probably would have muffed. The kid has great hands (and toughness) as well as the speed and elusiveness. Buffalo Joe has been active on teams as well. And Prater has been an upgrade thus far. STs are looking up. Yes, there are plenty of Beane free agents that didn't work out...and we can all probably name most of them. But, he has also brought in a lot of guys that have helped the team or played well (at least for a period time): Cole Beasley, John Brown, Ty Johnson, Joey Bosa, Josh Palmer, Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Connor McGovern, Mitch Morse, Isaiah McKenzie, Von Miller, Daquon Jones, Jordan Phillips, Jon Feliciano, David Edwards, Emmanuell Sanders, Daryl Williams, Mack Hollins, Mitch Trubisky, Matt Barkley, Sam Martin, Tyler Matakevich, Mario Addison, AJ Klein, Shaq Lawson. (I'm sure I'm forgetting a few too.) Plus he traded for Diggs, and McD brought in Poyer and Hyde as FAs. So, it hasn't all been bad. Have a little perspective. And the Carolina thing hasn't been a thing for years now. Plus, it totally made sense that in their first few years they, 1. wanted players who understood their system and culture to help establish the culture in the new location; 2. They were players they were familiar with, who could at least set a baseline of play; 3. The Bills were an unstable team in a 17-year playoff drought, in a small market, cold and snowy, city---Free agents did not want to come to Buffalo. But if a player was familiar with the coach/GM, they were more willing to come at that time than other guys in the league. But, it's been almost 9 years now since they were in Carolina (almost a decade), and so much has changed. There are only two connections still on the Carolina roster. 1. T Taylor Moton was drafted by Carolina in the 2nd round of the 2017 draft (Beane's last draft with the Panthers...days before Beane left for Buffalo---but he would have been part of that pick); 2. J.J. Jansen, the long snapper, was on the roster back when McD and Beane were in Carolina. That's it. So McD has not coached any players currently on Carolina's roster (except Sam Martin, who they picked up this year as their punter), and Moton is the only player that Beane had any draft/FA input on for Carolina. Plus, the Panthers have been through six different head coaches in the time that McD has been in Buffalo, so there isn't anything left of the Rivera/McD culture there.

Nice topic/stat OP. Josh's current pace has him scoring 9.29 rushing TDs per season. If he were to keep that pace (and Hurts doesn't surpass him), Josh would have the most rushing TDs in league history in about 10.5 years (at age 40). Now whether he can keep that pace as he ages remains to be seen, but even if he just kept that pace for 5 more years, he would already be in 5th place all-time. Unbelievable! At his current pace, he would pass Cam Newton in week one of next season to be the QB with the most rushing TDs. And with two rushing TDs in the first two weeks this year, he is actually on pace for 17 rushing TDs this season (not that I expect that to happen)---but, if he did that, he would pass Cam around Week 11/12 this season. It really is amazing. At his current pace (27.86 passing TDs/year), if Josh played 10 more years (to age 39), he would be 5th on the all-time passing TDs list. If he played 12 more years at his current pace (to age 41), he would be 4th all-time on the passing TDs list (behind only Brady, Brees, and Manning). But none of them were running QBs or anywhere near Josh's rushing TDs (Brady had 28 rushing TDs in his career, Brees 25, and Manning 18---Josh already has 67). It would take Josh 12.25 years (Manning), 13.5 years (Brees), and 16.25 more years (Brady) to pass their passing TD totals (at Josh's current pace)---which would mean playing at a high level to 41, 43, and 45 years old (so that probably won't happen). But, he could literally end up with the most rushing TDs in history (or close) and say 4th/5th all-time in passing TDs. Currently Brady has the most combined TDs for a QB with 677 TDs. Josh had 262 TDs in his first 7 seasons (or 37.43 TDs/season). If he played 11.1 more seasons at that pace (to 40 years old), he could actually eclipse Brady for total TDs by a QB. Again, not sure he can keep up that pace that long, his body is taking a bigger toll than guys like Brady and Brees did (due to the rushing, extending plays, etc.), but it's amazing none the less that he even has a shot at it. We are truly blessed.

So, let me get this straight. Many Bills fans complain continuously that Josh has to do everything on his own. That we aren't as talented as other top teams, so Josh has to put on his cape and play one-on-eleven (apparently). Then we have a game that is a total team win. The offensive and defensive lines control the game and we run the ball a lot. They prove that there is a lot of talent around Josh actually. But now the issue is Josh didn't have enough passing yards, and we got stopped on some second down runs? I have learned over the years that some people just will never be happy, no matter how much you try to do for them. I'm not saying we can never discuss problems with the offense, the play calls, or individual players performances. etc. But we just opened the season scoring 41 points and 30 points, respectively, against two very good defenses. This offense is exactly what McDermott and Beane wanted since like Daboll's second/third season as OC. Don't you remember how many times McD tried to get the offense to be more balanced, get Daboll to run the ball more? We are a bigger, stronger, more balanced team now. We can play in a shoot-out with KC, or we can grind out rushing yards against physical teams (or poor teams). We can change our game plan according to our opponent (as weeks 1 and 2 showed us). We can now run a 4-minute offense to close out games (because we can run the ball better), etc. Plus, the league has changed since 2019-2021. A lot of time was spent trying to shut down offenses like KC and Buf. The move to more cover 0, then to man coverage, etc. We couldn't continue with the aerial attack we had (in the same way), but not be able to run the ball well. The defenses dictated that players like Allen and Mahomes would need to be more patient and methodical. The defenses were keeping everything in front of them. So, the offensive style needed to change. Plus, we needed to be stronger and more physical (which we are now) to face the Cincinnatis and Baltimores of the world. We were much more what we used to call a finesse offense in the Daboll years. Now we can ground and pound when needed (without losing the ability to still have a prolific passing offense). Just FYI Daboll's Bills offense at it's best (2020-2021; 34 regular season games): Averaged 377.5 yards per game and 28.9 points per game. Since Brady took over (mid-2023 to present; 25 regular season games): Averaging 350.8 yards per game and 30.2 points per game. Playoffs: Daboll (2020-2021) 3-2, averaging 30.2 points/game with 376.8 yards/game. Brady (2023-2024) 3-2, averaging 28.4 points/game with 370.8 yards/game. Pretty similar overall, but now our team is stronger and more multiple. We are no longer out physicaled by teams, we can run when we need to, change our game plan according to the opponent, fare better in inclement weather, we're not as predictable, etc...in my opinion. I don't think we have to worry about Brady and the offense. P.S. Someone brought up that we had some struggles in the last few games (particularly Baltimore and Denver). Yes, before the Jets game, our last four opponents were Baltimore, Kansas City, Baltimore, and Denver. All three teams were top 10 defenses in both yards allowed and points allowed last year. Denver was 3rd in points allowed, K.C. was 4th, and Baltimore was 9th. Stands to reason that you'd struggle a bit more against better defenses. And yet, in those 4 games, the Bills still averaged 32 points/game. (Heck, even the Jets' defense was #3 in yards allowed last year and we just had 403 yards and 30 points against them.) But sure, good defenses are going to get some stops too---like on a second down run.

Yes, exactly, it's only been two games. The Bills defense has played 80 snaps thus far. Walker currently has a 25% snap count, which means he has had a total of 20 snaps. Sanders currently has a 31% snap count, which means 24 total snaps. Walker had two solo tackles today and Sanders got one solo tackle today. But, they are rookies in the first 20 snaps of their careers. How much are you expecting from them this early? And I thought at the end of the game today that Sanders actually looked pretty active (despite only 1 tackle). With all rookies, it's a process. I mean, there aren't a lot of 2nd and 4th round picks that look like pro bowlers in their first two games/first 20 snaps in the league.

Yeah, Josh, Jimbo, and Joey. Not a lot of game balls to go around today because the big uglies (linemen) on both sides of the ball completely controlled the game and it was just a solid, team win. Not game balls, but a few guys to shoutout: #1: Cole Bishop: 5 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 Sack, 1 QB hit (hopefully he's ascending) #2: Elijah Moore for getting involved and for his TD (I think Brady will keep trying to find ways to use Moore's speed). #3: Sam Franklin, Jr. Three big special teams tackles early in the game. #4: Mitch Trubisky for coming in cold with a big throw and keeping the offense rolling until Josh came back.

Yeah, you're probably right...back in that era.

I remember watching a Bills/Jets game when I was a kid and the announcer at some point mentioned how big Mark Gastineau's biceps were---can't remember the actual size, but I do remember one of my older male cousins (who was in his 20s at the time) say, oh my God, that's the size of my thighs. The guys basically had legs for arms...unreal.

I'll stick up for Jets fans a bit. I live in NYC (and have for many years). I go to the Jets/Bills game at the Meadowlands every year and I've never had any problems (win or lose), despite always being decked out in Bills gear and cheering loudly. I've also had many Jets fans as friends over the years, and until Josh came along, we basically just commiserated with each other over how bad our teams were. And yes, most of the Giants fanbase comes from northern New Jersey, Conn, and Upstate NY (north of the City up to say Albany/Syracuse...though I think the Bills have been encroaching on that NY territory over the last few years). Most Jets fans are from the City proper (Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn...maybe Staten Island, but who knows, that's like a different world) and Long Island. The Jets fans are die-hards for their team, they complain about the team all of the time (well deserved), but they never jump ship...you gotta appreciate that when they haven't had much to celebrate. As to a rivalry, well, it seems that individual games can be difficult and physical because we are in the same division, fighting for the same crown, but there has been very little what you would consider rivalry types of games and situations over the years because the teams just haven't been good at the same time. In 65 years, the Bills and Jets have only both had a winning record in four seasons total (1981, 1988, 1998, and 2004). Yes, in the 80s, there was maybe a bit of a rivalry (the early 80s teams---Chuck Knox vs. the Sack Exchange, or winning our first division title in so many years over the Jets later in the 80s, etc.). But, overall, there has never been many story lines between the teams to make them rivals (other than being division opponents). I feel for Jets fans, we think we have been through some hard times... In 65 years, the Jets have had only 20 winning seasons, they have only had 3 seasons in 65 years that they had more than 10 wins. They have made the playoffs 14 times. They won the AFL Championship game and Super Bowl in 1968. Since then (56 years), 4 AFC Championship game appearances (no wins). In comparison, in 65 years, the Bills have had 29 winning seasons, with 12 years with more than 10 wins. The Bills have made the playoffs 24 times. 3 AFL Championship games (2 AFL Championship wins), 7 AFC Championship appearances (4 wins), 4 Super Bowl appearances (all losses). They've had a lot less to cheer for than us over the years, despite the Bills having so many down years and eras themselves. Overall head-to-head: Bills lead series 71-58 (55% of the wins to the Bills), but, since 2012, the Bills have won 17 of the last 25 games (68%).

Again, I did not see any Ravens players "engage" or "taunt" the fans before the fan pushed DHop. I mean, how did they "engage" the fans, just by being near the wall? I'd have to watch it again to see if Lamar said something to the fan after the fan pushed DHop, but Lamar did not then engage him physically until after the fan had also pushed Lamar in the head. And note that the push was in the side/back of Lamar's head, which means Lamar was actually walking past the fan, not engaging with him (even after the push of DHop). And I have no problem with people saying that Lamar should not have pushed back (or should be fined)...I mean that is the rule on both sides. Fans should not be touching the players (or face ejection) and the players should not be touching the fans (or face fines). I just don't fault Lamar that much. It was a heat of the moment type of thing, which we have all fallen prey to at times in our lives. Now if he started throwing haymakers or jumped into the stands, that would be one thing, but it was a push in the heat of the moment AFTER a fan shoved two players in the head unwarrantedly. This was all on the Bills fan, not the Ravens, imo.

The Ravens were not taunting, they were celebrating an amazing catch and TD by a great player in his first game with the team. It was his first reception as a Raven and a spectacular one at that, in a BIG game. The Ravens' players just followed DHop, who ended up near the stands, to celebrate with him. Before the first push by the fan, I do not see any Ravens players engaging with the Bills fans in any way (talking, jawing, pointing...nothing). They are just running after DHop to celebrate with him, as teammates should.

I'm wondering if it is a stat that over a period of time may be more accurate than looking at a single game only. Meaning you could statistically have a game where it looks incorrect (on which QB was better), but in the long run it balances out a bit. I went to look at the QBRs from last season, assuming Josh might be lower than I would expect. But in 2024, Lamar and Josh were tied for the best QBR at 74.8 each (the two MVP candidates). Joe Burrow was 3rd and Jayden Daniels was 4th. In 2023, Brock Purdy had the best QBR at 72.8. Dak was second, Josh 3rd, Lamar 4th, Herbert 5th. In 2022, Mahomes was #1 at 79.0, then Josh, Tua, Hurts, and Goff. (Lamar was 9 and Burrow 10 in 2022). In 2021, it was Rodgers at 74.1, followed by Brady, Herbert, Stafford, Mahomes, and Allen. I personally never really look at or use this stat (QBR), but again, wondering if it is more accurate over a larger sample size than one game. Because looking at the lists for the last four years, it does seem like generally, the best QBs of that season did end up with the higher QBRs.

I really hope Lamar does not get fined for it. If he does, the Mafia should raise the money to pay for it. 😁 Lamar didn't go all Muhammad Ali on him, he just shoved him back (as that fan deserved). Thinking that you have some sort of immunity as a fan to do something like that is ridiculous (that kid would be soiling his pants if he actually had to square off against Lamar or Deandre in the parking lot). I know there are rules about the players not engaging...but they are human too.

Great win for the Bills, Western New York, and All Bills fans! Just WOW! Instant Classic (even more so because it's the last opener in Rich stadium)! Love this team! Josh was out of this world alien-level in the 4th quarter. But, something happened in this game that was encouraging...guys other than Josh stepping up in the right moments/clutch time. Oliver coming up with a big 3rd down sack when we desperately needed a stop, and then causing the Derrick Henry fumble---game changing plays. The big catches by Joshua Palmer and Jackson Hawes. Keon coming up with the tipped TD catch---I'm pretty sure that Josh was targeting Shakir, it was way over Knox's head, he shouldn't have reached for it, but heads up by Keon, being Johnny on the spot, with a great effort and catch. Benford with a couple of big third down tackles late in the game. And the everyone eats philosophy continues, with 9 different players catching a pass from Josh tonight (would have been 10 players if Ty Johnson could have held on to one of his two targets---that would-be TD throw from Josh was perfect). Yes, the defense looked rough at times, but a lot of that is Derrick Henry. He has been causing us problems since his Tennessee days. Just a special player who matches up well against our defensive style. The good thing is that Barkley may be the only other back in the league that could match up similarly, so... Plus, it stands to reason that this defense will improve as the year goes on: getting Tre and Hairston back, getting the suspended DTs back, getting Cole and the rookies more playing time, getting the new guys (Bosa, etc.) acclimated. Plus, they have been tweaking things a bit in the pass rush and using more man coverage, etc. Not great tonight, but give it time to gel. They did come up with the stops when they absolutely had to, in crunch time. So that's a big positive. And I think this is a great game to acclimate all of the new guys into the fold/culture. It was fun to see how excited Palmer was to make that big catch on the last drive, or to see Bosa on the sidelines at the end in joyous disbelief, or Prater smiling as his teammates hoisted him up after the game winning field goal. And Jackson Hawes making that huge, bobbled catch. This game will go a long way in the team chemistry department. Just an awesome night! Go Bills!

Just as Bellichick's record is as good as it is because of Brady and Reid's record is as good as it is because of Patrick Mahomes and Donovan McNabb and Shula's record is as good as it is because of Unitas and Marino and Walsh's record is as good as it is because of Montana and... well, you get the picture. If you are trying to say that McDermott would be terrible (would always have a mediocre or losing record) without Josh, I think you are dead wrong. But, yes, of course his record is better with Josh than it would be without Josh---but then you could say that about any coach that had one or more HOF QBs.

Allen Oliver Coleman Benford And welcome to Buffalo Matt Prater, Jackson Hawes, and Joshua Palmer. All had big plays to make the comeback happen. Loved to see how excited and happy Bosa and Prater were after the win. I think this game/big win will really help the new guys settle into the culture more quickly.

How about that Sunday night opener of the 2025 season (the last opener in Rich/Ralph Wilson/The Ralph/New Era/Highmark Stadium). Remember how crazy that was. Down 40-25 with seven minutes to go in the 4th quarter. And with a Derrick Henry fumble caused by Ed Oliver, Josh led an amazing comeback to win 41-40, on a last second, run-on/run-off field goal by Matt Prater. One of the opening day classics for the Bills. 😉

You guys keep saying 7 years with one of the best QBs ever, etc. And I will continue to retort with context. Do you not remember 2017-2019? It wasn't that long ago. It was a team in total rebuild. It was a miracle that they made the playoffs in 2017 with that roster, and you know what? The 2018 roster got even worse as Beane cleared the cap. Yes, Josh came in in 2018, and we as Bills fans saw the flashes right away (particularly that Minnesota game), but Josh was EXTREMELY RAW as a QB prospect. Do you not remember how many people doubted Josh, said he was terrible, pointed to his completion percentage, turnovers, and boneheaded plays when he was playing "hero ball" in his first few years? Josh did not come in as a HOF player, it took time to develop him. And not only did this regime pick him and have confidence in him (when almost the entire football world, including MANY Bills fans, had already written him off), they developed him and had the right culture for Josh to succeed in, etc. But, let's just discount all of that. Josh came into his own in 2020 and started playing like one of the best QBs in the league. But, he was still learning and growing. 2020/2021 were the years that defenses started running a lot of cover zero, etc. against the Bills and Chiefs, to slow down Mahomes and Allen. It took a little while for both QBs to learn and grow from that---to take what the defense gives them, short passes, dump offs, rather than going for home runs. Josh had to learn patience and how to manage the offense better. There was also a season, I can't remember which, that Josh was having trouble with the long ball and had to work on that. Josh did not come to the Bills fully formed, i.e. Josh was not the Josh of today in his first few years (obviously very few QBs are, the good ones get better, but Josh had a lot further to go than most---of course, he did it in record time---because Josh is Josh, but he had help too). It's crazy to think that McD had a legitimate shot to win a Super Bowl with Josh in 2018 and 2019, due to both the overall roster and Josh's development. Not sure you can count those two years as should of, could of. As far as the playoff losses, let's start with Cincinnati (2022 season): You can disagree with me all you like, but imo, I don't think there is any coach who gets that team to the Super Bowl that year. With what happened to Damar, the Christmas blizzard, and the injuries (on top of everything else that happened that season---I won't go through them all) that team wasn't going anywhere even if Andy Reid, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Bill Bellichick, and Vince Lombardi were coaching that team. They just had nothing left in the tank come playoff time. They aren't robots. 2019: Houstion. Josh and the team were definitely not Super Bowl caliber yet. We were still rebuilding and Josh was still learning and growing. In 2020, we made it to the AFC Championship game...we were good, but the talent-level and experience of Kansas City (plus a little help from the refs) was too much. That Bills team was not ready yet, both personnel-wise (we were severely lacking in depth and had some weak starting spots and a banged up receiving corps) and experience-wise (and yes, that includes the head coach and the quarterback...I think they both learned a lot from that game). So, now we get to the 2021, 2023, and 2024 seasons (imo, our best shots at the big dance). Three losses to K.C., two in the divisional round, one in the AFC Championship. At the end of regulation of those three games, the Chiefs were up six points. We basically lost to them by an average of 2 points/game over three games. A dynasty-team that has appeared in 5 of the last 6 Super Bowls, winning three of them. They have been in the AFC Championship Game all seven of the last seven years. And again, if it weren't for the refs, I think we win last year's game. If Bass makes the field goal, we may have won in 2023. If the Bills win the coin toss in 2021, the Bills probably win. I know it's frustrating because of how close we have been, but...we have been that close and still are---year in and year out. The more at bats you have the better your chance of hitting the home run. And this regime is giving us the at bats. One ball bounces our way or a little luck from the football gods and we'll reach the promised land. Stats are good for showing trends and averages, but no stat is an absolute predictor. A stat like "never has a Coach/Qb combo been together for 5 years and won a Super Bowl," or whatever is only a stat until it isn't a stat. Every record in sports eventually gets broken. That stat does not mean it can't or won't ever happen. Plus, as my post is stating, you have to look at context. Each situation is unique. Did a coach step into a team with an 8-year vet HOF QB and an already established organizational culture and a good roster? Or a raw rookie QB on a rebuilding team, etc. Context matters. Also, I highly doubt that if we made a Super Bowl and lost, that the anti-McD and/or anti-Beane fans would be happy. They would probably be calling for their heads even louder. "You see, McD can't win the big game, he plays not to lose, etc." And finally, as has been pointed out many times by many posters, just having a great, HOF-caliber QB (and good coaching) does not guarantee Super Bowl appearances, let alone Lombardi Trophies: Drew Brees (future HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win in 20 years (with Sean Payton as his coach for the majority of his career, a coach that many said they would take over McDermott any day of the week. But by Bills fans' standards, didn't then Payton "waste" Drew Brees' career?). Aaron Rodgers (future HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win in 20 years (with Mike McCarthy his HC for most of his career). Dan Marino (HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance/loss in 17 years (with Don Shula as his HC). Brett Favre (HOF): 2 Super Bowl appearances, one win, one loss in 20 years (Mike Holmgren and Mike Sherman as his main HCs). Steve Young (HOF): 1 Super Bowl appearance and win (as a starter---made a SB in 1990 but as a backup to Montana) in 11 years as a starter. Those aren't just HOF QBs, they are some of the best to ever play (all of them are top 10-12 all time; three of them are probably top 5 all-time). Yet, combined, they have 6 Super Bowl appearances and 4 Super Bowl wins in 88 seasons. Or, in 82 of 88 seasons (93% of their careers), they did not even appear in a Super Bowl. It's just not as easy as some of you guys think, no matter how good your quarterback is.

It's a tie for me...both against the Dolphins: September 7, 1980. First victory against the Dolphins in 21 games---ending the 0-for-the-seventies vs. the Phins. Dolphins led 7-3 at the start of the fourth, but a pair of Bills' touchdowns (by Roosevelt Leaks and Joe Cribbs) in the 4th gave the Bills a 17-7 lead. Jeff Nixon got his third interception of the day with :36 seconds left to seal the deal. And then the fans stormed the field and tore down the goalposts...carrying them around the stadium. September 10, 1989. Dolphins led 24-13 in the 4th quarter. The Bills came back to score two touchdowns: the first, a TD catch by Flip Jonson; the second TD came on the last play of the game---a two-yard QB keeper that Kelly took to the endzone, diving in between two Dolphins defenders as the game clock expired. And then the team piled on Kelly in the end zone in celebration. Bills win in Miami 27-24. Although this wasn't their first year together, they didn't have all of the pieces yet, and they ultimately did not reach the Super Bowl that season, that game down in Miami seemed to be the start of it all, imo, for the "90s" Bills and really set the tone for what was to happen over the next 5-7 years. Honorable mentions: September 7, 2003: Although the season would not turn out the way that first game looked like it might (6-10, no playoffs) and the Pats would get revenge with an exact inverted score of week one in the last game of the season, in the moment, that 31-0 pummeling of the Pats (with newly acquired safety Laywer Malloy) was a lot of fun. Four interceptions of Brady, one being Big Sam's pick-six. Spikes had two INTs, Fletcher had 13 tackles. All just enough for us to get our hopes up for the season...only to be dashed, as only the Bills can do. 2011: Another season that looked all so promising after a 4-1/5-2 start to the season, only to again fall apart (losing 8 of their last 9). But, they opened the season on September 11th in Arrowhead with a 41-7 destruction of the Chiefs. Fitz threw four TDs and Freddie Jackson ran for 112 yards. September 1, 1991: (another Dolphins game) Fresh off their first Super Bowl loss, the Bills came back from a 17-7 deficit to beat Marino and the Dolphins 35-31 in Rich Stadium on opening day of the new season. Kelly threw for 381 yards and Thurman Thomas had 268 yards from scrimmage with 2 TDs. Reed added 154 yards receiving and a TD.

Ha, well that's still real young to me. Yeah, I didn't realize he'd been in the league a few years already. Ok, I like him less as a developmental guy and more as an emergency guy then. 😁

Glad to see Buechele, Gore, Gosnell, Wilkerson, Latu, Ciarlo, and Jenkins make the PS. That was pretty much the preseason guys I liked or thought flashed. Wish Zach Davidson also made the PS. But pretty happy with the depth the PS provides as it is. I wouldn't have minded seeing Shenault and/or Hamler, but think I prefer developing the young guys (Wilkerson and Gosnell). I really like what Wilkerson showed in the preseason: good hands, tough (dirty) catches, etc.

I thought episodes 1 and 2 were pretty dull, but I have enjoyed watching episodes 3 and 4...they have been much better (even if they aren't really digging too deep on anything).

I think the only way they could let Codrington go was if Shenault could also handle punt return duties. I really liked Shenault as a kick returner (and it seemed he offered more at his position than Codrington does at his). But, apparently they weren't sold on him at punt return (he only had one punt return for 7 yards in the pre-season---he has no punt returns in 4 years in the league---not sure how he looked at practice). Plus, it might have been tough to keep 7 receivers---we weren't even sure if they would keep 6. The only reason I thought Codrington might be in trouble is because he was inactive for all 3 playoff games last year...I assume because he wasn't able to also help on defense which was needed due to injuries. We had Davis and Johnson handle KOs and Shakir handle punt duties in the playoffs. But I don't think the team wanted any of those guys doing it all season. Now, I have no problem with Codrington as our returner though, I think he is a very good returner, I was just hoping they could maybe maximize the roster spot if someone or two someones could beat him out (and who might help more at their position duties). And it has been said elsewhere, but why are so many people all of a sudden down on DeWayne Carter? I thought he was starting to come on last year (showing flashes) before the injury. I didn't keep up with camp as much this year as usual (other than watching the preseason games), so is there something I don't know about? Did something happen in camp to make so many people down on a 3rd round pick going into just his second year? None of these cuts were surprises, but these are guys I liked that got cut (along with Big Phil ☺️) Jimmy Ciarlo Frank Gore, Jr. Zach Davidson Shane Buechele Kristian Wilkerson Laviska Shenault (more so for his kick returning than at WR) But hopefully, most of them will make it to the practice squad...so no real loss. Very happy for Shavers!

I'm not knocking Roseman for anything, and I'm not trying to say that Beane is a better overall GM than Roseman---as you said, you can't argue with 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 appearances. I was only saying that the Eagles are not a good comparison when it comes to assessing Beane's drafting, mainly because the Eagles have had more premium picks and a higher-overall draft position (specifically over the last 5 years, but I expanded it to 8 at your request). How they got those picks may indeed have been some savvy GM work (not unlike Beane moving up for Josh), but if you are trying to compare just drafted players to drafted players, who did better, well it's not an apples to apples comparison imo. To be clearer with the data: Over the last eight years (2017-2024): The Eagles have had 58 total picks, with an average draft position of 124. They have had 23 picks in the first three rounds, with an average draft position of 48. The Bills have had 61 total picks, with an average draft position of 136. They have had 24 picks in the first three rounds, with an average draft position of 57. 1st Round 2nd Round 3rd Round Eagles picks 9, 10, 13, 14, 21, 22, 22, 30 37, 40, 43, 49, 51, 53, 53, 57 65, 66, 73, 83, 94, 99, 103 Bills picks 7, 9, 16, 23, 25, 27, 30 33, 37, 38, 54, 59, 60, 61, 63, 63 74, 86, 89, 91, 93, 95, 96, 96 In the first three rounds, the Eagles have picked above the Bills 17 of 24 times (71% of the time). [I bolded the picks where the Bills actually picked higher---and 4 of the 7 are at the end of the third round---and the other 3 picks are only separated by 1 or 2 spots]. If a GM could pick which set of draft picks he'd rather have, they are going to take the Eagles picks. We can argue the amount of an advantage it is, but it is an advantage. And again, if you only look at the last 5 years, when the Eagles acquired most of the "impact" players that people refer to, rather than the last 8 years, the difference in draft position between the two teams is even more pronounced. As I noted before, last 5 years, the Bills highest draft pick was 23. The Eagles had 5 picks better than 23 in that span.

Yes, and in the two years that I didn't include they drafted Tre, Dion, Milano, Taron, Harrison Phillips, Tremaine Edmunds, Siran Neal, Wyatt Teller, oh and a guy named Josh Allen (all guys who are still playing in the league after 7-8 years, six of whom are still with the Bills---and when the average NFL player's career is only 3.3 years). But, I'll add 2017 and 2018 in the comparison with Philadelphia. Over the last eight years (2017-2024), the Eagles average first three picks is 55 and the Bills is 59. But, in 2018, the Eagles did not have a 1st or 3rd round pick (which I assume they traded for a high-end player, such as the Bills trading a 1st for Diggs). So, if I instead changed it to over the last seven years what is the Eagles average draft pick in the first three rounds? It's 48, compared to the Bills 55.4. Highest picks over that span: Bills: 7, 16, 23, 25, 27, 30, 33 = 161 (or an average of 23) Eagles: 9, 10, 13, 14, 21, 22, 30 = 119 (or an average of 17)