folz

ROCbillsfan87 I sent you a private message. K-Apps...waiting to hear from ROC first. LBSeeBallLBGetBall thanks for bumping the topic.

Any Bills fan in the New York/New Jersey area want to go to the game tomorrow? I'm going, but my friend that was supposed to go with me can't make it. So, I have one extra ticket. If you're interested in going to the game with another Bills fan (originally from Rochester) just respond to this topic. I could meet you outside the stadium before the game tomorrow to get you the ticket. The ticket is free...first come first served!

Great topic Protocol...hope the front office and the new owners who have enough money to replace it are listening. We have been injury plagued for years now, despite always having a top training and strength/conditioning staff.

Still think they made the right decision in starting Tyrod and unless EJ totally lights it up for two weeks, then Tyrod should get his job back when better. But after his progress in the off- pre-season, I am excited to see EJ get a chance to play and I expect him to play well. I think the light turned on for him a bit going into year 3. And I'm sure for at least the first game they won't ask him to do too much, unless we're getting killed and it's the only option. Anyhow, If Sammy and Karlos are back I think he'll do good, without them it would be tough sledding again whether it was Tyrod or EJ behind center.

No offense to the OP for posting, but this guy has nothing of value to add. On the Karlos play video, he contradicts himself at least 3 times. He first tells us that from watching Karlos at Florida State, he has bad vision, but a good feel for the cutback. Then later he tells us that KW doesn't have a feel for the cutback, but says here is a play where he did have a good feel for the cutback. What? So, you illustrate to us that he doesn't have a feel for the cutback with a play where he makes a great cutback!?!? Then, he makes a big point about KW having his head down at the start of the play, which to this guy indicates his "lack of vision." But then he follows that up by saying on a gap run play (which is what the play was) the RB is supposed to have his head down at that point in the play. Then he points out how when the play breaks down, KW has his head up for the rest of the play, which allows him to see the open area and run to and through it. So, KW did everything that he's coached to do on the play and yet this guy is trying to use that play to show us KW's lack of vision? Not to mention that I actually saw a video yesterday where the commentator (I believe it was a former player) praised KW for keeping his head up on this play to allow him to make the great cutback. How someone can majorly contradict himself 2 or 3 times in a 4 minute video is beyond me, and using a play that actually shows the opposite of what you're trying to prove?...I'm at a loss.

The first couple of times I watched it, I was thinking it might be unintentional. Guys get tangled up all the time as they try to stand up after a tackle. But after watching it a few times, I noticed that Suh places his hand on Morris's shoulder. Watch it again noticing that. The hand on the shoulder is what allows him to kick the helmet off. On repeated views, no, it wasn't that bad/brutal, but it does look intentional to me now.

Couldn't agree more with this thread. Schmidt has been fantastic since the day he arrived. We are lucky to have gone from Moorman to Schmidt. Everyone forgets about the punter when he's good, but if you have a bad one, everyone is all too aware of how it hurts the team. Schmidt was clutch again today, helping us win the field position battle during the crucial parts of a 0-0 game.

How do you figure that? Fred: 15 fumbles in 1,279 attempts = 1 fumble every 85 rushing attempts Bryce: 5 fumbles in 266 attempts = 1 fumble every 53 rushing attempts

First chance I've had to post today...and I just have to add to the chorus: Horrible decision (yes, I understand the reasons why...but it still sucks). THANKS FREDDIE!!!!!!!! You've been awesome, a true Bill through and through. Great player, great person. I can't wait to see your name on the wall of fame! But, before that, I'm envisioning a scenario. Fred gets picked up by the Pats. Week 2 Fred comes out and makes some amazing play and the whole stadium chants "Fred-dy" "Fred-dy." Sticking it to Whaley a bit and showing their love for Fred. Even if it was the right decision for the franchise moving forward (see the Patriots dumping Lawyer Malloy a week before the season, et al. Good teams do this). But, every once in a generation, or so, there is someone who should be the exception to that rule and Fred should have been it. I won't be rooting for the Patriots or any other team he goes to to win against the Bills, but it sure as hell will be hard not to cheer for him when he makes a play...and I have never cheered for a non-Bills player against the Bills...not even Thurman in Miami. Players can come and go and I'm still just a Bills fan, I root for the team, not just individual players (as much as I love certain guys for their play and/or personality and root for all of them to succeed as individuals)...but just as I am forever a Bills fan, I will also forever be a Fred Jackson fan wherever he is! And I'm not changing my avatar in protest, damn it!

So many to choose from (as mentioned above)... But for some reason, Opening Day in Miami 1989, Jim Kelly diving for a touchdown as he's sandwiched by two Dolphins on the last play of the game for the win, stands out in my mind. The Bills-Dolphins games seemed to take on epic proportions because of the rivalry and two of the greatest QBs dueling it out. And coming off of our 1st good season (1988) after like 7 really bad ones, that Jim Kelly dive felt like a pivotal moment, like confirmation that this team was indeed special. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok0fczZw9gE And the 44-34 shootout in the snow, in the Divisional Round of the playoffs against the Phins that put the Bills in the AFC Championship against the Raiders was pretty damn memorable too! (Couldn't find a video of that one.)

If that article is accurate, it looks like Freddy may see the bulk of the 3rd down passing situation plays. It says Shady is good with screens, but doesn't excel in the passing game (too many drops/not crisp routes). Plus it doesn't sound like he's a great pass protector either. Freddy excels in both of those areas. Other take aways: LeSean's first cut in the third video on the page and the cut that left the two Giants safeties standing still in the fourth video were sick. Looking forward to seeing those moves in a Bills uniform for the next 3-4 years (at least). And being in Roman's system may actually keep LeSean from bouncing it outside too much (an alleged knock against him). It appears that he knows how to follow and use his blockers. In the last video on the page, it looks like maybe a TE or an O-lineman in an H-back position leads for Shady, who follows him through the hole and then cuts nicely off his back. With Felton, Clay, and maybe Boobie lead blocking, he might have more confidence that the designed path will be open and follow his blockers through traffic rather than bouncing it outside. Can't wait to see what Roman's staff can do with all of this talent. I'm excited just to see how he utilizes the backs: Shady, Fred, Felton, Boobie, Bryce. And that's not even thinking yet about Clay and our stacked receiving corps. And I have confidence that (finally) we have a coaching staff that will know how and when to use their players properly.

As others have said the line is already better because of: Rex Roman Kromer Incognito Felton: He turns little holes into big holes. McCoy I'll add: Percy, Sammy, Woods, Clay: Sammy healthy and a year under his belt, Robert going into 3rd year, and then Percy and Clay. How does this help the line? Teams can't commit as many men at the line, either stacking the box or blitzing, because we have players that can quickly take a screen or short pass to the house. So, they have to commit players to defend that or they'll get burned. Fewer 6-8-man fronts and blitzes will make the line seem a lot better. Are you going to leave Sammy and Percy in one-on-one coverage? What about McCoy coming out of the backfield for a pass? Teams won't be able to overload the line as they've been able to do in the past against us. And with Felton back there, we should at worst be able to put a hat on a hat. That means better running lanes and more time for the QB. And a lot of people were down on Wood and Glenn for having down years, but the offensive line, more than anything has to work as a unit. When you play a 5th and a 7th round rookie and another guy out of position, you get a lot of mistakes. It often happens that guys look bad when they're playing next to bad players, because they are covering. To us it looks like he's getting blown up, but he may have been having to try to cover two guys cause the rook picked up the wrong man or whatever. So, I think Wood and Glenn are still good players and will play better with stronger players next to them. Richie is an upgrade at one guard spot. Then we have Urbik and Henderson. It would be nice to upgrade them both and I think the FO will still try to. But at worst they're a push. So, this line is already better than last year, we won 9 games last year, so, yes we can win with this line. 11+ games? Well I'd feel more comfortable saying that if we were able to upgrade at least one more position, if not both (either from in-house---someone stepping up, the draft, or FA/cuts). But, yes, I think it can be done. *And the idea that the players got mixed messages from the coaches last year (if true) can not be over-emphasized. Who could excel at any job under those circumstances---3 different bosses telling you three different things is a perfect setup for failure.

As others have said, the OP is being disingenuous with the stats, by not including his touches as a receiver and punt returner, and by including all fumbles, not just fumbles lost (ya know, the ones that actually hurt the team). So, if Fred muffs a punt to his feet when subbing for an injured punt returner (not his normal position), but then picks it up and gets a decent return, this is to tell us that he is fumble prone as a RB? Come on. Does Fred fumble, sure, but how much different is he from other RBs? When you add in ALL TOUCHES (rushing attempts and receptions) and only fumbles lost, this is how he compares to some of the better RBs in the league (these are career stats for all players and I tried to pick guys that also have enough touches to warrant comparison): In order of best to worst: LeSean McCoy: 1 fumble every 176 touches Matt Forte: 1 fumble every 174 touches Marshawn Lynch: 1 fumble every 162 touches Arian Foster: 1 fumble every 162 touches Fred Jackson: 1 fumble every 146 touches D. Murray: 1 fumble every 138 touches A. Peterson: 1 fumble every 119 touches F. Gore: 1 fumble every 111 touches J. Charles: 1 fumble every 94 touches Bryce Brown: 1 fumble every 66 touches (although its a bit unfair to compare him to those above due to a much smaller sample size) Are you guys telling me you wouldn't have wanted Peterson, Gore, Murray, or Charles over the last few years because they fumble too much?

That's (the bolded) a good point. But don't underestimate that Ritchie knows his NFL career depends on not being a problem and if Harvin wants another big pay day, he has to be on his best behavior too. Of course, you want your offensive and team leader to be the QB (it just seems to be the best scenario on a football team). But I'm ok with Kyle and Freddie being the team leaders being the longest tenured Bills. Those guys bleed red, white, and blue. And from what I've heard, Cassel is a QB who will get in guys faces and lead well (if he turns out to be the guy). If not, hopefully he can continue to teach EJ and Tyrod how you need to lead and prepare. He may not be the most skilled QB, but Cassel learned from Brady, played a season for BB, has over 70 starts in the league. He knows how to be a leader. Wood is also an offensive leader and doesn't put up with crap. Plus he's friends with Ritchie...so I think that will work. Ritchie's problem is not work ethic, so I don't think he'll be a bad influence on our young O-linemen in the room. RBs room? Freddie, LeSean, Boobie, Felton. No leadership issue there. WRs...i think it's going to be Sammy. Sammy is all business, very mature, and not afraid to speak up. He apparently is a fan of Percy's, so hopefully they build a good relationship. I think Robert could also be an up and coming leader. If these guys see their potential and start winning...everyone is going to be happy. Plus, everyone likes playing for Rex. I really don't think we have to worry about these guys causing so many problems that it derails the team in any way.

A few points that came to mind while reading this thread: 1. By some people's logic, a bad team could never get better. I mean if you wait to pick up good players (Harvin, McCoy, Mario, etc.) until you are sure you have a top 10 franchise QB and an All-Pro offensive line, well then how many seasons do you waste before you find that and then how many seasons get wasted once you do have that and just now start to build around them? Why not build a solid team and win some games, so when you do find the right QB and final piece to the O-line, you're a contender immediately (see Pittsburgh and Seattle). At least they'll be fun to watch in the meantime. (Not that I don't think this team can compete as is with the current philosophy.) 2.I don't think the Bills would make this move if it meant they couldn't still improve the O-line, as has been their stated goal. They know what their cap is and what they still need. 3. Absolutely a double standard in the media. We saw this with both McCoy and now Harvin. I mean before the trade McCoy was considered one of the top 2 backs in the league. After we trade for him? All of a sudden he's an old RB with too many carries on the decline. Pats get either of those players and they're both considered all pros and the Pats are geniuses. 4. It really bothers me when people (and there are a lot of them here) judge a player on one disappointing play (Chandler's fumble in Atlanta game). How many posters have said he has stone hands and can't hold on to the ball? In 5 years, he had a total of 4 fumbles. And as for drops, he has caught 67% of the balls thrown his way. For comparison (granted on many more targets), in the same 5 years, Graham caught 65% of his targets and Gronk caught 56% of his targets. Gresham (who some want) in the same 5 years also has 67% catch rate, but 11 fumbles...so Chandler fumbled once every 46 recs, while Gresham fumbled once every 26 recs. It was time to move on, but Scott was a really solid player for us and a great Bill and I think many have a very distorted view of him because of one play, one loss that was hard to take. 5. It's a one year deal for Harvin...if he's a problem, they can dump him at any time. Plus, although we added Incognito and Harvin, this is a very tight team with a lot of good leadership. And although it feels like we will be a very different team next year, most of the guys from last year will be back, we basically swapped a few skill players and lost 1 safety (I'm still hoping Spikes will be back). Speaking of Spikes, wasn't he going to be trouble too? Ergo he also got a one year deal. But, he meshed in perfectly and loved being a Bill. This locker room is too tight to let one or two guys screw it up. Plus Ritchie and Percy know they have to be on their best behavior. 6. Some of these reporters act as if ground and pound means we're not going to throw the ball at all, so why get a WR. Every coach knows that the best offense is a balanced offense. So, even though the focus will be the run to open the pass, we will still need to pass at least 45% of the time. What we're worried about in the passing game is the accuracy of our QBs in the mid-range game...say 8 to 15 yard throws. So why not get a bunch of guys (McCoy, Sammy, Percy, Fred, etc.) who can take a 5 yard slant and turn it into a 15 yard play, or take a screen 7 or 8 yards, etc. Or take it to the house (as these guys are capable of). Why is it so hard to understand that we still have to throw the ball? We just think a short passing, high YAC passing attack will be the best way to minimize the deficiencies of our current QBs. 7. Anyone, fan or media, who doesn't see that the Bills have just made themselves relevant again are not paying close enough attention. Pegulas + Rex > Marrone Roman > Hackett Defense will at least be just as good (meaning top 5) McCoy > Spiller Incognito > anyone we had Harvin > Hogan Sammy healthy and a year under his belt Robert going into year 3 (a big year for WRs) Rookie O-linemen now 2nd year guys with one of the best O-line coaches and a good offensive blocking scheme Felton blocking EJ/Cassel/Tyrod > EJ/Orton/Tuel or EJ/Thad/Tuel (at worst you could say its a push, but at least this year's QBs will fight for a first down and not immediately collapse to the turf at the first sign of pressure) Our Special Teams were #2 last year and we just added Harvin We could realistically have the best defense and best special teams in the league next year...plus we now have McCoy and Harvin (guys that can take it to the house on offense). We were a 9-7 team last year and just got better in so many areas. Just secure a TE and one or two more O-linemen (it's not too late, with FA still on and the Draft and June 1st cuts still to come) and we are going to be a really tough team to face next year. Damn this kool-aid is good...but I don't think it's spiked this year. I guess we'll see come September. Go Bills!

Was looking at NFL.com story "Where will Percy Land" http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000477119/article/new-england-patriots-lead-percy-harvin-landing-spots They think with the Pats #1. The Bills #2, but the Bills blurb says this: "Our concern is that Harvin might be too similar in skill set to Sammy Watkins, another dangerous ball carrier limited to bubble screens, crossers and the occasional go route." I'm ok with them comparing him to Sammy, but I was surprised to see the "limited to bubble screens, crossers and the occasional go route" in regards to Sammy. I don't think we even saw the best of Sammy last year, and yet I don't remember him being used on only bubble screens and crossers, am I wrong? I mean what routes are they saying he can't run? Outs, hooks? Just found that odd. As to Percy...as others have said, if its an easy contract for the Bills to get out of if things don't work out, I'm all for it. That would be a heck of a lot of playmakers on the field at one time. Who do you double? Can't shade shady and double Sammy and double Percy and even if you could, remember Rex saying when (with the Jets) they doubled Sammy, "That sucker killed us." meaning Robert Woods. And add in Clay, Freddy, Felton, Bryce, Boobie, Chandler, and Hogan. That is one solid set of skill players. Plus we'd keep the Pats from getting him. What kind of havoc could he create in the Welker/Edelman role for Brady?

All hail Donnie Henderson!

I’m confused by both the “we’re giving up a stud for an old guy” posters and the “Eh, Kiko was nothing special group.” I think the truth, as always, lies in neither extreme… First, let’s face it, Kiko is not just a guy who had like 5 good games then his play trailed off and now he’s got a bum knee, no loss. Kiko is a very good, instinctive young player. Did his play trail off his rookie year? Yes, but it happens to most rookies, especially when they’re playing almost every snap (you know, that proverbial rookie wall). Did he at times get blown up or over pursue? Yes, but again that happens to most rookies too. In the NFL, it takes time to learn all of the nuances. But his rookie season sure showed a lot of promise. If he stays healthy, he’s going to be a very good player in this league and maybe, if he keeps progressing and is used properly, great. I’ll miss the “Legend.” But, let’s also face the fact that McCoy is a bonafide, legit, real deal top RB. Are he and CJ similar RBs? Sure. They’re both small, super fast, and can hit the homerun. But the difference is (it seems to me) you have to design for CJ and the play has to really open up for him and then he can have a huge play. Whereas McCoy can create for himself. His football IQ and vision/instincts are better. He's niftier. McCoy reminds me of Thurman, in these aspects: he knows how to properly follow his blockers; he’s great in traffic, even up the middle (he won’t just plow into the pile); and also in his body control…for those worried about his mileage, watch his highlights on youtube…just like Thurman, he never takes the big hits…it’s like he sidesteps, or slips off of tackles. 26/27 is not over the hill for a great RB who doesn’t take a lot of big hits. Plus, we still have Fred, Boobie, and Bryce (even if we don’t draft a RB)…so he can be the main back, but we don’t have to overwork him. We can keep his carries (and therefore Fred’s) to a reasonable level to keep them both fresh. Honestly, this is a win-win trade. Philly dumps McCoy (a RB that apparently didn’t fit Kelly or his system) relieving them of his huge contract/cap hit and get a player that Chip loves who has the potential to be great. And let’s face it, Philly is not trading for him if they are concerned about his knee. And the Bills get a huge upgrade to their RB position for a team that had poor production from that position a year ago and with coaches that want to run the damn ball (due to ? at QB and coaching philosophy). In exchange for Kiko who may not be a perfect fit in Rex’s system, in a position that has some depth (even before FA). Plus, it won’t be long before we’d have to pay big for Kiko. Sure, it would have been great to keep him and he’s too good not to see the field, but if he isn’t the mold Rex wants for his linebackers, then we weren’t going to commit big money to him in the near future with everyone else we’ll have to pay. And even if we only got two more years of top play out of McCoy, if they’re two playoff years isn’t that worth it? Everybody wins, even Kiko and Shady. They both go to teams that really want them, with coaches that plan to play them the way the player wants to be played. So, the only question to ask (without emotion, because we all loved Kiko as a player) is are the Bills a better team? Well, I don’t expect the defense to dip not having Kiko (since he didn’t play last year and we got Rex), but I do expect the run game to improve immensely with McCoy. So, I think the answer is yes. Good Trade! Good luck Kiko! Welcome LeSean! Go Bills!

I live in New York City and know many Jets fans...the majority were sorry to see Rex go (blame FO/lack of talent held him back), think we got a great coach, but one who will be hampered by the same thing as in NY...no QB. They all say we'll love him as coach though. And most of the Jets fans that I've talked to are not thrilled with the Bowles selection for the same reason some Bills fans weren't happy initially with the Rex pick. That they hired a defensive HC when the problem was with the offense. The Miami fans I know just seem perplexed...like Rex being on the Bills rather than the Jets just doesn't compute. Have a lot of Steelers fans in my office who were mixed between either "that seems like a weird fit" to "great hire"

Leroi says "Big splash in the works" which seems to mean soon, so I'm thinking it must be a trade. Can't imagine that a coach (below coordinator level) would be considered a big splash. FA is too far away still. Must be a trade.

I was curious why Leroi chose the avatar he/she did... It is a Lamassu, an Assyrian protective deity. A symbol of power. They were typically placed at the entrances to cities, temples, and palaces as protection and as a symbol of power. Per Wikipedia: The Akkadians associated the god Papsukkal with lamas. (Papsukkal was the messenger god in the Akkadian pantheon). Couldn't figure out how to post a picture, so here's the link to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamassu

At the start of all of this I definitely didn't want Rex as HC. But if he keeps Schwartz and brings in a good OC it could work. Most importantly, Rex has a lot of experience as a HC. As a first time owner, you might not want to bank on a first timer who has to learn how to do the job. Your fan base expects you to win now and you have the defense for it. Plus as someone else said, Rex brings media attention, which is good for marketing. The Pegula's probably want some stability at that position. Also, the interesting thing about Rex and Scwartz teaming up is we know these players on our defense can play either scheme (as demonstrated this year and with Pettine last year in Rex's system). The players know both systems well are already familiar with Rex's schemes and probably terminology. If these two coaches can get along and not be concerned about ego, they could build the meanest hybrid Defense around. Keep us posted Leroi!

Fitzpatrick with a nice rushing TD.

Rule 3, Section 22, Article 4, Item 2 reads: "If the player loses possession of the ball during an attempt to bring it back toward his body, or if the player loses possession after he has tucked the ball into his body, it is a fumble." The rule says during "an attempt" to bring it back OR after it has been tucked away, yet Blandino said the QB has to complete the tuck completely, 100%. So, he completely misquotes the rule. ESPN's Kevin Siefert says: "In this case, we can interpret Manziel's intent while noting that his action didn't meet the threshold for a tuck. Williams didn't give him the chance. Even though Manziel likely was trying to tuck the ball, he didn't officially start that process." So, now we are interpreting player's intent? The threshold for a tuck, really? The rule says the threshold is "an attempt," Blandino says it's "completing the tuck move 100%," and the ESPN guy doesn't specify what that threshold is. But he intimates that Manziel's arm never left the forward throwing motion. Then he admits Manziel was probably trying to tuck (isn't that an attempt according to the rule?). I mean, how can you guess his intent if there is no outward sign of intent, if he "didn't officially start that process," as stated. I guess somewhere between 'not starting the process' and 'showing intent of starting the process' lies this magical "threshold for a Tuck." These guys are bald-face lying for the league...and they even give you a choice between two (albeit contradictory) lies for why the call was reversed. Take your pick. I also noted that on the videos dealing with this call (on NFL.com et al), they only show angles of the play where it is harder to see what happens. They avoid showing the angle where you can clearly see his arm coming back (which everyone who watched the game live saw).

I'm sick of posters stating, "The Pats may have sewn things up already, so we might beat them (in week 17) only because they'll be resting starters." First of all Belicheat doesn't rest starters until the game is well in hand (even if they don't need the game). Second, screw the Pats. I Billieve! If we want to take that next step or even believe we can be a playoff team, you have to beat teams like the Pats (or Den or GB)...and btw, our defense is for real. Yes, the Pats have looked real good the last four weeks with sizable wins over CHI, DEN, IND, and DET before the close loss to GB...but let's look at common opponents between the Bills and the Pats for a moment: The Bills and Pats have faced 6 of the same teams (with the Bills having also already faced the Jets and Dolphins twice, while NE has only faced those 2 teams once each): In those games, the Pats have gone 4-2, while the Bills have gone 6-2. The Pats have scored 29.3 points/game while giving up 23 points/game. The Bills have scored 23.6 points/game (similar to the Pats opponents), but, the Bills have only allowed 15.62 points/game (almost 2 TDs less/game than the Pats gave up to those same teams) So, if the Bills D can keep the Pats to even 1 TD less than they have scored against common opponents, the Bills could win that game. I think our D can pull that off if we don't turn the ball over three times like we did in the first match-up with the Pats. Protect the ball and we can win. I don't think this team is intimidated by anyone and they've played well on the road. We've got a shot. And Pepper and Spikes want some revenge dammit! DEN, GB, and OAK come first, but if we can come out of that stretch with 2 wins, confidence, and the playoffs on the line, we can beat the Patriots straight up. Let's start having some faith as fans, and stop conceding games to the Cheatriots! I'm sick of it. Let's take it to them for once! It's still a steep hill, I know...and beating up on the Jets and Cleveland doest make us world beaters, but I want to see the playoffs this year! And I'm tired of chalking up two automatic loses when the schedule comes out each year. May the reign of terror start it's decline on December 28th!