Jon Kitna

[mrpunchy]

Why wouldn't we want to? We will need a veteran backup next year. He has been productive. I bet a conditional 6 or 7th round pick could get it done. And, as much as I like Trent he has an injury history. Kitna is signed through 2009. His current salary is $2.95 million. Next year, it drops to $1.95 million.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Why wouldn't we want to?

 

Hamdan.

[The Dean]

Why wouldn't we want to?

 

 

Well, maybe because he has turned into your basic whiny former starter that won't accept his backup role and bitches about it to the press.

 

That's one reason, I can think of, right off.

[davefan66]

Why wouldn't we want to? We will need a veteran backup next year. He has been productive. I bet a conditional 6 or 7th round pick could get it done. And, as much as I like Trent he has an injury history. Kitna is signed through 2009. His current salary is $2.95 million. Next year, it drops to $1.95 million.

 

He is a shell of his former self....not that he was that great anyway.

 

And we have Hamden who looked pretty good in preseason.

[Phlegm Alley]

Just read on the ESPN news ticker that Kitna will be put on IR if they cant trade him.

 

In other words, no.

[LABills08]

Hamdan.

 

In all seriousness, Is Hamdan actually good? I mean I know he is a 3rd string QB, but if it weren't for Losman would he actually be a 2nd string QB? This is a serious question, I know nothing about him.

[Chandler#81]

In all seriousness, Is Hamdan actually good? I mean I know he is a 3rd string QB, but if it weren't for Losman would he actually be a 2nd string QB? This is a serious question, I know nothing about him.

 

Well actually, you do. In the eyes of the FO @ OBD, he isn't good enough to unseat J.P. Losman as the Bills back up QB. You could google his name and learn about his diverse upbringing and his exploits as a semi-pro, but I wouldn't encourage such a waste of time when the bold statement tells you all you need to know.

[stephenjames716]

no!

[Fewell733]

Kitna is an awful quarterback and totally delusional about his own skills. He is inaccurate, makes terrible decisions with the football, takes bad sacks, fumbles when sacked, and is as arrogant as they come.

 

No team is better with him on it.

[Bill from NYC]

In all seriousness, Is Hamdan actually good? I mean I know he is a 3rd string QB, but if it weren't for Losman would he actually be a 2nd string QB? This is a serious question, I know nothing about him.

 

Neither does anyone else, other than the fact that he is/was a crutch for those who wanted JP to get another chance. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ramius]

Neither does anyone else, other than the fact that he is/was a crutch for those who wanted JP to get another chance. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

You don't have the foggiest.

[Bill from NYC]

You don't have the foggiest.

 

OK, please give us a recap of Hamdans NFL experience, if you have the time. It might take a while, no?

[Thoner7]

Kitna is an awful quarterback and totally delusional about his own skills. He is inaccurate, makes terrible decisions with the football, takes bad sacks, fumbles when sacked, and is as arrogant as they come.

No team is better with him on it.

 

Are you talking about JP or Kitna?

[EndZoneCrew]

no

[Ramius]

OK, please give us a recap of Hamdans NFL experience, if you have the time. It might take a while, no?

 

Nah its more fun to watch you writhe and gnash your teeth and try and tie every little thing to JP Losman, who you have a strange obsession with.

 

However, it IS highly ironic that you, of all people, think that the Hamdan love is about Losman.

[LABills08]

In that case, it appears likely the Bills will draft a QB in the later rounds of hte 2009 draft. Losman will be off the books and it will probably be time to develop a worth backup to Edwards. Either that or we sign a veteran presence, but drafting a QB would probably be cheaper.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Nah its more fun to watch you writhe and gnash your teeth and try and tie every little thing to JP Losman, who you have a strange obsession with.

 

However, it IS highly ironic that you, of all people, think that the Hamdan love is about Losman.

 

 

Come on Ramius, of course it is. Outside of one or two earnest Europeans out there, all of the Hamdan hype was an ironic campaign by people who felt that Trent was nothing but a shiny penny. That is why they invented the word "Chroise" and the like. Hence the references to the Hamdan bandwagon, of which at least one poster said in his avatar that he was "beating the crowd" by starting up. Anyone who has visited this board as much as you should know that.

[The Dean]

Neither does anyone else, other than the fact that he is/was a crutch for those who wanted JP to get another chance. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I think there are perhaps two other people on The Wall who would come up with that interpretation...but, the other two are stupid. Bill. This is simply a bizarre interpretation of the Hamdan love from last year.

[Dan]

Simply put... Hamdan Rocks!

[bizell]

he's on da IR now.

[mrpunchy]

Well you guys have more faith in Hamdan than I do. Kitna has thrown for over 4,000 yards the last two years. I know nothing about his ego but JP certainly appeared to have one as well. Regardless, I thought it a better plan than JP whom I am sorry gave us what he is in a game last week. Great arm-- not accurate and poor decisions. That is his career here in Buffalo. We are going to need to have a backup that the bills feel can win. Do you really think that Hamdan can come off the bench and win? I know little of him.

[Orton's Arm]

I think there are perhaps two other people on The Wall who would come up with that interpretation...but, the other two are stupid. Bill. This is simply a bizarre interpretation of the Hamdan love from last year.

What makes you say that, Dean? If I recall correctly, the Hamdan fan club suddenly appeared once Edwards was made the starter. Its nucleus consisted of die-hard members of the Losman camp. (As well as one or two Europeans who were actually serious about their pro-Hamdan statements.) If the Hamdan fan club wasn't about Losman, then please explain to me why it proved so attractive to those who were most optimistic about Losman, and why those who had a more pessimistic/realistic view of Losman didn't join the Hamdan fan club.

[stuckincincy]

Well, maybe because he has turned into your basic whiny former starter that won't accept his backup role and bitches about it to the press.

 

That's one reason, I can think of, right off.

 

 

Uh...I'd say the undrafted Kitna, who kept his trap shut for years, who graciously bowed out in deference to Palmer after winning Comeback Player honors, who eventually took a job with DET...is allowed to vent a small amount of steam after his 11th year of being adequate enough to earn a roster spot. Even with his small hands.

 

He's now on season-ending IR with the back injury. Even though he was being whiny in wanting to play, as you say...

[nuklz2594]

Would you trade JP to the Lions for a 3rd rounder they just picked up?

[ans4e64]

Trade deadline is over, so the next possible time you could trade him would be after the season, which he is a free agent and the Lions could just sign him

[C.Biscuit97]

Would you trade JP to the Lions for a 3rd rounder they just picked up?

 

 

If you were the Lions, would you trade a 3rd rounder for Losman?

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

Not when they already have Orlovsky and Stanton on the roster. They will also have some very nice draft picks, with some very good quality QBs coming out in this year's draft.

 

Losman does not offer much more than those 2 named above, except for a little more scrambling ability and some rotten experience.

[Steely Dan]

Not when they already have Orlovsky and Stanton on the roster. They will also have some very nice draft picks, with some very good quality QBs coming out in this year's draft.

 

Losman does not offer much more than those 2 named above, except for a little more scrambling ability and some rotten experience.

 

Stanton was drafted as their QB of the future. Just another QB taken before TE. Let's see if this guy makes Detroit look smart and makes people miss Millen!

[apuszczalowski]

Come on Ramius, of course it is. Outside of one or two earnest Europeans out there, all of the Hamdan hype was an ironic campaign by people who felt that Trent was nothing but a shiny penny. That is why they invented the word "Chroise" and the like. Hence the references to the Hamdan bandwagon, of which at least one poster said in his avatar that he was "beating the crowd" by starting up. Anyone who has visited this board as much as you should know that.

That was me, and it didn't really have anything to do with Losman or Edwards, it had to do with the love for the backup QB over whomever was in there at that point.

 

You can go back a long time and always find a large group clamoring for them to put someone else in cause the backup is always better since Kelly was about to retire. Flutie over Johnson, Losman over Bledsoe, Edwards over Losman, so I started the Hamdan bandwagon to get a head start. People were already saying Edwards should start over Losman last season cause of "Poise" and what he showed in the pre-season. He had the same amount of experience as Hamdan in the regular season, so I figuredit was a matter of time..............

 

Although i wouldnt discredit Hamdan as being just a scrub 3rd stringer who is not capable of being a #2 in this league, or being a very good QB. He was a very good QB in NFL Europe and I believe he was one of the better players there. The bills obviously see something in him to keep him around and give him a roster spot keeping 3 QB's

[Orton's Arm]

It had to do with the love for the backup QB over whomever was in there at that point. . . .

People were already saying Edwards should start over Losman last season cause of "Poise" and what he showed in the pre-season.

In other words, the point of the Hamdan club was to show that the only reason people wanted Edwards to start over Losman was because there is always going to be someone who prefers the backup over the starter. The fact that this club was poking fun at Edwards supporters is probably why the only two types of people who joined it were diehard Losman enthusiasts and maybe one or two Europeans genuinely excited about Hamdan.

 

If you guys want to have an annoying fan club to shower false praise on a 3rd string QB, as a way of poking fun at Edwards supporters, go ahead. But it's disingenuous to pretend (as some in this thread have) that the fan club had nothing to do with a preference for Losman over Edwards.

[The Dean]

In other words, the point of the Hamdan club was to show that the only reason people wanted Edwards to start over Losman was because there is always going to be someone who prefers the backup over the starter. The fact that this club was poking fun at Edwards supporters is probably why the only two types of people who joined it were diehard Losman enthusiasts and maybe one or two Europeans genuinely excited about Hamdan.

 

If you guys want to have an annoying fan club to shower false praise on a 3rd string QB, as a way of poking fun at Edwards supporters, go ahead. But it's disingenuous to pretend (as some in this thread have) that the fan club had nothing to do with a preference for Losman over Edwards.

 

 

Again, this is so far from a neutral or accurate interpretation of what was meant by the "Hamdam craze" (my poor term, simply for this post), that it suggests you either won't, or can't, attempt to understand things other than through your already formed preconceptions (and with any sort of sense of humor).

 

Now, let me be clear about a few things: I didn't start the whole Chroise thing. As apus, mentions the Hamdan craze came from him, and was expanded with the help of a few other (normally fairly humorous) posters. I am simply sharing MY interpretation (which has already been, mostly, confirmed by apus). And, I hesitate to respond to your posts, as I have learned in the past, that sensible explanations rarely to far with you. I won't get into a back-and-forth with you about this, I will just lay it out, as I see it. Accept it, argue with yourself (or others), I don't really care.

 

OK, in order to understand the spirit of the Hamdan craze (Chroise and the like), in the spirit which it was intended (IMO) is to forget the rhetorical crap such as ""Losman camp", "Losman supporter", "Edwards supporters", "diehard Losman enthusiasts", etc. They don't really do anything except show that you see the fans as divided into two separate camps, and suggest you don't understand that many (if not most of us) are BILLS' FANS, BILLS' SUPPORTERS and BILLS' ENTHUSIASTS and support Trent, JP, and even Gibran.

 

Now I will give you that I see the Hamdam craze as, perhaps, a reaction to the relentless and vicious bashing of JP, by some members of TSW, but that is because these posters are Bills fans and, if they are like me, don't see the world in Black and White (you're GREAT or you SUCK) as do some of the poster's here...not because they were whining that Trent replaced JP. Again, this reaction MAY have played some small role, I'm not sure. (But, I will throw you that bone.)

 

But. it goes much further than that. Again, as apus mentions, it makes fun of the love of the backup among some posters (especially if the starter is struggling) and (at least the way I see it) the effusive praise that is often used to describe the "new guy"...until the ugly mob turns on him, and starts looking toward the new savior...the new #2 QB. The idea was, "let's get ahead of the ugly mob, and just start loving the new #2 NOW, as it is likely only a matter of time before they start trashing Trent". Mostly, of course, it was meant as a JOKE, to be funny. C'mon HA you know what I am talking about...humor.

 

So, I'm not sure if you get that, or not. Perhaps you have to believe that it HAS to have a serious negative basis, and is meant to disparage. If you have to believe that, then think of it this way: It's poking fun at you, not Trent. Does that help?

[thebug]

Again, this is so far from a neutral or accurate interpretation of what was meant by the "Hamdam craze" (my poor term, simply for this post), that it suggests you either won't, or can't, attempt to understand things other than through your already formed preconceptions (and with any sort of sense of humor).

 

Now, let me be clear about a few things: I didn't start the whole Chroise thing. As apus, mentions the Hamdan craze came from him, and was expanded with the help of a few other (normally fairly humorous) posters. I am simply sharing MY interpretation (which has already been, mostly, confirmed by apus). And, I hesitate to respond to your posts, as I have learned in the past, that sensible explanations rarely to far with you. I won't get into a back-and-forth with you about this, I will just lay it out, as I see it. Accept it, argue with yourself (or others), I don't really care.

 

OK, in order to understand the spirit of the Hamdan craze (Chroise and the like), in the spirit which it was intended (IMO) is to forget the rhetorical crap such as ""Losman camp", "Losman supporter", "Edwards supporters", "diehard Losman enthusiasts", etc. They don't really do anything except show that you see the fans as divided into two separate camps, and suggest you don't understand that many (if not most of us) are BILLS' FANS, BILLS' SUPPORTERS and BILLS' ENTHUSIASTS and support Trent, JP, and even Gibran.

 

Now I will give you that I see the Hamdam craze as, perhaps, a reaction to the relentless and vicious bashing of JP, by some members of TSW, but that is because these posters are Bills fans and, if they are like me, don't see the world in Black and White (you're GREAT or you SUCK) as do some of the poster's here...not because they were whining that Trent replaced JP. Again, this reaction MAY have played some small role, I'm not sure. (But, I will throw you that bone.)

 

But. it goes much further than that. Again, as apus mentions, it makes fun of the love of the backup among some posters (especially if the starter is struggling) and (at least the way I see it) the effusive praise that is often used to describe the "new guy"...until the ugly mob turns on him, and starts looking toward the new savior...the new #2 QB. The idea was, "let's get ahead of the ugly mob, and just start loving the new #2 NOW, as it is likely only a matter of time before they start trashing Trent". Mostly, of course, it was meant as a JOKE, to be funny. C'mon HA you know what I am talking about...humor.

 

So, I'm not sure if you get that, or not. Perhaps you have to believe that it HAS to have a serious negative basis, and is meant to disparage. If you have to believe that, then think of it this way: It's poking fun at you, not Trent. Does that help?

 

 

Dean I'm not sure if you were around much during the inception of the so called "fanclub" but I think Holcombs Arm has a point on this one. At the time the "fanclub" was clearly started by a bunch of disgruntled JP fans who no matter what, could not see what Trent Edwards had to offer. At the time the word poise was a negative on this site and the JP supporters were sick of hearing how much "poise" Trent Edwards had and couldn't bring themselves to support Trent so they created the word "chroise" for Hamdan and said he was the man.

 

I think anyone who was involved in the thread had a pretty clear understanding of what was going on. I posted in that thread often and it was nothing more than a JP vs Trent thread like the rest of them, except for the JP fans were taking Hamdan over Trent because he had "Chroise" and Trent only had "poise".

 

Sure things changed a little after the "crash" and after the fact that Trent started to win over a bunch of these same people, but the initial reason for the "fanclub" is clear, to me anyway. Just my thoughts.

[Bill from NYC]

Dean I'm not sure if you were around much during the inception of the so called "fanclub" but I think Holcombs Arm has a point on this one. At the time the "fanclub" was clearly started by a bunch of disgruntled JP fans who no matter what, could not see what Trent Edwards had to offer. At the time the word poise was a negative on this site and the JP supporters were sick of hearing how much "poise" Trent Edwards had and couldn't bring themselves to support Trent so they created the word "chroise" for Hamdan and said he was the man.

 

I think anyone who was involved in the thread had a pretty clear understanding of what was going on. I posted in that thread often and it was nothing more than a JP vs Trent thread like the rest of them, except for the JP fans were taking Hamdan over Trent because he had "Chroise" and Trent only had "poise".

 

Sure things changed a little after the "crash" and after the fact that Trent started to win over a bunch of these same people, but the initial reason for the "fanclub" is clear, to me anyway. Just my thoughts.

 

I fully agree, and the only thing that I will add is that Trent took at least as much heat as Dean-o states that Losman took. "Noodle Arm" was a common name he was called, and there were even people ridiculing the looks of his sister.

 

I for one am thankful that the issue has been settled, although if Trent has 1 bad game, which is extremely common for a young qb, expect to hear some calls for Losman to start.

[DPR4444]

Kitna is an awful quarterback and totally delusional about his own skills. He is inaccurate, makes terrible decisions with the football, takes bad sacks, fumbles when sacked, and is as arrogant as they come.

 

No team is better with him on it.

 

 

he's also a terrible prognosticator -- remember that 10-win season prediction?

 

[CJPearl2]

And he's out for the season.

[Dan]

I think it important to note that different people are attracted to th Chroisen one for different reasons. The origins, as with many great movements, very often become muted through time. Do people drink Light beer because it tastes great or because it's less filling? It doesn't really matter as long as they're drinking it. And such is the case with Hamdan. Some are thankful he's on our team and sing his praises because he's not JP, some because he's not Trent, some because he has Chroise, some because they've seen him play in Europe, some because they think he's hot - regardless we all appreciate and support a fellow Bill. I applaud that.

 

But, let's not lose sight of what's important - Hamdan is on our team and, of course, he rocks. Trent has already stated that it's through Hamdan's guidance in late night meetings that has made him the QB he is today. So, would we better off without Hamdan? I say no. Trent's poise is entwined with Hamdan's chroise. So relax and embrace the Chroise and all will be forgiven.

 

Now drink up.

[hooski 1]

Kitna is an awful quarterback and totally delusional about his own skills. He is inaccurate, makes terrible decisions with the football, takes bad sacks, fumbles when sacked, and is as arrogant as they come.

 

No team is better with him on it.

but one thing about Kitna, he's always beat'in our Bills no matter what team he's been on

[Captain Hindsight]

I think it important to note that different people are attracted to th Chroisen one for different reasons. The origins, as with many great movements, very often become muted through time. Do people drink Light beer because it tastes great or because it's less filling? It doesn't really matter as long as they're drinking it. And such is the case with Hamdan. Some are thankful he's on our team and sing his praises because he's not JP, some because he's not Trent, some because he has Chroise, some because they've seen him play in Europe, some because they think he's hot - regardless we all appreciate and support a fellow Bill. I applaud that.

 

But, let's not lose sight of what's important - Hamdan is on our team and, of course, he rocks. Trent has already stated that it's through Hamdan's guidance in late night meetings that has made him the QB he is today. So, would we better off without Hamdan? I say no. Trent's poise is entwined with Hamdan's chroise. So relax and embrace the Chroise and all will be forgiven.

 

Now drink up.

[ExWNYer]

I fully agree, and the only thing that I will add is that Trent took at least as much heat as Dean-o states that Losman took. "Noodle Arm" was a common name he was called, and there were even people ridiculing the looks of his sister.

 

I for one am thankful that the issue has been settled, although if Trent has 1 bad game, which is extremely common for a young qb, expect to hear some calls for Losman to start.

Bill, as you know, this dates back far before the current QBs on this team. Buffalo fans have always had a weird obsession with the backup QB(s). Kelly vs. Reich is well documented but this obsession dates back to the '70s with Joe Ferguson vs. Gary Marangi and even the '60s with Jack Kemp vs. Darryl Lamonica. It seems to come with the territory if you follow the Bills. I, for one, am glad that the team has seemingly found it's heir apparent in Trent Edwards. That being said, I support whoever is on the field trying to win for the Bills whether it's the QB or any other positional player. I think the "need to be right" syndrome exhibited by many around here is absolutely assinine. Do these "fans" want the Bills to win or is it more important to satisfy their massive egos by being "right"??

[WellDressed]

Because Mark Brunell can be had for cheap.