Lori Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 It's the same thing they put Steve Christie on when they knew he wouldn't be ready for a couple weeks and then signed Jake Arians and eventually Shayne Graham. 772069[/snapback] Right; Christie ended up in San Diego that year, IIRC. Thanks, theesir. You covered everything in my notes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 Right; Christie ended up in San Diego that year, IIRC. Thanks, theesir. You covered everything in my notes... 772081[/snapback] See you in a week!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I guess this is the end of Vincent's career as a Bill. So let's look at his accomplishments during his tenure... 1. Broke JP's leg 2. Locker room lawyer 3. NFLPA bigshot That's all I can come up with. Troy we hardly knew ye. Thanks for the coaching offer, but that's what we have COACHES for. 772043[/snapback] Locker room lawyer? That's usually used in a pejorative sense (although I'm not sure if that's how you meant it). I have no indication TV was anything but a positive influence in the locker room. NFLPA bigshot: Again, it seems like you mean that to be a negative (I'm getting that from "bigshot") perhaps I'm mistaken. I think having the President of the NFLPA on the team is, at worst, a neutral thing. More likely, it is a big positive. Troy didn't end up bringing much to the Bills on the field (mostly due to injury) and he could never match what we lost in Winfield. But, as others have mentioned, the guy is a class act and I wish him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 some people did not think he would be here this year . if he can help the new kids in anyway it is a plus for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Locker room lawyer? That's usually used in a pejorative sense (although I'm not sure if that's how you meant it). I have no indication TV was anything but a positive influence in the locker room. NFLPA bigshot: Again, it seems like you mean that to be a negative (I'm getting that from "bigshot") perhaps I'm mistaken. I think having the President of the NFLPA on the team is, at worst, a neutral thing. More likely, it is a big positive. Troy didn't end up bringing much to the Bills on the field (mostly due to injury) and he could never match what we lost in Winfield. But, as others have mentioned, the guy is a class act and I wish him well. 772095[/snapback] pejorative? Sorry, but I'm too lazy to look up the meaning. This is all I could come up with for Troy's legacy. He's a union big shot who broke JP's leg. I meant locker room lawyer in the sense that he was in there spreading the union gospel, but I could be mixing him up with someone else. Either way...he has no legacy as a Bill other than this and will not be missed except by the training staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 pejorative? Sorry, but I'm too lazy to look up the meaning. This is all I could come up with for Troy's legacy. He's a union big shot who broke JP's leg. I meant locker room lawyer in the sense that he was in there spreading the union gospel, but I could be mixing him up with someone else. Either way...he has no legacy as a Bill other than this and will not be missed except by the training staff. 772112[/snapback] I disagree totally. Vincent is an amazing teammate. It has been reported a lot that he took Evans aside and worked him after practice all the time and was partly responsible for Lee becoming a good WR so quick. He has already taken the safeties aside and is teaching them how to break down film that coaches don't do. The term "locker room lawyer" is a knock on him and probably shouldn't be used, although not being in the locker room I don't know for sure. The fact that he is head of the players union actually is good reason why he is NOT a locker room lawyer or cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I disagree totally. Vincent is an amazing teammate. It has been reported a lot that he took Evans aside and worked him after practice all the time and was partly responsible for Lee becoming a good WR so quick. He has already taken the safeties aside and is teaching them how to break down film that coaches don't do. The term "locker room lawyer" is a knock on him and probably shouldn't be used, although not being in the locker room I don't know for sure. The fact that he is head of the players union actually is good reason why he is NOT a locker room lawyer or cancer. 772117[/snapback] ...or Evans has become a very good WR because he is super talented and has a good WR coach in Tyke Tolbert. Nobody knows for sure, but the Vincent helping Evans story made for good copy at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I disagree totally. Vincent is an amazing teammate. It has been reported a lot that he took Evans aside and worked him after practice all the time and was partly responsible for Lee becoming a good WR so quick. He has already taken the safeties aside and is teaching them how to break down film that coaches don't do. The term "locker room lawyer" is a knock on him and probably shouldn't be used, although not being in the locker room I don't know for sure. The fact that he is head of the players union actually is good reason why he is NOT a locker room lawyer or cancer. 772117[/snapback] I agree with you. I hope that the Bills can find a way to keep him around for the year to help out the young players as a de facto coach. It would be too bad if they had to waive him in 4-6 weeks. P.S. It is kind of funny how some people are still mad at him for breaking JP's leg. The last time I checked, football was a contact sport and JP did not fault Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I agree with you. I hope that the Bills can find a way to keep him around for the year to help out the young players as a de facto coach. It would be too bad if they had to waive him in 4-6 weeks. P.S. It is kind of funny how some people are still mad at him for breaking JP's leg. The last time I checked, football was a contact sport and JP did not fault Troy. 772126[/snapback] It's the Bills choice if they want to waive him or not, not his. He is eligible to be waived after six weeks following the injury. They can waive him and give him an injury settlement. He still has 2-3 years at 3 million per season salary so that is what they may wish to do. But they may want to keep him. Again, I think they don't know themselves and will decide a month or two from now after they see Ko play and more of Bowen and Leonhard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 ...or Evans has become a very good WR because he is super talented and has a good WR coach in Tyke Tolbert. Nobody knows for sure, but the Vincent helping Evans story made for good copy at the very least. 772124[/snapback] I don't think I have ever heard of another CB taking a rookie WR aside after practice and teaching him how to beat CBs. I'm sure it has happened before but I never saw that anywhere. I think it was Evans, too, who said what a big help it was. It wasn't Vincent tooting his own horn. Vincent was tooting his own horn a little just now on WGR when he said thaat HE was the one that unprovoked went to Andy Reid and told him to draft CBs before they drafted the two guys that took TV's job, because he thought the team needed young corners. The guy is a total pro and great locker room guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Don't forget the hours he spent on the field with young receivers and DB's after practice helping them. Evans two years ago in particular. 772049[/snapback] Very good, thank you for bringing this up. Troy still has tons of value when it comes to working with the younger players. I hope he sticks to his offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 It's the Bills choice if they want to waive him or not, not his. He is eligible to be waived after six weeks following the injury. They can waive him and give him an injury settlement. He still has 2-3 years at 3 million per season salary so that is what they may wish to do. But they may want to keep him. Again, I think they don't know themselves and will decide a month or two from now after they see Ko play and more of Bowen and Leonhard. 772127[/snapback] He's gone. They're not going to keep him around because he wants to play & has been ultra careful today to say all the right things, to make sure the Bills release him without any bridges burned-heck in a year or 2 he might return as a coach or coach in training-but for now he wants to play and the Bills will not stand in his way. They've already decided they like what they've seen in Ko Simpson, otherwise they would have cut a guy like Aaron Merz & put him on the PS instead of Stith and then re-signed Leonhard if they felt they needed a healthy body at S. I doubt the league is hovering over the waiver wire hoping to claim Aaron Merz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 He must be waived when healthy, WGR interviewed Hub Arkish & he says if he's claimed he goes to the team, otherwise he's free to sign with anyone, the Bills included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasker Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I'm sorry to see him go, and think he is a true professional. However I wouldn't get too worried about "rebuilding" stages, etc. We are already as far into that as we are going to get, and I wouldn't be surprised if Ko is a better "now" player as well as a better future player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 He's gone. They're not going to keep him around because he wants to play & has been ultra careful today to say all the right things, to make sure the Bills release him without any bridges burned-heck in a year or 2 he might return as a coach or coach in training-but for now he wants to play and the Bills will not stand in his way. They've already decided they like what they've seen in Ko Simpson, otherwise they would have cut a guy like Aaron Merz & put him on the PS instead of Stith and then re-signed Leonhard if they felt they needed a healthy body at S. I doubt the league is hovering over the waiver wire hoping to claim Aaron Merz. 772158[/snapback] Merz had nothing to do with it. The Bills had to keep 5 safeties already because of Bowen's injury. They surely weren't going to keep six. Yes, Vincent was saying all the right things in his interview but that's because he's smart and he's the union head. There couldn't have been anything other than what he said. he also hesitated when they asked him if he was going to play again, then it seemed to me he knew what he had to say and then said it. I do think he's likely gone but what if Simpson gets a bad injury or Leonhard totally sucks or Vincent proves to be very valuable as a locker room guy and teacher. Plus, no one knows how long Vincent is going to be out with a hammy at 35 or whether someone else would even want him halfway through the year. Chances are, he's gone. But it is not written in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I 90 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Great guy, true professional. Just could not escape the stink of Dolphin. Fair thee well, TV. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Why couldnt it be Coy who injured his hamstring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 ...or Evans has become a very good WR because he is super talented and has a good WR coach in Tyke Tolbert. Nobody knows for sure, but the Vincent helping Evans story made for good copy at the very least. 772124[/snapback] I remember an extensive TC write-up from someone here, Rockpile, I think. Also, I think someone linked photos that showed them practicing for awhile after everyone else left a week or two later. And, as someone else pinted out, Evans sung Troy's praise for the extra help in a couple interviews, saying all the right things himself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 P.S. It is kind of funny how some people are still mad at him for breaking JP's leg. The last time I checked, football was a contact sport and JP did not fault Troy. 772126[/snapback] And last time *I* checked, you dont hit the QB who is wearing a bright red "you cant hit me" jersey during training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I was, thanks. Sounds like Troy isn't pissed about the move. Which is good. 772041[/snapback] why would he be. His 2006 salary is now guaranteed. shoulds have cut him before the opener. At least they got rid of the veteran presence lobbying for Kelly HOlcomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 That is for sure. 772054[/snapback] Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenews Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 why would he be. His 2006 salary is now guaranteed. shoulds have cut him before the opener. At least they got rid of the veteran presence lobbying for Kelly HOlcomb. 772202[/snapback] not so fast.....if he is cut after six week on IR and another team claims him the Bills are off the hook for the rest of his contract. They are only responsible for remaining signing bonus!!! He's out of here!!! I hope he ends up in Houston with his buddy Moulds!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I guess this is the end of Vincent's career as a Bill. So let's look at his accomplishments during his tenure... 1. Broke JP's leg 2. Locker room lawyer 3. NFLPA bigshot That's all I can come up with. Troy we hardly knew ye. Thanks for the coaching offer, but that's what we have COACHES for. 772043[/snapback] Pretty harsh assessment. He strikes me as a class act, someone who took the time to help the rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 He's gone. They've already decided they like what they've seen in Ko Simpson, otherwise they would have cut a guy like Aaron Merz & put him on the PS instead of Stith and then re-signed Leonhard if they felt they needed a healthy body at S. I doubt the league is hovering over the waiver wire hoping to claim Aaron Merz. 772158[/snapback] You never know. Bellichek may need a guy like Merz for the rematch in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 For the record, on the radio today, TV said he asked Jauron if he could stick around and help out the rookie safeties and Jauron said yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsAlum Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I don't quite understand the vitriol towards Vincent. The guy has been nothing short of a role model for the younger players. In a league with TO and others of his ilk, I'd take a team full of Troy Vincents and day. Class and professionalism. Isn't that how we want our Bills to behave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Locker room lawyer? That's usually used in a pejorative sense (although I'm not sure if that's how you meant it). I have no indication TV was anything but a positive influence in the locker room. NFLPA bigshot: Again, it seems like you mean that to be a negative (I'm getting that from "bigshot") perhaps I'm mistaken. I think having the President of the NFLPA on the team is, at worst, a neutral thing. More likely, it is a big positive. Troy didn't end up bringing much to the Bills on the field (mostly due to injury) and he could never match what we lost in Winfield. But, as others have mentioned, the guy is a class act and I wish him well. 772095[/snapback] This quote was from an article earlier this year that I've lost the link for In his role as NFLPA president, Vincent understandably has a pro-player mind-set. There is some thought that in a few areas, like counseling teammates on contract negotiations and playing hurt, that stance had some effect on the Bills' locker room in 2005 Sure it proves nothing - but I find it highly believable that there were times Troy has tutored individuals on what their rights are and what is in their 'best interest' from a NFLPA perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I don't quite understand the vitriol towards Vincent. The guy has been nothing short of a role model for the younger players. In a league with TO and others of his ilk, I'd take a team full of Troy Vincents and day. Class and professionalism. Isn't that how we want our Bills to behave? 772268[/snapback] No argument, TV's a classy guy. But perhaps it has something to do with this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Different situation, Scott. Last year, the players thought they had a decent chance to continue their late '04 run, and felt like the rug was pulled out from under them when TD dumped Bledsoe and tossed the car keys to the kid. This time around, there's young'uns all over the roster, TD is gone, most of the coaches are gone. While guys like TKO might want to keep talking the talk about "this is not a rebuilding season", deep down they have to know the reality. I don't blame Takeo for hating the idea; he thought he was coming to a playoff-caliber team. I don't think Losman gets the brunt of the blame this time, though. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Someone mentioned this on another board, and I think it was a good point, Takeo is getting pissed and fed up with all the moves the franchise is making, his comments after Vincent was put on IR suggest this, we all remember last year when the team imploded after the Tampa loss, are we on the same track as last year? Mularkey lost the team last year, and perhaps the group in the locker room still wants the veteran behind center. The philosophy of saying screw the team to develop JP, is something veterans don't like, and I would think Takeo doesn't like JP too much because of this. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, and lets hope JP doesn't sh-- the bed this week, because if he does im sure you'll here more groans, and frustration out of the veterans of the football team, and will only affect the play of the football team, as we all saw last year. 772335[/snapback] At one point this past week, you posted a comment that was agreeing with me on one point or another. I don't remember what it was, but I need you to do me a small favor. Please never agree with me on anything again. Nothing personal. It's just...you don't make sense, so if you're going to agree with me on something, it means I don't make sense. So please never agree with me again. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 TKO has no problem with JP whatsoever. He just wants to go to the playoffs and doesn't care how they do it. That's the bottom line. Someone mentioned this on another board, and I think it was a good point, Takeo is getting pissed and fed up with all the moves the franchise is making, his comments after Vincent was put on IR suggest this, we all remember last year when the team imploded after the Tampa loss, are we on the same track as last year? Mularkey lost the team last year, and perhaps the group in the locker room still wants the veteran behind center. The philosophy of saying screw the team to develop JP, is something veterans don't like, and I would think Takeo doesn't like JP too much because of this. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, and lets hope JP doesn't sh-- the bed this week, because if he does im sure you'll here more groans, and frustration out of the veterans of the football team, and will only affect the play of the football team, as we all saw last year. 772335[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I guess this is the end of Vincent's career as a Bill. So let's look at his accomplishments during his tenure... 1. Broke JP's leg 2. Locker room lawyer 3. NFLPA bigshot That's all I can come up with. Troy we hardly knew ye. Thanks for the coaching offer, but that's what we have COACHES for. 772043[/snapback] Actually in addition to the other items pointed out in this thread you should add to his accomplishments: 1. The simple fact i routinely mention but people seem to tend to ignore that he tied for the lead in both INTs and FRs on this turnover starved team last year. 2. One post hoped he would go to TX with is buddy Moulds, but the most interesting thing to me about this situation was that while the NFLPA did file a grievance on behalf of that idiot TO when Philly suspended him, they somehow found a way not to try to protecty Moulds when got suspended despite the NFLPA Pres being right there. Who knows for sure outside the locker room what went down, but the support for Moulds from his teammates was deafening in its silence and I suspect that Moulds ran rather than walked from this team is because he found no support for his stupid whining from his teammates including his alleged buddy TV. Locker room lawyer? Well the lawyer seemed to be on the right side of this case. 3. There is objective evidence that he was a positive team leader as it was written up that he organized classes at an Ivy League school in business and to get credits toward an MBA which was attended by several Bills including TKO. While some folks seem bitter about TV for no objective reason they have expressed, I think you actually see support being expressed for him as a player because he has been a consistent voice for repsonsible action by players for the game that has brought them wealth and for themselves. As a Bills fan i had hoped we would get at least 6-8 games out of him before he broke down as he is well into the backside of his career, but alas that did not happen. Fortunately Kp Simpson looked good last weekend and though like any rookie he will almost certainly make some mistakes lets hope they do not come at critical times and that he learns from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What football really needs for its rosters is some version of the 15 & 60 day DL that baseball has. Not every 4-5 week injury should force a team to choose between playing shorthanded or jettisoning a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What football really needs for its rosters is some version of the 15 & 60 day DL that baseball has. Not every 4-5 week injury should force a team to choose between playing shorthanded or jettisoning a player. 772499[/snapback] Now that makes sense. There are too many injuries, and too many guys willing to play or hang on via practice squad or whatever, that this shouldn't be the case. I could easily see a 6-or-8 week injury list that allows re-activation to the roster. It's enough time off that a team won't just throw one player on it to stockpile others, but enough time for a reasonable sub to fill in and pick up some NFL time off the squad. I mean, look, TV is getting his full contract from the Buffalo Bills this year regardless. I know people say that the NFL contracts aren't fully guaranteed from year-to-year, but that is a boon for the player, really, in a year in which he is entirely free to recover without any return on the investment for the team. One would think that as long as a team isn't rushing a player back and the player wants to play, the team could make other arrangements while he heals. Of course, this could change the whole way the NFL runs and would not be something to be taken lightly, but I think a reasonable number, like 2, injury spots that can be subject to re-activation should be allowed per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 What football really needs for its rosters is some version of the 15 & 60 day DL that baseball has. Not every 4-5 week injury should force a team to choose between playing shorthanded or jettisoning a player. 772499[/snapback] That makes complete sense. I have nothing to add because your idea is simple and complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Why couldnt it be Coy who injured his hamstring? 772190[/snapback] He has to be on the field and RUN to injure his hamstring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 1. The simple fact i routinely mention but people seem to tend to ignore that he tied for the lead in both INTs and FRs on this turnover starved team last year. 772372[/snapback] A WHOPPING 4 interceptions and 2 fumble recoveries. He may have led the team, but it doesn't mean that those totals aren't putrid. I could be wrong, but let's see what totals his replacements have at years end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Here I'll sum it up for people who still don't get it: 1. He's old and past his prime. 2. He gets burned more than he should. 3. We have younger players willing to fill the position. 4. We aren't dropping off when these "younger players" are in the game. Although: 1. He's the head of the NFLPA 2. He's TKO's friend 3. He's a class act I applaud this move by the Billls. The youth movement is installed. This sends veterans on the team a message, that none of their jobs are safe IF they don't perform. I like it, hey man if I have to look over my shoulder everyday at work due to a younger person in the wings. So should they. After all it IS a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I guess this is the end of Vincent's career as a Bill. So let's look at his accomplishments during his tenure... 1. Broke JP's leg 2. Locker room lawyer 3. NFLPA bigshot That's all I can come up with. Troy we hardly knew ye. Thanks for the coaching offer, but that's what we have COACHES for. 772043[/snapback] GREAT take, I agree 100%. And I thought he was a good signing by TD, a nice upgrade over Lil' Antoine. Good thing we held onto Rashad Baker, cause you could see this coming a million miles away... oh, wait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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