Thoughts on the Shakir PI call

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

Josh Allen is the face of the NFL these days.  If you go to the Jets board they don't quite complain about Allen getting the calls as Mahines but it's starting to get there.

 

Go on Twitter, and all I see after every game is "the NFL is trying to save Josh Allen!" with attached clips of calls like this. 

 

There's also a ton of Chiefs & Ravens fan who constantly whine about Allen flopping, or posting clips from unrelated games & saying "if this happened to Josh Allen, the league would change the rules mid-game!" 

 

So while we may not have the entire NFL fandom directing hate our way like the Chiefs, there's a growing chorus of haters trying to rally the internet against the Bills already.

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, PaoloBillsFanFromItaly said:

It is PI according to the rules, but the rules has to be changed, the DB is forced into making contact by the WR that he's slowing to adjust to the underthrown ball.

It was PI and the rule does not have to be changed. The point of the rule is to permit the intended receiver to make a play to catch the ball and to prohibit the defender from interfering with the receiver attempting to catch the ball. If the receiver stops to make the play and the defender runs into him, it's pass interference, all day, every day, and should be. 

 

Think about it the other way, the defender being ahead of the Shakir instead of behind him. If Shakir were running full speed and the ball were perfectly thrown, if the defender stops and Shakir can't get to the ball, it's interference.  This was the opposite - the defender behind the receiver kept running and Shakir stopped. It's interference both ways. 

 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Out of all the teams that think that isn't pass interference, it's laughable it's the Patriots 

 

Team made a living on that exact call with Brady for how many years?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

I've heard talk in other games of changing the rule for underthrown balls. It's a tough one though. I personally think spot foul for pi is too much and I prefer kind of the college model. 

 

As much contact as they allow nowadays if they try to take away the under thrown ball you might as well just put a saddle on the WR's backs.

 

[Success]

Pats fans are inconsolable about this one - but the correct call was absolutely made.  That was PI, and pretty blatant.  The call of a catch might have been more iffy, but probably correct, and it doesn't matter because there was PI anyway.

 

Officiating in general went our way yesterday, but there were no "wrong" calls. Some were ticky tacky, but that's the NFL sometimes.  And the Pats definitely got the better of the officiating in the 1st game.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Go on Twitter, and all I see after every game is "the NFL is trying to save Josh Allen!" with attached clips of calls like this. 

 

There's also a ton of Chiefs & Ravens fan who constantly whine about Allen flopping, or posting clips from unrelated games & saying "if this happened to Josh Allen, the league would change the rules mid-game!" 

 

So while we may not have the entire NFL fandom directing hate our way like the Chiefs, there's a growing chorus of haters trying to rally the internet against the Bills already.

For as big a viewership draw of a team as the bills are they really don’t get very good whistles overall.  That clown vrabel is complaining they didn’t call much OL holding on us when we have had probably historically  low OL holding called on our opponent for years now 

[Matt_In_NH]

If that was reversed we would have  50 page thread going.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It was PI and the rule does not have to be changed. The point of the rule is to permit the intended receiver to make a play to catch the ball and to prohibit the defender from interfering with the receiver attempting to catch the ball. If the receiver stops to make the play and the defender runs into him, it's pass interference, all day, every day, and should be. 

 

Think about it the other way, the defender being ahead of the Shakir instead of behind him. If Shakir were running full speed and the ball were perfectly thrown, if the defender stops and Shakir can't get to the ball, it's interference.  This was the opposite - the defender behind the receiver kept running and Shakir stopped. It's interference both ways. 

 

 

I agree it’s a stupid rule but pats fans are kinda fighting two battles on this one…complaining about a dpi on a pretty obvious catch is wild to me.  Absolute chump move as a fanbase and the players/coaches are getting involved also 

Edited 2 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BuffaloBill]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

The call was 100% right. Take away that the defender did come up with it and could have been ruled a INT - there was obvious PI before that.

 

Beyond that I didn't see any controversial calls that made me feel strong. I remain unbiased when it comes to them. 

This - Shakir caught the ball and it was not taken away until after he was on the ground. Add to that the defender had his back to the play and he ran into Shakir. In the end what’s lost in all of this is the amazing play that Shakir made.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, finn said:

The announcers' opinion shouldn't impress anyone. The call is bogus in the most important sense, that it just shouldn't be called. It violates the spirit of the rule, which is to stop players from dirty play. No way that Coleman even felt a tug. He was too busy concentrating on dropping the pass. NFL referees need rigorous, ongoing training to avoid poor calls like this, and to learn how to resist the inevitable bias they bring to every game. 

It’s called that way every single time..  your hate for Coleman may be warranted but it is absolutely clouding your judgement..  pulling a jersey when a receiver is making his break and will be open is one of the easiest, most consistent calls in the league.  Just because a guy might drop the ball anyway doesn’t make it not a penalty lol

 

people get confused when they compare it to receivers and dbs handfighting on go routes which is a very different scenario 

Edited 2 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[2003Contenders]

Funny that I keep hearing Patriots fans complaining about those 2 DPI calls as well as the Shakir catch/interception. Such cry babies, and that clip of Vrabel whining in the interview is not a good look for a coach whom I normally respect. My thoughts:

 

1. Whether or not the pass to Shakir was a catch or interception (I believe it was a catch because Shakir had clear possession of the ball when they went to the ground; and at worst it was a "tie" which goes to the receiver), the fact that the DPI flag was thrown makes that call irrelevant since the penalty is a spot foul. And the DPI was obvious as the defender was mugging Shakir (with his back to the ball) before the ball arrived. There is really NOTHING that a Pats fan can complain about on this call.

 

2. Regarding the Coleman DPI call, it is obvious that the defender clutched Coleman's jersey before the ball arrived. Now, that act probably had no baring on the outcome of the play since Coleman once again showed poor hands and dropped a pass that he should have caught whether being "interfered with" or not. That said, the official was right there and saw the handful of jersey being tugged, and that play is called DPI 10 times out of 10. It is not up to the official to decide whether or not the ball should have been caught anyway.

 

3, It is comical that the Pats and fans are whining about a couple of plays, when their defense allowed the Bills to march down the field on 5 TD drives in a row (coupled with their offense doing nothing, save for a single long TD run, which BTW was set up my an egregious hold against D. Jones) . It's like a parent making excuses for the poor behavior of their child instead of properly correcting them. Hopefully the Pats DON'T correct those errors. LOL

 

4. Want to talk about bad calls by the officials? I won't even complain about the "eye in the sky" disparity (the NFL needs to make some consistent rules about the use/non-use of this) that everyone mentions regarding the 2 non-catches in the first quarter, as McD screwed up by not challenging that call, whereas Vrabel was prepared to challenge his call prior to the reversal from the booth. There was the other call from the booth that cost Cook a first down, on what appeared to be a bogus reversal indicating he was short of the first down. How about the clock not starting on that penultimate play of the first half? Hard to believe that a running play like that took less than 6 seconds! Speaking of poor clock operation, remember the first game between these 2 teams when the Pats ran a play with just 4 seconds left on the clock -- yet somehow a single second remained after the play that allowed them to kick a field goal -- of course, we all know that those 3 points wound up being the difference in the game. 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

By the way, he is is clearly not playing the ball in the initial stages of the play while the ball is in the air pushing shakir as Shakira is trying to work his way back to the ball because it's an under throw. . 

 

Eventually he turns his head around and gets in on the play.

 

It's not even borderline it's a clear DPI call

 

It was the classic Tom Brady underthrow into a DPI. I don't understand how that one is even controversial.

 

By the way this is why I hate when Bills fans blame the refs for losing. Every fanbase has the same complaints, we only notice it when it affects our team though. Most fans do not understand what constitutes a penalty. For example Taron is never holding Diggs on that final 4th down, he is just putting his hands on him to orient himself which is absolutely a legal play. Notice how Diggs who has never been shy about begging for penalties does not even try to plead his case.

 

4 hours ago, Lost said:

 

This part I disagree with.   Shakir had the ball in his arms for a second but it almost looks as if it just slipped out into the defender's hands.   Never saw him attempt to rip it out.   

 

This angle makes it clear that both had equal control when they hit the ground which means the WR wins the tie:

 

Edited 2 hours ago by HappyDays

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

Go on Twitter, and all I see after every game is "the NFL is trying to save Josh Allen!" with attached clips of calls like this. 

 

There's also a ton of Chiefs & Ravens fan who constantly whine about Allen flopping, or posting clips from unrelated games & saying "if this happened to Josh Allen, the league would change the rules mid-game!" 

 

So while we may not have the entire NFL fandom directing hate our way like the Chiefs, there's a growing chorus of haters trying to rally the internet against the Bills already.

Such is the cost of success.

[Buffalo Ballin]

Remember that big TD run in the 4th quarter by the Patriots?

 

Wasn't there a hold, from a Patriot player, during that play?

 

Eh..We won on THEIR field hahahahha. They're looking like fool's gold.

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo Ballin

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Let's be honest - we all think it's an obvious PI because we are Bills fans and it worked for us.  Yes he hit him early, yes it is definitely pass interference....but if the play had been completely the opposite, we would now be probably 10 pages deep on how it wasn't PI and it was definitely an interception

 

And the Bills fans who stated that would be equally as wrong as the Pats fans who say it now. But yes all fanbases should be sick of this crap by now. It's ruining the analysis of the game. All anyone wants to talk about is adding more flags to an already flag happy game. Even Vrabel himself stoked the fires with his ridiculous podcast appearance today. It's consuming every discussion of the sport and I'm just so tired of it.

[Shaw66]

45 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s called that way every single time..  your hate for Coleman may be warranted but it is absolutely clouding your judgement..  pulling a jersey when a receiver is making his break and will be open is one of the easiest, most consistent calls in the league.  Just because a guy might drop the ball anyway doesn’t make it not a penalty lol

 

people get confused when they compare it to receivers and dbs handfighting on go routes which is a very different scenario 

I agree. And the real tell-tale sign on that call is if the receiver's body gets twisted back with the hold, and Coleman's did.  Not a lot, but his body turned. The reason that's important is that when the body turns, the arms and hands move, and that's what makes it very difficult to complete the catch. 

 

I've seen plays like Coleman's where it wasn't called.  Coleman's was one that could have been called either way, and I don't think it's right to say either call is wrong.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

I think it’s a penalty that is often uncalled (and also often called).  We got the love this time. We often don’t.  That life as an nfl fan.  You win some and you lose some. 
 

the catch was similar to bishop/worthy in the playoffs last year except worthy had 2 hands on the ball for longer.  
 

I'm not sure how the rule is worded, but if the WR and CB have both hands on the ball the moment they are “down”, it should be a catch due to the ball automatically going to the offense.  
 

If the argument is, that Shakir had 2hands on the ball, then hit the ground and doesn’t maintain possession through  the ground contact that I get the frustration.  He didn’t have his hands on the ball for.long.  

A patriot fan would

 

You just made the same argument...

[Kmart128]

Im not sure it was a catch. I think it was an INT. And if it was a catch... ball was ripped out before being touched down so would have been a FF and FR by Pats.

 

However definitely PI... Jones ran right through Shakir without even attempting to find the ball in the air. He was playing the reciever and not the ball.

[JoshAllin]

Once he's down and touched thats a catch and both had hands on the ball going down

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

Im not sure it was a catch. I think it was an INT. And if it was a catch... ball was ripped out before being touched down so would have been a FF and FR by Pats.

 

However definitely PI... Jones ran right through Shakir without even attempting to find the ball in the air. He was playing the reciever and not the ball.

I was sure it was a catch but looking super close now it really seems like a loophole type thing there really isn’t a rule for.  Looked like a late shove by jones got him in position to even do this so pretty obvious dpi, but I think Shakir catches it first then they fight for possession for awhile and there’s probably a brief moment where jones has more control of it and shakir barely has a hand on it but Shakir gets his hands back in there before he goes to the ground 

 

Edited 59 minutes ago by Generic_Bills_Fan