Let’s talk D

[SCBills]

35 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Minus the fact that he's on IR I'd love to see Hoecht out there in that role.  Didn't look it up but post suspension I think he made it two games before tearing something.

We signed the guy who played the Hoecht role in LA before Hoecht. 

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The guy who I think might be worth a go is more Rousseau standing up in the A gap in pure pass sets with Bosa and Epenesa outside. 

 

This would absolutely be the best option, but it's also November and you can't beat him to a pulp 2 months before the playoffs even start.

 

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

There is a case for Shaq, Dorian and Cam to become the starting second level.

 

There almost is, but I think the case for Shaq, Bernard and Cam negates it.

I've always been a Taron fanboy but Lewis is a more dynamic defender now so I'm sort of OK with that switch.

But even right now, 85% of Bernard is a better option than Williams. And if he continues to get better (which he has been) the case becomes even stronger.

 

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

PED man 2 (Ogunjobi) is freaking hopeless. Leverage. Pad level. Anchor. One out of 3 would be nice. He is playing with zero.

 

 

He's about the third/fourth level of the trickle down problem caused by Oliver's injury.

It murders us at every level of our rotation.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They tried everyone but Milano in that role today - Solomon, Bernard, Williams.... I don't think they have an answer. Hoecht's skill set is pretty unique. Milano is running in sand, he is one of the first guys they need to get off the field IMO. The guy who I think might be worth a go is more Rousseau standing up in the A gap in pure pass sets with Bosa and Epenesa outside. 

 

There are just too many problems to fix. Hancock and Poyer are already in a job share and while I understand the desire to see Hancock out there more he has to play better than he has so far to earn that. There is a case for Shaq, Dorian and Cam to become the starting second level. All the 'starters' are struggling but as @Simon rightly says the interior Dline has to do better at keeping them clean and there is no help coming at that spot. They have what they have at this point. That said the Bills are near the top of the league in rushes stopped for no gain or loss. The bigger problem is once a runner evades the Dline the next Bill to touch the ball could well be the kicker kicking off. 

 

Oh and if PED man 1 (Hoecht) was a great addition - for all of two games - PED man 2 (Ogunjobi) is freaking hopeless. Leverage. Pad level. Anchor. One out of 3 would be nice. He is playing with zero.

 

I think the guy Fox they signed this week has a little 55 in him. But at the end of the day I just want the defense fixed. Replacing a strange 1 off skill set can’t make or break you. Get the guys off the field that have been killing us. Get out of the constant nickel and come off the zone. The rest of the league knows exactly what we are going to do. Change that

[Royale with Cheese]

Our defense wouldn’t look as bad if we could get off the field on 3rd down.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

Our defense wouldn’t look as bad if we could get off the field on 3rd down.

 

That was a bit of an issue today, but that's the first time since Sean took over playcalling. They have been a LOT better on 3rd down against the Panthers, Chiefs and Dolphins. It's been down like 20 percentage points.

3 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I think the guy Fox they signed this week has a little 55 in him. But at the end of the day I just want the defense fixed. Replacing a strange 1 off skill set can’t make or break you. Get the guys off the field that have been killing us. Get out of the constant nickel and come off the zone. The rest of the league knows exactly what we are going to do. Change that

 

Maybe on Fox, but he has a 31 year old who has been a starter one season in his entire career. He isn't in the same ballpark talent wise. I agree losing Hoecht shouldn't hurt this much but we are where we are talent wise. I know you will disagree but I don't think the nickel is the problem and they have mixed man and zone pretty well this year. I just think they look old and washed up in too many spots.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That was a bit of an issue today, but that's the first time since Sean took over playcalling. They have been a LOT better on 3rd down against the Panthers, Chiefs and Dolphins. It's been down like 20 percentage points.

 
Is Milano just rusty or maybe just doesn’t have confidence because of his injuries?

He looks very slow.  Very noticeable.

 

He started coming on last year after a few games.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That was a bit of an issue today, but that's the first time since Sean took over playcalling. They have been a LOT better on 3rd down against the Panthers, Chiefs and Dolphins. It's been down like 20 percentage points.

You seem to still have a high opinion of McDermott. I like him, but I am not sold on his scheme. Is it fundamentally a scheme problem (outdated and figured out) or personnel? I'd like to see larger DTs and bigger LBs, but that won't happen in this scheme. Evidently the decision has been made to sacrifice stopping the run to supposedly stop the pass, but you can't have teams consistently gashing you for very long runs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 
Is Milano just rusty or maybe just doesn’t have confidence because of his injuries?

He looks very slow.  Very noticeable.

 

He started coming on last year after a few games.

 

I think he looks washed personally. I'd love to be wrong. He has been a great Bill. But I think it is over. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

You seem to still have a high opinion of McDermott. I like him, but I am not sold on his scheme. Is it fundamentally a scheme problem (outdated and figured out) or personnel? I'd like to see larger DTs and bigger LBs, but that won't happen in this scheme. Evidently the decision has been made to sacrifice stopping the run to supposedly stop the pass, but you can't have teams consistently gashing you for very long runs.

 

I am critical of a lot of what McDermott has got wrong this year. But he has been calling it much better on defense than Babich. That was not hard. Babich was way out of his depth. Personally I don't think it is a scheme issue and, while there is always a call or two, since the change I don't really think it is a playcalling issue. They have no difference makers up front and the second level looks old and slow. And while the scheme does prioritise pass defense over run defense there is no doubt the run D has to look better than this. They did go to some bear front 2nd half and it worked a bit better.... but man they need to find an answer. I'm just not sure what it is with their personnel.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The biggest issue on this defense is the guy coaching it. We can’t get away from that. But in the meantime we can certainly get the better guys on the field and hope the Jimmys and Joes overwrite the Xs and Os. The A number 1 move is Thompson. Hes been by far our best LB. He makes a gigantic difference. How Tre White is still even an option outside is insanity. The time has come and gone for it to be 47 and 31. That’s the CB tandem for a half decade. Stop messing around. Tarron Johnson is beyond washed. He’s got to come off the field. I’d like to see Hancock out there with Bishop but if Poyer is helping Bishop become this…I can live with it. Hold the defense to the same standards that you do the offense. The sickening part is the offense is under constant scrutiny. Unlike the defense, they have actually been great. And more than earned the benefit of the doubt. 7 and 8 deserve the Colman treatment. It can’t be a 1 way street here. Let’s grow up 

Edited 4 hours ago by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 
Is Milano just rusty or maybe just doesn’t have confidence because of his injuries?

He looks very slow.  Very noticeable.

 

He started coming on last year after a few games.

 

It looks to me like they've had him spending more time chasing TEs and he's not getting as many chances to attack the LOS.

If they're protecting him they need to stop, because he's already protecting himself.

[QCity]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Our defense wouldn’t look as bad if we could get off the field on 3rd down.

 

The key to getting off the field on 3rd down has always been pass rush, but that's been hit or miss for the Bills and certainly not something you can fix personnel-wise in November. I also think the run defense issues are systemic, and taking a flyer on a FA 1-tech probably won't move the needle at all.

[mjt328]

Front seven is too small.

LBs and CBs are too slow.

Pass rush is too inconsistent.

 

Deone Walker, Maxwell Hairston and Cole Bishop are hopefully good steps in the right direction.  Still need another 1-2 good drafts to replace the aging vets we’ve lost over the years.

 

Paying Terrell Bernard was a mistake, whether he’s injured or not.

[Kelly to Allen]

A lot of young guys are playing. And we're still trying to get healthy. Bosa is probably a few weeks away with that wrist from being himself. Bernard is getting healthier but clearly he 8not 100, same with a few others....

 

We'll see what happens. It's a concern obviously 

 

Gotta give credit to Tampa too... Baker is legit, Tampa is legit. We were lucky some of their guys were banged up

 

It was a classic shootout

26 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The biggest issue on this defense is the guy coaching it. We can’t get away from that. But in the meantime we can certainly get the better guys on the field and hope the Jimmys and Joes overwrite the Xs and Os. The A number 1 move is Thompson. Hes been by far our best LB. He makes a gigantic difference. How Tre White is still even an option outside is insanity. The time has come and gone for it to be 47 and 31. That’s the CB tandem for a half decade. Stop messing around. Tarron Johnson is beyond washed. He’s got to come off the field. I’d like to see Hancock out there with Bishop but if Poyer is helping Bishop become this…I can live with it. Hold the defense to the same standards that you do the offense. The sickening part is the offense is under constant scrutiny. Unlike the defense, they have actually been great. And more than earned the benefit of the doubt. 7 and 8 deserve the Colman treatment. It can’t be a 1 way street here. Let’s grow up 

 

All well said. Let's hope some of the older vets have one last run in them this postseason. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[NickelCity]

29 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How Tre White is still even an option outside is insanity. The time has come and gone for it to be 47 and 31. That’s the CB tandem for a half decade. Stop messing around. Tarron Johnson is beyond washed. He’s got to come off the field. I’d like to see Hancock out there with Bishop but if Poyer is helping Bishop become this…I can live with it. 

 

This part right here 

[BuffaloRebound]

Even in his prime, Milano wasnt a great tackler.  He was a heat seeking missile with elite play diagnosis, but never swallowed up Running Backs.   Now he’s older and has a pec injury.  Between him and Bernard, it’s like watching 2 dudes with T Rex arms and zero ability to get offs blocks.    Complete jailbreak ever time the Running Back gets past the line of scrimmage.  

[Norcalbillsfan]

48 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he looks washed personally. I'd love to be wrong. He has been a great Bill. But I think it is over. 

2 weeks in a row I've seen him blocked from the hash into the sidelines by a TE. Rough to watch. But if we are talking about play falling off a cliff, holy Bernard. He looks absolutely lost on the feild, like he doesn't know what hes supposed to be doing in certain coverages. I dont get it.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

3 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

After this game, the Bills may be dead last in run D. 🤮🤮🤮🤮 Outside of Hoecht and Oliver, the rest of the D is for the most part healthy. 
 

After ten games in, what needs to change? Is the run game D issues the DL or LB? The secondary looks somewhat better but that soft zone on 3rd and long has to change. It’s embarrassing watching the Bills D consistently giving up easy 3rd and long conversions.

 

Pass rush is lackluster and there is no one that is even remotely consistent enough. Far too often the pass rush is neutralized. We are not a very good blitzing team either. 
 

Would love to hear other’s thoughts on how this D improves down the stretch?  There is no calvary coming so unless we plan on winning every game in a shootout something has to change!

 

Just score more than the other team, which is why i wanted Beane to go all in on WR this past offseason. McDermotts scheme just doesn't seem as effective or other teams have figured it out and we don't seem to be adapting to that. So outscoring the opposition is the only way to counter that. We haven't had a pass rush since McDermott took over as HC. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

After this game, the Bills may be dead last in run D. 🤮🤮🤮🤮 Outside of Hoecht and Oliver, the rest of the D is for the most part healthy. 

 

Are they though?

Poyer, who was cooked 2 seasons ago, is starting at Safety 'cuz there's no one else, Rapp being in the body-and-fender shop for the season and Hamlin for some period of time.

Benford, Johnson, and Bernard are not on the injury report and limited in practice because they're "for the most part healthy".  

Our best DLman when he played, Ed Oliver, is on IR along with our hoped-for young guy DeWayne Carter and a guy who showed promise of fixing our pass rush when in there, Hoecht

 

It isn't pretty.

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Beck Water

[L Ron Burgundy]

A monster 1t DT.  A better LB or two.  A Safety to replace Poyer. For DT I'd like someone like Vita Vea.  LB someone that best resembles a Viking berserker.  Bigger than what we've been drafting.   Oh, a pass rush specialist.