Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

With Keon, the targets they are giving him are too much out of the misuse of him, like the over reliance on running Keon downfield for 50/50 balls.  And IMHO, Keon, Shakir, and Kincaid should see more consistent targets.  

 

 

I've repeatedly said Keon is playing out of position but they seem intent on forcing him into a boundary receiver.  Square peg, round hole.

 

What's that saying about the definition of insanity?

 

 

[Lost]

1 minute ago, Low Positive said:

Joe Marino broke down that same play and came to the same conclusion that I did. I think he's so worried about DBs jumping routes and getting picks that he's "seeing ghosts." I think the solution is that they need to just let him play. But there is also a lot of footage from this game that demonstrates WRs not getting open either due to a lack of speed or poor scheme. It does cut both ways, and everyone was bad on Sunday. 

 

All on McDermott for conditioning Josh so hard to not create turnovers.  I hate it.   If we're throwing the season away anyway, just unleash him and let him play like his old self.   Brett Favre always played like Brett Favre and he got a SB ring.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Throwing the ball away instead of taking the easy 5 + yards to Shakir, which he could have had twice. Once from the pocket, and once when scrambling. 

ok so when shakir lines up as X i don't know how often he's a read. im going to guess not very

 

on the scramble sure, i guess if they worked on scramble drills enough allen would know that shakir turning and running upfield is going to break off and come back but not throwing the ball to a guy who's back is turned seems like a pretty marginal thing to quibble over

 

 

[Jauronimo]

There were multiple times last week where it looked to me like he was just jogging around.  Particularly when the route breaks down and it turns into a scramble drill.  

[Low Positive]

Just now, Lost said:

 

All on McDermott for conditioning Josh so hard to not create turnovers.  I hate it.   If we're throwing the season away anyway, just unleash him and let him play like his old self.   Brett Favre always played like Brett Favre and he got a SB ring.  

Yes. In my mind, a punt is a turnover, too. But other people have a good point too. i could post the next play after that one, when a free runner comes at Josh on a stunt and he has to heave it to a covered Keon Coleman down the sideline. Nobody came open and the play was busted from the start. There was another play, just before Cooks' fumble, when Josh threw an incredible ball to a covered Kincaid. He had to do that because NOBODY WAS OPEN!

[iccrewman112]

4 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

All on McDermott for conditioning Josh so hard to not create turnovers.  I hate it.   If we're throwing the season away anyway, just unleash him and let him play like his old self.   Brett Favre always played like Brett Favre and he got a SB ring.  

just avoid the Medicare fraud

[Mango]

19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Multiple wide receivers open quick 

 

I sit directly opposite this in my tickets and we notice this often.

 

On one hand were a 5 win team without Allen.

 

On the other hand he seems super out of sync with the offense this year. He's not theeeee problem but he he's not playing on time either. This feels like 2018 Allen without the aggressiveness.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I sit directly opposite this in my tickets and we notice this often.

 

On one hand were a 5 win team without Allen.

 

On the other hand he seems super out of sync with the offense this year. He's not theeeee problem but he he's not playing on time either. This feels like 2018 Allen without the aggressiveness.

Lot of time for it to get cleaned up 

 

There's one player in the world I have faith he will it's Josh Allen

[hondo in seattle]

18 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree - Those who know what to watch for, its obvious Josh is missing reads and Im not wasting time proving his "base" is off to GoBills808...it will come out in the offseason about his mechanics.  Hes been talking to his guy and working thru it in season too.

 

Its mostly mental IMO - need to trust the OL to hold up, trust the reads, and when that's off his mechanics are off with an extra pat of the ball or getting his eyes out of place/leaving the pocket early.

 

Josh is still amazing, people here have issues with any criticism of him.  Hes had multiple games below his standard, just so happens weve lost 3 of those.

 

Josh is missing reads this season.  But he's missed reads all his career.  That's what holds him back from being the GOAT - he's not as good as making reads and getting the ball out on schedule as, for example, T. Brady was.  But Josh is still freaking good - this year and every year.

[Ray Stonada]

Coleman should sit. Not even turning for the ball on deep attempts is wild.

 

Throw the ball deep to Palmer, Moore and Samuel at WR, Kincaid and Hawes at TE, and Cook and Ty out of the backfield. See if we can develop a passing attack before the playoffs. We've got 8 games to get it going. 

[BillsVet]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Tell me you are not open to unbiased dialogue on the subject without flat out saying you are not open to unbiased dialogue on the subject.

 

Biased dialogue is saying that fans on this message board know better than Brady how to scheme Coleman, a player he's worked with closely for 18 months.  

 

Biased dialogue is saying Josh Allen (he of the current NFL MVP status) must target Coleman more.

 

You do you dude.    

Edited 2 hours ago by BillsVet

[Bruffalo]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

This all sounds quite logical.  But who knows what's going on in his personal life.  Maybe his dad is dying of cancer or his gf is sleeping around.  Maybe he's got mental health issues like Marshawn Kneeland.  We just don't know.  

 

But regardless of the reasons behind his lack of effort, if he's not putting out, he shouldn't be on the field.  

You're right. They're people first and foremost, and we should try to remember that. 

 

If any of those things were you listed were the case, I'd hope the coaches would have the grace to not call him out on effort in front of the national media then.  That being said, it's possible they don't know too. 

[Sierra Foothills]

14 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I hope you feel really smart 🤣

 

There's a saying I embrace which is that "If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room." So, no, I don't feel particularly smart but there's lots of people who are obviously stupid. 🤣

 

6 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Allen isn't a scout, there shouldn't be any influence.

 

6 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

Precisely my point. 

 

This is possibly true but another poster trying to correct me on a different topic suggests that politics plays a big role in pro sports which is actually true... just not in every conspiracy theory case.

 

With regards to a franchise QB having some influence over personnel matters, it definitely exists and sometimes the outcomes are good and sometimes they're bad.

 

Tom Brady is a part owner of the Raiders and has never been a scout... but on one doubts that he'll have heavy input into the remodeling of the Raiders franchise.

 

To the point, we can only guess at Josh's personnel input and how good he is at it.

 

4 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't have to pretend that Allen is playing well because the evidence overwhelmingly confirms that he's playing well.

 

Passing:  70.3% completion rate; 2139 yards; 15 TD's & 5 INT's and a QB rating of 105.7

 

Rushing:  311 yards; 7 TD's & 2 lost fumbles

 

Total Offensive Output:  2450 yards; 22 TD's & 7 TO's.  He's on pace here for a season with 4626 total yards; 41 TD's & 13 TO's.

 

What Allen isn't doing is playing at an MVP level.  He's not at an A+ for the season he's instead fluctuating between a B+/A-.

 

The numbers aren't bad. The testimony of many credible evaluators is that he's not playing to his own standards and that's my belief too. He played well against KC and then reverted to bad habits against Miami. He's been very inconsistent this year.

 

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

As an aside, I still believe that Coleman could breakout at any time and be a very good NFL WR.  I have  seen enough to know that the potential is there.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this happens.  And if Coleman does break through and become a dominating WR will those posters that say Allen pushed Bean to draft him come on 2BD and praise Allen's brilliant scouting skills?

 

As I pointed out to you before, people don't know exactly what happened between Allen and Beane regarding Coleman except for the quotes, posts, etc. indicating that Josh was factually in favor of drafting Coleman. Without actual evidence to the contrary, the reasonable position is that Josh had some sort of input, perhaps a tie-breaking vote. 

 

In your previous 6 paragraph screed on the subject your opinion was that Josh is a company man and was just being supportive of the pick, though posters both before and after you provided evidence of Josh's genuine support of the pick.

 

Of course those that believe that Josh had meaningful input into the Coleman  pick will have the right to take a victory lap if it all works out.

 

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

 

Hard to say. I find it hard to believe it's something he personally changed after week 1, so that means it has to be something else. I do believe there has to be some truth to this.

"If EVERY Wide receiver is the problem, then it's probably the offensive coordinator"

 

Hmmm... "If EVERY Wide receiver is the problem, then it's probably the offensive coordinator."

 

All of our receivers suck and our QB is regressing and inconsistent.

 

Why wouldn't that be a coaching issue?

 

47 minutes ago, FieldGeneral said:

The locker room video after the KC win was very telling. As if the on the field tape didn't already tell us everything. 

 

I think people are putting way too much into that and now that we're in the pitchfork phase, doubly so.

 

Just keep in mind James Cook's demeanor and the criticism he received regularly for the belief that he didn't care about this team.

 

The rabble rousing here is textbook mob mentality.

 

Everyone's pissed off and wants their pound of flesh.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sierra Foothills

[Simon]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

I think you let Josh play some no huddle and get him going earlier in games.

 

I don't know if you quite have to go there, but I was definitely b'ing and moaning early in the Dolphins game about them not making even the slightest bit of effort whatsoever to run the offense at any kind of pace.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I think people are putting way too much into that and now that we're in the pitchfork phase, doubly so.

 

The rabble rousing here is textbook mob mentality.

 

😂😂says the guy who believes Allen is responsible for drafting Coleman

[JP51]

He is a disaster and I blame Beane 

[Sierra Foothills]

36 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

There were multiple times last week where it looked to me like he was just jogging around.  Particularly when the route breaks down and it turns into a scramble drill.  

 

I watch the All-22 from time to time and this is what I notice regularly:

 

1) There's lots of wide receivers who are not running full out on every passing play.

2) There's lots of pass rushers who throttle down when they calculate that they have no hope of catching up with the play.

 

Most of the time this sort of common behavior only becomes a talking point when fans decide they want to criticize a player.

 

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂says the guy who believes Allen is responsible for drafting Coleman

 

You have a serious problem with reading comprehension.

 

I said exactly:

 

"As I pointed out to you before, people don't know exactly what happened between Allen and Beane regarding Coleman except for the quotes, posts, etc. indicating that Josh was factually in favor of drafting Coleman. Without actual evidence to the contrary, the reasonable position is that Josh had some sort of input, perhaps a tie-breaking vote."

 

And please answer this question: What does anything I posted have to do with rabble rousing?

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't know if you quite have to go there, but I was definitely b'ing and moaning early in the Dolphins game about them not making even the slightest bit of effort whatsoever to run the offense at any kind of pace.

 

When they were still down 16 late in the 3rd when they should've been going tempo, I remember a few plays where they were still using up almost all the play clock.  They were out of sorts the entire game.  I know technically 16 is really only 2 scores, but there just didn't seem to be any urgency even when it seemed there should be.  I even said to the wife at the time that it almost feels like the Bills think they're the ones up 16-0.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

I know those numbers, but take a look at this play. It's 2-10. He has open guys at multiple time during the play, and he throws the ball away. He even starts to throw to Keon early in the play, but decides to bail on the pocket instead. Then he doesn't pull the trigger to Shakir, who would have had at least 6 yards there. We were already losing 13-0 at this point and we needed to make a play. I don't know what is going on, but this is a frustrating watch.

 

Shakir is open for a five yard gain on that play but the play design is to the other side. The TE is covered and Cook is gonna get blown up after a 4-5 yard gain. No one else is open. They just look open because the ball not being thrown in a particular direction means that NFL defenders are not going to break on the ball (hence the spacing between DBs and receivers, which in reality isn't much spacing at all). Also, @Alphadawg7, maybe you're looking at it differently, but Coleman at no point looks open to me until the very end of the play when it's dead anyway. He's bracketed by two DBs the entire team and there's a clean switch by the Miami secondary when he gets to the next, deeper level.

Edited 1 hour ago by dave mcbride

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

I know those numbers, but take a look at this play. It's 2-10. He has open guys at multiple time during the play, and he throws the ball away. He even starts to throw to Keon early in the play, but decides to bail on the pocket instead. Then he doesn't pull the trigger to Shakir, who would have had at least 6 yards there. We were already losing 13-0 at this point and we needed to make a play. I don't know what is going on, but this is a frustrating watch.

 

That play was infuriating! Every single WR is open and Josh didn’t throw to any of them! And then, after he inexplicably held onto the ball and scrambles to his stronger right side he has an intermediate WR wide open (Samuel?) just ten yards downfield and still doesn’t throw it to him. Ugh!