Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

 

They kinda already indirectly have without using those exact words. First asking questions about his production, now questioning the effort is basically asking that question and McD apparently continues to believe he's deserving of all the targets he gets. I and obviously many others at this point would disagree.

 

My issue they are sometimes maddeningly slow to change when things aren't working and it seems obvious to people watching from the outside. It's like they believe they just need some extra time...and sometimes they are right, but often they are not and at some point the player needs to show some improvement.

[mannc]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

The dude that posted an all "0" stat line in one of the most WR friendly offenses in the NFL this past week?

Moore is clearly being phased out in Chicago, but he’s almost 30 now.  Let’s not pretend he wasn’t a damn good NFL  WR for a lot of years, and MILES better than anyone we had back then.  Who knows, if we had drafted Moore in 2018, maybe we’re not desperate enough to trade for Stefon Diggs 2 years later, and we use our 2020 first round pick on a different WR (insert name) who might still be on the roster.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

My issue they are sometimes maddeningly slow to change when things aren't working 

 

Yes

[Alphadawg7]

19 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Diggs did that a lot. You could tell if he knew he wasn't getting the ball because he wouldn't run his route. 

 

I will go one further, all WR's tend to do this, even the elites.

 

The bigger issue here is that we are NOT making any effort what so ever to get Keon the ball.  Early in the first quarter on 2nd and 10, Allen drops back into a clean pocket and Keon is wide open right in front of him over the middle on an in crosser for at least 6 yards upon the catch and possibly more if any YAC after the catch.  Allen pump fakes the ball, then pats it, dances around, and the scrambles out right and heaves the ball out of bands to leave 3rd and 10 instead of 3rd and short or even just getting the first had Keon got some YAC.  

 

I was screaming at the TV to throw the ball to Keon.  This happens a lot, not just with Keon but other guys.  On plays people see Allen scramble they always say "no one was open" on here, but if you look at the film, its not always the case, and often Allen missed opportunities.  And I think a lot of that has to do with Brady's offense where guys are not intended to get the ball and they are there to clear out to go to a specific target or check down.  

 

Keon has limitations, but we are also not at all trying to use his strengths or get him involved.  Last year before injury, his previous 5 games put him on a 1000+ yard season pace.  But this year, they continuously still use him poorly, playing to his weaknesses more than his strengths.  And now you have a young WR who is hungry and worked hard this offseason not getting chances, it is often going to affect their effort when they "know" the ball isn't coming his way.  Not validating that, but just saying it is not a surprise either.

 

Brady and Allen need to sit down and make a point to get Keon (and Palmer when he is back) more targets, get them going.  Move them around, call plays for Keon other than called 50/50 balls.  

[Billz4ever]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

My issue they are sometimes maddeningly slow to change when things aren't working and it seems obvious to people watching from the outside. It's like they believe they just need some extra time...and sometimes they are right, but often they are not and at some point the player needs to show some improvement.

 

To me, Keon looks like the same player from last season, despite constantly hearing from the team how he stepped up his preparation and it showed out in camp. If that's true, why has that not translated into games?  Maybe if they committed to using him in the slot, where I think he belongs, we'd actually see more, but I simply don't think we're ever going to see it as long as they continue to try to make him into something he's not.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But he is terrible at jump balls right now, which was a strength of his in college. That's the biggest issue. Essentially what he did at the college level very well has not translated almost AT ALL to the NFL level.  YAC actually has probably been his best asset and we have seen that in multiple situations.

 

It really wasn't. I know that was the narrative. It wasn't what the tape showed.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

To me, Keon looks like the same player from last season, despite constantly hearing from the team how he stepped up his preparation and it showed out in camp. If that's true, why has that not translated into games?  Maybe if they committed to using him in the slot, where I think he belongs, we'd actually see more, but I simply don't think we're ever going to see it as long as they continue to try to make him into something he's not.

 

He looked great against the Ravens in week 1. Where has that player gone?

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will go one further, all WR's tend to do this, even the elites.

 

The bigger issue here is that we are NOT making any effort what so ever to get Keon the ball.  Early in the first quarter on 2nd and 10, Allen drops back into a clean pocket and Keon is wide open right in front of him over the middle on an in crosser for at least 6 yards upon the catch and possibly more if any YAC after the catch.  Allen pump fakes the ball, then pats it, dances around, and the scrambles out right and heaves the ball out of bands to leave 3rd and 10 instead of 3rd and short or even just getting the first had Keon got some YAC.  

 

I was screaming at the TV to throw the ball to Keon.  This happens a lot, not just with Keon but other guys.  On plays people see Allen scramble they always say "no one was open" on here, but if you look at the film, its not always the case, and often Allen missed opportunities.  And I think a lot of that has to do with Brady's offense where guys are not intended to get the ball and they are there to clear out to go to a specific target or check down.  

 

Keon has limitations, but we are also not at all trying to use his strengths or get him involved.  Last year before injury, his previous 5 games put him on a 1000+ yard season pace.  But this year, they continuously still use him poorly, playing to his weaknesses more than his strengths.  And now you have a young WR who is hungry and worked hard this offseason not getting chances, it is often going to affect their effort when they "know" the ball isn't coming his way.  Not validating that, but just saying it is not a surprise either.

 

Brady and Allen need to sit down and make a point to get Keon (and Palmer when he is back) more targets, get them going.  Move them around, call plays for Keon other than called 50/50 balls.  

 

I don't think you can really say they don't try to get him the ball. Keon has the second most targets of all pass catchers (49), second to only Shakir (58) and if you subtract all the bubble screens thrown to Shakir, I think with out a doubt it shows Coleman gets the most downfield targets on the team.  No other WR has over 20 and Kincaid has 36 for reference.

 

Allen has missed a number of reads and bailed on clean pockets for sure and I don't know if it's confidence in these guys combined with playcalling/scheme or what but something is very off from last year IMO.

[Mr. WEO]

McD making a seat for Coleman under the bus.  
 

Brady can’t motivate a 33rd pick?  What is Ol Joe really good at right now?

[BillsVet]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Brady and Allen need to sit down and make a point to get Keon (and Palmer when he is back) more targets, get them going.  Move them around, call plays for Keon other than called 50/50 balls.  

 

I've been here long enough to recall whenever coaches were criticized that the fall-back defense was that fans don't know more than them.

 

Now, the supposed under-utilization of Coleman is on the OC and QB's for not targeting him enough?  

 

Because it's a coaching (the OC primarily) issue and the reigning MVP's fault?  Not Coleman, his physical limitations, or being put in a difficult spot expected to produce without the requisite skill set and facing zero competition? 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

McD making a seat for Coleman under the bus.  
 

Brady can’t motivate a 33rd pick?  What is Ol Joe really good at right now?

😂😂right? like can't he just point at Gabe Davis and say look- even a bad wideout can earn a second contract if you're catching passes from Allen

[Brandon]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He looked great against the Ravens in week 1. Where has that player gone?

 

He was matched up against Jaire Alexander,  who played in only one more game for Baltimore this year and got traded for a swap of late round picks a week or two ago.  

Edited 2 hours ago by Brandon

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He looked great against the Ravens in week 1. Where has that player gone?

 

Hard to say. I find it hard to believe it's something he personally changed after week 1, so that means it has to be something else. I do believe there has to be some truth to this.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Trying? They’re supposed to be trying? Who knew?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

McD making a seat for Coleman under the bus.  
 

Brady can’t motivate a 33rd pick?  What is Ol Joe really good at right now?

Dreaming of palm trees and low state taxes in Louisiana?  Don't let Terry P. know! 🤫

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Shake it up. Start Shakir Samuel and Palmer. Rotate Keon in in the slot. Apparently everyone says that’s his strength. Well he sucks on the outside and Kinkaid is out. Why not try him in there? I’m sure Shakir can move outside we are on purpose putting our own WRs in a box. It’s time for a shakeup

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂right? like can't he just point at Gabe Davis and say look- even a bad wideout can earn a second contract if you're catching passes from Allen

 

LOL--"bad wideout"?--Every year in the league, Davis has been better than Coleman.  In 4 years with the Bills: 2700+ yards, 27 TDs, 125 1sts downs---on 299 targets. 

 

Coleman in his second season already dogging it.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Dreaming of palm trees and low state taxes in Louisiana?  Don't let Terry P. know! 🤫

 

From your mouth to the Governor's ears!!

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL--"bad wideout"?--Every year in the league, Davis has been better than Coleman.  In 4 years with the Bills: 2700+ yards, 27 TDs, 125 1sts downs---on 299 targets. 

 

Coleman in his second season already dogging it.  

 

 

 

From your mouth to the Governor's ears!!

nah Davis and Coleman are basically the same talent wise, Davis just had the better attitude while he was here outside his penchat for getting into arguments w fans

[MasterStrategist]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will go one further, all WR's tend to do this, even the elites.

 

The bigger issue here is that we are NOT making any effort what so ever to get Keon the ball.  Early in the first quarter on 2nd and 10, Allen drops back into a clean pocket and Keon is wide open right in front of him over the middle on an in crosser for at least 6 yards upon the catch and possibly more if any YAC after the catch.  Allen pump fakes the ball, then pats it, dances around, and the scrambles out right and heaves the ball out of bands to leave 3rd and 10 instead of 3rd and short or even just getting the first had Keon got some YAC.  

 

I was screaming at the TV to throw the ball to Keon.  This happens a lot, not just with Keon but other guys.  On plays people see Allen scramble they always say "no one was open" on here, but if you look at the film, its not always the case, and often Allen missed opportunities.  And I think a lot of that has to do with Brady's offense where guys are not intended to get the ball and they are there to clear out to go to a specific target or check down.  

 

Keon has limitations, but we are also not at all trying to use his strengths or get him involved.  Last year before injury, his previous 5 games put him on a 1000+ yard season pace.  But this year, they continuously still use him poorly, playing to his weaknesses more than his strengths.  And now you have a young WR who is hungry and worked hard this offseason not getting chances, it is often going to affect their effort when they "know" the ball isn't coming his way.  Not validating that, but just saying it is not a surprise either.

 

Brady and Allen need to sit down and make a point to get Keon (and Palmer when he is back) more targets, get them going.  Move them around, call plays for Keon other than called 50/50 balls.  

Josh is missing alot of reads this year, and our "route spacing" seems off.  

 

Watching the all-22, Josh missed 5-6 reads in the 1st half alone.  

 

Route spacing, too many times we have w guys coming into an area where a single defender can cover both.  Its either design, or players making poor decisions with option routes/adjusting their routes.  

 

Joshs footwork is crazy as F this year.  If anyone actually sits to watch this all 22, you'll see his "base" is off.  I truly think hes feeling more pressure because the OL isnt as consistent and some of it is mental.

 

All of this contributing.

 

And for Keon, hes open alot more than being led on (as you noted).  Either not the primary read, or Josh not seeing it. 

 

But in a nutshell, our offense has lost its groove far too often vs LY.

 

I think you let Josh play some no huddle and get him going earlier in games.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

19 hours ago, QCity said:

 

He's running like he's playing flag football at a family picnic.

I resent this.  I busted my but and you just overthrew it!!!

Why are you still bringing this up brother??!!

That was back in 1996.  
still can’t forget that we lost can you?