A Few Thoughts about the Chiefs Game - Community Edition

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, JustHewIt said:

I'm (sort of) surprised by all the complaining about McDermott.  For whatever you want to say about the timeouts, to me that's totally outweighed by the 180 the defense has done since the bye.  If you're going to crap all over him for the defense when it's bad, you better praise him when it looks like this.

Also, I feel like criticism of the offense "almost giving the game away" in the second half is a bit ridiculous.  The narrative that everyone has beaten into oblivion is that we have no receivers whatsoever.  But then when we lean on our running game, run the clock. limit KC's possessions, all the sudden that's a horrible decision?  Would you rather throw it to our so-called crappy receivers, be inefficient and give the Chiefs an extra 2-3 possessions?  It's just constant goal-post moving by the negative nancies no matter what the team does.

Awesome, awesome win.  If you aren't flying high today then why even watch the team?

 

We have the usual crowd who will politely and quietly go along with a win this week, all while waiting for the next loss or faux pas to jump all over. It’s very predictable. We all know who we can expect to hear from when given a chance. 

[Nuncha]

[SoCal Deek]

24 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Yep, Chop Robinson got his weight ahead of himself and fell down near Dawkins. That is NOT a penalty on the Bills. If you call it a penalty, you should face scrutiny and be demoted to high school games if it continues. If you don’t SEE a penalty, you don’t throw a flag. 

I agree with Augie. Pass rushing is a game of leverage. Just because the rusher goes down does NOT mean he was held. It usually means that he simply lost leverage on his bend/lean. The NFL really needs to clean that up! 

[Pete]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If we'd have lost Prater would have deserved a big chunk of blame. Imagine that is a playoff game. Your kicker has a 52 yarder to win you the game. He HAS to make that kick. We all KNOW that the Chiefs kicker makes it in that scenario. 

 

Because people can rag on the 4th and 17 moment it has barely had a mention. But Prater nearly cost us. 

 

You have to try that kick. It is 52 yards. And the kicker HAS to make it. 

 

People on this forum will always find a way to blame coaches not players but that was 100% on Prater.

Every time an opposing kicker need to make a kick under pressure- they make it.  It don’t matter if it’s 50+ yards and raining hard- they hit it.  Now Prater misses it 

[Max Fischer]

12 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

 

1D - McD - While I'm not going to excuse the time outs on defense, I do understand why he called them.  The players clearly looked confused out there and McD needed to save them.  Now, why were they confused is a bigger issue.  

 

My hypothesis: Due to injuries, the Bills might have had many different combinations of players who have not worked together -- perhaps not even in practice.  One consequence of so many defensive injuries is communication and understanding their individual roles when different combinations are on the field.  This might not be the cause of the timeouts but it could have been a factor.  

 

11 hours ago, 1billsnut said:

“How do we dominate and it comes down to a hailmary?”

 

We basically won in every phase of the game……except coaching. 
 

Too many bonehead decisions. 🤷‍♂️

 

Jeez. Coaching is there reason the Bills won.  The Chiefs are much more talented up and down the roster and it was the coaching schemes that put in Bills in position to be a play or two from a blowout win.  

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Max Fischer

[Shortchaz]

Was glad they brought some pressure on the second Hail Mary, caused a short pass. 

[Joe Cz]

NFL kickers make about 75% from that distance, so I have no issue with McD's decision. I thought for sure he would punt and leave it entirely in the hands of his defense.

 

At the same time, that means that kicking Prater to the curb on the basis of this miss would be a gross overreaction. The sample size is too small to know. It's not like the kick didn't have the distance.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/17/upshot/nfl-field-goal-kickers-records.html?unlocked_article_code=1.yU8.3YEk.Ltwvfyr8_bLw&smid=url-share

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

 

This is a continuing source of great stress for all of us AND OBD. While Cook is outstanding and finally, finally took a designed hitch PASS for a critical first down and the TEs can get both open and catch- MORE via trade is clearly needed! 

 

Speak for yourself.  I'm not stressing because the Bills don't have a big name #1 WR.   I'm not sure that OBD is either, especially if they believe that Palmer can come back soon.   If the Bills make a trade for a WR, it will be for a modest WR about like Palmer. 

 

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

How do these terrible things keep happening to the Bills. Barely on the field, Hoecht is the latest Miller… total bust!

 

Look around the league.  Injuries to key personnel happen all the time, not to just the Bills.   Last year, the Lions great team in September was derailed early, starting with losing Aiden Hutchinson.  Last year, Jayden Daniels took the Commanders to the NFC Championship game as a rookie.   This year, in his first game back from a hamstring injury, Daniels dislocated his elbow.

 

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

THAT was vintage brain dead McClapper! It is a failure to understand time left and distance, exactly as you have described it. He needs a guy beside him with a cattle prod to give him a shot whenever he’s about to make an idiotic move- like that. 

 

The decision to kick the FG was the right one.  The execution wasn't there, but that's on the players not the HC.

 

2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Finally… 4th & 17s should never be a coin toss (50-50) achievement with the opposing team. Seems like there are waaaaaay too many of these long 3rd and/ 4th and easy completions! All on McD and the D.

 

Execution again.  Several times during the game, McDermott called TOs to help get the defense settled because of all the new defenders in the secondary, and the Chiefs had fewer opportunities for mismatches.   Specifically for the 4th and 17, Spagnola seems to have faked out Bosa just enough to make him hesitate for an extra second so Mahomes could throw.

 

2 hours ago, y2zipper said:

 

Exactly this. McDermott coached that last drive to both win the game and managed the clock perfectly. If I were in charge of the Bills, I'd cut him and look for another kicker for missing that.

 

I wouldn't cut Prater until/unless I had somebody better ready to sign or Bass was ready to come back.   I believe that Prater had a minor calf problem prior to the game.

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by SoTier

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

12 hours ago, Avisan said:

We gotta stop defining games we win by TD+ as "barely won" on this board.  Hail Marys have a very low success rate, and surviving two of them is going to happen 95+% of the time.  Other teams are often going to have chances to not just roll over and die, that's just how the league is.

Not to mention - vastly different hail mary defense and it worked really well.  

[extrahammer]

This game felt like the Bills had been holding back a lot of the playbook in games prior, which makes me happy. Earlier on this season felt like they were holding back a lot more of the playbook than in past seasons. Not only that but the fever pitch before the game was insane, national media writing off the Bills for having a few bad games, and usually when the entire national sports media piles on against the Bills: Allen Iverson's favorite quarterback shows up. 

 

After the first touchdown, it felt like the Bills were flirting with a blowout on the Chiefs, and again later when it was 28-13. I really wanted to see that but I think it was obvious the Bills played insanely better pretty much the entire game, and the stats prove that. Not only that, but it was nice to see the defense play with a meanness we haven't seen in a while. AJ's hit on Mahomes, Mahomes barely having any time in the pocket, Bishop's hit on Kelce, Reggie's blocks on #32 from the Chiefs. Loved every bit of it. 

[Allen2Moulds]

12 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

As always great write up, you're probably my favorite post game summary poster. 

 

The good

 

1. The secondary looks like it could develop into a strength as the season wears on. That is a really exciting development and could turn the tide on the the direction of this season. 

2. McD is calling the bulk of these plays if not all of them. I'm fine with that. We need to be in our best calls more than ever. 

3. The defensive line looked great, Bosa was on fire. The Hoecht loss is devastating. He looked like a real player. 

4. Cook is just so good and the offensive line was dominating

5. Kincaid is a serious difference maker and almost required for us to be effective offensively 

6. Allen had a great game and stayed in the pocket more, offensive line kept him super clean most the day. 

7. Love the pressure on the hail mary. We have seen a few of those transpire now, it would have been so disappointing to see us drop everybody and give a clean throw. 

 

The bad

 

1. Again nothing downfield with our WR's and very limited work outside of screens. I don't think we can climb to the top of the mountain with this type of WR output.

2. Hoecht injury seemed impactful almost right away. Bosa was insane, but he's also disappeared at times. As have others. Can we get consistency in line play and grow as the season wears on?

3. A couple calls bothered me. The 3rd and 10 screen to Shakir. I get that we aren't a long yardage offense at this point, but we can't throw in the white flag on 3rd and 10. This sort of goes back to point #1 about downfield WR production. It is required as an offense and we will need it. 

4. Kicking the FG late. You have 7 point lead, a punt pins them inside the 20 and likely drains 3-4 more seconds off. It would have forced them to go 80+ yards with no timeouts and under 25 seconds. Sign me up for that. The ONLY chance they had was that missed FG and we walked into that. Didn't bite us today, but I really disagree with that move. 

 

The final

 

It was a huge win for us for playoff seeding and AFC east seeding. Pure domination vs one of the better teams in the AFC. It was a similar script to how we lost the last couple weeks but this time we dished out the punishment. The progression of guys like Bishop and Max can't be understated and could really transform this defense. As you said, it's 1-0, and we have a long way to go, but great win and exciting to see some development with key players. 

This is also well put, and I agree with everything except one thing.  I feel going for the FG was the right decision for a couple of reasons.  It's alot easier to second guess it after the fact because he missed it by a few inches.  If it goes in, I don't think any of us would question it today.  There's also no guarantee that the kick doesn't end up in the endzone, as a touchback.  It's worth going for the kill vs. the extra 20 yds.  Just my opinion, and it's not a strong disagree. Your points for wanting a punt are valid, but I prefer the more aggressive approach.

[BVBILLS]

That game had some amazing execution by JA and accuracy. It was nice to see him throwing past 10 years with laser accuracy. lol

 

Also, the way Cook is running is amazing. He is very patient and shifty, just super impressive to watch. Not to brag, but I predicted he would have a big game. 👍

 

[appoo]

 

elite game planning 

[corta765]

Like your thoughts and here our mine with some responses to you:

 

1. The defense- I have said I think when fully healthy the defense especially the defensive line can and should be a force that can alter games. Unfortunately we won't ever see the max potential as with Oliver out and a lot of other guys in and out I just do not see it coming together in the best form. BUT yesterday was proof that with most of their pieces in and the secondary having some confidence/Max finally there they can be decent & the hopes the d-line is a force can be real. I do not need perfection from the defense, next year could be reallllyyy interesting on that side with health and growth from the young guys. BUT if the defense can stay in this form then it makes me far more optimistic come January that the team can win anywhere at anytime.

 

2. The Kids- Hariston, Walker, & Bishop all have had their moments and their growth is saving the team given the constant injuries we keep getting. Bishop is still just year 2 and his consistency is growing as his talent is certainly present. Having Poyer next to him has helped immensely where you can see his calmness and his best play come out. Walker is probably the biggest gem of them, but Max's speed altered that game and can help the secondary remold into being something decent. 

 

3. Defensive Line- Such a bummer about Hoecht and Oliver as you saw how good this group can be. Even with them out Larry has been nice to have rotating in, Walker has been amazing as a rookie, & Bosa is doing what you hoped Von could've kept doing. They are going to need to bring in some vet to help keep things going and the rotation solid. But maybe just maybe you get Oliver back for this crew come playoff time and if that happens along with the line playing at a high level that will be game altering.

 

4. Listen they have to prove it come January that they can cross the river finally, I know it, they know it, you know it....

WITH that said it was a really good win by the team as a whole and the coaches deserve credit. Buffalo needed this win to maintain pace with the Pats until we face them again. Beating KC now puts them in a dicey spot divisionally where they have a 1-1 division record 2-3 conference record and they are now two games back of Denver & one game back of LA. I absolutely believe KC can still win the division as they are not to be doubted, but they now have enough scrapes & cuts record wise that the 1 seed is most likely done given the tiebreaking circumstances & winning the division will be a true challenge which should force them at least on the road for 1-2 games if not the whole postseason. Again until the playoffs come and the score show KC lost at 0:00 they are a cockroach that exist the way NE did. But the more attrition and obstacles, the better chance Buffalo has for a better path come January. Conversely the Bills now are 4-1 in conference and 2-1 in division which helps with tiebreakers. Take care of your business as we go, beat NE when the time comes, and see where the chips fall come January. This has been a messy messy year without one truly great team so the 1 seed is absolutely there, but you gotta hold serve and this game helped big time with that.

 

5. Josh - He's back. He was never really gone either, but the poised decisive assassin we love was in the house yesterday. He was Buffalo's best player and it was a needed reminder that come the biggest and brightest stage you have the guy that can close.

 

6. Offense- That was the offense in its best form and Brady finally felt ahead of KC for the majority of the game play call wise. I still hated not running for it on fourth and 2 when we had been having success all day, but overall a very strong day. My biggest gripe is keep going to your TEs and don't stop. Run 13 personnel and 12 personnel as much as you can. They TEs are the strongest part of the passing catching group at this point and the best way to break defenses in the air. Once Palmer is back it should help the outside more although everyone still knows how much the offenses ceiling rises with just one more guy. But even if they add Waddle tomorrow, I am utilizing those TEs all the time and bludgeoning teams with them.

 

7. Next week is a win and advance week. Get on Miami quick and break their spirit so they do not think they have a shot. They are losing guys as they start rebuilding so that will weaken them, but do not give them an ounce of hope. The following three games after will all be good to sizable tests as the Bills go TB, at HOU TNF, & then at PIT. You need to be 2-1 through that stretch as all of those teams present different issues. TB due to injuries is not the monster they could have been a month ago, but they are still a reallly really good team. HOU has perhaps the best defense in football even if their offense is very hit or miss and PIT is PIT which means they can be good great awful or average, but more likely then not come the 4th quarter they will be around. You got the largest hurdle cleared this week, make sure you are ready for the upcoming ones and hopefully we get a trade or two to give some reinforcements to the guys.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

My hypothesis: Due to injuries, the Bills might have had many different combinations of players who have not worked together -- perhaps not even in practice.  One consequence of so many defensive injuries is communication and understanding their individual roles when different combinations are on the field.  This might not be the cause of the timeouts but it could have been a factor.  

 

 

Jeez. Coaching is there reason the Bills won.  The Chiefs are much more talented up and down the roster and it was the coaching schemes that put in Bills in position to be a play or two from a blowout win.  

 

 

The Day After just wouldn’t be complete if we didn’t do some coach bashing, win or lose. 

 

Look, nobody is perfect, so why not just enjoy a big win for a few hours. There are some legit issues to fix, but some people are just looking for an excuse to pile on, regardless of the outcome. 

[hondo in seattle]

The Chiefs were back, the pundits said.  Offense clicking.  Defense clicking.  Best coaching trio (HC, DC, OC) in the league.  Elite offensive roster, strong defense.

 

Meanwhile, our Bills?  Paper tigers.  Only beat garbage teams.  Even lost to a garbage team.  Pats were the kings of the AFCE now.  We were has-beens.  And our already-suspect defense was held together with duct tape.

 

That was the narrative.

 

Then we went out and beat the Chiefs.

 

Maybe McD, Babich, and Brady deserve some credit.  They just beat the best coaching staff in football with a lesser roster.

[Logic]

Thanks as always for your thoughts. I put some of mine in the post-game thread that echoed much of what you said.

The main thing I feel after this game is ENCOURAGED. My hope for the remainder of the season and even the postseason has been re-ignited.

After the first half of the season, I was feeling kind of deflated. We struggled to beat some bad teams. We lost two straight games to what I view as inferior opponents. Out defense looked completely toothless. Our quarterback looked stifled and frustrated.

All of that changed yesterday. Some if it started in the Panthers game, but yesterday looked like the real turning point.

Suddenly, Josh was locked in. "Slotted", as he puts it. Set a franchise record for completion percentage and played his best game of the year. Suddenly, the defense was a shutdown unit, harassing the other team's All-Pro QB (and holding him to his lowest completion percentage ever), blanketing receivers, laying bone crunching hits. 

The combination of night-and-day difference in our defensive performance, the return of "MVP Josh", and the exemplary performances of multiple youngsters potentially changing the short and long term outlooks on defense in a major way....all of it adds up to a lot of big reasons to feel encouraged going into the second half of the season.

The AFC East crown is still there for the taking. The AFC one seed is still there for the taking. The Lombardi is still there for the taking. BIG win yesterday, for BIG reasons.

Go Bills!

[Ralonzo]

16 hours ago, 1billsnut said:

“How do we dominate and it comes down to a hailmary?”

 

We basically won in every phase of the game……except coaching. 
 

Too many bonehead decisions. 🤷‍♂️

 

More specifically the game-day head coaching game management decisions, which to be fair McDermott has gotten better at but yesterday's effort was poor.

 

Game Management involves making decisions which help maximize your team's chance of winning. For instance the failed 4th down at midfield was one where the risk far outweighed the reward even if it had succeeded. It seemed to be a nod toward the trend of "go for it YEAH i got cojones!!!@" lately in the league; that pendulum may have overswung.

 

The timeout on 4th and 17 speaks to "I don't trust my game week coaching without micromanaging this down." This wasn't an obvious fustercluck like those 1st half TO's were. The play that was aborted by the timeout, Mahomes was under instant pressure because his line was gassed and discombobulated and he had to chuck n' duck, that play was DOA. But thanks to the timeout they get into a much better play, the Bills inexplicably put on a eunuch pass rush on the down and they convert.

 

The FG attempt as well, a punt even through the end zone leaves them at best < :20 and a 20-ball needing a TD. That's a whole lot less threatening than the Chiefs 42. There has to be charts, stats, analytics showing this stuff. You don't need to be a legendary HOF gameday coach but jeez, just be average or get someone who understands this stuff into your headset.

Edited 2 hours ago by Ralonzo

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

More specifically the game-day head coaching game management decisions, which to be fair McDermott has gotten better at but yesterday's effort was poor.

 

Game Management involves making decisions which help maximize your team's chance of winning. For instance the failed 4th down at midfield was one where the risk far outweighed the reward even if it had succeeded. It seemed to be a nod toward the trend of "go for it YEAH i got cojones!!!@" lately in the league; that pendulum may have overswung.

 

The timeout on 4th and 17 speaks to "I don't trust my game week coaching without micromanaging this down." This wasn't an obvious fustercluck like those 1st half TO's were. The play that was aborted by the timeout, Mahomes was under instant pressure because his line was gassed and discombobulated and he had to chuck n' duck, that play was DOA. But thanks to the timeout they get into a much better play, the Bills inexplicably put on a eunuch pass rush on the down and they convert.

 

The FG attempt as well, a punt even through the end zone leaves them at best < :20 and a 20-ball needing a TD. That's a whole lot less threatening than the Chiefs 42. There has to be charts, stats, analytics showing this stuff. You don't need to be a legendary HOF gameday coach but jeez, just be average or get someone who understands this stuff into your headset.

 

I sort of agree on the 4th and 17 not even about the Chiefs being a bit gassed (though that's true) but more about them having time to dial something creative up. Although the eventual call was good enough the Bills didn't execute when they had the chance. But I disagree on the 4th down early and the FG at the end. I think both were absolutely the right calls.

Edited 1 hour ago by GunnerBill

[Ralonzo]

Ok. But the eye-test matched the stat-test which says the Bills were easily the better team, but neither lined up with the scoreboard which said the Bills were only just the better team (1-score game). My perception is that for once it wasn't the refs throwing the lifeline to the Chiefs to keep them in it (well, a little bit early) as much as the Bills game management, which is on the head coach. On the whole most of the infamous defensive timeouts worked out, but I simply LOATHE giving an opponent's offense time to settle themselves and come up with their best play - and when it's the Chiefs it's egregious. Time pressure leads to poorer decisions, and Reid doesn't need any unnecessary advantages.